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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Meditation is Universal - - -

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  • troy galloway
    Thank you Ben for putting this so perfectly. You do Know my friend and your world will always be brighter by seeing the whole picture and not just a corner
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 2, 2006
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      Thank you Ben for putting this so perfectly. You do Know my friend and your world will always be brighter by seeing the whole picture and not just a corner

      Benjamin Buehne <benbuehne@...> wrote:
      Prakki Surya,
      I understand what you are saying. However, the world
      does not move to the beat of just 1 drum. What might
      be right for you, may not be right for some. Jesus,
      Siddhartha, Krishna, and most every other religious
      figured speaked of purity. Clarity of mind, not
      sacrificing the divine for the earthly, and love.
      Relationships with the divine are personal.

      As far as I understand, you are of the belief that
      there is but 1 way to achieve this end and that is
      through Yoga. However many people have found the same
      results different ways. Should we stifle these other
      practices that have done so much good because they
      were not mentioned by name? There are many ways to
      become more in touch with the divine, and Yoga is one
      of them. Some are better at 1 than another... and so
      if they can have this connection using a particular
      method it is still good, for it is the connection that
      is good rather than any 1 practice.

      There are many ways to achieve the same end... they
      can all be lumped into the same group... meditation
      practices, which Yoga is a part of. Just because you
      have been taught that Yoga is the only way, or you
      hadn't had success using other methods, does not make
      it true. The truth is the truth... even if the truth
      is not known by anyone on earth.

      A story to demonstraight. ..
      One day a boat sank. All new how to swim but one
      unlearned man. As he struggled he found himself able
      to stay afloat but the method was unconventional. He
      would simply lay there and take deep breaths, barely
      keeping his mouth above the surface of the water.

      The others around chided him. "That is not how it is
      done. Look at me, I can teach you." He knew his way
      worked so he continued to do it even though the others
      around were looking down their noses, as they had
      their entire heads above water.

      However, as time passed, all the others got tired.
      The man who simply floated stated... "look here I can
      teach you" But no one would learn from pride.

      After a while they were picked up by a boat and the
      man was made fun of. The others thought he was
      foolish for not being able to learn to swim and made
      fun of how he looked in the water. Hearing this he
      addressed them "Look at you huffing and puffing. Here
      I stand refreshed. Who now looks foolish? Ridicule
      me if you wish, but I stand here able to help row the
      boat, as much alive as all of you."

      Basicly there is more than 1 way to achieve the same
      end. Both styles had their advantages. Those
      swimming could see for help, and those who floated
      could conserve their energy. Both allowed them to not
      drown. But you see, floating worked for him. In
      addition, if he was taught how it always was taught
      they would have struggled rowing the boat ashore.
      Change isn't always bad. It was that the man was able
      to stay above the water that was important, not the
      way he was able to stay above the water.

      For such reasons, I will respectfully disagree,
      Ben
      --- prakki surya <dattapr2000@ yahoo.com> wrote:

