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Meditation is Universal

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  • Benjamin Buehne
    Hello All, I was meditating yesterday and had yet another experience, afterwords I was inspired to write this. It occurred to me how naturally universal
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 29, 2006
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      Hello All,
      I was meditating yesterday and had yet another
      experience, afterwords I was inspired to write this.
      It occurred to me how naturally universal Meditation
      is, in particular, the experience. It was seen in
      cultures worldwide. It is seen in almost every major
      religion including the Roman Catholic Church and
      Islam.

      Universally it is seen as a way to get closer to
      God, reguardless of what you believe God is. The
      experiences are the same. Meditation and it's
      effects, is one of the few universal experiences.
      When you eat fish, what you taste is different from
      what your neighbor tastes. When you see a cloud, you
      may see a different image from that of your son. When
      you hear a song, you may consider it unnerving while
      your teacher finds it relaxing. When you smell a
      perfume you may find it beautiful while your boss may
      hate it. When you wear a sweater it may feel itchy to
      you and warm to your partner. Every singal sense we
      have is subjective to the individual.

      It is also difficult to find the Universality in
      experiences. You may enjoy rollercoasters while
      others are terrified. Some enjoy basketball while
      others find it rough. The same goes for professions
      as we each have our individual purposes.

      Meditation may be one of the few Universals. For
      the experienced, the experience of Meditation is
      almost always the same. This is not true for almost
      any other experience a person can have.

      Being it is so Universal, and considered
      spiritual Meditation can help us in a time of
      conflict. Conflict in the world is escalating on
      personal and global scales. It is a shame, but a
      major part of this conflict is religion. 1 of the few
      things all can agree on is this meditation experience.

      I ask you, can this not be used? We have all
      found that meditation can be a tool for us, a way to
      help us controll our minds. It is a tool for good.
      Should religions around recognize this... all would
      have 1 thing to agree on. In fact, almost all already
      agree on this but do not realize it. Do agreements
      not unify?

      I ask you, if you were to go to respective
      churches to ask these questions... what is the good
      that could be accomplished. If it were to spread
      through religions... how much good would it do on a
      personal and global level? This is the power of the
      trade we have learned or are learning. Treat it with
      the respect of an atomic bomb... for like an atomic
      bomb it's effects could spread through the world.

      Thank you for reading,
      Ben

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    • prakki surya
      True devotees never do penance for Siddhis. Radha, Gopikas did not achieve any Siddhis. Demons like Raavaa, Indrajit etc., did penance for only Siddhis i.e.,
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 30, 2006
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        True devotees never do penance for Siddhis. Radha, Gopikas did not achieve any Siddhis. Demons like Raavaa, Indrajit etc., did penance for only Siddhis i.e., to achieve powers from Lord only. These Siddhis did not finally save them. But Radha, Gopikas etc., could get highest loka and these are permanent also.
         
        Generally people are interested in the powers of Lord to get self-enjoyment in the form of visions, telepathy, astral travel, power of curing diseases etc….This is not the true path of devotion. The very meaning of devotion is true love on Lord. People aspire for spiritual growth. But the meaning of their spiritual growth is more visions, get powers for curing diseases of self and other to get name and fame, perform miracles etc. These people have not realised the Lord & His true devotion. Spiritual growth itself means increase of devotion on Lord day by day by getting more and more divine knowledge. They do not have any trace of devotion on Lord. But they pretend that they have devotion in front of Lord for getting His powers. No human incarnation had ever encouraged such things.
         
        The reason for interest in His powers only (and not in Lord) is greed for fame, selfishness etc. Such people end up in such gurus only who encourage these type of activities. They can never come near to Satguru (Lord in Human form like Jesus, Krishna, Mohd. Prophet, Buddha …..) who do not encourage such activities. The real devotee are (like Gopikas, Hanuman, Swami Vivekananda, Prahlada ....) diamonds and remaining are like gravel stones. Lord is also not bothered of gravel stones, which will be in majority. Jesus also said the true path leading to Lord is very very narrow with full of thorns with 2 or 3 people.
         
        Once one got used to these powers, name, fame etc. it is difficult to come out of this. This is a sort of addiction. But Lord is not pleased with him and will punish him latter. This is definitely not the right path. Satguru (Lord in human form) also gives divine visions to disciples to improve their faith. Finally the divine knowledge only helps in getting the real devotion towards the lord. As long as a disciple wants to use his guru for his selfish ends, he will get into that type of guru, who will utilise his services for his benefit.
         
        At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami
        surya


        Benjamin Buehne <benbuehne@...> wrote:
        Hello All,
        I was meditating yesterday and had yet another
        experience, afterwords I was inspired to write this.
        It occurred to me how naturally universal Meditation
        is, in particular, the experience. It was seen in
        cultures worldwide. It is seen in almost every major
        religion including the Roman Catholic Church and
        Islam.

        Universally it is seen as a way to get closer to
        God, reguardless of what you believe God is. The
        experiences are the same. Meditation and it's
        effects, is one of the few universal experiences.
        When you eat fish, what you taste is different from
        what your neighbor tastes. When you see a cloud, you
        may see a different image from that of your son. When
        you hear a song, you may consider it unnerving while
        your teacher finds it relaxing. When you smell a
        perfume you may find it beautiful while your boss may
        hate it. When you wear a sweater it may feel itchy to
        you and warm to your partner. Every singal sense we
        have is subjective to the individual.

        It is also difficult to find the Universality in
        experiences. You may enjoy rollercoasters while
        others are terrified. Some enjoy basketball while
        others find it rough. The same goes for professions
        as we each have our individual purposes.
        Thank you for reading,
        Ben
        .


        Do you Yahoo!?
        Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

      • Benjamin Buehne
        I am not asking for all to ask for powers from anything, simply pointing out that the experience has the ability to unify. Encouragement to spread the
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 30, 2006
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          I am not asking for all to ask for powers from
          anything, simply pointing out that the experience has
          the ability to unify. Encouragement to spread the
          practice. You believe this is wrong?

          --- prakki surya <dattapr2000@...> wrote:

