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Beginning meditation

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  • zenlauren
    Hello to those who were asking about meditation. I haven t posted on here before, or at least not for a long time. Meditation is difficult because it is so
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 20, 2007
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      Hello to those who were asking about meditation. I haven't posted on
      here before, or at least not for a long time.

      Meditation is difficult because it is so simple it seems like we
      must be doing something wrong.

      There are many different styles of meditation and many people only
      become aware of one form and then think they are doing it "wrong".

      I teach meditation and as I teach it I separate meditation into two
      catagories. Focus meditation and observation meditation. In focus
      meditation the goal is to work on your "focus muscle". To learn to
      control what is often called the monkey mind. You may focus on a
      mantra, on your breath, on your heartbeat, on a simple image-or
      single point. Observation meditation includes stepping outside your
      normal process of mental awareness and act as a neutral, non-
      judgmental observer. Mindfulness meditation is an excellent example
      of this. You observe your thoughts without getting caught up in
      them. You notice if your thoughts cause any particular feeling and
      you simple note that feeling. If you can't let go of a thought, you
      notice that you can't let go. No judging, no stress, simply
      observing. I like to think of it as watching a stream and letting
      the thoughts and experiences simply float by.

      Meditation begins as a process of noticing the mind wandering and
      gently returning to your focus. The monkey mind will wander, and
      you will simply return to your focus again and again without
      judgement or frustration. This is the nature of learning to
      meditate.

      In terms of situations like having visions or other mental objects
      arising, simply observe that it happened and return to the
      meditation you have chosen to practice. If you are doing
      mindfulness, then you would notice your mental object, and let it go
      without trying to interpret it or hold onto it. If you are trying
      to do focus meditation, you notice your mind is looking for
      entertainment and you gently return your mind to it's focus. When
      your mind wanders again, you return your focus.

      I'm happy to answer questions, and I have some information on my
      website www.harado.com

      I'll try to check back soon in case anyone has a question.
    • Marc Moss
      This meditation is accurate, but facilitates only the left hemisphere of the brain. The result of meditation is to remove the manifest forms of the belief that
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 20, 2007
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        This meditation is accurate, but facilitates only the left hemisphere of the brain. The result of meditation is to remove the manifest forms of the belief that there is a separation in subject and object; and this is so because one has become aware that they are incorrect.
         
        Checking out the "monkey mind' is seeing how the thoughts are overwhelmingly undisciplined. We believe that we are this, and that thing is that, so our left brain distinquishes what something is upon analysis, and whatever conclusion we come to, our right hemisphere then makes it a reality. We no longer investigate something and it's the way it is until our left brain encounters a situation that proves it to be wrong. Science asserted that penecillin was the "cure" for many things...and today it doesn't seem to work like it once did.
         
        The Right hemisphere is responsible for the limbic system, or the sympathetic system. The solar plexus is the center of this system. It radiates energy, and attracts things to it. Mind is subtle matter, and once this matter is of a certain energy type, it will bring about precisely what's been put into it. See every thing you've ever done very well, without doubt in yourself. You consistently bring into being and attract to you all the things that fufill what you seek! Jesus said, "therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." Examine:
         
        I tell you - Jesus stands behind this statement. He is telling us from his experience and knowledge (I will not assert his divinity here, but as a sage of remarkable spiritual accomplishments; I think more people can then be receptive to this analysis)
         
        whatever - any or any one of a number of things whether specifically known or not; pretty broad! not just spiritual, but physical accomplishments and procurements as well
         
        you ask for - To express a desire for; you have to ask your spirit guide, God, Jesus, Buddhas, enlightened beings...or even just yourself! "May I be free from illness"..."may I replace my old beat up car"
         
        in prayer - undistractedly focused on the object to whom or what you pray. Meditation, concentration.
         
        believe - to have a conviction that (a person or thing) is, has been, or will be engaged in a given action or involved in a given situation. In other words, you should be able to visualize it crystal clear!! The stronger the image in the left hemisphere, the more power in the right hemisphere.
         
        that you have received it - past tense; you should now send it to the right hemisphere and 'feel' it.
         
        and it will be yours - it will be made manifest, or your karma now will ripen to experience the perceptions of this appearance in your own life; this is not just a statement of one controversial spiritual being, but this was taught by the Buddha in tantra; Kabbalah, and other practices.
         
