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Fwd: Meditation States and Traits: EEG, ERP, and Neuroimaging Studies

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  • dakarmesh
    ... wrote: Hi friends, I just come across the following recent study that I felt might be useful for us all to review: Meditation States and
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 5, 2006
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      --- In meditation_research@yahoogroups.com, "Nirodha (Bill Gray)"
      <nirodhasati@...> wrote:

      Hi friends,

      I just come across the following recent study that I felt might be
      useful for us all to review:

      Meditation States and Traits: EEG,ERP,and Neuroimaging Studies
      B.Rael Cahn John Polich

      Overview and Definitions
      Electroencephalographic(EEG)studies of meditative states
      have been conducted for almost 50 years, but no clear consensus
      about the underlying neurophysiological changes from meditation
      practice has emerged. Sensory evoked potential(EP)and cognitive
      event-related potential(ERP)assessments of meditative practice
      also reflect variegated results. Some reliable meditation-related
      EEG frequency effects for theta and alpha activity,as well as EEG
      coherence and ERP component changes,have been observed.
      Positronemissiontomography(PET)and functional magnetic
      resonance imaging(fMRI)studies are beginning to refine the
      neuroelectric data by suggesting possible neural loci for meditation
      effects, although how and where such practice may alter the central
      nervous system(CNS)have not yet been well characterized. The
      current study reviews and summarizes the neuroelectric results in
      conjunction with neuroimaging findings. Toward this end, medi-
      tation terms and effects are defined, the results of neuroelectric
      meditation studies are collated, and the findings are related to other
      neuroimaging reports.

      Excerpted from Meditation States and Traits: EEG, ERP, and
      Neuroimaging Studies
      http://www.mindandlife.org/sri06.reading.lists/saron01.pdf

      I've uploaded a copy to the Files section of the forum.

      Happiness and Ease to you all,
      Nirodha (Bill Gray)

      --- End forwarded message ---
    • Shankar Iyer/Personal Mails
      Dear all: Re: EEG etc. While there many be scientific methods to analyse and evaluate effects of meditation, etc., which as of now, I suppose, have to be taken
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 8, 2006
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        Dear all:
         
        Re: EEG etc.
         
        While there many be scientific methods to analyse and evaluate effects of meditation, etc., which as of now, I suppose, have to be taken to further heights, well developed clarivoyants (and trustworthy ones, like your close friends) can help.
         
        For example, my wife went through a CT Scan when she had breast cancer.  The scan took 2 odd hours in a sophisticated Siemens machine.  This was analysed and put down on paper (the results).  I had a surgeon friend (a very close friend) who analysed this report further.  We called in another friend (he was also a very close friend) who was a highly developed clarivoyant.  This guy was not shown the CT scan report.  This clarivoyant just closed his eyes and within 15 odd minutes gave a complete report of my wife's bodily position.  You will be surprised to know that the CT scan report matched with what this clarivoyant said. So the effects of meditation need not necessarily be attested/checked up through "material" methods.
         
        Another example: I took up meditation through the Shaktipat system around 1999.  I was engaged in very intense meditation.  This clarivoyant guy (above mentioned) was not knowing that I am into meditation.  I chanced to meet him some time in 2002.  Immediately upon seeing me, the guy said: "what are you doing now a days? Are you in some kind of deep meditation system?".  I did not reply.  He came out with details of how my chakras were prior to meditation and post meditation and what was the result of the Kundalini jagrati.".  He was correct.
         
