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Introduction to myself.

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  • Benjamin Buehne
    Hi everyone, My name is Ben and I just joined. It is nice that such a place exists, I have struggled to find others to relate to as far as my experiences
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 14, 2006
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      Hi everyone,
      My name is Ben and I just joined. It is nice
      that such a place exists, I have struggled to find
      others to relate to as far as my experiences
      meditating go. Basicly no one else I know does it. I
      thought I would take this opportunity to share with
      the group as far as who I am and what my experiences
      have been like to see if anyone can relate.

      I used to be a fairly confused person. I would
      generally be filled with an anger and anxiety. I
      wasn't too fun to be around. 1 day I had a panic
      attack... they continued and actually got stronger as
      I had more of them.

      I heard about the effects of meditation and gave
      it a shot. It worked fairly well for me... I wasn't
      as angry and the panic attacks stopped. I made
      meditation a regular habit although I didn't have
      panic attacks, just to maintain. I taught myself how
      to do this.

      One day, something happened though. I was
      actually in college and studying for finals. I was
      feeling stressed out so I decided to meditate. It was
      then that I had what others have described as a mystic
      experience. A conciousness of everything, without
      thought. I was filled with energy afterwords and a
      sense of elightment.

      It was then that I started to notice changes in
      myself. I wouldn't ever lose my temper. Nothing
      really got to me... anxiety wasn't an issue and I no
      longer had fears that I previously had. I went from a
      C student to an A student. I felt more compassion for
      others. Although I was raised catholic... previously
      I hadn't been very religious. Afterwords I was
      certain of there being something else...

      Having this mystic experience became fairly easy
      for me. I would be able to achieve it almost every
      time I meditated. It was at this point in time that I
      noticed a clairvoyance. I had prior knowledge of the
      future.

      Now many may call me crazy... but I work in the
      mental health field and really experience no symptoms
      of mental illness. This clairvoyance can be
      described. It's like deja-vu. It is as if I remember
      these things... although at times I need something to
      jog my memory (a trigger). Then, later... I watch as
      things happened exactly as I had "remembered."

      This did disturb me however... I didn't always
      like what I saw. For a period of time I stopped
      meditating in hopes that this would go away... and to
      an extent it did. However, I was drawn back into
      meditating and again took to it with ease.

      That brings me to why I am here... as again with
      meditating I have the mystic experience. I again was
      clairvoyant... which was fine until recently.
      Recently , again, what I have seen has disturbed me.
      I am talking about things on a global scale as well...
      not certain if it's armageddon but certainly a period
      of transition and war that we will enter soon. I'm
      not talking about the war we are already in... one far
      more grevious and that occurs on the streets of the
      United States. I was wondering if anyone else has had
      similar experiences. Anyone else every get this
      cliarvoyant feeling? If so, have you also seen this?

      Pleasure making your acquaintance,
      Ben

      __________________________________________________
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    • Jeff Belyea
      Hi Ben - While the mystic experience is rare, this group most probably has several, if not quite a few, who can relate to your story from similar direct
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 15, 2006
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        Hi Ben -

        While the mystic experience is rare,
        this group most probably has several,
        if not quite a few, who can relate
        to your story from similar direct
        experience.

        The shift to what you wrote of as,
        "consciousness of everything" and the
        clarity, compassion and comfort
        (peace of mind)is a common result.
        The clairvoyant part, and the
        occasions of deja vu, are not as
        common, but many people report them,
        as well.

        My experience, personally, and in
        teaching meditation for the past 30
        years has been that the former level
        of conscious of which you wrote -
        that anxious, needy "former self"
        - often referred to as "ego",
        is very sneaky, and does not
        give up its attempt to regain the
        dominant position in our consciousness.

        "It" can impose upon our imagination
        in the guise of clairvoyance. In
        this way, it will play upon our
        "spiritual pride" and can trap us
        in a return to "vain imaginings"
        that are not a product of our
        enlightenment. This is quicksand,
        and can rob us of the ground gained,
        in great part. It takes keen
        discernment and abject honesty
        with ourselves to be able to spot
        this distinction.

        This is when a mature teacher or
        "guru" can help guide an innocently
        deluded "seeker" who has egoistically
        talked themselves into claiming
        enlightenment or even "Guru" status,
        (Jody and Bruce - members here, can
        speak knowledgeably, and sometimes
        a bit jadedly, about this) and newbie
        enlightened ones.