        The denial that even thought can control or inspire the physical world is simply due to the lack of witnessing for oneself. If it can't be analyzed by the left brain, it can't be accepted by the whole psych-physical being.
         
        Managing the wandering mind will be of value to the visualization process. Left by itself to simply focus on "nothing", the mind will not progress with new material, but remain steadfast in its old material. We should be trying to change the program. Don't get stuck on the preliminaries; there is a deeper universe 'enfolded' within the 'unfolded' world we think we see.
         
        Marc
         


         
         
         
         
         
        As long as space remains, as long as living beings remain, until then - may I too remain to dispel the sufferings of the world. - Master Shantideva
         
         
         


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      • Citizens Active
        Here s a great article for beginners, I think it will a big in setting you in the right direction. ZJust like everything else IMHO, practice is key. Realize
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 20, 2007
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          Here's a great article for beginners, I think it will a big in setting you in the right direction.  ZJust like everything else IMHO, practice is key.  Realize that you'll lose focus but don't let it get you frustrated and before you know it you will be able to almost instantly get into a meditative state.
           
          heres the link for the article. 
           
          Namaste!
           
           


          Marc Moss <jellybean0729@...> wrote:

          This meditation is accurate, but facilitates only the left hemisphere of the brain. The result of meditation is to remove the manifest forms of the belief that there is a separation in subject and object; and this is so because one has become aware that they are incorrect.
           
          Checking out the "monkey mind' is seeing how the thoughts are overwhelmingly undisciplined. We believe that we are this, and that thing is that, so our left brain distinquishes what something is upon analysis, and whatever conclusion we come to, our right hemisphere then makes it a reality. We no longer investigate something and it's the way it is until our left brain encounters a situation that proves it to be wrong. Science asserted that penecillin was the "cure" for many things...and today it doesn't seem to work like it once did.
           
          The Right hemisphere is responsible for the limbic system, or the sympathetic system. The solar plexus is the center of this system. It radiates energy, and attracts things to it. Mind is subtle matter, and once this matter is of a certain energy type, it will bring about precisely what's been put into it. See every thing you've ever done very well, without doubt in yourself. You consistently bring into being and attract to you all the things that fufill what you seek! Jesus said, "therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." Examine:
           
          I tell you - Jesus stands behind this statement. He is telling us from his experience and knowledge (I will not assert his divinity here, but as a sage of remarkable spiritual accomplishments; I think more people can then be receptive to this analysis)
           
          whatever - any or any one of a number of things whether specifically known or not; pretty broad! not just spiritual, but physical accomplishments and procurements as well
           
          you ask for - To express a desire for; you have to ask your spirit guide, God, Jesus, Buddhas, enlightened beings...or even just yourself! "May I be free from illness"..." may I replace my old beat up car"
           
          in prayer - undistractedly focused on the object to whom or what you pray. Meditation, concentration.
           
          believe - to have a conviction that (a person or thing) is, has been, or will be engaged in a given action or involved in a given situation. In other words, you should be able to visualize it crystal clear!! The stronger the image in the left hemisphere, the more power in the right hemisphere.
           
          that you have received it - past tense; you should now send it to the right hemisphere and 'feel' it.
           
          and it will be yours - it will be made manifest, or your karma now will ripen to experience the perceptions of this appearance in your own life; this is not just a statement of one controversial spiritual being, but this was taught by the Buddha in tantra; Kabbalah, and other practices.
           
          The denial that even thought can control or inspire the physical world is simply due to the lack of witnessing for oneself. If it can't be analyzed by the left brain, it can't be accepted by the whole psych-physical being.
           
          Managing the wandering mind will be of value to the visualization process. Left by itself to simply focus on "nothing", the mind will not progress with new material, but remain steadfast in its old material. We should be trying to change the program. Don't get stuck on the preliminaries; there is a deeper universe 'enfolded' within the 'unfolded' world we think we see.
           
