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Re: [Meditation Society of America] The ultimate objective of meditation

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  • Sandeep
    *Hi Gaurav,* ... *A sense of an objective to be achieved, whether ultimate or intermediate requires a sense of an entity for whom that objective has a
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 19 8:24 PM
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      Hi Gaurav,



      waruag wrote:

      I know its a very stupid & basic question to ask " WHAT IS THE ULTIMATE
      OBJECTIVE OF MEDITATION?"
      But I hope all the seniors would forgive me for asking it as I am just
      a beginner , on this mystic path.





      A sense of an objective to be achieved, whether ultimate or intermediate requires a sense of an entity for whom that objective has a relevance,
      a significance, isn't it?

      Rather than the objective,(for that being a mere creation of what is known and thus keeps changing with time) ....

      ....who or what is that sense of an entity?



      The activity, whether it is Pranayam, Yoga, zazen, Self enquiry, Sufi twirling, Vipassana, watching breath/thoughts/a passing beautiful man/woman....

      ....  or whatever is being assigned the term "meditation"........

      ......if it is occurring.........it is a happening.

      Who is it, that is investing in the natural happening, and believing that it is a means to an objective?



      Who or what is "Gaurav"?






      i have millions of questions on meditation, but would seek some basic
      replies before moving to more complicated questions.






      The resolution of the question who or what is "Gaurav"........
      .......is the immediate and automatic resolution of all those million questions, both the basic ones and the complicated ones.

      The term being used is "resolution" not  answer.




      Another thing I wish to know here in the beginning is " It is said that
      you need a learnt Master , his guidance & blessings to meditate " What
      is the truthfulness of the statement?






      Zazen is a technique.
      Pranayam is a technique.
      Self Enquiry is a technique.

      To learn a technique, a guide is generally useful.
      Bob's site is all encompassing repository of these techniques.

      However walking the path is the walk of aloneness.

      The walk of a Khanabadosh.




      Kindly clear my doubts.

      Thanks
      Gaurav
      New Delhi - India

    • waruag
      Dear Mr. Ramon / Suman & Sandeep. Thanks to all for putting me in a better position to understand. With best Regards--- In
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 20 12:38 AM
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        Dear Mr. Ramon / Suman & Sandeep.
        Thanks to all for putting me in a better position to understand.
        With best Regards--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
        Sandeep <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
        >
        > *Hi Gaurav,*
        >
        >
        >
        > waruag wrote:
        > >
        > > I know its a very stupid & basic question to ask " WHAT IS THE
        ULTIMATE
        > > OBJECTIVE OF MEDITATION?"
        > > But I hope all the seniors would forgive me for asking it as I am
        just
        > > a beginner , on this mystic path.
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > *A sense of an objective to be achieved, whether ultimate or
        > intermediate requires a sense of an entity for whom that objective
        has a
        > relevance,
        > a significance, isn't it?
        >
        > Rather than the objective,(for that being a mere creation of what
        is
        > known and thus keeps changing with time) ....
        >
        > ....who or what is that sense of an entity?
        >
        > *
        >
        > *The activity, whether it is Pranayam, Yoga, zazen, Self enquiry,
        Sufi
        > twirling, Vipassana, watching breath/thoughts/a passing beautiful
        > man/woman....
        >
        > .... or whatever is being assigned the term "meditation"........
        >
        > ......if it is occurring.........it is a happening.
        >
        > Who is it, that is investing in the natural happening, and
        believing
        > that it is a means to an objective?*
        > *
        >
        > Who or what is "Gaurav"?*
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > >
        > > i have millions of questions on meditation, but would seek some
        basic
        > > replies before moving to more complicated questions.
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > *The resolution of the question who or what is "Gaurav"........
        > .......is the immediate and automatic resolution of all those
        million
        > questions, both the basic ones and the complicated ones.
        >
        > **The term being used is "resolution" not answer.
        > *
        >
        >
        > >
        > > Another thing I wish to know here in the beginning is " It is
        said that
        > > you need a learnt Master , his guidance & blessings to meditate "
        What
        > > is the truthfulness of the statement?
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > *Zazen is a technique.
        > Pranayam is a technique.
        > Self Enquiry is a technique.
        >
        > To learn a technique, a guide is generally useful.
        > Bob's site is all encompassing repository of these techniques.
        >
        > However walking the path is the walk of aloneness.*
        > *The walk of a Khanabadosh.*
        >
        >
        >
        > >
        > > Kindly clear my doubts.
        > >
        > > Thanks
        > > Gaurav
        > > New Delhi - India
        > >
        > >
        >
      • AKBAR HIRANI
        What techniques can you apply to control thoughts and mind ? I do meditation but many times thoughts are uncontrollable . Does it mean meditation has failed to
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 20 1:55 PM
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          What techniques can you apply to control thoughts and mind ? I do meditation but many times thoughts are uncontrollable . Does it mean meditation has failed to control thoughts ?
           
          Right, you do feel anchored by meditation but thoughts are there ready to creep in.
           
          How does anyone explain that ?


          suman sk <sumansk@...> wrote:
          When you these questions ..you are on the right path..
          I think really there is no ultimate purpose in meditation. Do not sit in meditation with a purpose bcos then you are tied to that objective..medition is just opposite of it.
          You do meditation bcos you feel a need to do it which out of so many millions of peaple you only feel it....and that gives you a satisfaction and in the meantime with practice over time you start to develop a peace in your heart...and you become composed and calm..Thoughts donot flutter your mind and you start to feel a control over your mind and its thoughts.As you know thoughts are the most powerful of human energies so once you have control over it, you have control over many things yet to come..
          So forget a objective and start and sit peacefully full dissolved in the unknown....
           