      > dear Ben & friends
      >
      > sorry for the late reply. First i want to reply
      > the objections by our other two friends. My straight
      > forward question to them. Did Lord Jesus preached
      > about meditation in the Bible? Infact even Lord
      > Krishna did not preach about meditation in the Gita.
      > I am sorry to say that this meditation was
      > introduced middle age Indians who were unable to
      > cross their family bonds and so failed to succeed in
      > Yoga.
      >
      > They wanted to cover their in ability by twisting
      > the very concept of yoga. The family bonds were
      > removed from the concept and only wheels or lotus
      > flowers are left fixed. Now, they close the eyes and
      > say that they have seen the lotus flowers or wheels,
      > which are only imaginary. Now they cross these
      > wheels by their imaginary “Kundalini” and say that
      > they have succeeded in Yoga. These blind teachers
      > are also not to be blamed, because they were trained
      > like that by their blind teachers. This
      > misinterpretation was done long time back and hence,
      > even at the time of Krishna, He told that yoga was
      > lost since a long time.
      >
      > We cannot catch those original culprits, who were
      > the top most twisting masters and so the present
      > tradition also cannot be blamed. Only rectification
      > is the way left over. Some say that they see light,
      > which is only an imagination. After all, the mind is
      > a form of energy and on its concentration imaginary
      > light can be imagined. Instead of such a week light,
      > you better see a strong light with your open eyes.
      > What is the use of these imaginary lights and
      > colours, without achieving the Lord through your
      > love, which excels the various worldly, loves.
      >
      > I pity the foreigners, who are trapped in this
      > false imaginary line of yoga, who are wasting their
      > precious lifetime and energy. In fact, they are the
      > best to succeed in yoga, if the reality of the yoga
      > is exposed. Their family bonds are very weak and
      > their love towards God is real, which is proved by
      > their huge sacrifice of money to God’s work. Money
      > is the fruit of work and its sacrifice for God’s
      > work is “Karma phala tyaga” as mentioned in Gita.
      > Again, the middle age Indians twisted this word
      > “Karma phala tyaga” as sacrifice of the fruit of the
      > work like praying God instead of sacrifice of money.
      >
      >
      > The reason was that these Indians were unable to
      > sacrifice money to God due to their strong love on
      > their children. Foreigners ask their children to
      > earn after certain age. Indians store money even for
      > ten generations and still continue to store only.
      > Since prayers, meditation and knowledge are very
      > much diverted to God, India was blessed by God with
      > good language, good mind and good knowledge.
      >
      > Since foreigners are good in sacrifice, God
      > blessed them with good wealth. Even Indian spiritual
      > centres were strongly funded by foreigners only.
      > Swami Vivekananda cried, “Why my India suffers with
      > poverty in spite of so much spiritual knowledge?”
      > Sacrifice of money (Karma phala tyaga) and sacrifice
      > of work (karma Sanyasa) put together constitute the
      > God’s service, which is the real Yoga (real proof of
      > love) called “Karma yoga” in Gita. Foreigners are
      > the best in this karma yoga and so they easily
      > succeed in yoga. Throughout Gita, this karma yoga
      > was explained as yoga and wheels or lotus flowers
      > are not at all mentioned.
      >
      >
      > At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami
      > surya
      > http://www.universa l-spirituality. org
      >
      >
      > troy galloway <trgallo12000@ yahoo.com> wrote:
      > Ben , Des is right on. Follow your heart
      > and you will only do the right thing. People have a
      > tendency to follow others. This isn't wrong if they
      > can't or just don't hear or trust themselves. You my
      > friend sound as you do know
      >
      > Des Brittain <desbrittain@ hotmail.com> wrote: Ben,
      > just keep meditating and allowing what happens to
      > happen. You are on
      > the right path. Pay no attention to people who
      > insist on talking in flowery
      > language and who seem to believe that Indian gurus
      > and religion own the
      > patent on the inner life of us all. The answers will
      > come from within.
      > Yeehaaaaaaa! Des Brittain.
      >
      >
      > >From: Benjamin Buehne
      > >Reply-To:
      > meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
      > >To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
      > >Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America]
      > Meditation is Universal - - -
      > >Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 10:54:49 -0700 (PDT)
      > >
      > >
      > >I am not asking for all to ask for powers from
      > >anything, simply pointing out that the experience
      > has
      > >the ability to unify. Encouragement to spread the
      > >practice. You believe this is wrong?
      > >
      > >--- prakki surya wrote:
      > >
      > > > True devotees never do penance for Siddhis.
      > Radha,
      > > > Gopikas did not achieve any Siddhis. Demons like
      > > > Raavaa, Indrajit etc., did penance for only
      > Siddhis
      > > > i.e., to achieve powers from Lord only. These
      > > > Siddhis did not finally save them. But Radha,
      > > > Gopikas etc., could get highest loka and these
      > are
      > > > permanent also.
      > > >
      > > > Generally people are interested in the powers of
      > > > Lord to get self-enjoyment in the form of
      > visions,
      > > > telepathy, astral travel, power of curing
      > diseases
      > > > etc….This is not the true path of devotion. The
      > very
      > > > meaning of devotion is true love on Lord. People
      > > > aspire for spiritual growth. But the meaning of
      > > > their spiritual growth is more visions, get
      > powers
      > > > for curing diseases of self and other to get
      > name
      > > > and fame, perform miracles etc. These people
      > have
      > > > not realised the Lord & His true devotion.
      > Spiritual
      > > > growth itself means increase of devotion on Lord
      > day
      > > > by day by getting more and more divine
      > knowledge.
      > > > They do not have any trace of devotion on Lord.
      > But
      > > > they pretend that they have devotion in front of
      > > > Lord for getting His powers. No human
      > incarnation
      > > > had ever encouraged such things.
      > > >
      > > > The reason for interest in His powers only (and
      > > > not in Lord) is greed for fame, selfishness etc.
      > > > Such people end up in such gurus only who
      > encourage
      > > > these type of activities. They can never come
      > near
      > > > to Satguru (Lord in Human form like Jesus,
      > Krishna,
      > > > Mohd. Prophet, Buddha …..) who do not encourage
      > such
      > > > activities. The real devotee are (like Gopikas,
      > > > Hanuman, Swami Vivekananda, Prahlada ....)
      > diamonds
      > > > and remaining are like gravel stones. Lord is
      > also
      > > > not bothered of gravel stones, which will be in
      > > > majority. Jesus also said the true path leading
      > to
      > > > Lord is very very narrow with full of thorns
      > with 2
      > > > or 3 people.
      > > >
      > > > Once one got used to these powers, name, fame
      > etc.
      > > > it is difficult to come out of this. This is a
      > sort
      > > > of addiction. But Lord is not pleased with him
      > and
      > > > will punish him latter. This is definitely not
      > the
      > > > right path. Satguru (Lord in human form) also
      > gives
      > > > divine visions to disciples to improve their
      > faith.
      > > > Finally the divine knowledge only helps in
      > getting
      > > > the real devotion towards the lord. As long as a
      > > > disciple wants to use his guru for his selfish
      > ends,
      > > > he will get into that type of guru, who will
      > utilise
      > > > his services for his benefit.
      > > >
      > > > At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami
      > > > surya
      >
      === message truncated ===