          > True devotees never do penance for Siddhis. Radha,
          > Gopikas did not achieve any Siddhis. Demons like
          > Raavaa, Indrajit etc., did penance for only Siddhis
          > i.e., to achieve powers from Lord only. These
          > Siddhis did not finally save them. But Radha,
          > Gopikas etc., could get highest loka and these are
          > permanent also.
          >
          > Generally people are interested in the powers of
          > Lord to get self-enjoyment in the form of visions,
          > telepathy, astral travel, power of curing diseases
          > etc….This is not the true path of devotion. The very
          > meaning of devotion is true love on Lord. People
          > aspire for spiritual growth. But the meaning of
          > their spiritual growth is more visions, get powers
          > for curing diseases of self and other to get name
          > and fame, perform miracles etc. These people have
          > not realised the Lord & His true devotion. Spiritual
          > growth itself means increase of devotion on Lord day
          > by day by getting more and more divine knowledge.
          > They do not have any trace of devotion on Lord. But
          > they pretend that they have devotion in front of
          > Lord for getting His powers. No human incarnation
          > had ever encouraged such things.
          >
          > The reason for interest in His powers only (and
          > not in Lord) is greed for fame, selfishness etc.
          > Such people end up in such gurus only who encourage
          > these type of activities. They can never come near
          > to Satguru (Lord in Human form like Jesus, Krishna,
          > Mohd. Prophet, Buddha …..) who do not encourage such
          > activities. The real devotee are (like Gopikas,
          > Hanuman, Swami Vivekananda, Prahlada ....) diamonds
          > and remaining are like gravel stones. Lord is also
          > not bothered of gravel stones, which will be in
          > majority. Jesus also said the true path leading to
          > Lord is very very narrow with full of thorns with 2
          > or 3 people.
          >
          > Once one got used to these powers, name, fame etc.
          > it is difficult to come out of this. This is a sort
          > of addiction. But Lord is not pleased with him and
          > will punish him latter. This is definitely not the
          > right path. Satguru (Lord in human form) also gives
          > divine visions to disciples to improve their faith.
          > Finally the divine knowledge only helps in getting
          > the real devotion towards the lord. As long as a
          > disciple wants to use his guru for his selfish ends,
          > he will get into that type of guru, who will utilise
          > his services for his benefit.
          >
          > At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami
          > surya
          > www.universal-spirituality.org
          >
          >
          > Benjamin Buehne <benbuehne@...> wrote:
          > Hello All,
          > I was meditating yesterday and had yet another
          > experience, afterwords I was inspired to write this.
          >
          > It occurred to me how naturally universal Meditation
          > is, in particular, the experience. It was seen in
          > cultures worldwide. It is seen in almost every major
          > religion including the Roman Catholic Church and
          > Islam.
          >
          > Universally it is seen as a way to get closer to
          > God, reguardless of what you believe God is. The
          > experiences are the same. Meditation and it's
          > effects, is one of the few universal experiences.
          > When you eat fish, what you taste is different from
          > what your neighbor tastes. When you see a cloud, you
          > may see a different image from that of your son.
          > When
          > you hear a song, you may consider it unnerving while
          > your teacher finds it relaxing. When you smell a
          > perfume you may find it beautiful while your boss
          > may
          > hate it. When you wear a sweater it may feel itchy
          > to
          > you and warm to your partner. Every singal sense we
          > have is subjective to the individual.
          >
          > It is also difficult to find the Universality in
          > experiences. You may enjoy rollercoasters while
          > others are terrified. Some enjoy basketball while
          > others find it rough. The same goes for professions
          > as we each have our individual purposes.
          > Thank you for reading,
          > Ben
          >
          >
          > .
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo!
          > Mail Beta.


          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          http://mail.yahoo.com
        • Des Brittain
          Ben, just keep meditating and allowing what happens to happen. You are on the right path. Pay no attention to people who insist on talking in flowery language
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 1, 2006
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            Ben,
            just keep meditating and allowing what happens to happen. You are on
            the right path. Pay no attention to people who insist on talking in flowery
            language and who seem to believe that Indian gurus and religion own the
            patent on the inner life of us all. The answers will come from within.
            Yeehaaaaaaa! Des Brittain.


            >From: Benjamin Buehne <benbuehne@...>
            >Reply-To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
            >To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Meditation is Universal - - -
            >Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 10:54:49 -0700 (PDT)
            >
            >
            >I am not asking for all to ask for powers from
            >anything, simply pointing out that the experience has
            >the ability to unify. Encouragement to spread the
            >practice. You believe this is wrong?
            >
            >--- prakki surya <dattapr2000@...> wrote:
            >
            > > True devotees never do penance for Siddhis. Radha,
            > > Gopikas did not achieve any Siddhis. Demons like
            > > Raavaa, Indrajit etc., did penance for only Siddhis
            > > i.e., to achieve powers from Lord only. These
            > > Siddhis did not finally save them. But Radha,
            > > Gopikas etc., could get highest loka and these are
            > > permanent also.
            > >
            > > Generally people are interested in the powers of
            > > Lord to get self-enjoyment in the form of visions,
            > > telepathy, astral travel, power of curing diseases
            > > etc�.This is not the true path of devotion. The very
            > > meaning of devotion is true love on Lord. People
            > > aspire for spiritual growth. But the meaning of
            > > their spiritual growth is more visions, get powers
            > > for curing diseases of self and other to get name
            > > and fame, perform miracles etc. These people have
            > > not realised the Lord & His true devotion. Spiritual
            > > growth itself means increase of devotion on Lord day
            > > by day by getting more and more divine knowledge.
            > > They do not have any trace of devotion on Lord. But
            > > they pretend that they have devotion in front of
            > > Lord for getting His powers. No human incarnation
            > > had ever encouraged such things.
            > >
            > > The reason for interest in His powers only (and
            > > not in Lord) is greed for fame, selfishness etc.
            > > Such people end up in such gurus only who encourage
            > > these type of activities. They can never come near
            > > to Satguru (Lord in Human form like Jesus, Krishna,
            > > Mohd. Prophet, Buddha �..) who do not encourage such
            > > activities. The real devotee are (like Gopikas,
            > > Hanuman, Swami Vivekananda, Prahlada ....) diamonds
            > > and remaining are like gravel stones. Lord is also
            > > not bothered of gravel stones, which will be in
            > > majority. Jesus also said the true path leading to
            > > Lord is very very narrow with full of thorns with 2
            > > or 3 people.
            > >
            > > Once one got used to these powers, name, fame etc.
            > > it is difficult to come out of this. This is a sort
            > > of addiction. But Lord is not pleased with him and
            > > will punish him latter. This is definitely not the
            > > right path. Satguru (Lord in human form) also gives
            > > divine visions to disciples to improve their faith.
            > > Finally the divine knowledge only helps in getting
            > > the real devotion towards the lord. As long as a
            > > disciple wants to use his guru for his selfish ends,
            > > he will get into that type of guru, who will utilise
            > > his services for his benefit.
            > >
            > > At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami
            > > surya
            > > www.universal-spirituality.org
            > >
            > >
            > > Benjamin Buehne <benbuehne@...> wrote:
            > > Hello All,
            > > I was meditating yesterday and had yet another
            > > experience, afterwords I was inspired to write this.
            > >
            > > It occurred to me how naturally universal Meditation
            > > is, in particular, the experience. It was seen in
            > > cultures worldwide. It is seen in almost every major
            > > religion including the Roman Catholic Church and
            > > Islam.
            > >
            > > Universally it is seen as a way to get closer to
            > > God, reguardless of what you believe God is. The
            > > experiences are the same. Meditation and it's
            > > effects, is one of the few universal experiences.
            > > When you eat fish, what you taste is different from
            > > what your neighbor tastes. When you see a cloud, you
            > > may see a different image from that of your son.
            > > When
            > > you hear a song, you may consider it unnerving while
            > > your teacher finds it relaxing. When you smell a
            > > perfume you may find it beautiful while your boss
            > > may
            > > hate it. When you wear a sweater it may feel itchy
            > > to
            > > you and warm to your partner. Every singal sense we
            > > have is subjective to the individual.
            > >
            > > It is also difficult to find the Universality in
            > > experiences. You may enjoy rollercoasters while
            > > others are terrified. Some enjoy basketball while
            > > others find it rough. The same goes for professions
            > > as we each have our individual purposes.
            > > Thank you for reading,
            > > Ben
            > >
            > >
            > > .
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ---------------------------------
            > > Do you Yahoo!?
            > > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo!
            > > Mail Beta.
            >
            >
            >__________________________________________________
            >Do You Yahoo!?
            >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            >http://mail.yahoo.com
          • troy galloway
            Ben , Des is right on. Follow your heart and you will only do the right thing. People have a tendency to follow others. This isn t wrong if they can t or just
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 2, 2006
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              Ben , Des is right on. Follow your heart and you will only do the right thing. People have a tendency to follow others. This isn't wrong if they can't or just don't hear or trust themselves. You my friend sound as you do know

              Des Brittain <desbrittain@...> wrote:
              Ben,
              just keep meditating and allowing what happens to happen. You are on
              the right path. Pay no attention to people who insist on talking in flowery
              language and who seem to believe that Indian gurus and religion own the
              patent on the inner life of us all. The answers will come from within.
              Yeehaaaaaaa! Des Brittain.


