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Three 1/2 years.......nothing!

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  • the32family
    Hello group, My name s Sean. It was about three or four years ago,after a 7 year relationship crashed and burned,I started reading about self-realization.The
    Message 1 of 17 , Dec 13, 2006
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      Hello group,

      My name's Sean.

      It was about three or four years ago,after a 7 year relationship crashed
      and burned,I started reading about self-realization.The book was by Guy
      Finley,still one of my favorites,and it set me off.I never really looked
      back.I've had my ups and downs,like everyone,but I've read about 20
      books and try to stay conscious as much as possible,BUT,for the life of
      me,I still CANNOT acheive meditation.

      And I try OFTEN.

      Don't get me wrong,even 5 minutes of semi-silence is beneficial to
      me,but,I mean,real meditation.

      I recently got this program that just plays a constant tone,that worked
      great at first,but the effects have died down.Every session I pretty
      much start off ready to go,using whatever method I am
      trying(mantra,breathing.....),then slowly I will lose control of my
      thoughts,at which time it's like rounding up cattle,then,eventually fall
      asleep.Of course if I choose a postion that inhibits sleeping,it always
      comes with an itch or a bothersome pressure point.



      I guess there are many techniques that I haven't been patient enough
      with or having been properly taught,

      so I joined....

      Thanks for reading!
    • Silent Thunder
      Hi Sean, The best piece of advice anyone can give you is to practice awareness meditation. Every spiritual master that has ever walked the earth has taught to
      Message 2 of 17 , Dec 13, 2006
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        Hi Sean,
         
        The best piece of advice anyone can give you is to practice awareness meditation. Every spiritual master that has ever walked the earth has taught to practice this because they know that it is the most valuable lesson they can teach their disciples.
         
        Although it may seem difficult at first, this is very very very beneficial to self-realisation. Sit down (or lie down) and relax your body. Then just loot at every thought, emotion, sound or feeling that you get. Notice how they come and go without you inviting them.
         
        Go to meditationsociety.com and try out the different techniques listed there. You'll find a lot of change in yourself in the months to come.
         
        Peace,
        Silent Thunder


        the32family <the32family@...> wrote:

        Hello group,

        My name's Sean.

        It was about three or four years ago,after a 7 year relationship crashed
        and burned,I started reading about self-realization. The book was by Guy
        Finley,still one of my favorites,and it set me off.I never really looked
        back.I've had my ups and downs,like everyone,but I've read about 20
        books and try to stay conscious as much as possible,BUT, for the life of
        me,I still CANNOT acheive meditation.

        And I try OFTEN.

        Don't get me wrong,even 5 minutes of semi-silence is beneficial to
        me,but,I mean,real meditation.

        I recently got this program that just plays a constant tone,that worked
        great at first,but the effects have died down.Every session I pretty
        much start off ready to go,using whatever method I am
        trying(mantra, breathing. ....),then slowly I will lose control of my
        thoughts,at which time it's like rounding up cattle,then, eventually fall
        asleep.Of course if I choose a postion that inhibits sleeping,it always
        comes with an itch or a bothersome pressure point.

        I guess there are many techniques that I haven't been patient enough
        with or having been properly taught,

        so I joined....

        Thanks for reading!



        Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

      • Sandeep
        Hello Sean, The body popularly known as Sean goes to sleep. The body popularly known as Sean wakes up. While this alternate waking and sleeping carries on till
        Message 3 of 17 , Dec 13, 2006
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          Hello Sean,



          The body popularly known as Sean goes to sleep.
          The body
          popularly known as Sean wakes up.

          While this alternate waking and sleeping carries on till the body
          popularly known as Sean is "alive"....

          ...are you ever asleep?

          Or ever awake?




          What do you hope meditation will do for you?


                                                                                                   



          the32family wrote:


          Hello group,

          My name's Sean.

          It was about three or four years ago,after a 7 year relationship crashed
          and burned,I started reading about self-realization. The book was by Guy
          Finley,still one of my favorites,and it set me off.I never really looked
          back.I've had my ups and downs,like everyone,but I've read about 20
          books and try to stay conscious as much as possible,BUT, for the life of
          me,I still CANNOT acheive meditation.

          And I try OFTEN.

          Don't get me wrong,even 5 minutes of semi-silence is beneficial to
          me,but,I mean,real meditation.

          I recently got this program that just plays a constant tone,that worked
          great at first,but the effects have died down.Every session I pretty
          much start off ready to go,using whatever method I am
          trying(mantra, breathing. ....),then slowly I will lose control of my
          thoughts,at which time it's like rounding up cattle,then, eventually fall
          asleep.Of course if I choose a postion that inhibits sleeping,it always
          comes with an itch or a bothersome pressure point.