          Marc
           


           
           
           
           
           
          As long as space remains, as long as living beings remain, until then - may I too remain to dispel the sufferings of the world. - Master Shantideva
           
           
           

          It's here! Your new message!
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        • bigrufedc
          Thank you all for helping me out on this subject. I will try what works best for me at this stage. Rufin -- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 20, 2007
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            Thank you all for helping me out on this subject. I will try what
            works best for me at this stage.

            Rufin



            -- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Citizens Active
            <citizensactive@...> wrote:
            >
            > Here's a great article for beginners, I think it will a big in
            setting you in the right direction. ZJust like everything else IMHO,
            practice is key. Realize that you'll lose focus but don't let it get
            you frustrated and before you know it you will be able to almost
            instantly get into a meditative state.
            >
            > heres the link for the article.
            > http://www.learnteachcreate.com/22.html
            >
            > Namaste!
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Marc Moss <jellybean0729@...> wrote:
            >
            > This meditation is accurate, but facilitates only the left
            hemisphere of the brain. The result of meditation is to remove the
            manifest forms of the belief that there is a separation in subject
            and object; and this is so because one has become aware that they are
            incorrect.
            >
            > Checking out the "monkey mind' is seeing how the thoughts are
            overwhelmingly undisciplined. We believe that we are this, and that
            thing is that, so our left brain distinquishes what something is upon
            analysis, and whatever conclusion we come to, our right hemisphere
            then makes it a reality. We no longer investigate something and it's
            the way it is until our left brain encounters a situation that proves
            it to be wrong. Science asserted that penecillin was the "cure" for
            many things...and today it doesn't seem to work like it once did.
            >
            > The Right hemisphere is responsible for the limbic system, or the
            sympathetic system. The solar plexus is the center of this system. It
            radiates energy, and attracts things to it. Mind is subtle matter,
            and once this matter is of a certain energy type, it will bring about
            precisely what's been put into it. See every thing you've ever done
            very well, without doubt in yourself. You consistently bring into
            being and attract to you all the things that fufill what you seek!
            Jesus said, "therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer,
            believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." Examine:
            >
            > I tell you - Jesus stands behind this statement. He is telling us
            from his experience and knowledge (I will not assert his divinity
            here, but as a sage of remarkable spiritual accomplishments; I think
            more people can then be receptive to this analysis)
            >
            > whatever - any or any one of a number of things whether
            specifically known or not; pretty broad! not just spiritual, but
            physical accomplishments and procurements as well
            >
            > you ask for - To express a desire for; you have to ask your
            spirit guide, God, Jesus, Buddhas, enlightened beings...or even just
            yourself! "May I be free from illness"..."may I replace my old beat
            up car"
            >
            > in prayer - undistractedly focused on the object to whom or what
            you pray. Meditation, concentration.
            >
            > believe - to have a conviction that (a person or thing) is, has
            been, or will be engaged in a given action or involved in a given
            situation. In other words, you should be able to visualize it crystal
            clear!! The stronger the image in the left hemisphere, the more power
            in the right hemisphere.
            >
            > that you have received it - past tense; you should now send it to
            the right hemisphere and 'feel' it.
            >
            > and it will be yours - it will be made manifest, or your karma
            now will ripen to experience the perceptions of this appearance in
            your own life; this is not just a statement of one controversial
            spiritual being, but this was taught by the Buddha in tantra;
            Kabbalah, and other practices.
            >
            > The denial that even thought can control or inspire the physical
            world is simply due to the lack of witnessing for oneself. If it
            can't be analyzed by the left brain, it can't be accepted by the
            whole psych-physical being.
            >
            > Managing the wandering mind will be of value to the visualization
            process. Left by itself to simply focus on "nothing", the mind will
            not progress with new material, but remain steadfast in its old
            material. We should be trying to change the program. Don't get stuck
            on the preliminaries; there is a deeper universe 'enfolded' within
            the 'unfolded' world we think we see.
            >
            > Marc
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > As long as space remains, as long as living beings remain, until
            then - may I too remain to dispel the sufferings of the world. -
            Master Shantideva
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > It's here! Your new message!
            > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Be a PS3 game guru.
            > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at
            Yahoo! Games.
            >
          • Marc Moss
            That s all you can do!!! bigrufedc wrote: Thank you all for helping me out on this subject. I will try what works best for me
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 20, 2007
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              That's all you can do!!!

              bigrufedc <rTshinanga@...> wrote:
              Thank you all for helping me out on this subject. I will try what
              works best for me at this stage.