         
         
        Shankar Iyer

        dakarmesh <dakarmesh@...> wrote:

        --- In meditation_research @yahoogroups. com, "Nirodha (Bill Gray)"
        <nirodhasati@ ...> wrote:

        Hi friends,

        I just come across the following recent study that I felt might be
        useful for us all to review:

        Meditation States and Traits: EEG,ERP,and Neuroimaging Studies
        B.Rael Cahn John Polich

        Overview and Definitions
        Electroencephalogra phic(EEG) studies of meditative states
        have been conducted for almost 50 years, but no clear consensus
        about the underlying neurophysiological changes from meditation
        practice has emerged. Sensory evoked potential(EP) and cognitive
        event-related potential(ERP) assessments of meditative practice
        also reflect variegated results. Some reliable meditation-related
        EEG frequency effects for theta and alpha activity,as well as EEG
        coherence and ERP component changes,have been observed.
        Positronemissiontom ography(PET) and functional magnetic
        resonance imaging(fMRI) studies are beginning to refine the
        neuroelectric data by suggesting possible neural loci for meditation
        effects, although how and where such practice may alter the central
        nervous system(CNS)have not yet been well characterized. The
        current study reviews and summarizes the neuroelectric results in
        conjunction with neuroimaging findings. Toward this end, medi-
        tation terms and effects are defined, the results of neuroelectric
        meditation studies are collated, and the findings are related to other
        neuroimaging reports.

        Excerpted from Meditation States and Traits: EEG, ERP, and
        Neuroimaging Studies
        http://www.mindandl ife.org/sri06. reading.lists/ saron01.pdf

        I've uploaded a copy to the Files section of the forum.

        Happiness and Ease to you all,
        Nirodha (Bill Gray)

        --- End forwarded message ---



        Do you Yahoo!?
        Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

      • Shankar Iyer/Personal Mails
        Dear all: I saw quite a debate on meditational systems. Commonly understood, healthy debates are good for intellectual growth. However (my personal
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 9, 2006
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          Dear all:
           
          I saw quite a debate on meditational systems. Commonly understood, healthy debates are good for intellectual growth.  However (my personal experience) I feel that debate on meditation/meditation system does not help much, except in some cases. It rather creates confusion.
           
          I suppose if you have a living Guru, and if he is a real Guru, just go by him without debating. Progress is definite.  Progress can be felt.  I still would like to go by the maxim that one must not question his Guru. He is simply right.  However, repeat, however, the Guru must be a Guru in the right sense of the term. True to the meaning of Guru in letter and spirit.  Many times, we educated and so called professional people debate, try and find pin holes and think that the Guru may or may not be right and that we must simply follow our instincts or go by logical conclusions.  I have found out  that a spontaneous reponse from a Guru may be correct and a continued logical and intellectually thought out response may not be.
           
          In so far as meditation is concerned, one gets into a given meditational system on the basis of his sanskaras.  So if a person is into a given kind of meditation system, he is there because of the sanskaras.  Everybody has his own sanskaras.  Therefore different people would most certainly follow different paths.  So there would be different ways, leading to the same destination.
           
          People do meditation for several reasons, the two predominent reasons being a. good health b. spiritual attainment.  If one is into meditation purely for spiritual reasons, then just go by the Guru without debate/questioning. Nike's maxim: Just do it is perhaps, in my opinion, the only way out. No debate, just do it.
           
          Shankar Iyer

          Shankar Iyer/Personal Mails <ksiyer_idmc@...> wrote:
          Dear all:
           
          Re: EEG etc.
           
          While there many be scientific methods to analyse and evaluate effects of meditation, etc., which as of now, I suppose, have to be taken to further heights, well developed clarivoyants (and trustworthy ones, like your close friends) can help.
           
          For example, my wife went through a CT Scan when she had breast cancer.  The scan took 2 odd hours in a sophisticated Siemens machine.  This was analysed and put down on paper (the results).  I had a surgeon friend (a very close friend) who analysed this report further.  We called in another friend (he was also a very close friend) who was a highly developed clarivoyant.  This guy was not shown the CT scan report.  This clarivoyant just closed his eyes and within 15 odd minutes gave a complete report of my wife's bodily position.  You will be surprised to know that the CT scan report matched with what this clarivoyant said. So the effects of meditation need not necessarily be attested/checked up through "material" methods.
           