          I guess there are many techniques that I haven't been patient enough
          with or having been properly taught,

          so I joined....

          Thanks for reading!

        • Marc Moss
          Dear Sean, Don t give up and don t be discouraged. My first question is do you have a teacher? There are so many ingredients for successful meditation and
          Message 4 of 17 , Dec 13, 2006
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            Dear Sean,
             
            Don't give up and don't be discouraged. My first question is "do you have a teacher?" There are so many ingredients for successful meditation and having a teacher has an enormous effect in so many ways. From getting the correct information in a lineage that works, secrets of the practice that are generally not found in books, to the effect on the mind that a teacher has upon a student, the benefits of a "guru" are limitless.
             
            I would suggest that you look into the Diamond Mountain University teachings, ACI teachings (www.world-view.org) particularly the applied mediation course, Alexander Berzin has terrific teachings that he has received and has shared throughout the years, H.H. the Dalai Lama has terrific interpretations of Kamalashila's "Steps on Meditation", the list of great reads with great information is extensive. I personally swear by the teaching of Pabongka Rinpoche's book Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand. It is quite long and very detailed. Without a teacher to help guide you, though you might get a little frightened with it, misunderstand it, or just lose interest.
             
            There are many expressions of the teachings of meditation out there and they are suited to the student, not the ultimate. You should first decide what it is that you wish to accomplish through meditation and then find the teachings accordingly. If you don't know what you want, you won't really find a basis to discover it. You would be amazed to find that you already meditate in a lot of different things you do outside of crossing your legs and sitting still. In classical meditation there are nine different mental states for the ordinary person. We typically might go through three or four of them in states of focused concentration and not know that's what they are. You can take those experiences (like being absorbed in a good book or movie, practicing piano, prayer for someone's better health) and bring them onto the cushion so its not as foreign of an experience for you.
             
            If I can be of help, you can email me here or contact me directly. Anyone, as well from this group. 765.252.8398. Jellybean0729@....
             
             
            I have really enjoyed this group and hope that you do as well. There are wonderful practitioners here that are truly looking to help and are open to be helped. There are soooo many different methods of meditation BUT they don't amount to a hill of beans if they don't work for the practitioner. Something that helps this person might not be suitable for the next practitioner. I hope that you are able to find a teacher that will know your needs and be able to help you accordingly.
             
            Love to all,
            Marc Preston Moss


             
             
             
             
             
            As long as space remains, as long as living beings remain, until then - may I too remain to dispel the sufferings of the world. - Master Shantideva
             
             
             


            Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
          • the32family
            Thanks for all the responses.What I m looking for,I guess,first is a clear head and a clear perspective on life,so that I may make decisions from the outside
            Message 5 of 17 , Dec 13, 2006
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              Thanks for all the responses.What I'm looking for,I guess,first is a
              clear head and a clear perspective on life,so that I may make
              decisions from the outside looking in and properly
              analyze "things".Secondly,would be a connection,a transmittance,if
              you will.I would like to turn my will over to or at least have it
              nudged by "God"(insert name there)lol


              When I first came upon self-realization,the impact was sooo great.I
              felt invincible for a few months.However,without going into
              detail,things were much more stable at that time.I have a little more
              stress to overcome at this time,perhaps if things were still stable I
              would be further along in my growth,but,for sure,it has gotten me
              through a lot.

              OK,I will stop babbling,I am very happy to be a part of your group,I
              sincerely appreciate all the input and hopefully,I can provide some
              tidbits here and there as well(who knows>lol)