              >From: Benjamin Buehne
              >Reply-To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
              >To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Meditation is Universal - - -
              >Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 10:54:49 -0700 (PDT)
              >
              >
              >I am not asking for all to ask for powers from
              >anything, simply pointing out that the experience has
              >the ability to unify. Encouragement to spread the
              >practice. You believe this is wrong?
              >
              >--- prakki surya wrote:
              >
              > > True devotees never do penance for Siddhis. Radha,
              > > Gopikas did not achieve any Siddhis. Demons like
              > > Raavaa, Indrajit etc., did penance for only Siddhis
              > > i.e., to achieve powers from Lord only. These
              > > Siddhis did not finally save them. But Radha,
              > > Gopikas etc., could get highest loka and these are
              > > permanent also.
              > >
              > > Generally people are interested in the powers of
              > > Lord to get self-enjoyment in the form of visions,
              > > telepathy, astral travel, power of curing diseases
              > > etc….This is not the true path of devotion. The very
              > > meaning of devotion is true love on Lord. People
              > > aspire for spiritual growth. But the meaning of
              > > their spiritual growth is more visions, get powers
              > > for curing diseases of self and other to get name
              > > and fame, perform miracles etc. These people have
              > > not realised the Lord & His true devotion. Spiritual
              > > growth itself means increase of devotion on Lord day
              > > by day by getting more and more divine knowledge.
              > > They do not have any trace of devotion on Lord. But
              > > they pretend that they have devotion in front of
              > > Lord for getting His powers. No human incarnation
              > > had ever encouraged such things.
              > >
              > > The reason for interest in His powers only (and
              > > not in Lord) is greed for fame, selfishness etc.
              > > Such people end up in such gurus only who encourage
              > > these type of activities. They can never come near
              > > to Satguru (Lord in Human form like Jesus, Krishna,
              > > Mohd. Prophet, Buddha …..) who do not encourage such
              > > activities. The real devotee are (like Gopikas,
              > > Hanuman, Swami Vivekananda, Prahlada ....) diamonds
              > > and remaining are like gravel stones. Lord is also
              > > not bothered of gravel stones, which will be in
              > > majority. Jesus also said the true path leading to
              > > Lord is very very narrow with full of thorns with 2
              > > or 3 people.
              > >
              > > Once one got used to these powers, name, fame etc.
              > > it is difficult to come out of this. This is a sort
              > > of addiction. But Lord is not pleased with him and
              > > will punish him latter. This is definitely not the
              > > right path. Satguru (Lord in human form) also gives
              > > divine visions to disciples to improve their faith.
              > > Finally the divine knowledge only helps in getting
              > > the real devotion towards the lord. As long as a
              > > disciple wants to use his guru for his selfish ends,
              > > he will get into that type of guru, who will utilise
              > > his services for his benefit.
              > >
              > > At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami
              > > surya
              > > www.universal-spirituality.org
              > >
              > >
              > > Benjamin Buehne wrote:
              > > Hello All,
              > > I was meditating yesterday and had yet another
              > > experience, afterwords I was inspired to write this.
              > >
              > > It occurred to me how naturally universal Meditation
              > > is, in particular, the experience. It was seen in
              > > cultures worldwide. It is seen in almost every major
              > > religion including the Roman Catholic Church and
              > > Islam.
              > >
              > > Universally it is seen as a way to get closer to
              > > God, reguardless of what you believe God is. The
              > > experiences are the same. Meditation and it's
              > > effects, is one of the few universal experiences.
              > > When you eat fish, what you taste is different from
              > > what your neighbor tastes. When you see a cloud, you
              > > may see a different image from that of your son.
              > > When
              > > you hear a song, you may consider it unnerving while
              > > your teacher finds it relaxing. When you smell a
              > > perfume you may find it beautiful while your boss
              > > may
              > > hate it. When you wear a sweater it may feel itchy
              > > to
              > > you and warm to your partner. Every singal sense we
              > > have is subjective to the individual.
              > >
              > > It is also difficult to find the Universality in
              > > experiences. You may enjoy rollercoasters while
              > > others are terrified. Some enjoy basketball while
              > > others find it rough. The same goes for professions
              > > as we each have our individual purposes.
              > > Thank you for reading,
              > > Ben
              > >
              > >
              > > .
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ---------------------------------
              > > Do you Yahoo!?
              > > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo!
              > > Mail Beta.
              >
              >
              >__________________________________________________
              >Do You Yahoo!?
              >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              >http://mail.yahoo.com





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            • prakki surya
              dear Ben & friends sorry for the late reply. First i want to reply the objections by our other two friends. My straight forward question to them. Did Lord
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 2, 2006
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                dear Ben & friends
                 
                sorry for the late reply. First i want to reply the objections by our other two friends. My straight forward question to them. Did Lord Jesus preached about meditation in the Bible? Infact even Lord Krishna did not preach about meditation in the Gita. I am sorry to say that this meditation was introduced middle age Indians who were unable to cross their family bonds and so failed to succeed in Yoga.
                 
                They wanted to cover their in ability by twisting the very concept of yoga. The family bonds were removed from the concept and only wheels or lotus flowers are left fixed. Now, they close the eyes and say that they have seen the lotus flowers or wheels, which are only imaginary. Now they cross these wheels by their imaginary “Kundalini” and say that they have succeeded in Yoga. These blind teachers are also not to be blamed, because they were trained like that by their blind teachers. This misinterpretation was done long time back and hence, even at the time of Krishna , He told that yoga was lost since a long time.
                 
                We cannot catch those original culprits, who were the top most twisting masters and so the present tradition also cannot be blamed. Only rectification is the way left over. Some say that they see light, which is only an imagination. After all, the mind is a form of energy and on its concentration imaginary light can be imagined. Instead of such a week light, you better see a strong light with your open eyes. What is the use of these imaginary lights and colours, without achieving the Lord through your love, which excels the various worldly, loves.
                 
                I pity the foreigners, who are trapped in this false imaginary line of yoga, who are wasting their precious lifetime and energy. In fact, they are the best to succeed in yoga, if the reality of the yoga is exposed. Their family bonds are very weak and their love towards God is real, which is proved by their huge sacrifice of money to God’s work. Money is the fruit of work and its sacrifice for God’s work is “Karma phala tyaga” as mentioned in Gita. Again, the middle age Indians twisted this word “Karma phala tyaga” as sacrifice of the fruit of the work like praying God instead of sacrifice of money.
                 
                The reason was that these Indians were unable to sacrifice money to God due to their strong love on their children. Foreigners ask their children to earn after certain age. Indians store money even for ten generations and still continue to store only. Since prayers, meditation and knowledge are very much diverted to God, India was blessed by God with good language, good mind and good knowledge.
                 
                 
                At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami
                surya


                troy galloway <trgallo12000@...> wrote:
                Ben , Des is right on. Follow your heart and you will only do the right thing. People have a tendency to follow others. This isn't wrong if they can't or just don't hear or trust themselves. You my friend sound as you do know

                Des Brittain <desbrittain@ hotmail.com> wrote:
                Ben,
                just keep meditating and allowing what happens to happen. You are on
                the right path. Pay no attention to people who insist on talking in flowery
                language and who seem to believe that Indian gurus and religion own the
                patent on the inner life of us all. The answers will come from within.
                Yeehaaaaaaa! Des Brittain.