          Another example: I took up meditation through the Shaktipat system around 1999.  I was engaged in very intense meditation.  This clarivoyant guy (above mentioned) was not knowing that I am into meditation.  I chanced to meet him some time in 2002.  Immediately upon seeing me, the guy said: "what are you doing now a days? Are you in some kind of deep meditation system?".  I did not reply.  He came out with details of how my chakras were prior to meditation and post meditation and what was the result of the Kundalini jagrati.".  He was correct.
           
           
           
          Shankar Iyer

          dakarmesh <dakarmesh@yahoo. com> wrote:

          --- In meditation_research @yahoogroups. com, "Nirodha (Bill Gray)"
          <nirodhasati@ ...> wrote:

          Hi friends,

          I just come across the following recent study that I felt might be
          useful for us all to review:

          Meditation States and Traits: EEG,ERP,and Neuroimaging Studies
          B.Rael Cahn John Polich

          Overview and Definitions
          Electroencephalogra phic(EEG) studies of meditative states
          have been conducted for almost 50 years, but no clear consensus
          about the underlying neurophysiological changes from meditation
          practice has emerged. Sensory evoked potential(EP) and cognitive
          event-related potential(ERP) assessments of meditative practice
          also reflect variegated results. Some reliable meditation-related
          EEG frequency effects for theta and alpha activity,as well as EEG
          coherence and ERP component changes,have been observed.
          Positronemissiontom ography(PET) and functional magnetic
          resonance imaging(fMRI) studies are beginning to refine the
          neuroelectric data by suggesting possible neural loci for meditation
          effects, although how and where such practice may alter the central
          nervous system(CNS)have not yet been well characterized. The
          current study reviews and summarizes the neuroelectric results in
          conjunction with neuroimaging findings. Toward this end, medi-
          tation terms and effects are defined, the results of neuroelectric
          meditation studies are collated, and the findings are related to other
          neuroimaging reports.

          Excerpted from Meditation States and Traits: EEG, ERP, and
          Neuroimaging Studies
          http://www.mindandl ife.org/sri06. reading.lists/ saron01.pdf

          I've uploaded a copy to the Files section of the forum.

          Happiness and Ease to you all,
          Nirodha (Bill Gray)

          --- End forwarded message ---



          Do you Yahoo!?
          Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.


          Do you Yahoo!?
          Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

        • Des Brittain
          I don t bump into too many Gurus where I live so I guess i will just have to carry on doing what I do without the benefit of some smartass who thinks he can
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 9, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            I don't bump into too many Gurus where I live so I guess i will just have to
            carry on doing what I do without the benefit of some smartass who thinks he
            can tell me how to live my life.

            Meditation is so simple. Just sit and count up to ten. Count every outbreath
            and concentrate on that. Try not to wander away with other thoughts, just
            keep coming back to the count. At the tenth count say, Dear God and then
            start again at one. Keep doing this for about twenty minutes to half an hour
            once or twice a day. Things will happen and you will get better at it. You
            will be guided from within. You will be shown what to do. Believe me. It's
            not complicated. Keep it simple.

            Keep doing this week after week and your life will change for the better.
            Things will flow and little coincidences will start to happen. You will know
            instinctively what to do. It's great.

            That's all you need to know for now. Further knowledge will come as you
            require it.