              Thanks







              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Marc Moss
              <jellybean0729@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Dear Sean,
              >
              > Don't give up and don't be discouraged. My first question is "do
              you have a teacher?" There are so many ingredients for successful
              meditation and having a teacher has an enormous effect in so many
              ways. From getting the correct information in a lineage that works,
              secrets of the practice that are generally not found in books, to the
              effect on the mind that a teacher has upon a student, the benefits of
              a "guru" are limitless.
              >
              > I would suggest that you look into the Diamond Mountain
              University teachings, ACI teachings (www.world-view.org) particularly
              the applied mediation course, Alexander Berzin has terrific teachings
              that he has received and has shared throughout the years, H.H. the
              Dalai Lama has terrific interpretations of Kamalashila's "Steps on
              Meditation", the list of great reads with great information is
              extensive. I personally swear by the teaching of Pabongka Rinpoche's
              book Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand. It is quite long and very
              detailed. Without a teacher to help guide you, though you might get a
              little frightened with it, misunderstand it, or just lose interest.
              >
              > There are many expressions of the teachings of meditation out
              there and they are suited to the student, not the ultimate. You
              should first decide what it is that you wish to accomplish through
              meditation and then find the teachings accordingly. If you don't know
              what you want, you won't really find a basis to discover it. You
              would be amazed to find that you already meditate in a lot of
              different things you do outside of crossing your legs and sitting
              still. In classical meditation there are nine different mental states
              for the ordinary person. We typically might go through three or four
              of them in states of focused concentration and not know that's what
              they are. You can take those experiences (like being absorbed in a
              good book or movie, practicing piano, prayer for someone's better
              health) and bring them onto the cushion so its not as foreign of an
              experience for you.
              >
              > If I can be of help, you can email me here or contact me
              directly. Anyone, as well from this group. 765.252.8398.
              Jellybean0729@...
              >
              >
              > I have really enjoyed this group and hope that you do as well.
              There are wonderful practitioners here that are truly looking to help
              and are open to be helped. There are soooo many different methods of
              meditation BUT they don't amount to a hill of beans if they don't
              work for the practitioner. Something that helps this person might not
              be suitable for the next practitioner. I hope that you are able to
              find a teacher that will know your needs and be able to help you
              accordingly.
              >
              > Love to all,
              > Marc Preston Moss
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > As long as space remains, as long as living beings remain, until
              then - may I too remain to dispel the sufferings of the world. -
              Master Shantideva
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
              >
            • cbondnelms
              Hi Sean: I m glad you found some answers. I had the same issue you had. My problem was mind racing. I just couldn t stop it. My mind seemed to think that
              Message 6 of 17 , Dec 13, 2006
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                Hi Sean:

                I'm glad you found some answers. I had the same issue you had.
                My problem was mind racing. I just couldn't stop it. My mind seemed
                to think that because I was trying to bring stillness to my thoughts,
                it had to fill it with something. It would drive me crazy. I
                started using tools. I'm a producer, so I used visuals. I use video
                clips to get me started. I can then flow right into a meditative
                state. I have some clips at http://www.tranquilityisyours.com

                I make sure my windows media player is on repeat and I use the clips
                as a visual tool, or close my eyes and use the audio as the tool to
                help me move past mind racing and into a meditative state. It works
                for my and several others I've heard from. I can log on anywhere and
                use them just to calm me down.

                If you get stuck again, see if it works for you.