                >From: Benjamin Buehne
                >Reply-To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
                >To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
                >Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Meditation is Universal - - -
                >Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 10:54:49 -0700 (PDT)
                >
                >
                >I am not asking for all to ask for powers from
                >anything, simply pointing out that the experience has
                >the ability to unify. Encouragement to spread the
                >practice. You believe this is wrong?
                >
                >--- prakki surya wrote:
                >
                > > True devotees never do penance for Siddhis. Radha,
                > > Gopikas did not achieve any Siddhis. Demons like
                > > Raavaa, Indrajit etc., did penance for only Siddhis
                > > i.e., to achieve powers from Lord only. These
                > > Siddhis did not finally save them. But Radha,
                > > Gopikas etc., could get highest loka and these are
                > > permanent also.
                > >
                > > Generally people are interested in the powers of
                > > Lord to get self-enjoyment in the form of visions,
                > > telepathy, astral travel, power of curing diseases
                > > etc….This is not the true path of devotion. The very
                > > meaning of devotion is true love on Lord. People
                > > aspire for spiritual growth. But the meaning of
                > > their spiritual growth is more visions, get powers
                > > for curing diseases of self and other to get name
                > > and fame, perform miracles etc. These people have
                > > not realised the Lord & His true devotion. Spiritual
                > > growth itself means increase of devotion on Lord day
                > > by day by getting more and more divine knowledge.
                > > They do not have any trace of devotion on Lord. But
                > > they pretend that they have devotion in front of
                > > Lord for getting His powers. No human incarnation
                > > had ever encouraged such things.
                > >
                > > The reason for interest in His powers only (and
                > > not in Lord) is greed for fame, selfishness etc.
                > > Such people end up in such gurus only who encourage
                > > these type of activities. They can never come near
                > > to Satguru (Lord in Human form like Jesus, Krishna,
                > > Mohd. Prophet, Buddha …..) who do not encourage such
                > > activities. The real devotee are (like Gopikas,
                > > Hanuman, Swami Vivekananda, Prahlada ....) diamonds
                > > and remaining are like gravel stones. Lord is also
                > > not bothered of gravel stones, which will be in
                > > majority. Jesus also said the true path leading to
                > > Lord is very very narrow with full of thorns with 2
                > > or 3 people.
                > >
                > > Once one got used to these powers, name, fame etc.
                > > it is difficult to come out of this. This is a sort
                > > of addiction. But Lord is not pleased with him and
                > > will punish him latter. This is definitely not the
                > > right path. Satguru (Lord in human form) also gives
                > > divine visions to disciples to improve their faith.
                > > Finally the divine knowledge only helps in getting
                > > the real devotion towards the lord. As long as a
                > > disciple wants to use his guru for his selfish ends,
                > > he will get into that type of guru, who will utilise
                > > his services for his benefit.
                > >
                > > At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami
                > > surya
                > > www.universal- spirituality. org
                .


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              • Benjamin Buehne
                Prakki Surya, I understand what you are saying. However, the world does not move to the beat of just 1 drum. What might be right for you, may not be right
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 2, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Prakki Surya,
                  I understand what you are saying. However, the world
                  does not move to the beat of just 1 drum. What might
                  be right for you, may not be right for some. Jesus,
                  Siddhartha, Krishna, and most every other religious
                  figured speaked of purity. Clarity of mind, not
                  sacrificing the divine for the earthly, and love.
                  Relationships with the divine are personal.

                  As far as I understand, you are of the belief that
                  there is but 1 way to achieve this end and that is
                  through Yoga. However many people have found the same
                  results different ways. Should we stifle these other
                  practices that have done so much good because they
                  were not mentioned by name? There are many ways to
                  become more in touch with the divine, and Yoga is one
                  of them. Some are better at 1 than another... and so
                  if they can have this connection using a particular
                  method it is still good, for it is the connection that
                  is good rather than any 1 practice.

                  There are many ways to achieve the same end... they
                  can all be lumped into the same group... meditation
                  practices, which Yoga is a part of. Just because you
                  have been taught that Yoga is the only way, or you
                  hadn't had success using other methods, does not make
                  it true. The truth is the truth... even if the truth
                  is not known by anyone on earth.

                  A story to demonstraight...
                  One day a boat sank. All new how to swim but one
                  unlearned man. As he struggled he found himself able
                  to stay afloat but the method was unconventional. He
                  would simply lay there and take deep breaths, barely
                  keeping his mouth above the surface of the water.

                  The others around chided him. "That is not how it is
                  done. Look at me, I can teach you." He knew his way
                  worked so he continued to do it even though the others
                  around were looking down their noses, as they had
                  their entire heads above water.

                  However, as time passed, all the others got tired.
                  The man who simply floated stated... "look here I can
                  teach you" But no one would learn from pride.

                  After a while they were picked up by a boat and the
                  man was made fun of. The others thought he was
                  foolish for not being able to learn to swim and made
                  fun of how he looked in the water. Hearing this he
                  addressed them "Look at you huffing and puffing. Here
                  I stand refreshed. Who now looks foolish? Ridicule
                  me if you wish, but I stand here able to help row the
                  boat, as much alive as all of you."

                  Basicly there is more than 1 way to achieve the same
                  end. Both styles had their advantages. Those
                  swimming could see for help, and those who floated
                  could conserve their energy. Both allowed them to not
                  drown. But you see, floating worked for him. In
                  addition, if he was taught how it always was taught
                  they would have struggled rowing the boat ashore.
                  Change isn't always bad. It was that the man was able
                  to stay above the water that was important, not the
                  way he was able to stay above the water.

                  For such reasons, I will respectfully disagree,
                  Ben
                  --- prakki surya <dattapr2000@...> wrote:

                  > dear Ben & friends
                  >
                  > sorry for the late reply. First i want to reply
                  > the objections by our other two friends. My straight
                  > forward question to them. Did Lord Jesus preached
                  > about meditation in the Bible? Infact even Lord
                  > Krishna did not preach about meditation in the Gita.
                  > I am sorry to say that this meditation was
                  > introduced middle age Indians who were unable to
                  > cross their family bonds and so failed to succeed in
                  > Yoga.
                  >
                  > They wanted to cover their in ability by twisting
                  > the very concept of yoga. The family bonds were
                  > removed from the concept and only wheels or lotus
                  > flowers are left fixed. Now, they close the eyes and
                  > say that they have seen the lotus flowers or wheels,
                  > which are only imaginary. Now they cross these
                  > wheels by their imaginary “Kundalini” and say that
                  > they have succeeded in Yoga. These blind teachers
                  > are also not to be blamed, because they were trained
                  > like that by their blind teachers. This
                  > misinterpretation was done long time back and hence,
                  > even at the time of Krishna, He told that yoga was
                  > lost since a long time.
                  >
                  > We cannot catch those original culprits, who were
                  > the top most twisting masters and so the present
                  > tradition also cannot be blamed. Only rectification
                  > is the way left over. Some say that they see light,
                  > which is only an imagination. After all, the mind is
                  > a form of energy and on its concentration imaginary
                  > light can be imagined. Instead of such a week light,
                  > you better see a strong light with your open eyes.
                  > What is the use of these imaginary lights and
                  > colours, without achieving the Lord through your
                  > love, which excels the various worldly, loves.
                  >
                  > I pity the foreigners, who are trapped in this
                  > false imaginary line of yoga, who are wasting their
                  > precious lifetime and energy. In fact, they are the
                  > best to succeed in yoga, if the reality of the yoga
                  > is exposed. Their family bonds are very weak and
                  > their love towards God is real, which is proved by
                  > their huge sacrifice of money to God’s work. Money
                  > is the fruit of work and its sacrifice for God’s
                  > work is “Karma phala tyaga” as mentioned in Gita.
                  > Again, the middle age Indians twisted this word
                  > “Karma phala tyaga” as sacrifice of the fruit of the
                  > work like praying God instead of sacrifice of money.
                  >
                  >
                  > The reason was that these Indians were unable to
                  > sacrifice money to God due to their strong love on
                  > their children. Foreigners ask their children to
                  > earn after certain age. Indians store money even for
                  > ten generations and still continue to store only.
                  > Since prayers, meditation and knowledge are very
                  > much diverted to God, India was blessed by God with
                  > good language, good mind and good knowledge.
                  >
                  > Since foreigners are good in sacrifice, God
                  > blessed them with good wealth. Even Indian spiritual
                  > centres were strongly funded by foreigners only.
                  > Swami Vivekananda cried, “Why my India suffers with
                  > poverty in spite of so much spiritual knowledge?”
                  > Sacrifice of money (Karma phala tyaga) and sacrifice
                  > of work (karma Sanyasa) put together constitute the
                  > God’s service, which is the real Yoga (real proof of
                  > love) called “Karma yoga” in Gita. Foreigners are
                  > the best in this karma yoga and so they easily
                  > succeed in yoga. Throughout Gita, this karma yoga
                  > was explained as yoga and wheels or lotus flowers
                  > are not at all mentioned.
                  >
                  >
                  > At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami
                  > surya
                  > http://www.universal-spirituality.org
                  >
                  >
                  > troy galloway <trgallo12000@...> wrote:
                  > Ben , Des is right on. Follow your heart
                  > and you will only do the right thing. People have a
                  > tendency to follow others. This isn't wrong if they
                  > can't or just don't hear or trust themselves. You my
                  > friend sound as you do know
                  >
                  > Des Brittain <desbrittain@...> wrote: Ben,
                  > just keep meditating and allowing what happens to
                  > happen. You are on
                  > the right path. Pay no attention to people who
                  > insist on talking in flowery
                  > language and who seem to believe that Indian gurus
                  > and religion own the
                  > patent on the inner life of us all. The answers will
                  > come from within.
                  > Yeehaaaaaaa! Des Brittain.
                  >
                  >
                  > >From: Benjamin Buehne
                  > >Reply-To:
                  > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                  > >To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                  > >Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America]
                  > Meditation is Universal - - -
                  > >Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 10:54:49 -0700 (PDT)
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >I am not asking for all to ask for powers from
                  > >anything, simply pointing out that the experience
                  > has
                  > >the ability to unify. Encouragement to spread the
                  > >practice. You believe this is wrong?
                  > >
                  > >--- prakki surya wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > True devotees never do penance for Siddhis.
                  > Radha,
                  > > > Gopikas did not achieve any Siddhis. Demons like
                  > > > Raavaa, Indrajit etc., did penance for only
                  > Siddhis
                  > > > i.e., to achieve powers from Lord only. These
                  > > > Siddhis did not finally save them. But Radha,
                  > > > Gopikas etc., could get highest loka and these
                  > are
                  > > > permanent also.
                  > > >
                  > > > Generally people are interested in the powers of
                  > > > Lord to get self-enjoyment in the form of
                  > visions,
                  > > > telepathy, astral travel, power of curing
                  > diseases
                  > > > etc….This is not the true path of devotion. The
                  > very
                  > > > meaning of devotion is true love on Lord. People
                  > > > aspire for spiritual growth. But the meaning of
                  > > > their spiritual growth is more visions, get
                  > powers
                  > > > for curing diseases of self and other to get
                  > name
                  > > > and fame, perform miracles etc. These people
                  > have
                  > > > not realised the Lord & His true devotion.
                  > Spiritual
                  > > > growth itself means increase of devotion on Lord
                  > day
                  > > > by day by getting more and more divine
                  > knowledge.
                  > > > They do not have any trace of devotion on Lord.
                  > But
                  > > > they pretend that they have devotion in front of
                  > > > Lord for getting His powers. No human
                  > incarnation
                  > > > had ever encouraged such things.
                  > > >
                  > > > The reason for interest in His powers only (and
                  > > > not in Lord) is greed for fame, selfishness etc.
                  > > > Such people end up in such gurus only who
                  > encourage
                  > > > these type of activities. They can never come
                  > near
                  > > > to Satguru (Lord in Human form like Jesus,
                  > Krishna,
                  > > > Mohd. Prophet, Buddha …..) who do not encourage
                  > such
                  > > > activities. The real devotee are (like Gopikas,
                  > > > Hanuman, Swami Vivekananda, Prahlada ....)
                  > diamonds
                  > > > and remaining are like gravel stones. Lord is
                  > also
                  > > > not bothered of gravel stones, which will be in
                  > > > majority. Jesus also said the true path leading
                  > to
                  > > > Lord is very very narrow with full of thorns
                  > with 2
                  > > > or 3 people.
                  > > >
                  > > > Once one got used to these powers, name, fame
                  > etc.
                  > > > it is difficult to come out of this. This is a
                  > sort
                  > > > of addiction. But Lord is not pleased with him
                  > and
                  > > > will punish him latter. This is definitely not
                  > the
                  > > > right path. Satguru (Lord in human form) also
                  > gives
                  > > > divine visions to disciples to improve their
                  > faith.
                  > > > Finally the divine knowledge only helps in
                  > getting
                  > > > the real devotion towards the lord. As long as a
                  > > > disciple wants to use his guru for his selfish
                  > ends,
                  > > > he will get into that type of guru, who will
                  > utilise
                  > > > his services for his benefit.
                  > > >
                  > > > At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami
                  > > > surya
                  >
                  === message truncated ===


                  __________________________________________________
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                • troy galloway
                  Thank you Ben for putting this so perfectly. You do Know my friend and your world will always be brighter by seeing the whole picture and not just a corner
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 2, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thank you Ben for putting this so perfectly. You do Know my friend and your world will always be brighter by seeing the whole picture and not just a corner

                    Benjamin Buehne <benbuehne@...> wrote:
                    Prakki Surya,
                    I understand what you are saying. However, the world
                    does not move to the beat of just 1 drum. What might
                    be right for you, may not be right for some. Jesus,
                    Siddhartha, Krishna, and most every other religious
                    figured speaked of purity. Clarity of mind, not
                    sacrificing the divine for the earthly, and love.
                    Relationships with the divine are personal.

                    As far as I understand, you are of the belief that
                    there is but 1 way to achieve this end and that is
                    through Yoga. However many people have found the same
                    results different ways. Should we stifle these other
                    practices that have done so much good because they
                    were not mentioned by name? There are many ways to
                    become more in touch with the divine, and Yoga is one
                    of them. Some are better at 1 than another... and so
                    if they can have this connection using a particular
                    method it is still good, for it is the connection that
                    is good rather than any 1 practice.

                    There are many ways to achieve the same end... they
                    can all be lumped into the same group... meditation
                    practices, which Yoga is a part of. Just because you
                    have been taught that Yoga is the only way, or you
                    hadn't had success using other methods, does not make
                    it true. The truth is the truth... even if the truth
                    is not known by anyone on earth.

                    A story to demonstraight. ..
                    One day a boat sank. All new how to swim but one
                    unlearned man. As he struggled he found himself able
                    to stay afloat but the method was unconventional. He
                    would simply lay there and take deep breaths, barely
                    keeping his mouth above the surface of the water.

                    The others around chided him. "That is not how it is
                    done. Look at me, I can teach you." He knew his way
                    worked so he continued to do it even though the others
                    around were looking down their noses, as they had
                    their entire heads above water.

                    However, as time passed, all the others got tired.
                    The man who simply floated stated... "look here I can
                    teach you" But no one would learn from pride.

                    After a while they were picked up by a boat and the
                    man was made fun of. The others thought he was
                    foolish for not being able to learn to swim and made
                    fun of how he looked in the water. Hearing this he
                    addressed them "Look at you huffing and puffing. Here
                    I stand refreshed. Who now looks foolish? Ridicule
                    me if you wish, but I stand here able to help row the
                    boat, as much alive as all of you."