            Have a nice day! (no need for daft sounding Indian words either)


            >From: Shankar Iyer/Personal Mails <ksiyer_idmc@...>
            >Reply-To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
            >To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Fwd: Meditation States and
            >Traits: EEG, ERP, and Neuroimaging Studies
            >Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 04:46:52 -0700 (PDT)
            >
            >Dear all:
            >
            > I saw quite a debate on meditational systems. Commonly understood,
            >healthy debates are good for intellectual growth. However (my personal
            >experience) I feel that debate on meditation/meditation system does not
            >help much, except in some cases. It rather creates confusion.
            >
            > I suppose if you have a living Guru, and if he is a real Guru, just go
            >by him without debating. Progress is definite. Progress can be felt. I
            >still would like to go by the maxim that one must not question his Guru. He
            >is simply right. However, repeat, however, the Guru must be a Guru in the
            >right sense of the term. True to the meaning of Guru in letter and spirit.
            >Many times, we educated and so called professional people debate, try and
            >find pin holes and think that the Guru may or may not be right and that we
            >must simply follow our instincts or go by logical conclusions. I have
            >found out that a spontaneous reponse from a Guru may be correct and a
            >continued logical and intellectually thought out response may not be.
            >
            > In so far as meditation is concerned, one gets into a given meditational
            >system on the basis of his sanskaras. So if a person is into a given kind
            >of meditation system, he is there because of the sanskaras. Everybody has
            >his own sanskaras. Therefore different people would most certainly follow
            >different paths. So there would be different ways, leading to the same
            >destination.
            >
            > People do meditation for several reasons, the two predominent reasons
            >being a. good health b. spiritual attainment. If one is into meditation
            >purely for spiritual reasons, then just go by the Guru without
            >debate/questioning. Nike's maxim: Just do it is perhaps, in my opinion, the
            >only way out. No debate, just do it.
            >
            > Shankar Iyer
            >
            >Shankar Iyer/Personal Mails <ksiyer_idmc@...> wrote:
            > Dear all:
            >
            > Re: EEG etc.
            >
            > While there many be scientific methods to analyse and evaluate effects
            >of meditation, etc., which as of now, I suppose, have to be taken to
            >further heights, well developed clarivoyants (and trustworthy ones, like
            >your close friends) can help.
            >
            > For example, my wife went through a CT Scan when she had breast cancer.
            >The scan took 2 odd hours in a sophisticated Siemens machine. This was
            >analysed and put down on paper (the results). I had a surgeon friend (a
            >very close friend) who analysed this report further. We called in another
            >friend (he was also a very close friend) who was a highly developed
            >clarivoyant. This guy was not shown the CT scan report. This clarivoyant
            >just closed his eyes and within 15 odd minutes gave a complete report of my
            >wife's bodily position. You will be surprised to know that the CT scan
            >report matched with what this clarivoyant said. So the effects of
            >meditation need not necessarily be attested/checked up through "material"
            >methods.
            >
            > Another example: I took up meditation through the Shaktipat system
            >around 1999. I was engaged in very intense meditation. This clarivoyant
            >guy (above mentioned) was not knowing that I am into meditation. I chanced
            >to meet him some time in 2002. Immediately upon seeing me, the guy said:
            >"what are you doing now a days? Are you in some kind of deep meditation
            >system?". I did not reply. He came out with details of how my chakras
            >were prior to meditation and post meditation and what was the result of the
            >Kundalini jagrati.". He was correct.
            >
            >
            >
            > Shankar Iyer
            >
            >dakarmesh <dakarmesh@...> wrote:
            >
            >--- In meditation_research@yahoogroups.com, "Nirodha (Bill Gray)"
            ><nirodhasati@...> wrote:
            >
            >Hi friends,
            >
            >I just come across the following recent study that I felt might be
            >useful for us all to review:
            >
            >Meditation States and Traits: EEG,ERP,and Neuroimaging Studies
            >B.Rael Cahn John Polich
            >
            >Overview and Definitions
            >Electroencephalographic(EEG)studies of meditative states
            >have been conducted for almost 50 years, but no clear consensus
            >about the underlying neurophysiological changes from meditation
            >practice has emerged. Sensory evoked potential(EP)and cognitive
            >event-related potential(ERP)assessments of meditative practice
            >also reflect variegated results. Some reliable meditation-related
            >EEG frequency effects for theta and alpha activity,as well as EEG
            >coherence and ERP component changes,have been observed.
            >Positronemissiontomography(PET)and functional magnetic
            >resonance imaging(fMRI)studies are beginning to refine the
            >neuroelectric data by suggesting possible neural loci for meditation
            >effects, although how and where such practice may alter the central
            >nervous system(CNS)have not yet been well characterized. The
            >current study reviews and summarizes the neuroelectric results in
            >conjunction with neuroimaging findings. Toward this end, medi-
            >tation terms and effects are defined, the results of neuroelectric
            >meditation studies are collated, and the findings are related to other
            >neuroimaging reports.
            >
            >Excerpted from Meditation States and Traits: EEG, ERP, and
            >Neuroimaging Studies
            >http://www.mindandlife.org/sri06.reading.lists/saron01.pdf
            >
            >I've uploaded a copy to the Files section of the forum.
            >
            >Happiness and Ease to you all,
            >Nirodha (Bill Gray)
            >
            >--- End forwarded message ---
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >---------------------------------
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            >Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >---------------------------------
            >Do you Yahoo!?
            > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
          • Aideen McKenna
            It seems to be a matter of culture. Westerners, generally speaking, can t prostrate themselves before another, however wise she/he may be. That s neither
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 9, 2006
            • 0 Attachment