                Good Luck,

                Cheryl
                http://www.tranquilityisyours.com

                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "the32family"
                <the32family@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thanks for all the responses.What I'm looking for,I guess,first is
                a
                > clear head and a clear perspective on life,so that I may make
                > decisions from the outside looking in and properly
                > analyze "things".Secondly,would be a connection,a transmittance,if
                > you will.I would like to turn my will over to or at least have it
                > nudged by "God"(insert name there)lol
                >
                >
                > When I first came upon self-realization,the impact was sooo great.I
                > felt invincible for a few months.However,without going into
                > detail,things were much more stable at that time.I have a little
                more
                > stress to overcome at this time,perhaps if things were still stable
                I
                > would be further along in my growth,but,for sure,it has gotten me
                > through a lot.
                >
                > OK,I will stop babbling,I am very happy to be a part of your
                group,I
                > sincerely appreciate all the input and hopefully,I can provide some
                > tidbits here and there as well(who knows>lol)
                >
                >
                > Thanks
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Marc Moss
                > <jellybean0729@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > Dear Sean,
                > >
                > > Don't give up and don't be discouraged. My first question
                is "do
                > you have a teacher?" There are so many ingredients for successful
                > meditation and having a teacher has an enormous effect in so many
                > ways. From getting the correct information in a lineage that works,
                > secrets of the practice that are generally not found in books, to
                the
                > effect on the mind that a teacher has upon a student, the benefits
                of
                > a "guru" are limitless.
                > >
                > > I would suggest that you look into the Diamond Mountain
                > University teachings, ACI teachings (www.world-view.org)
                particularly
                > the applied mediation course, Alexander Berzin has terrific
                teachings
                > that he has received and has shared throughout the years, H.H. the
                > Dalai Lama has terrific interpretations of Kamalashila's "Steps on
                > Meditation", the list of great reads with great information is
                > extensive. I personally swear by the teaching of Pabongka
                Rinpoche's
                > book Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand. It is quite long and very
                > detailed. Without a teacher to help guide you, though you might get
                a
                > little frightened with it, misunderstand it, or just lose interest.
                > >
                > > There are many expressions of the teachings of meditation out
                > there and they are suited to the student, not the ultimate. You
                > should first decide what it is that you wish to accomplish through
                > meditation and then find the teachings accordingly. If you don't
                know
                > what you want, you won't really find a basis to discover it. You
                > would be amazed to find that you already meditate in a lot of
                > different things you do outside of crossing your legs and sitting
                > still. In classical meditation there are nine different mental
                states
                > for the ordinary person. We typically might go through three or
                four
                > of them in states of focused concentration and not know that's what
                > they are. You can take those experiences (like being absorbed in a
                > good book or movie, practicing piano, prayer for someone's better
                > health) and bring them onto the cushion so its not as foreign of an
                > experience for you.
                > >
                > > If I can be of help, you can email me here or contact me
                > directly. Anyone, as well from this group. 765.252.8398.
                > Jellybean0729@
                > >
                > >
                > > I have really enjoyed this group and hope that you do as well.
                > There are wonderful practitioners here that are truly looking to
                help
                > and are open to be helped. There are soooo many different methods
                of
                > meditation BUT they don't amount to a hill of beans if they don't
                > work for the practitioner. Something that helps this person might
                not
                > be suitable for the next practitioner. I hope that you are able to
                > find a teacher that will know your needs and be able to help you
                > accordingly.
                > >
                > > Love to all,
                > > Marc Preston Moss
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > As long as space remains, as long as living beings remain,
                until
                > then - may I too remain to dispel the sufferings of the world. -
                > Master Shantideva
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ---------------------------------
                > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
                > >
                >
              • Daniel Bonekeeper
                Hi Sean, my first impression about you is that you have too much anxieties on your life that are keeping you from focus. Remember how much time Buddha himself
                Message 7 of 17 , Dec 13, 2006
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                  Hi Sean,
                  my first impression about you is that you have too much anxieties on
                  your life that are keeping you from focus. Remember how much time
                  Buddha himself had to sit down to achieve enlightenment. Remember also
                  that you have to give up anxieties and futile worries to achieve bliss
                  and happiness, not the other way around. "Abandoning attachment brings
                  release from suffering".

                  Daniel
                • Daniel Bonekeeper
                  If you have trouble concentrating or keeping your mind still, here s what I do: look for a silent place (I love to do it in my closet, it is big, totally dark
                  Message 8 of 17 , Dec 13, 2006
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                    If you have trouble concentrating or keeping your mind still, here's what I do: look for a silent place (I love to do it in my closet, it is big, totally dark and silent). Silence is important, because when you are in total silence, you can hear a buzzing sound like a "bzzzzzzzzzzzz" in the background. Use this sound as your guide. Listen to it, don't force anything, don't obligate yourself to listen to it. Just search and listen, and you will find that you can keep your thoughts away for long times while doing that.

                    Daniel
                  • sriramakrishnasutras
                    some say to try to find a place not between the eyes always but also you can try to have a place in your heart as focus instead. that might help. all paths
                    Message 9 of 17 , Dec 13, 2006
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                      some say to try to find a place not between the eyes always but also
                      you can try to have a place in your heart as focus instead. that
                      might help. all paths are good. maybe you could try a vipassana
                      course???? for ten days?


                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "the32family"
                      <the32family@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Hello group,
                      >
                      > My name's Sean.
                      >
                      > It was about three or four years ago,after a 7 year relationship crashed
                      > and burned,I started reading about self-realization.The book was by Guy
                      > Finley,still one of my favorites,and it set me off.I never really looked
                      > back.I've had my ups and downs,like everyone,but I've read about 20
                      > books and try to stay conscious as much as possible,BUT,for the life of
                      > me,I still CANNOT acheive meditation.
                      >
                      > And I try OFTEN.
                      >
                      > Don't get me wrong,even 5 minutes of semi-silence is beneficial to
                      > me,but,I mean,real meditation.
                      >
                      > I recently got this program that just plays a constant tone,that worked
                      > great at first,but the effects have died down.Every session I pretty
                      > much start off ready to go,using whatever method I am
                      > trying(mantra,breathing.....),then slowly I will lose control of my
                      > thoughts,at which time it's like rounding up cattle,then,eventually fall
                      > asleep.Of course if I choose a postion that inhibits sleeping,it always
                      > comes with an itch or a bothersome pressure point.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I guess there are many techniques that I haven't been patient enough
                      > with or having been properly taught,
                      >
                      > so I joined....
                      >
                      > Thanks for reading!
                      >
                    • sriramakrishnasutras
                      and just by trying - is a good thing like this quote: STRIVE Strive. Strive to realise God. This is the purpose of human birth. The perfection of the
                      Message 10 of 17 , Dec 13, 2006
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                        and just by trying - is a good thing like this quote:

                        STRIVE

                        Strive. Strive to realise God. This is the purpose of human birth. The
                        perfection of the realisation of absolute knowledge, supreme bliss and
                        immortality is the one and only goal in human life. Release from the
                        round of births and life in eternity is the goal of man. Till
                        self-realisation is attained, man is subject to the law of karma and
                        rebirth. Finish your task --- God­ realisation in this life itself; do
                        not postpone it. Just as food is necessary for the body so also daily
                        meditation and prayer are necessary for the soul.

                        O man! Wake up from this slumber of ignorance. Why do you waste your
                        life building castles in the air? Turn your gaze within. Stop all this
                        hurry and worry. Sit down and relax. Dive deep within. Discover the
                        pearl of atman. You will be freed from birth and death here and now.

                        Remember the goal every moment of this life. Strive incessantly to
                        realize it by living a life of detachment, dispassion, devotion, deep
                        meditation and samadhi (self-knowledge).

                        O man! Nothing is permanent. All things change. All things pass away.
                        Seek the permanent, changeless, immortal atman and be free. He is
                        truly wise who lives in the eternal and who is endowed with
                        discrimination and dispassion.

                        Life is a transforming process by which attachment, fear, anger,
                        hatred and lust are transformed by steady and rigorous discipline and
                        meditation into joy, bliss, peace and love.

                        In simplicity is the secret of real beauty. Simplify your life. Be
                        humble, pure, straight forward and true to yourself and others. Be
                        good and do good so that each tomorrow will find you farther than
                        today. Be humble, be meek, be pure, be holy, be godly and peaceful. Be
                        charitable. Be moral. Be humble. Be courageous. Be pure. Meditate.
                        Become wise. Whoever does anything with enthusiasm, patience and
                        perseverance, never fails to achieve his object. Annihilate desires.

                        Seek the company of saints and devotees. Control the mind. Control
                        anger. Be charitable. Help the needy. Kill the ego. Be grateful.
                        Respect the great. Be truthful. Indulge not in gossip. You will attain
                        the supreme blessedness.

                        :-)


                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "the32family"
                        <the32family@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Hello group,
                        >
                        > My name's Sean.
                        >
                        > It was about three or four years ago,after a 7 year relationship crashed
                        > and burned,I started reading about self-realization.The book was by Guy
                        > Finley,still one of my favorites,and it set me off.I never really looked
                        > back.I've had my ups and downs,like everyone,but I've read about 20
                        > books and try to stay conscious as much as possible,BUT,for the life of
                        > me,I still CANNOT acheive meditation.
                        >
                        > And I try OFTEN.
                        >
                        > Don't get me wrong,even 5 minutes of semi-silence is beneficial to
                        > me,but,I mean,real meditation.
                        >
                        > I recently got this program that just plays a constant tone,that worked
                        > great at first,but the effects have died down.Every session I pretty
                        > much start off ready to go,using whatever method I am
                        > trying(mantra,breathing.....),then slowly I will lose control of my
                        > thoughts,at which time it's like rounding up cattle,then,eventually fall
                        > asleep.Of course if I choose a postion that inhibits sleeping,it always
                        > comes with an itch or a bothersome pressure point.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I guess there are many techniques that I haven't been patient enough
                        > with or having been properly taught,
                        >
                        > so I joined....
                        >
                        > Thanks for reading!
                        >
                      • Daniel Bonekeeper
                        And do it fast... the way things are going, Earth may not last long enough for much more life cycles... if things are hard now, imagine in 200 years from now
                        Message 11 of 17 , Dec 13, 2006
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                          And do it fast... the way things are going, Earth may not last long enough for much more life cycles... if things are hard now, imagine in 200 years from now when you may be too busy to meditate because you need to find water to drink ... LOL
                        • Marc Moss
                          Some have said that meditation is just quieting the mind, having no thoughts. Wah Shan taught that meditation was about having no thoughts, not even awareness
                          Message 12 of 17 , Dec 14, 2006
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                            Some have said that meditation is just quieting the mind, having no thoughts. Wah Shan taught that meditation was about having no thoughts, not even awareness of thoughts. The path to enlightenment, according to him was to bring the mind to a state where no thoughts arise, whatsoever.  So, the most important question is this: does the Buddha think? Is enlightenment then comparable to being in a coma??
                             