                    Basicly there is more than 1 way to achieve the same
                    end. Both styles had their advantages. Those
                    swimming could see for help, and those who floated
                    could conserve their energy. Both allowed them to not
                    drown. But you see, floating worked for him. In
                    addition, if he was taught how it always was taught
                    they would have struggled rowing the boat ashore.
                    Change isn't always bad. It was that the man was able
                    to stay above the water that was important, not the
                    way he was able to stay above the water.

                    For such reasons, I will respectfully disagree,
                    Ben
                    --- prakki surya <dattapr2000@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                    > dear Ben & friends
                    >
                    > sorry for the late reply. First i want to reply
                    > the objections by our other two friends. My straight
                    > forward question to them. Did Lord Jesus preached
                    > about meditation in the Bible? Infact even Lord
                    > Krishna did not preach about meditation in the Gita.
                    > I am sorry to say that this meditation was
                    > introduced middle age Indians who were unable to
                    > cross their family bonds and so failed to succeed in
                    > Yoga.
                    >
                    > They wanted to cover their in ability by twisting
                    > the very concept of yoga. The family bonds were
                    > removed from the concept and only wheels or lotus
                    > flowers are left fixed. Now, they close the eyes and
                    > say that they have seen the lotus flowers or wheels,
                    > which are only imaginary. Now they cross these
                    > wheels by their imaginary “Kundalini” and say that
                    > they have succeeded in Yoga. These blind teachers
                    > are also not to be blamed, because they were trained
                    > like that by their blind teachers. This
                    > misinterpretation was done long time back and hence,
                    > even at the time of Krishna, He told that yoga was
                    > lost since a long time.
                    >
                    > We cannot catch those original culprits, who were
                    > the top most twisting masters and so the present
                    > tradition also cannot be blamed. Only rectification
                    > is the way left over. Some say that they see light,
                    > which is only an imagination. After all, the mind is
                    > a form of energy and on its concentration imaginary
                    > light can be imagined. Instead of such a week light,
                    > you better see a strong light with your open eyes.
                    > What is the use of these imaginary lights and
                    > colours, without achieving the Lord through your
                    > love, which excels the various worldly, loves.
                    >
                    > I pity the foreigners, who are trapped in this
                    > false imaginary line of yoga, who are wasting their
                    > precious lifetime and energy. In fact, they are the
                    > best to succeed in yoga, if the reality of the yoga
                    > is exposed. Their family bonds are very weak and
                    > their love towards God is real, which is proved by
                    > their huge sacrifice of money to God’s work. Money
                    > is the fruit of work and its sacrifice for God’s
                    > work is “Karma phala tyaga” as mentioned in Gita.
                    > Again, the middle age Indians twisted this word
                    > “Karma phala tyaga” as sacrifice of the fruit of the
                    > work like praying God instead of sacrifice of money.
                    >
                    >
                    > The reason was that these Indians were unable to
                    > sacrifice money to God due to their strong love on
                    > their children. Foreigners ask their children to
                    > earn after certain age. Indians store money even for
                    > ten generations and still continue to store only.
                    > Since prayers, meditation and knowledge are very
                    > much diverted to God, India was blessed by God with
                    > good language, good mind and good knowledge.
                    >
                    > Since foreigners are good in sacrifice, God
                    > blessed them with good wealth. Even Indian spiritual
                    > centres were strongly funded by foreigners only.
                    > Swami Vivekananda cried, “Why my India suffers with
                    > poverty in spite of so much spiritual knowledge?”
                    > Sacrifice of money (Karma phala tyaga) and sacrifice
                    > of work (karma Sanyasa) put together constitute the
                    > God’s service, which is the real Yoga (real proof of
                    > love) called “Karma yoga” in Gita. Foreigners are
                    > the best in this karma yoga and so they easily
                    > succeed in yoga. Throughout Gita, this karma yoga
                    > was explained as yoga and wheels or lotus flowers
                    > are not at all mentioned.
                    >
                    >
                    > At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami
                    > surya
                    > http://www.universa l-spirituality. org
                    >
                    >
                    > troy galloway <trgallo12000@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                    > Ben , Des is right on. Follow your heart
                    > and you will only do the right thing. People have a
                    > tendency to follow others. This isn't wrong if they
                    > can't or just don't hear or trust themselves. You my
                    > friend sound as you do know
                    >
                    > Des Brittain <desbrittain@ hotmail.com> wrote: Ben,
                    > just keep meditating and allowing what happens to
                    > happen. You are on
                    > the right path. Pay no attention to people who
                    > insist on talking in flowery
                    > language and who seem to believe that Indian gurus
                    > and religion own the
                    > patent on the inner life of us all. The answers will
                    > come from within.
                    > Yeehaaaaaaa! Des Brittain.
                    >
                    >
                    > >From: Benjamin Buehne
                    > >Reply-To:
                    > meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
                    > >To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
                    > >Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America]
                    > Meditation is Universal - - -
                    > >Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 10:54:49 -0700 (PDT)
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >I am not asking for all to ask for powers from
                    > >anything, simply pointing out that the experience
                    > has
                    > >the ability to unify. Encouragement to spread the
                    > >practice. You believe this is wrong?
                    > >
                    > >--- prakki surya wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > True devotees never do penance for Siddhis.
                    > Radha,
                    > > > Gopikas did not achieve any Siddhis. Demons like
                    > > > Raavaa, Indrajit etc., did penance for only
                    > Siddhis
                    > > > i.e., to achieve powers from Lord only. These
                    > > > Siddhis did not finally save them. But Radha,
                    > > > Gopikas etc., could get highest loka and these
                    > are
                    > > > permanent also.
                    > > >
                    > > > Generally people are interested in the powers of
                    > > > Lord to get self-enjoyment in the form of
                    > visions,
                    > > > telepathy, astral travel, power of curing
                    > diseases
                    > > > etc….This is not the true path of devotion. The
                    > very
                    > > > meaning of devotion is true love on Lord. People
                    > > > aspire for spiritual growth. But the meaning of
                    > > > their spiritual growth is more visions, get
                    > powers
                    > > > for curing diseases of self and other to get
                    > name
                    > > > and fame, perform miracles etc. These people
                    > have
                    > > > not realised the Lord & His true devotion.
                    > Spiritual
                    > > > growth itself means increase of devotion on Lord
                    > day
                    > > > by day by getting more and more divine
                    > knowledge.
                    > > > They do not have any trace of devotion on Lord.
                    > But
                    > > > they pretend that they have devotion in front of
                    > > > Lord for getting His powers. No human
                    > incarnation
                    > > > had ever encouraged such things.
                    > > >
                    > > > The reason for interest in His powers only (and
                    > > > not in Lord) is greed for fame, selfishness etc.
                    > > > Such people end up in such gurus only who
                    > encourage
                    > > > these type of activities. They can never come
                    > near
                    > > > to Satguru (Lord in Human form like Jesus,
                    > Krishna,
                    > > > Mohd. Prophet, Buddha …..) who do not encourage
                    > such
                    > > > activities. The real devotee are (like Gopikas,
                    > > > Hanuman, Swami Vivekananda, Prahlada ....)
                    > diamonds
                    > > > and remaining are like gravel stones. Lord is
                    > also
                    > > > not bothered of gravel stones, which will be in
                    > > > majority. Jesus also said the true path leading
                    > to
                    > > > Lord is very very narrow with full of thorns
                    > with 2
                    > > > or 3 people.
                    > > >
                    > > > Once one got used to these powers, name, fame
                    > etc.
                    > > > it is difficult to come out of this. This is a
                    > sort
                    > > > of addiction. But Lord is not pleased with him
                    > and
                    > > > will punish him latter. This is definitely not
                    > the
                    > > > right path. Satguru (Lord in human form) also
                    > gives
                    > > > divine visions to disciples to improve their
                    > faith.
                    > > > Finally the divine knowledge only helps in
                    > getting
                    > > > the real devotion towards the lord. As long as a
                    > > > disciple wants to use his guru for his selfish
                    > ends,
                    > > > he will get into that type of guru, who will
                    > utilise
                    > > > his services for his benefit.
                    > > >
                    > > > At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami
                    > > > surya
                    >
                    === message truncated ===