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    • prakki surya
      To please the Lord you have to surrender your words by singing about Him, the mind in His devotion and the intelligence in His discussions. However these three
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 5, 2006
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        The rich man who has no boundaries in his ambition to take the wealth of the Lord in unlimited quantities must realise that his effort is useless and waste. The reason is that one has to leave all the excess of wealth here only and his family members will not share his sin. They never provoked him to earn infinitely for their sake. Therefore he is the only responsible person for all the sins. He should retain the required wealth for all the needs only (Yavanartha Udapane—Gita). If he analyses the family bonds, they are proved as unreal dramatic bonds. Therefore a rich man should donate the excess of wealth to the Lord in human form for His mission. If the human incarnation is not recognised, the second address of Lord is a real devotee. The Lord dwells in the hearts of a real devotee. But people are donating to temples seeing the statues without analysing the background management. If the manager is neither the human incarnation nor a real devotee, the sacrifice of your money is a waste.
         
        The sacrifice of money applies even to the ordinary human beings. No doubt these people are earning the money for their basic needs only. Some earn a little more to utilise for the unforeseen problems in the future. Storing the wealth for such purpose is also justified. Such storing is not wrong. Some people earn just up to the mark. Some people earn even below the mark. All these people need not do any sacrifice of their money to the Lord, because the very basic point is that the Lord neither needs your money nor your work for His mission. Just His will is sufficient to carry on His mission (Name Karmaphale Spruha—Gita). But all these ordinary human beings also are wasting some money in the name of entertainments. All the entertainments will end only in loss and misery. Therefore you are wasting, your time, energy and money in the entertainments, which are ending in loss only.
         
        For example if you see a picture, you have lost the time and money and at the end you experience the loss of the energy also as weakness. Similarly reading the novels and doing unnecessary gossips. Either you utilise your time, energy and money for basic needs or store it for future needs. Instead of wasting for the entertainments, which end in loss (Duhkha Yonaya Evate—Gita), you convert this wastage into divine wealth for getting the grace of Lord which protects you here as well as there. This is a beneficial programme for you only and not for the Lord.
         