              Rufin

              -- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, Citizens Active
              <citizensactive@ ...> wrote:
              >
              > Here's a great article for beginners, I think it will a big in
              setting you in the right direction. ZJust like everything else IMHO,
              practice is key. Realize that you'll lose focus but don't let it get
              you frustrated and before you know it you will be able to almost
              instantly get into a meditative state.
              >
              > heres the link for the article.
              > http://www.learntea chcreate. com/22.html
              >
              > Namaste!
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Marc Moss <jellybean0729@ ...> wrote:
              >
              > This meditation is accurate, but facilitates only the left
              hemisphere of the brain. The result of meditation is to remove the
              manifest forms of the belief that there is a separation in subject
              and object; and this is so because one has become aware that they are
              incorrect.
              >
              > Checking out the "monkey mind' is seeing how the thoughts are
              overwhelmingly undisciplined. We believe that we are this, and that
              thing is that, so our left brain distinquishes what something is upon
              analysis, and whatever conclusion we come to, our right hemisphere
              then makes it a reality. We no longer investigate something and it's
              the way it is until our left brain encounters a situation that proves
              it to be wrong. Science asserted that penecillin was the "cure" for
              many things...and today it doesn't seem to work like it once did.
              >
              > The Right hemisphere is responsible for the limbic system, or the
              sympathetic system. The solar plexus is the center of this system. It
              radiates energy, and attracts things to it. Mind is subtle matter,
              and once this matter is of a certain energy type, it will bring about
              precisely what's been put into it. See every thing you've ever done
              very well, without doubt in yourself. You consistently bring into
              being and attract to you all the things that fufill what you seek!
              Jesus said, "therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer,
              believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." Examine:
              >
              > I tell you - Jesus stands behind this statement. He is telling us
              from his experience and knowledge (I will not assert his divinity
              here, but as a sage of remarkable spiritual accomplishments; I think
              more people can then be receptive to this analysis)
              >
              > whatever - any or any one of a number of things whether
              specifically known or not; pretty broad! not just spiritual, but
              physical accomplishments and procurements as well
              >
              > you ask for - To express a desire for; you have to ask your
              spirit guide, God, Jesus, Buddhas, enlightened beings...or even just
              yourself! "May I be free from illness"..." may I replace my old beat
              up car"
              >
              > in prayer - undistractedly focused on the object to whom or what
              you pray. Meditation, concentration.
              >
              > believe - to have a conviction that (a person or thing) is, has
              been, or will be engaged in a given action or involved in a given
              situation. In other words, you should be able to visualize it crystal
              clear!! The stronger the image in the left hemisphere, the more power
              in the right hemisphere.
              >
              > that you have received it - past tense; you should now send it to
              the right hemisphere and 'feel' it.
              >
              > and it will be yours - it will be made manifest, or your karma
              now will ripen to experience the perceptions of this appearance in
              your own life; this is not just a statement of one controversial
              spiritual being, but this was taught by the Buddha in tantra;
              Kabbalah, and other practices.
              >
              > The denial that even thought can control or inspire the physical
              world is simply due to the lack of witnessing for oneself. If it
              can't be analyzed by the left brain, it can't be accepted by the
              whole psych-physical being.
              >
              > Managing the wandering mind will be of value to the visualization
              process. Left by itself to simply focus on "nothing", the mind will
              not progress with new material, but remain steadfast in its old
              material. We should be trying to change the program. Don't get stuck
              on the preliminaries; there is a deeper universe 'enfolded' within
              the 'unfolded' world we think we see.
              >
              > Marc
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > As long as space remains, as long as living beings remain, until
              then - may I too remain to dispel the sufferings of the world. -
              Master Shantideva
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------ --------- --------- ---
              > It's here! Your new message!
              > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------ --------- --------- ---
              > Be a PS3 game guru.
              > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at
              Yahoo! Games.
              >




               
               
               
               
               
              As long as space remains, as long as living beings remain, until then - may I too remain to dispel the sufferings of the world. - Master Shantideva
               
               
               


              Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know.