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                  • prakki surya
                    To please the Lord you have to surrender your words by singing about Him, the mind in His devotion and the intelligence in His discussions. However these three
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 5, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                       
                      The rich man who has no boundaries in his ambition to take the wealth of the Lord in unlimited quantities must realise that his effort is useless and waste. The reason is that one has to leave all the excess of wealth here only and his family members will not share his sin. They never provoked him to earn infinitely for their sake. Therefore he is the only responsible person for all the sins. He should retain the required wealth for all the needs only (Yavanartha Udapane—Gita). If he analyses the family bonds, they are proved as unreal dramatic bonds. Therefore a rich man should donate the excess of wealth to the Lord in human form for His mission. If the human incarnation is not recognised, the second address of Lord is a real devotee. The Lord dwells in the hearts of a real devotee. But people are donating to temples seeing the statues without analysing the background management. If the manager is neither the human incarnation nor a real devotee, the sacrifice of your money is a waste.
                       
                      The sacrifice of money applies even to the ordinary human beings. No doubt these people are earning the money for their basic needs only. Some earn a little more to utilise for the unforeseen problems in the future. Storing the wealth for such purpose is also justified. Such storing is not wrong. Some people earn just up to the mark. Some people earn even below the mark. All these people need not do any sacrifice of their money to the Lord, because the very basic point is that the Lord neither needs your money nor your work for His mission. Just His will is sufficient to carry on His mission (Name Karmaphale Spruha—Gita). But all these ordinary human beings also are wasting some money in the name of entertainments. All the entertainments will end only in loss and misery. Therefore you are wasting, your time, energy and money in the entertainments, which are ending in loss only.
                       
                      For example if you see a picture, you have lost the time and money and at the end you experience the loss of the energy also as weakness. Similarly reading the novels and doing unnecessary gossips. Either you utilise your time, energy and money for basic needs or store it for future needs. Instead of wasting for the entertainments, which end in loss (Duhkha Yonaya Evate—Gita), you convert this wastage into divine wealth for getting the grace of Lord which protects you here as well as there. This is a beneficial programme for you only and not for the Lord.
                       
                      At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami
                      surya


                      Benjamin Buehne <benbuehne@...> wrote:
                      Prakki Surya,
                      I understand what you are saying. However, the world
                      does not move to the beat of just 1 drum. What might
                      be right for you, may not be right for some. Jesus,
                      Siddhartha, Krishna, and most every other religious
                      figured speaked of purity. Clarity of mind, not
                      sacrificing the divine for the earthly, and love.
                      Relationships with the divine are personal.

                      As far as I understand, you are of the belief that
                      there is but 1 way to achieve this end and that is
                      through Yoga. However many people have found the same
                      results different ways. Should we stifle these other
                      practices that have done so much good because they
                      were not mentioned by name? There are many ways to
                      become more in touch with the divine, and Yoga is one
                      of them. Some are better at 1 than another... and so
                      if they can have this connection using a particular
                      method it is still good, for it is the connection that
                      is good rather than any 1 practice.

                      There are many ways to achieve the same end... they
                      can all be lumped into the same group... meditation
                      practices, which Yoga is a part of. Just because you
                      have been taught that Yoga is the only way, or you
                      hadn't had success using other methods, does not make
                      it true. The truth is the truth... even if the truth
                      is not known by anyone on earth.

                      A story to demonstraight. ..
                      One day a boat sank. All new how to swim but one
                      unlearned man. As he struggled he found himself able
                      to stay afloat but the method was unconventional. He
                      would simply lay there and take deep breaths, barely
                      keeping his mouth above the surface of the water.

                      The others around chided him. "That is not how it is
                      done. Look at me, I can teach you." He knew his way
                      worked so he continued to do it even though the others
                      around were looking down their noses, as they had
                      their entire heads above water.

                      However, as time passed, all the others got tired.
                      The man who simply floated stated... "look here I can
                      teach you" But no one would learn from pride.

                      After a while they were picked up by a boat and the
                      man was made fun of. The others thought he was
                      foolish for not being able to learn to swim and made
                      fun of how he looked in the water. Hearing this he
                      addressed them "Look at you huffing and puffing. Here
                      I stand refreshed. Who now looks foolish? Ridicule
                      me if you wish, but I stand here able to help row the
                      boat, as much alive as all of you."

                      Basicly there is more than 1 way to achieve the same
                      end. Both styles had their advantages. Those
                      swimming could see for help, and those who floated
                      could conserve their energy. Both allowed them to not
                      drown. But you see, floating worked for him. In
                      addition, if he was taught how it always was taught
                      they would have struggled rowing the boat ashore.
                      Change isn't always bad. It was that the man was able
                      to stay above the water that was important, not the
                      way he was able to stay above the water.

                      For such reasons, I will respectfully disagree,
                      Ben
                      .


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                    • prakki surya
                      Everybody is devising their own path saying that there are many ways to reach the Lord. This path generally will be: Enjoy the world in family bonds and at the
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 5, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Everybody is devising their own path saying that there are many ways to reach the Lord. This path generally will be: Enjoy the world in family bonds and at the time of death, get the Moksha or liberation. Everybody aspires the highest fruit through the easiest way. The easiest way is the path of knowledge, which does not require any sacrifice. The highest fruit is to become the very Lord right now from this moment onwards. The path that pleases the Lord was already preached by Krishna in Gita and Jesus in Bible.
                         
                        Nobody is neither interested to know what was preached by Krishna or Jesus nor ready to identify & learn from the preaching of a Satguru. It is a sheer illusion to conclude that our path is true based on our 'the little knowledge'.
                         
                        If you see the life of any real devotee the truth will be known automatically. If anybody observes the life history of any real devotee, like disciples of Jesus, Hanuman, Gopikas, Prahlada, Sabari, Kannappa, Tyagaraja etc., this knowledge should be in line with the way they lead their lives. This was brought out by Datta Swamiji excellently by which nobody can deny any iota of this divine knowledge.
                         
                        The Veda, the Bible & the Gita are the authorities. Other Sanskrit verses written by blind scholars are not authorities.  Anybody who has learnt Sanskrit can write a verse.  Even Charvaka, the atheist, wrote Sanskrit verses.
                         
                        At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami
                        surya


                        troy galloway <trgallo12000@...> wrote:
                        Thank you Ben for putting this so perfectly. You do Know my friend and your world will always be brighter by seeing the whole picture and not just a corner

                        Benjamin Buehne <benbuehne@yahoo. com> wrote:
                        Prakki Surya,
                        I understand what you are saying. However, the world
                        does not move to the beat of just 1 drum. What might
                        be right for you, may not be right for some. Jesus,
                        Siddhartha, Krishna, and most every other religious
                        figured speaked of purity. Clarity of mind, not
                        sacrificing the divine for the earthly, and love.
                        Relationships with the divine are personal.