              It seems to be a matter of culture.  Westerners, generally speaking, can’t prostrate themselves before another, however wise she/he may be.  That’s neither good nor bad, just the way it is.  I’ve had the same experience as Des, complete with the coincidences (isn’t that amazing, the coincidences?)  Your life does change.  And yes, it is great.  May all sentient beings have a nice day. 

              Aideen.

               


              From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Des Brittain
              Sent: August 9, 2006 3:54 PM
              To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Fwd: Meditation States and Traits: EEG, ERP, and Neuroimaging Studies

               

              I don't bump into too many Gurus where I live so I guess i will just have to
              carry on doing what I do without the benefit of some smartass who thinks he
              can tell me how to live my life.

              Meditation is so simple. Just sit and count up to ten. Count every outbreath
              and concentrate on that. Try not to wander away with other thoughts, just
              keep coming back to the count. At the tenth count say, Dear God and then
              start again at one. Keep doing this for about twenty minutes to half an hour
              once or twice a day. Things will happen and you will get better at it. You
              will be guided from within. You will be shown what to do. Believe me. It's
              not complicated. Keep it simple.

              Keep doing this week after week and your life will change for the better.
              Things will flow and little coincidences will start to happen. You will know
              instinctively what to do. It's great.

              That's all you need to know for now. Further knowledge will come as you
              require it.

              Have a nice day! (no need for daft sounding Indian words either)