            • Citizens Active
              I like the simple approach, I think some beginners get scared off or confused withh all the jargon. I ll leave the details to you aged vets! Marc Moss
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 20, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                I like the simple approach, I think some beginners get scared off or confused withh all the jargon.  I'll leave the details to you aged vets!
                 


                Marc Moss <jellybean0729@...> wrote:
                That's all you can do!!!

                bigrufedc <rTshinanga@hotmail. com> wrote:
                Thank you all for helping me out on this subject. I will try what
                works best for me at this stage.

                Rufin

                -- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, Citizens Active
                <citizensactive@ ...> wrote:
                >
                > Here's a great article for beginners, I think it will a big in
                setting you in the right direction. ZJust like everything else IMHO,
                practice is key. Realize that you'll lose focus but don't let it get
                you frustrated and before you know it you will be able to almost
                instantly get into a meditative state.
                >
                > heres the link for the article.
                > http://www.learntea chcreate. com/22.html
                >
                > Namaste!
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Marc Moss <jellybean0729@ ...> wrote:
                >
                > This meditation is accurate, but facilitates only the left
                hemisphere of the brain. The result of meditation is to remove the
                manifest forms of the belief that there is a separation in subject
                and object; and this is so because one has become aware that they are
                incorrect.
                >
                > Checking out the "monkey mind' is seeing how the thoughts are
                overwhelmingly undisciplined. We believe that we are this, and that
                thing is that, so our left brain distinquishes what something is upon
                analysis, and whatever conclusion we come to, our right hemisphere
                then makes it a reality. We no longer investigate something and it's
                the way it is until our left brain encounters a situation that proves
                it to be wrong. Science asserted that penecillin was the "cure" for
                many things...and today it doesn't seem to work like it once did.
                >
                > The Right hemisphere is responsible for the limbic system, or the
                sympathetic system. The solar plexus is the center of this system. It
                radiates energy, and attracts things to it. Mind is subtle matter,
                and once this matter is of a certain energy type, it will bring about
                precisely what's been put into it. See every thing you've ever done
                very well, without doubt in yourself. You consistently bring into
                being and attract to you all the things that fufill what you seek!
                Jesus said, "therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer,
                believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." Examine:
                >
                > I tell you - Jesus stands behind this statement. He is telling us
                from his experience and knowledge (I will not assert his divinity
                here, but as a sage of remarkable spiritual accomplishments; I think
                more people can then be receptive to this analysis)
                >
                > whatever - any or any one of a number of things whether
                specifically known or not; pretty broad! not just spiritual, but
                physical accomplishments and procurements as well
                >
                > you ask for - To express a desire for; you have to ask your
                spirit guide, God, Jesus, Buddhas, enlightened beings...or even just
                yourself! "May I be free from illness"..." may I replace my old beat
                up car"
                >
                > in prayer - undistractedly focused on the object to whom or what
                you pray. Meditation, concentration.
                >
                > believe - to have a conviction that (a person or thing) is, has
                been, or will be engaged in a given action or involved in a given
                situation. In other words, you should be able to visualize it crystal
                clear!! The stronger the image in the left hemisphere, the more power
                in the right hemisphere.
                >
                > that you have received it - past tense; you should now send it to
                the right hemisphere and 'feel' it.
                >
                > and it will be yours - it will be made manifest, or your karma
                now will ripen to experience the perceptions of this appearance in
                your own life; this is not just a statement of one controversial
                spiritual being, but this was taught by the Buddha in tantra;
                Kabbalah, and other practices.
                >
                > The denial that even thought can control or inspire the physical
                world is simply due to the lack of witnessing for oneself. If it
                can't be analyzed by the left brain, it can't be accepted by the
                whole psych-physical being.
                >
                > Managing the wandering mind will be of value to the visualization
                process. Left by itself to simply focus on "nothing", the mind will
                not progress with new material, but remain steadfast in its old
                material. We should be trying to change the program. Don't get stuck
                on the preliminaries; there is a deeper universe 'enfolded' within
                the 'unfolded' world we think we see.
                >
                > Marc
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > As long as space remains, as long as living beings remain, until
                then - may I too remain to dispel the sufferings of the world. -
                Master Shantideva
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                > It's here! Your new message!
                > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                > Be a PS3 game guru.
                > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at
                Yahoo! Games.
                >