                            Scientific studies on meditators are finding amazing changes in the brain...changes that usually don't occur. These changes are amazing because they are produced by the meditator, created willingly by the practitioner. Focused meditation (on an object, particularly a virtuous one like compassion, patience, emptiness) bring about a "re-wiring" of the brain, the physical brain. But, it is necessary for it to be a focused meditation...in which the mind remains fixed on the object for a very long period of time. The mind slowly withdraws from the senses and loses awareness of space and time. The parietal lobe of the brain (which is ALWAYS functioning and is ever aware of where you end and the rest of the world begins) slows down to almost nil. The practitioner at this time feels as though they have "become one with everything."
                             
                            Just sitting and becoming aware of you thoughts is a prerequisite to developing strong, one-pointed meditation. Having no thoughts at all isn't "emptiness", it's just unfocused and inspires little change in the mind. But, stilling the mind is important...and should lead to new levels in your meditative experience when you learn to fixate the mind.
                             
                            One must practice ethical living to ensure that the physical and mental basis is strong for meditation. It's a bit difficult to focus your mind on something virtuous like making changes and seeking enlightenment when you've been stealing and lying all day.
                             
                            I suggest reading Kamalashila's Bhavanakrama (steps of meditation) with a qualified teacher; Pabongka Rinpoche's Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand with a qualified teacher; Master Patanjali's texts on meditation with a qualified teacher...or learn from a qualified master from an honored lineage. This is important because you don't know if what you are learning will work or not unless it has been handed down the ages by masters who have used it. Watch out for those teaching something new...do they have someone in the lineage of their practice that accomplished the high goals they express?
                             
                            Thank you,
                            Sonam


                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                            As long as space remains, as long as living beings remain, until then - may I too remain to dispel the sufferings of the world. - Master Shantideva
                             
                             
                             


                            Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.
                          • Marc Moss
                            Abandon attachment...but how? Ignorance is the basis for attachment. The ignorant mind clings to what it believes to be true about something and then moves
                            Message 13 of 17 , Dec 14, 2006
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                              Abandon attachment...but how? Ignorance is the basis for attachment. The ignorant mind clings to what it believes to be true about something and then moves towards wanting to not be separated from that thing, or to be as far from it as possible. The way things appear and the way they are is not congruent. You are forced by your past karma to see the things the way you see them. If abandoning attachment was as simple as hearing someone tell you to "abandon attachment," don't think there'd be a multimillion dollar industry in psychotherapy.
                               
                              You must study how ignorance creates the other poisons, thus experiencing suffering. You must study the Second Arya Truth: The Cause of Suffering. Attachment is an ingredient in that mix, but there's another skin to that onion, friends!
                               
                              Sonam


                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                              As long as space remains, as long as living beings remain, until then - may I too remain to dispel the sufferings of the world. - Master Shantideva
                               
                               
                               


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                            • Marc Moss
                              Friends, If you practice these instructions correctly, then you will gain the razor-sharp sword of wisdom, a form of one pointed concentration where quietude
                              Message 14 of 17 , Dec 14, 2006
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                                Friends,
                                 
                                "If you practice these instructions correctly, then you will gain the razor-sharp sword of wisdom, a form of one pointed concentration where quietude and special insight (shamtha and vipassyana) are married together."
                                 
                                The following is a list of the scenes found in the middle of the blockprint chart that was completed in the Tibetan Fire-Sheep year in Bene Dremo Jong. It has been stored at the Tarndu Ling Temple of Baksa monastery. Here is a link for a copy of the chart:
                                 
                                Below is the translation of the instructions that appear in Tibetan on the sides of the chart:
                                 