              >From: Shankar Iyer/Personal Mails <
              href="mailto:ksiyer_idmc%40yahoo.com">ksiyer_idmc@ yahoo.com>
              >Reply-To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
              >To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
              >Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of
              w:st="on">America ] Fwd: Meditation States and
              >Traits: EEG, ERP, and Neuroimaging Studies
              >Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 04:46:52 -0700 (PDT)
              >
              >Dear all:
              >
              > I saw quite a debate on meditational systems. Commonly understood,
              >healthy debates are good for intellectual growth. However (my personal
              >experience) I feel that debate on meditation/meditati on system does
              not
              >help much, except in some cases. It rather creates confusion.
              >
              > I suppose if you have a living Guru, and if he is a real Guru, just go
              >by him without debating. Progress is definite. Progress can be felt. I
              >still would like to go by the maxim that one must not question his Guru. He
              >is simply right. However, repeat, however, the Guru must be a Guru in the
              >right sense of the term. True to the meaning of Guru in letter and spirit.
              >Many times, we educated and so called professional people debate, try and
              >find pin holes and think that the Guru may or may not be right and that we
              >must simply follow our instincts or go by logical conclusions. I have
              >found out that a spontaneous reponse from a Guru may be correct and a
              >continued logical and intellectually thought out response may not be.
              >
              > In so far as meditation is concerned, one gets into a given meditational
              >system on the basis of his sanskaras. So if a person is into a given kind
              >of meditation system, he is there because of the sanskaras. Everybody has
              >his own sanskaras. Therefore different people would most certainly follow
              >different paths. So there would be different ways, leading to the same
              >destination.
              >
              > People do meditation for several reasons, the two predominent reasons
              >being a. good health b. spiritual attainment. If one is into meditation
              >purely for spiritual reasons, then just go by the Guru without
              >debate/questioning . Nike's maxim: Just do it is perhaps, in my
              opinion, the
              >only way out. No debate, just do it.
              >
              > Shankar Iyer
              >
              >Shankar Iyer/Personal Mails <ksiyer_idmc@ yahoo.com>
              wrote:
              > Dear all:
              >
              > Re: EEG etc.
              >
              > While there many be scientific methods to analyse and evaluate effects
              >of meditation, etc., which as of now, I suppose, have to be taken to
              >further heights, well developed clarivoyants (and trustworthy ones, like
              >your close friends) can help.
              >
              > For example, my wife went through a CT Scan when she had breast cancer.
              >The scan took 2 odd hours in a sophisticated Siemens machine. This was
              >analysed and put down on paper (the results). I had a surgeon friend (a
              >very close friend) who analysed this report further. We called in another
              >friend (he was also a very close friend) who was a highly developed
              >clarivoyant. This guy was not shown the CT scan report. This clarivoyant
              >just closed his eyes and within 15 odd minutes gave a complete report of my
              >wife's bodily position. You will be surprised to know that the CT scan
              >report matched with what this clarivoyant said. So the effects of
              >meditation need not necessarily be attested/checked up through
              "material"
              >methods.
              >
              > Another example: I took up meditation through the Shaktipat system
              >around 1999. I was engaged in very intense meditation. This clarivoyant
              >guy (above mentioned) was not knowing that I am into meditation. I chanced
              >to meet him some time in 2002. Immediately upon seeing me, the guy said:
              >"what are you doing now a days? Are you in some kind of deep
              meditation
              >system?". I did not reply. He came out with details of how my chakras
              >were prior to meditation and post meditation and what was the result of the
              >Kundalini jagrati.". He was correct.
              >
              >
              >
              > Shankar Iyer
              >
              >dakarmesh <dakarmesh@yahoo. com>
              wrote:
              >
              >--- In meditation_research @yahoogroups. com,
              "Nirodha (Bill Gray)"
              ><nirodhasati@ ...> wrote:
              >
              >Hi friends,
              >
              >I just come across the following recent study that I felt might be
              >useful for us all to review:
              >
              > Meditation
              w:st="on">States and Traits: EEG,ERP,and Neuroimaging Studies
              >B.Rael Cahn John Polich
              >
              >Overview and Definitions
              >Electroencephalogr aphic(EEG) studies of meditative states
              >have been conducted for almost 50 years, but no clear consensus
              >about the underlying neurophysiological changes from meditation
              >practice has emerged. Sensory evoked potential(EP) and cognitive
              >event-related potential(ERP) assessments of meditative practice
              >also reflect variegated results. Some reliable meditation-related
              >EEG frequency effects for theta and alpha activity,as well as EEG
              >coherence and ERP component changes,have been observed.
              >Positronemissionto mography( PET)and functional magnetic
              >resonance imaging(fMRI) studies are beginning to refine the
              >neuroelectric data by suggesting possible neural loci for meditation
              >effects, although how and where such practice may alter the central
              >nervous system(CNS)have not yet been well characterized. The
              >current study reviews and summarizes the neuroelectric results in
              >conjunction with neuroimaging findings. Toward this end, medi-
              >tation terms and effects are defined, the results of neuroelectric
              >meditation studies are collated, and the findings are related to other
              >neuroimaging reports.
              >
              >Excerpted from Meditation
              States and Traits: EEG, ERP, and
              >Neuroimaging Studies
              >http://www.mindandl ife.org/sri06. reading.lists/ saron01.pdf
              >
              >I've uploaded a copy to the Files section of the forum.
              >
              >Happiness and Ease to you all,
              >Nirodha (Bill Gray)
              >
              >--- End forwarded message ---
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >----------- --------- --------- ----
              > Do you Yahoo!?
              >Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >----------- --------- --------- ----
              >Do you Yahoo!?
              > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