                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                As long as space remains, as long as living beings remain, until then - may I too remain to dispel the sufferings of the world. - Master Shantideva
                 
                 
                 

                Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know.



                Share your inspiration, www.learnteachcreate.com


                8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
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              • kushikushun
                I heard someone say about Zen meditation that it is important to remain a beginner. But maybe thats just zennish. I am not to fond myself of the jargon I
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 21, 2007
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                  I heard someone say about Zen meditation that it is important to remain
                  a beginner. But maybe thats just zennish. I am not to fond myself of
                  the jargon I always get the feeling it might get too close to a
                  doctrine. But then again , I am just a beginner ;)

                  So yeah I am all for the simple approach too.

                  Take Care, Francisca.
                  meditation-air.blogspot.com

                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Citizens Active
                  <citizensactive@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I like the simple approach, I think some beginners get scared off or
                  confused withh all the jargon. I'll leave the details to you aged vets!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Marc Moss
                  If you seek certain results, then doctines that accord to your view of reality as of now are simply guideposts, outlines to learn how to color the picture in
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 21, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    If you seek certain results, then doctines that accord to your view of reality as of now are simply guideposts, outlines to learn how to color the picture in the book before moving forward. Master this coloring book and you move on to a new one.
                     
                    People fear doctrines because they do not like external restraints placed upon them. But, if the doctrines are recipes for producing the desired results, what happens if you leave out an ingredient? Do you get the same results? A spiritual path has to work, bottom line, if it's to be accepted by it's follower. It should produce the end result we seek.
                     
                    Study the doctrines and follow what you can accept and table the others. If you don't get it right away, don't criticize it, just don't put it into practice yet.
                     
                    Marc 


                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                    As long as space remains, as long as living beings remain, until then - may I too remain to dispel the sufferings of the world. - Master Shantideva
                     
                     
                     


                    TV dinner still cooling?
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                  • Jeff Belyea
                    Beautiful photos. Thanks. ... remain ... of ... off or ... vets!
                    Message 9 of 12 , Feb 21, 2007
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                      Beautiful photos. Thanks.


                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, kushikushun
                      <no_reply@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I heard someone say about Zen meditation that it is important to
                      remain
                      > a beginner. But maybe thats just zennish. I am not to fond myself
                      of
                      > the jargon I always get the feeling it might get too close to a
                      > doctrine. But then again , I am just a beginner ;)
                      >
                      > So yeah I am all for the simple approach too.
                      >
                      > Take Care, Francisca.
                      > meditation-air.blogspot.com
                      >
                      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Citizens Active
                      > <citizensactive@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I like the simple approach, I think some beginners get scared
                      off or
                      > confused withh all the jargon. I'll leave the details to you aged
                      vets!
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • sean tremblay
                      Has anyone read The cloud of unknowing not Buddhist but I ve been chewing on this on this one for over a year now. It s a small book but lots to contemplate.
                      Message 10 of 12 , Feb 21, 2007
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                        Has anyone read "The cloud of unknowing" not Buddhist but I've been chewing on this on this one for over a year now. It's a small book but lots to contemplate.

                        Marc Moss <jellybean0729@...> wrote:
                        If you seek certain results, then doctines that accord to your view of reality as of now are simply guideposts, outlines to learn how to color the picture in the book before moving forward. Master this coloring book and you move on to a new one.
                         