                        As far as I understand, you are of the belief that
                        there is but 1 way to achieve this end and that is
                        through Yoga. However many people have found the same
                        results different ways. Should we stifle these other
                        practices that have done so much good because they
                        were not mentioned by name? There are many ways to
                        become more in touch with the divine, and Yoga is one
                        of them. Some are better at 1 than another... and so
                        if they can have this connection using a particular
                        method it is still good, for it is the connection that
                        is good rather than any 1 practice.
                        .


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                      • Benjamin Buehne
                        This is a point I can agree with. It is true that our actions are very important, and that what you don t do is as important as what you do. However, action
                        Message 11 of 11 , Aug 5, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          This is a point I can agree with. It is true that our
                          actions are very important, and that what you don't do
                          is as important as what you do. However, action is
                          meaningless without clarity. For you see, without
                          that clarity it is difficult for your actions to have
                          meaning, and even more difficult for the some of your
                          actions to have meaning.

                          If you want a to build a canoe out of a log, it is the
                          clarity of what the finished product should be that is
                          important. For you can chop off wood all you want,
                          without the clarity of the finished product all you
                          will end up with is a pile of wood chips. So it is
                          with our actions and sacrifice. Knowledge may be but
                          1% of what pleases god but without it how can the
                          other 99% be achieved?

                          You bring this up yourself with giving money as
                          sacrifice. You point out that giving to the wrong
                          cause pleases no one. You see, it is clarity that
                          will help you figure out what is the correct and
                          incorrect cause.



                          --- prakki surya <dattapr2000@...> wrote:

                          > To please the Lord you have to surrender your words
                          > by singing about Him, the mind in His devotion and
                          > the intelligence in His discussions. However these
                          > three constitute only 1% of the total sacrifice and
                          > this is called as theoretical sacrifice. The
                          > sacrifice of your work and fruit of work constitutes
                          > 99% of sacrifice, which is called as practical
                          > sacrifice. The practical sacrifice should be done to
                          > the most deserving Lord in human form if recognised
                          > properly. The reason is that all this wealth belongs
                          > to the Lord only since He is the creator of the
                          > entire universe. All this wealth is His immovable
                          > property and all the living beings are His movable
                          > property. You are a part and parcel of His movable
                          > property. You are supposed to take any amount from
                          > His infinite wealth for your basic needs, the
                          > boundary of which cannot be infinite.
                          >
                          > The rich man who has no boundaries in his ambition
                          > to take the wealth of the Lord in unlimited
                          > quantities must realise that his effort is useless
                          > and waste. The reason is that one has to leave all
                          > the excess of wealth here only and his family
                          > members will not share his sin. They never provoked
                          > him to earn infinitely for their sake. Therefore he
                          > is the only responsible person for all the sins. He
                          > should retain the required wealth for all the needs
                          > only (Yavanartha Udapane—Gita). If he analyses the
                          > family bonds, they are proved as unreal dramatic
                          > bonds. Therefore a rich man should donate the excess
                          > of wealth to the Lord in human form for His mission.
                          > If the human incarnation is not recognised, the
                          > second address of Lord is a real devotee. The Lord
                          > dwells in the hearts of a real devotee. But people
                          > are donating to temples seeing the statues without
                          > analysing the background management. If the manager
                          > is neither the human incarnation nor a real devotee,
                          > the sacrifice of your
                          > money is a waste.
                          >
                          > The sacrifice of money applies even to the
                          > ordinary human beings. No doubt these people are
                          > earning the money for their basic needs only. Some
                          > earn a little more to utilise for the unforeseen
                          > problems in the future. Storing the wealth for such
                          > purpose is also justified. Such storing is not
                          > wrong. Some people earn just up to the mark. Some
                          > people earn even below the mark. All these people
                          > need not do any sacrifice of their money to the
                          > Lord, because the very basic point is that the Lord
                          > neither needs your money nor your work for His
                          > mission. Just His will is sufficient to carry on His
                          > mission (Name Karmaphale Spruha—Gita). But all these
                          > ordinary human beings also are wasting some money in
                          > the name of entertainments. All the entertainments
                          > will end only in loss and misery. Therefore you are
                          > wasting, your time, energy and money in the
                          > entertainments, which are ending in loss only.
                          >
                          > For example if you see a picture, you have lost
                          > the time and money and at the end you experience the
                          > loss of the energy also as weakness. Similarly
                          > reading the novels and doing unnecessary gossips.
                          > Either you utilise your time, energy and money for
                          > basic needs or store it for future needs. Instead of
                          > wasting for the entertainments, which end in loss
                          > (Duhkha Yonaya Evate—Gita), you convert this wastage
                          > into divine wealth for getting the grace of Lord
                          > which protects you here as well as there. This is a
                          > beneficial programme for you only and not for the
                          > Lord.
                          >
                          > At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami
                          > surya
                          > www.universal-spirituality.org
                          >
                          >
                          > Benjamin Buehne <benbuehne@...> wrote:
                          > Prakki Surya,
                          > I understand what you are saying. However, the world
                          > does not move to the beat of just 1 drum. What might
                          > be right for you, may not be right for some. Jesus,
                          > Siddhartha, Krishna, and most every other religious
                          > figured speaked of purity. Clarity of mind, not
                          > sacrificing the divine for the earthly, and love.
                          > Relationships with the divine are personal.
                          >
                          > As far as I understand, you are of the belief that
                          > there is but 1 way to achieve this end and that is
                          > through Yoga. However many people have found the
                          > same
                          > results different ways. Should we stifle these other
                          > practices that have done so much good because they
                          > were not mentioned by name? There are many ways to
                          > become more in touch with the divine, and Yoga is
                          > one
                          > of them. Some are better at 1 than another... and so
                          > if they can have this connection using a particular
                          > method it is still good, for it is the connection
                          > that
                          > is good rather than any 1 practice.
                          >
                          > There are many ways to achieve the same end... they
                          > can all be lumped into the same group... meditation
                          > practices, which Yoga is a part of. Just because you
                          > have been taught that Yoga is the only way, or you
                          > hadn't had success using other methods, does not
                          > make
                          > it true. The truth is the truth... even if the truth
                          > is not known by anyone on earth.
                          >
                          > A story to demonstraight...
                          > One day a boat sank. All new how to swim but one
                          > unlearned man. As he struggled he found himself able
                          > to stay afloat but the method was unconventional. He
                          > would simply lay there and take deep breaths, barely
                          > keeping his mouth above the surface of the water.
                          >
                          > The others around chided him. "That is not how it is
                          > done. Look at me, I can teach you." He knew his way
                          > worked so he continued to do it even though the
                          > others
                          > around were looking down their noses, as they had
                          > their entire heads above water.
                          >
                          > However, as time passed, all the others got tired.
                          > The man who simply floated stated... "look here I
                          > can
                          > teach you" But no one would learn from pride.
                          >
                          > After a while they were picked up by a boat and the
                          > man was made fun of. The others thought he was
                          > foolish for not being able to learn to swim and made
                          > fun of how he looked in the water. Hearing this he
                          > addressed them "Look at you huffing and puffing.
                          > Here
                          > I stand refreshed. Who now looks foolish? Ridicule
                          > me if you wish, but I stand here able to help row
                          > the
                          > boat, as much alive as all of you."
                          >
                          > Basicly there is more than 1 way to achieve the same
                          > end. Both styles had their advantages. Those
                          > swimming could see for help, and those who floated
                          > could conserve their energy. Both allowed them to
                          > not
                          > drown. But you see, floating worked for him. In
                          > addition, if he was taught how it always was taught
                          > they would have struggled rowing the boat ashore.
                          > Change isn't always bad. It was that the man was
                          > able
                          > to stay above the water that was important, not the
                          > way he was able to stay above the water.
                          >
                          > For such reasons, I will respectfully disagree,
                          > Ben
                          >
                          >
                          > .
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------
                          > Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out
                          > the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups.


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