                                1) Setting the Mind on the object (an instruction given to you by your teacher
                                2)Bringing the mind back to the object
                                3)Watchfulness
                                4)The six bends in the road represent the six powers. The first represents the power of learning the instructions. Based on this, one achieves the first mental state.
                                5)The elephant represents your mind, and his black color symbolizes dullness.
                                6)The monkey stands for distraction, and his black color represents agitation
                                7)The presence of the flames, and their relative size, from this point up to the seventh mental state represent the relative amount of effort needed to bring your mind back to the object, and the degree of watchfullness needed.
                                8)The power of contemplating the instructions, You use this to reach the second mental state.
                                9)Keeping the mind on the object with brief continuity
                                10)The gradual increase in the white patch from this point on, starting with the elephant's head, represent a gradual increase in the clarity and fixation of the mind.
                                11)This symbol stands for the five objects of the senses, which themselvs represent the various objects that agitation focuses upon
                                12)the power of bringing the mind back to the object. This allows you to attain the third and fourth mental states
                                13)Keeping the mind on the object, with patches where you lose the object
                                14)Subtle dullness. From this point on, you are able to recognize the distinction between obvious and subtle dullness, and other such details
                                15) The monkey looking back represents the ability both to tell when your mind is wandering, and to re-focus it upon the object of meditation
                                16) Maintaining the mind tightly on the object
                                17) The power of watchfulness. This allows you to reach the fifth and sixth mental states
                                18)Agitation is the first of the two that loses its power to appear in your mind
                                19) When you are trying to develop quietude, even allowing you mind to be distracted to a virtuous object becomes an obstacle, and you must seek to stop it. When you are doing other practices though you do not have to stop it. And so we see the monkey reaching for the fruit of a second activity
                                20) Watchfulness will not let the mind get distracted; and uplifting your heart leads you to a state of one-pointed concentration
                                21) Controlling the mind
                                22) Quieting the mind
                                23) The power of effort. This allows you to reach the seventh and the eighth mental states
                                24) Completely Quieting the mind. At this point it is difficult for even subtle forms of dullness and agitation to occur. Even if they do come, you are able to eliminate them immediately with a minimum of effort
                                25) Here the fact taht the elephant has lost all the black, and left behind the monkey as well, represents your ability to engage in one-pointed concentration in an uninterrupted stream: if you apply just a little effort to bring your mind to the object and maintain watchfulness, then dullness, agitation, and distraction can no longer interrupt your meditation.
                                26) Attaining single-pointedness
                                27)The power of complete habituation, which enables you to reach the ninth mental state
                                28) Reaching deep meditation
                                29) Achieving quietude (shamata)
                                30) Physical meditative pleasure
                                31) Mental meditative pleasure
                                32) Special insight (vipashyana) and quietude (shamata) marry together, focussing on emptiness, and allow you to cut the root of this suffering life
                                33) One goes on to seek the correct view of reality, with a great ability to bring the mind to the object, and to maintain watchfulness
                                 
                                These instructions that appear on the chart were developed from the words of the Buddha himself. He gave the teaching on the five mental states as follows:
                                 
                                Place the mind on an object;
                                place the mind on the object with some continuity;
                                place the mind on the object and patch the gaps;
                                place themind on the object closely;
                                control the mind;
                                pacify the mind;
                                pacify the mind totally;
                                make the mind single-pointed;
                                and achieve equilibrium
                                 
                                These are nine states of mind in meditation. As you can see, all of the instructions given by Lord Buddha here indicate the union of the mind with AN object. Meditating without an object would be like archery without a target...who knows where the arrow is going to go. I suggest printing these nine statements on index cards and testing yourself in your next meditation session to see which mental state you can reach.
                                 
                                Sonam Tsering
                                 
                                 


                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                As long as space remains, as long as living beings remain, until then - may I too remain to dispel the sufferings of the world. - Master Shantideva
                                 
                                 
                                 


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                              • the32family
                                Thanks Cheryl, This board has een fantastic so far,i can see i made a great decision to join My problem(if you can call it that lol)with visuals thus far
                                Message 15 of 17 , Dec 14, 2006
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                                  Thanks Cheryl,

                                  This board has een fantastic so far,i can see i made a great decision
                                  to join>

                                  My problem(if you can call it that lol)with "visuals" thus far has
                                  simply been the placement of my computer,the comfortablity of my desk
                                  chair,the light in the room...etc.,but i can see how it would work.I
                                  feel i need a pitch black room with a large screen.I also feel the
                                  urge to close my eyes.

                                  using this with headphones has DEFINITELY been a help:

                                  http://www.bwgen.com


                                  cool,I'll let you know how it goes.