                        People fear doctrines because they do not like external restraints placed upon them. But, if the doctrines are recipes for producing the desired results, what happens if you leave out an ingredient? Do you get the same results? A spiritual path has to work, bottom line, if it's to be accepted by it's follower. It should produce the end result we seek.
                         
                        Study the doctrines and follow what you can accept and table the others. If you don't get it right away, don't criticize it, just don't put it into practice yet.
                         
                        Marc 


                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                        As long as space remains, as long as living beings remain, until then - may I too remain to dispel the sufferings of the world. - Master Shantideva
                         
                         
                         

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                      • medit8ionsociety
                        ... Yo Papajeff, I agree that the pics are beautiful. They remind me of the artwork in your excellent book Sunrise at Two Lions which is available at Amazon at
                        Message 11 of 12 , Feb 21, 2007
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                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
                          <jeff@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Beautiful photos. Thanks.
                          >
                          Yo Papajeff,
                          I agree that the pics are beautiful. They
                          remind me of the artwork in your excellent
                          book Sunrise at Two Lions which is available
                          at Amazon at this URL:
                          http://tinyurl.com/26atl4
                          And of course, the book is also perfect for
                          beginners!
                          Peace and blessings,
                          Bob
                          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, kushikushun
                          > <no_reply@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I heard someone say about Zen meditation that it is important to
                          > remain
                          > > a beginner. But maybe thats just zennish. I am not to fond myself
                          > of
                          > > the jargon I always get the feeling it might get too close to a
                          > > doctrine. But then again , I am just a beginner ;)
                          > >
                          > > So yeah I am all for the simple approach too.
                          > >
                          > > Take Care, Francisca.
                          > > meditation-air.blogspot.com
                          > >
                          > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Citizens Active
                          > > <citizensactive@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > I like the simple approach, I think some beginners get scared
                          > off or
                          > > confused withh all the jargon. I'll leave the details to you aged
                          > vets!
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Jeff Belyea
                          Sean - Yes. The Cloud of Unknowing is a great book. It is a classic on meditation - that typically focusing on something - like breath or a candle light, and
                          Message 12 of 12 , Feb 22, 2007
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                            Sean -

                            Yes.

                            The Cloud of Unknowing is a great book. It is a classic
                            on meditation - that typically focusing on "something" - like breath
                            or a candle light, and the next step into "nowhere and nothing" of
                            what is typically known as contemplation.

                            Silencing the mind is the goal. Absolute silence - no inner chatter,
                            sustained for even a few seconds (not as easy as it might seem)can
                            bring the contemplator into a direct experiential shift into pure
                            intuitive consciousness, into what is almost always described in
                            spiritual terms; like, "coming into the very presence of God" - the
                            goal of meditation (at least for the theist).

                            The "knowing" or coming through the cloud of unknowing is often
                            called enlightenment or realization - and does not depend on any
                            specific model (religious tradition), but many Christians (and even
                            Buddhists) find The Cloud of Unknowing a powerful presentation and
                            guide into meditation and the comtemplative life.

                            Love,as always,

                            Jeff


                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
                            <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Has anyone read "The cloud of unknowing" not Buddhist but I've been
                            chewing on this on this one for over a year now. It's a small book
                            but lots to contemplate.
                            >
                            > Marc Moss <jellybean0729@...> wrote: If you seek
                            certain results, then doctines that accord to your view of reality as
                            of now are simply guideposts, outlines to learn how to color the
                            picture in the book before moving forward. Master this coloring book
                            and you move on to a new one.
                            >
                            > People fear doctrines because they do not like external
                            restraints placed upon them. But, if the doctrines are recipes for
                            producing the desired results, what happens if you leave out an
                            ingredient? Do you get the same results? A spiritual path has to
                            work, bottom line, if it's to be accepted by it's follower. It should
                            produce the end result we seek.
                            >
                            > Study the doctrines and follow what you can accept and table the
                            others. If you don't get it right away, don't criticize it, just
                            don't put it into practice yet.
                            >
                            > Marc
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > As long as space remains, as long as living beings remain, until
                            then - may I too remain to dispel the sufferings of the world. -
                            Master Shantideva
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > TV dinner still cooling?
                            > Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
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                            > Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!
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