          Good Luck with your practice...
          OM

          Ramon Leonato <raman@...> wrote:



          On 6/19/07 11:33 AM, "waruag" <waruag@yahoo. co.in> wrote:


           
           

          I know its a very stupid & basic question to ask " WHAT IS THE ULTIMATE
          OBJECTIVE OF MEDITATION?"
          But I hope all the seniors would forgive me for asking it as I am just
          a beginner , on this mystic path.

          i have millions of questions on meditation, but would seek some basic
          replies before moving to more complicated questions.

          Another thing I wish to know here in the beginning is " It is said that
          you need a learnt Master , his guidance & blessings to meditate " What
          is the truthfulness of the statement?

          I would suggest you that you get in touch with the teachings of Good Spiritual Teachers that have left their teachings recorded in different ways. Books, audio recordings, video recordings. And know that it is also said that when the disciple is ready the Guru appears.

          http://youtube. com/gururajanand a


          Kindly clear my doubts.

          Thanks
          Gaurav
          New Delhi - India

           





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        • suman sk
          There are many techniques, and I have tried many of them.After each of the techniques I tried I used to get tired and the feeling never used to be of calmness
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 20 2:37 PM
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            There are many techniques, and I have tried many of them.After each of the techniques I tried I used to get tired and the feeling never used to be of calmness and peacefulness.So finally I tried the Buddah technique of PRANAYAMA-which is just observe the breaths rise and fall.Just observe and DONOT try to control it as the natural tendency of the body is to control it. With little practice you will start to just observe it.
            If you can observe your breaths for say around 21 seconds you will achieve a state of THOUGHTLESSNESS.. you will even forget that you are observing your thoughts and you will enter a state of TURIYA..That is emptyness and its very difficult to explain .. one can only experience it..
             
            So just practice and try this ...It is a very powerful technique and very effective in bringing PEACE to your HEART....
             
            Some one asked Gautam BUDDHA that how do I know that I am succeeding in meditation..
            Gautam Replied it is very simple...
            IF you feel and you experience lesser anger, lust,jealousy, temptations and other vices that you what you were experiencing yesterday then you are succeeding...
            With every practice it should make you more HUMANE....
            PEACE !!

            AKBAR HIRANI <akbar_hirani@...> wrote:
            What techniques can you apply to control thoughts and mind ? I do meditation but many times thoughts are uncontrollable . Does it mean meditation has failed to control thoughts ?
             
            Right, you do feel anchored by meditation but thoughts are there ready to creep in.
             
            How does anyone explain that ?


            suman sk <sumansk@yahoo. com> wrote:
            When you these questions ..you are on the right path..
            I think really there is no ultimate purpose in meditation. Do not sit in meditation with a purpose bcos then you are tied to that objective..medition is just opposite of it.
            You do meditation bcos you feel a need to do it which out of so many millions of peaple you only feel it....and that gives you a satisfaction and in the meantime with practice over time you start to develop a peace in your heart...and you become composed and calm..Thoughts donot flutter your mind and you start to feel a control over your mind and its thoughts.As you know thoughts are the most powerful of human energies so once you have control over it, you have control over many things yet to come..
            So forget a objective and start and sit peacefully full dissolved in the unknown....
             
            Good Luck with your practice...
            OM

            Ramon Leonato <raman@...> wrote:



            On 6/19/07 11:33 AM, "waruag" <waruag@yahoo. co.in> wrote:


             
             

            I know its a very stupid & basic question to ask " WHAT IS THE ULTIMATE
            OBJECTIVE OF MEDITATION?"
            But I hope all the seniors would forgive me for asking it as I am just
            a beginner , on this mystic path.

            i have millions of questions on meditation, but would seek some basic
            replies before moving to more complicated questions.

            Another thing I wish to know here in the beginning is " It is said that
            you need a learnt Master , his guidance & blessings to meditate " What
            is the truthfulness of the statement?

            I would suggest you that you get in touch with the teachings of Good Spiritual Teachers that have left their teachings recorded in different ways. Books, audio recordings, video recordings. And know that it is also said that when the disciple is ready the Guru appears.

            http://youtube. com/gururajanand a


            Kindly clear my doubts.

            Thanks
            Gaurav
            New Delhi - India

             





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          • Sandeep
            ... *The urge to control thoughts, is it anything else other than another thought? Can thought ever erase thought? The noting of no-thought:..........aka OK
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 20 11:33 PM
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              AKBAR HIRANI wrote:
              What techniques can you apply to control thoughts and mind ?


              The urge to control thoughts, is it anything else other than another thought?

              Can thought ever erase thought?

              The noting of "no-thought:..........aka "OK now there are no thoughts"........ is another thought, isn't it?




              I do meditation but many times thoughts are uncontrollable .



              Many times?

              Has there ever been anything like a  "controlled thought"?

              Is there a thinker of a thought, controlling, directing, shaping thought?

              Or is there a rising/dissipating of thoughts.......... inferring a "separated-thinker" thereof?




              Does it mean meditation has failed to control thoughts ?


              Meditativeness is a state of existing (to use some conceptual pithy words)...........where the arising of thoughts , it's perpetuation in time and  it's dissipating...... after a duration...........that entire hoopla is no longer an issue.


              The hoopla of thoughts observed just like passing clouds in the blue yonder are noted.

              There may be the engagement with that hoopla, but there is no longer any stake with the hoopla.



               



               
              Right, you do feel anchored by meditation but thoughts are there ready to creep in.





              The feeling of  being anchored by meditation is another thought...
              ... maybe accompanied by some pleasant sensations in the body.


               


               
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