                                  -- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cbondnelms"
                                  <cbondnelms@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hi Sean:
                                  >
                                  > I'm glad you found some answers. I had the same issue you had.
                                  > My problem was mind racing. I just couldn't stop it. My mind
                                  seemed
                                  > to think that because I was trying to bring stillness to my
                                  thoughts,
                                  > it had to fill it with something. It would drive me crazy. I
                                  > started using tools. I'm a producer, so I used visuals. I use
                                  video
                                  > clips to get me started. I can then flow right into a meditative
                                  > state. I have some clips at http://www.tranquilityisyours.com
                                  >
                                  > I make sure my windows media player is on repeat and I use the
                                  clips
                                  > as a visual tool, or close my eyes and use the audio as the tool to
                                  > help me move past mind racing and into a meditative state. It
                                  works
                                  > for my and several others I've heard from. I can log on anywhere
                                  and
                                  > use them just to calm me down.
                                  >
                                  > If you get stuck again, see if it works for you.
                                  >
                                  > Good Luck,
                                  >
                                  > Cheryl
                                  > http://www.tranquilityisyours.com
                                  >
                                  >
                                • the32family
                                  ... You re very right Daniel.Without going into too much detail and boring you with the details of my personal life,the sudden loss of my job followed by a
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Dec 14, 2006
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                                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Bonekeeper"
                                    <bonekeeper@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Hi Sean,
                                    > my first impression about you is that you have too much anxieties on
                                    > your life that are keeping you from focus. Remember how much time
                                    > Buddha himself had to sit down to achieve enlightenment. Remember also
                                    > that you have to give up anxieties and futile worries to achieve bliss
                                    > and happiness, not the other way around. "Abandoning attachment brings
                                    > release from suffering".
                                    >
                                    > Daniel
                                    >





                                    You're very right Daniel.Without going into too much detail and boring
                                    you with the details of my personal life,the sudden loss of my job
                                    followed by a failed business venture has put extreme anxiety on me.I
                                    have extreme pressure from others as well,which is natural,I can only
                                    lean on a person for so long....

                                    Quickly,

                                    Before these things happened and life was coasting along,I became self-
                                    realized and lost absolutely all stress.Little things that used to eat
                                    away at me no longer had any effect.(my appearance,my spending
                                    money...etc..)

                                    Things were great!!!!

                                    Then this!Now,I know the right answer,however,that stress you detect is
                                    definitely present and this time is not subsiding as easily.

                                    But,yes,I know the answer,the one and only answer to overcome
                                    everything this "dream" presents.

                                    Sometimes,though,and I wonder if any of you ever feel this way,

                                    I feel like it shouldn't have to be this hard.I mean,to sit there with
                                    all the force that you can muster up in your heart and plead with "God"
                                    to let you into His consciousness,to "show you the light"
                                    then get nothing in return is VERY frustrating.

                                    Thanks
                                    awesome group
                                  • Citizens Active
                                    Sean, I was in a similiar situation as you recently. When it got to the point I couldn t keep focus on my focus point (my breath), I threw myself to the
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Dec 16, 2006
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                                      Sean,
                                       
                                      I was in a similiar situation as you recently.  When it got to the point I couldn't keep focus on my focus point (my breath), I threw myself to the universe so to speak, focusing on direction and purpose.  Afterwhich, I received related dreams ans had some so-called coincidences happen which relieve much of the anxiety which also helped to keep focus on meditations.  Something that also helped me was the use of reiki symbols in meditations, just do a search they're easy to find.  Also, you want to try to open up in a different like getting a reiki session done, you can find practioners everywhere now.  How this helps!


                                      the32family <the32family@...> wrote:
                                      Thanks Cheryl,

                                      This board has een fantastic so far,i can see i made a great decision
                                      to join>

                                      My problem(if you can call it that lol)with "visuals" thus far has
                                      simply been the placement of my computer,the comfortablity of my desk
                                      chair,the light in the room...etc., but i can see how it would work.I
                                      feel i need a pitch black room with a large screen.I also feel the
                                      urge to close my eyes.

                                      using this with headphones has DEFINITELY been a help:

                                      http://www.bwgen. com

                                      cool,I'll let you know how it goes.

                                      -- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "cbondnelms"
                                      <cbondnelms@ ...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hi Sean:
                                      >
                                      > I'm glad you found some answers. I had the same issue you had.
                                      > My problem was mind racing. I just couldn't stop it. My mind
                                      seemed
                                      > to think that because I was trying to bring stillness to my
                                      thoughts,
                                      > it had to fill it with something. It would drive me crazy. I
                                      > started using tools. I'm a producer, so I used visuals. I use
                                      video
                                      > clips to get me started. I can then flow right into a meditative
                                      > state. I have some clips at http://www.tranquil ityisyours. com.
                                      >
                                      > I make sure my windows media player is on repeat and I use the
                                      clips
                                      > as a visual tool, or close my eyes and use the audio as the tool to
                                      > help me move past mind racing and into a meditative state. It
                                      works
                                      > for my and several others I've heard from. I can log on anywhere
                                      and
                                      > use them just to calm me down.
                                      >
                                      > If you get stuck again, see if it works for you.
                                      >
                                      > Good Luck,
                                      >
                                      > Cheryl
                                      > http://www.tranquil ityisyours. com
                                      >
                                      >


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