        At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami
        surya


        Benjamin Buehne <benbuehne@...> wrote:
        Prakki Surya,
        I understand what you are saying. However, the world
        does not move to the beat of just 1 drum. What might
        be right for you, may not be right for some. Jesus,
        Siddhartha, Krishna, and most every other religious
        figured speaked of purity. Clarity of mind, not
        sacrificing the divine for the earthly, and love.
        Relationships with the divine are personal.

        As far as I understand, you are of the belief that
        there is but 1 way to achieve this end and that is
        through Yoga. However many people have found the same
        results different ways. Should we stifle these other
        practices that have done so much good because they
        were not mentioned by name? There are many ways to
        become more in touch with the divine, and Yoga is one
        of them. Some are better at 1 than another... and so
        if they can have this connection using a particular
        method it is still good, for it is the connection that
        is good rather than any 1 practice.

        There are many ways to achieve the same end... they
        can all be lumped into the same group... meditation
        practices, which Yoga is a part of. Just because you
        have been taught that Yoga is the only way, or you
        hadn't had success using other methods, does not make
        it true. The truth is the truth... even if the truth
        is not known by anyone on earth.

        A story to demonstraight. ..
        One day a boat sank. All new how to swim but one
        unlearned man. As he struggled he found himself able
        to stay afloat but the method was unconventional. He
        would simply lay there and take deep breaths, barely
        keeping his mouth above the surface of the water.

        The others around chided him. "That is not how it is
        done. Look at me, I can teach you." He knew his way
        worked so he continued to do it even though the others
        around were looking down their noses, as they had
        their entire heads above water.

        However, as time passed, all the others got tired.
        The man who simply floated stated... "look here I can
        teach you" But no one would learn from pride.

        After a while they were picked up by a boat and the
        man was made fun of. The others thought he was
        foolish for not being able to learn to swim and made
        fun of how he looked in the water. Hearing this he
        addressed them "Look at you huffing and puffing. Here
        I stand refreshed. Who now looks foolish? Ridicule
        me if you wish, but I stand here able to help row the
        boat, as much alive as all of you."

        Basicly there is more than 1 way to achieve the same
        end. Both styles had their advantages. Those
        swimming could see for help, and those who floated
        could conserve their energy. Both allowed them to not
        drown. But you see, floating worked for him. In
        addition, if he was taught how it always was taught
        they would have struggled rowing the boat ashore.
        Change isn't always bad. It was that the man was able
        to stay above the water that was important, not the
        way he was able to stay above the water.

        For such reasons, I will respectfully disagree,
        Ben
        .


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      • prakki surya
        Everybody is devising their own path saying that there are many ways to reach the Lord. This path generally will be: Enjoy the world in family bonds and at the
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 5, 2006
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          Everybody is devising their own path saying that there are many ways to reach the Lord. This path generally will be: Enjoy the world in family bonds and at the time of death, get the Moksha or liberation. Everybody aspires the highest fruit through the easiest way. The easiest way is the path of knowledge, which does not require any sacrifice. The highest fruit is to become the very Lord right now from this moment onwards. The path that pleases the Lord was already preached by Krishna in Gita and Jesus in Bible.
           
          Nobody is neither interested to know what was preached by Krishna or Jesus nor ready to identify & learn from the preaching of a Satguru. It is a sheer illusion to conclude that our path is true based on our 'the little knowledge'.
           
          If you see the life of any real devotee the truth will be known automatically. If anybody observes the life history of any real devotee, like disciples of Jesus, Hanuman, Gopikas, Prahlada, Sabari, Kannappa, Tyagaraja etc., this knowledge should be in line with the way they lead their lives. This was brought out by Datta Swamiji excellently by which nobody can deny any iota of this divine knowledge.
           
          The Veda, the Bible & the Gita are the authorities. Other Sanskrit verses written by blind scholars are not authorities.  Anybody who has learnt Sanskrit can write a verse.  Even Charvaka, the atheist, wrote Sanskrit verses.
           