            • Shankar Iyer/Personal Mails
              Dear Des: I also thought, like you, that how can some smartass tell me how to live my life . But you can get this answer only when you meet a true Guru.
              Message 6 of 6 , Aug 10, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Dear Des:
                 
                I also thought, like you, that how can "some smartass  tell me
                how to live my life".  But you can get this answer only when you meet a true Guru.
                Till then I also thought like you. Really. Only experience would tell the difference.
                 
                And for the Indian sounding word. I could not find an equivalent English word for
                Sanskaras.  The closest meaning would be: impressions gathered/carried on
                over several births.
                 
                A Guru cannot be equated with "a smartass". There is this question asked to
                a sage, that if God and Guru stand together, whom should the disciple
                prostrate before first. The sage answered that the Guru should be the first.
                Such is the importance of the Guru.
                 
                Well Des, your opinion is yours, and mine is mine!!
                 
                Best wishes.
                 
                Shankar Iyer


                Des Brittain <desbrittain@...> wrote:
                I don't bump into too many Gurus where I live so I guess i will just have to
                carry on doing what I do without the benefit of some smartass who thinks he
                can tell me how to live my life.

                Meditation is so simple. Just sit and count up to ten. Count every outbreath
                and concentrate on that. Try not to wander away with other thoughts, just
                keep coming back to the count. At the tenth count say, Dear God and then
                start again at one. Keep doing this for about twenty minutes to half an hour
                once or twice a day. Things will happen and you will get better at it. You
                will be guided from within. You will be shown what to do. Believe me. It's
                not complicated. Keep it simple.

                Keep doing this week after week and your life will change for the better.
                Things will flow and little coincidences will start to happen. You will know
                instinctively what to do. It's great.

                That's all you need to know for now. Further knowledge will come as you
                require it.

                Have a nice day! (no need for daft sounding Indian words either)