          At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami
          surya


          troy galloway <trgallo12000@...> wrote:
          Thank you Ben for putting this so perfectly. You do Know my friend and your world will always be brighter by seeing the whole picture and not just a corner

          Benjamin Buehne <benbuehne@yahoo. com> wrote:
          Prakki Surya,
          I understand what you are saying. However, the world
          does not move to the beat of just 1 drum. What might
          be right for you, may not be right for some. Jesus,
          Siddhartha, Krishna, and most every other religious
          figured speaked of purity. Clarity of mind, not
          sacrificing the divine for the earthly, and love.
          Relationships with the divine are personal.

          As far as I understand, you are of the belief that
          there is but 1 way to achieve this end and that is
          through Yoga. However many people have found the same
          results different ways. Should we stifle these other
          practices that have done so much good because they
          were not mentioned by name? There are many ways to
          become more in touch with the divine, and Yoga is one
          of them. Some are better at 1 than another... and so
          if they can have this connection using a particular
          method it is still good, for it is the connection that
          is good rather than any 1 practice.
          .


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        • Benjamin Buehne
          This is a point I can agree with. It is true that our actions are very important, and that what you don t do is as important as what you do. However, action
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 5, 2006
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            This is a point I can agree with. It is true that our
            actions are very important, and that what you don't do
            is as important as what you do. However, action is
            meaningless without clarity. For you see, without
            that clarity it is difficult for your actions to have
            meaning, and even more difficult for the some of your
            actions to have meaning.

            If you want a to build a canoe out of a log, it is the
            clarity of what the finished product should be that is
            important. For you can chop off wood all you want,
            without the clarity of the finished product all you
            will end up with is a pile of wood chips. So it is
            with our actions and sacrifice. Knowledge may be but
            1% of what pleases god but without it how can the
            other 99% be achieved?

            You bring this up yourself with giving money as
            sacrifice. You point out that giving to the wrong
            cause pleases no one. You see, it is clarity that
            will help you figure out what is the correct and
            incorrect cause.



            --- prakki surya <dattapr2000@...> wrote:

            > To please the Lord you have to surrender your words
            > by singing about Him, the mind in His devotion and
            > the intelligence in His discussions. However these
            > three constitute only 1% of the total sacrifice and
            > this is called as theoretical sacrifice. The
            > sacrifice of your work and fruit of work constitutes
            > 99% of sacrifice, which is called as practical
            > sacrifice. The practical sacrifice should be done to
            > the most deserving Lord in human form if recognised
            > properly. The reason is that all this wealth belongs
            > to the Lord only since He is the creator of the
            > entire universe. All this wealth is His immovable
            > property and all the living beings are His movable
            > property. You are a part and parcel of His movable
            > property. You are supposed to take any amount from
            > His infinite wealth for your basic needs, the
            > boundary of which cannot be infinite.
            >
            > The rich man who has no boundaries in his ambition
            > to take the wealth of the Lord in unlimited
            > quantities must realise that his effort is useless
            > and waste. The reason is that one has to leave all
            > the excess of wealth here only and his family
            > members will not share his sin. They never provoked
            > him to earn infinitely for their sake. Therefore he
            > is the only responsible person for all the sins. He
            > should retain the required wealth for all the needs
            > only (Yavanartha Udapane—Gita). If he analyses the
            > family bonds, they are proved as unreal dramatic
            > bonds. Therefore a rich man should donate the excess
            > of wealth to the Lord in human form for His mission.
            > If the human incarnation is not recognised, the
            > second address of Lord is a real devotee. The Lord
            > dwells in the hearts of a real devotee. But people
            > are donating to temples seeing the statues without
            > analysing the background management. If the manager
            > is neither the human incarnation nor a real devotee,
            > the sacrifice of your
            > money is a waste.
            >
            > The sacrifice of money applies even to the
            > ordinary human beings. No doubt these people are
            > earning the money for their basic needs only. Some
            > earn a little more to utilise for the unforeseen
            > problems in the future. Storing the wealth for such
            > purpose is also justified. Such storing is not
            > wrong. Some people earn just up to the mark. Some
            > people earn even below the mark. All these people
            > need not do any sacrifice of their money to the
            > Lord, because the very basic point is that the Lord
            > neither needs your money nor your work for His
            > mission. Just His will is sufficient to carry on His
            > mission (Name Karmaphale Spruha—Gita). But all these
            > ordinary human beings also are wasting some money in
            > the name of entertainments. All the entertainments
            > will end only in loss and misery. Therefore you are
            > wasting, your time, energy and money in the
            > entertainments, which are ending in loss only.
            >
            > For example if you see a picture, you have lost
            > the time and money and at the end you experience the
            > loss of the energy also as weakness. Similarly
            > reading the novels and doing unnecessary gossips.
            > Either you utilise your time, energy and money for
            > basic needs or store it for future needs. Instead of
            > wasting for the entertainments, which end in loss
            > (Duhkha Yonaya Evate—Gita), you convert this wastage
            > into divine wealth for getting the grace of Lord
            > which protects you here as well as there. This is a
            > beneficial programme for you only and not for the
            > Lord.
            >
            > At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami
            > surya
            > www.universal-spirituality.org
            >
            >
            > Benjamin Buehne <benbuehne@...> wrote:
            > Prakki Surya,
            > I understand what you are saying. However, the world
            > does not move to the beat of just 1 drum. What might
            > be right for you, may not be right for some. Jesus,
            > Siddhartha, Krishna, and most every other religious
            > figured speaked of purity. Clarity of mind, not
            > sacrificing the divine for the earthly, and love.
            > Relationships with the divine are personal.
            >
            > As far as I understand, you are of the belief that
            > there is but 1 way to achieve this end and that is
            > through Yoga. However many people have found the
            > same
            > results different ways. Should we stifle these other
            > practices that have done so much good because they
            > were not mentioned by name? There are many ways to
            > become more in touch with the divine, and Yoga is
            > one
            > of them. Some are better at 1 than another... and so
            > if they can have this connection using a particular
            > method it is still good, for it is the connection
            > that
            > is good rather than any 1 practice.
            >
            > There are many ways to achieve the same end... they
            > can all be lumped into the same group... meditation
            > practices, which Yoga is a part of. Just because you
            > have been taught that Yoga is the only way, or you
            > hadn't had success using other methods, does not
            > make
            > it true. The truth is the truth... even if the truth
            > is not known by anyone on earth.
            >
            > A story to demonstraight...
            > One day a boat sank. All new how to swim but one
            > unlearned man. As he struggled he found himself able
            > to stay afloat but the method was unconventional. He
            > would simply lay there and take deep breaths, barely
            > keeping his mouth above the surface of the water.
            >
            > The others around chided him. "That is not how it is
            > done. Look at me, I can teach you." He knew his way
            > worked so he continued to do it even though the
            > others
            > around were looking down their noses, as they had
            > their entire heads above water.
            >
            > However, as time passed, all the others got tired.
            > The man who simply floated stated... "look here I
            > can
            > teach you" But no one would learn from pride.
            >
            > After a while they were picked up by a boat and the
            > man was made fun of. The others thought he was
            > foolish for not being able to learn to swim and made
            > fun of how he looked in the water. Hearing this he
            > addressed them "Look at you huffing and puffing.
            > Here
            > I stand refreshed. Who now looks foolish? Ridicule
            > me if you wish, but I stand here able to help row
            > the
            > boat, as much alive as all of you."
            >
            > Basicly there is more than 1 way to achieve the same
            > end. Both styles had their advantages. Those
            > swimming could see for help, and those who floated
            > could conserve their energy. Both allowed them to
            > not
            > drown. But you see, floating worked for him. In
            > addition, if he was taught how it always was taught
            > they would have struggled rowing the boat ashore.
            > Change isn't always bad. It was that the man was
            > able
            > to stay above the water that was important, not the
            > way he was able to stay above the water.
            >
            > For such reasons, I will respectfully disagree,
            > Ben
            >
            >
            > .
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out
            > the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups.


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