                >From: Shankar Iyer/Personal Mails <ksiyer_idmc@ yahoo.com>
                >Reply-To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
                >To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
                >Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Fwd: Meditation States and
                >Traits: EEG, ERP, and Neuroimaging Studies
                >Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 04:46:52 -0700 (PDT)
                >
                >Dear all:
                >
                > I saw quite a debate on meditational systems. Commonly understood,
                >healthy debates are good for intellectual growth. However (my personal
                >experience) I feel that debate on meditation/meditati on system does not
                >help much, except in some cases. It rather creates confusion.
                >
                > I suppose if you have a living Guru, and if he is a real Guru, just go
                >by him without debating. Progress is definite. Progress can be felt. I
                >still would like to go by the maxim that one must not question his Guru. He
                >is simply right. However, repeat, however, the Guru must be a Guru in the
                >right sense of the term. True to the meaning of Guru in letter and spirit.
                >Many times, we educated and so called professional people debate, try and
                >find pin holes and think that the Guru may or may not be right and that we
                >must simply follow our instincts or go by logical conclusions. I have
                >found out that a spontaneous reponse from a Guru may be correct and a
                >continued logical and intellectually thought out response may not be.
                >
                > In so far as meditation is concerned, one gets into a given meditational
                >system on the basis of his sanskaras. So if a person is into a given kind
                >of meditation system, he is there because of the sanskaras. Everybody has
                >his own sanskaras. Therefore different people would most certainly follow
                >different paths. So there would be different ways, leading to the same
                >destination.
                >
                > People do meditation for several reasons, the two predominent reasons
                >being a. good health b. spiritual attainment. If one is into meditation
                >purely for spiritual reasons, then just go by the Guru without
                >debate/questioning . Nike's maxim: Just do it is perhaps, in my opinion, the
                >only way out. No debate, just do it.
                >
                > Shankar Iyer
                >
                >Shankar Iyer/Personal Mails <ksiyer_idmc@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                > Dear all:
                >
                > Re: EEG etc.
                >
                > While there many be scientific methods to analyse and evaluate effects
                >of meditation, etc., which as of now, I suppose, have to be taken to
                >further heights, well developed clarivoyants (and trustworthy ones, like
                >your close friends) can help.
                >
                > For example, my wife went through a CT Scan when she had breast cancer.
                >The scan took 2 odd hours in a sophisticated Siemens machine. This was
                >analysed and put down on paper (the results). I had a surgeon friend (a
                >very close friend) who analysed this report further. We called in another
                >friend (he was also a very close friend) who was a highly developed
                >clarivoyant. This guy was not shown the CT scan report. This clarivoyant
                >just closed his eyes and within 15 odd minutes gave a complete report of my
                >wife's bodily position. You will be surprised to know that the CT scan
                >report matched with what this clarivoyant said. So the effects of
                >meditation need not necessarily be attested/checked up through "material"
                >methods.
                >
                > Another example: I took up meditation through the Shaktipat system
                >around 1999. I was engaged in very intense meditation. This clarivoyant
                >guy (above mentioned) was not knowing that I am into meditation. I chanced
                >to meet him some time in 2002. Immediately upon seeing me, the guy said:
                >"what are you doing now a days? Are you in some kind of deep meditation
                >system?". I did not reply. He came out with details of how my chakras
                >were prior to meditation and post meditation and what was the result of the
                >Kundalini jagrati.". He was correct.
                >
                >
                >
                > Shankar Iyer
                >
                >dakarmesh <dakarmesh@yahoo. com> wrote:
                >
                >--- In meditation_research @yahoogroups. com, "Nirodha (Bill Gray)"
                ><nirodhasati@ ...> wrote:
                >
                >Hi friends,
                >
                >I just come across the following recent study that I felt might be
                >useful for us all to review:
                >
                >Meditation States and Traits: EEG,ERP,and Neuroimaging Studies
                >B.Rael Cahn John Polich
                >
                >Overview and Definitions
                >Electroencephalogr aphic(EEG) studies of meditative states
                >have been conducted for almost 50 years, but no clear consensus
                >about the underlying neurophysiological changes from meditation
                >practice has emerged. Sensory evoked potential(EP) and cognitive
                >event-related potential(ERP) assessments of meditative practice
                >also reflect variegated results. Some reliable meditation-related
                >EEG frequency effects for theta and alpha activity,as well as EEG
                >coherence and ERP component changes,have been observed.
                >Positronemissionto mography( PET)and functional magnetic
                >resonance imaging(fMRI) studies are beginning to refine the
                >neuroelectric data by suggesting possible neural loci for meditation
                >effects, although how and where such practice may alter the central
                >nervous system(CNS)have not yet been well characterized. The
                >current study reviews and summarizes the neuroelectric results in
                >conjunction with neuroimaging findings. Toward this end, medi-
                >tation terms and effects are defined, the results of neuroelectric
                >meditation studies are collated, and the findings are related to other
                >neuroimaging reports.
                >
                >Excerpted from Meditation States and Traits: EEG, ERP, and
                >Neuroimaging Studies
                >http://www.mindandl ife.org/sri06. reading.lists/ saron01.pdf
                >
                >I've uploaded a copy to the Files section of the forum.
                >
                >Happiness and Ease to you all,
                >Nirodha (Bill Gray)
                >
                >--- End forwarded message ---
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
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