        Even when the enlightenment
        experience seems, and is "known"
        as, absolutely complete, there is
        still a maintenance that is
        required to continue to reap
        the harvest of this new level
        of consciousness. It is easy to
        ignore this, because the new
        enlightenment is so pure and
        powerful that it feel invulnerable.

        In great part, it is, but while
        we are still living in the material
        world (thanks, Madonna) we are
        subject to a "warring" faction -
        in our own internal lives - as we see
        manifested externally in the worldly
        activity of war in the name of God.

        A red flag for spotting this activity is
        is when we feel a negative anticipation,
        or stuggle. The ego feeds on struggle
        and will step up the internal dialogue.
        And this is the antithesis of meditation
        as a waking consciousness. If we feed
        the struggle, we are in effect giving
        up our enlightened consciousness, which
        is above circumstance, and returning
        to a rationally-dominant concern.

        The logical or rational argument
        convincingly says we must be concerned
        and do our part. But our part is to
        maintain the enlightened perspective
        and bring peace by our positive
        energy and en-"light"ened view.
        This alone will contribute to the
        change of consciousness, and shift
        in awareness, on a global scale that
        so many awakened teacher "know" as
        the destiny of humankind. Whoops,
        getting a little lofty now.

        I'll stop here. If you find some
        resonance with this, let me know,
        and I'll be happy to follow up with
        you privately.

        Peace,

        Jeff

        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Benjamin Buehne
        <benbuehne@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi everyone,
        > My name is Ben and I just joined. It is nice
        > that such a place exists, I have struggled to find
        > others to relate to as far as my experiences
        > meditating go. Basicly no one else I know does it. I
        > thought I would take this opportunity to share with
        > the group as far as who I am and what my experiences
        > have been like to see if anyone can relate.
        >
        > I used to be a fairly confused person. I would
        > generally be filled with an anger and anxiety. I
        > wasn't too fun to be around. 1 day I had a panic
        > attack... they continued and actually got stronger as
        > I had more of them.
        >
        > I heard about the effects of meditation and gave
        > it a shot. It worked fairly well for me... I wasn't
        > as angry and the panic attacks stopped. I made
        > meditation a regular habit although I didn't have
        > panic attacks, just to maintain. I taught myself how
        > to do this.
        >
        > One day, something happened though. I was
        > actually in college and studying for finals. I was
        > feeling stressed out so I decided to meditate. It was
        > then that I had what others have described as a mystic
        > experience. A conciousness of everything, without
        > thought. I was filled with energy afterwords and a
        > sense of elightment.
        >
        > It was then that I started to notice changes in
        > myself. I wouldn't ever lose my temper. Nothing
        > really got to me... anxiety wasn't an issue and I no
        > longer had fears that I previously had. I went from a
        > C student to an A student. I felt more compassion for
        > others. Although I was raised catholic... previously
        > I hadn't been very religious. Afterwords I was
        > certain of there being something else...
        >
        > Having this mystic experience became fairly easy
        > for me. I would be able to achieve it almost every
        > time I meditated. It was at this point in time that I
        > noticed a clairvoyance. I had prior knowledge of the
        > future.
        >
        > Now many may call me crazy... but I work in the
        > mental health field and really experience no symptoms
        > of mental illness. This clairvoyance can be
        > described. It's like deja-vu. It is as if I remember
        > these things... although at times I need something to
        > jog my memory (a trigger). Then, later... I watch as
        > things happened exactly as I had "remembered."
        >
        > This did disturb me however... I didn't always
        > like what I saw. For a period of time I stopped
        > meditating in hopes that this would go away... and to
        > an extent it did. However, I was drawn back into
        > meditating and again took to it with ease.
        >
        > That brings me to why I am here... as again with
        > meditating I have the mystic experience. I again was
        > clairvoyant... which was fine until recently.
        > Recently , again, what I have seen has disturbed me.
        > I am talking about things on a global scale as well...
        > not certain if it's armageddon but certainly a period
        > of transition and war that we will enter soon. I'm
        > not talking about the war we are already in... one far
        > more grevious and that occurs on the streets of the
        > United States. I was wondering if anyone else has had
        > similar experiences. Anyone else every get this
        > cliarvoyant feeling? If so, have you also seen this?
        >
        > Pleasure making your acquaintance,
        > Ben
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
      • Benjamin Buehne
        Thanks Jeff- I think I understand what you are saying but I would like to clarify. Basicly, there is a part of me, in my nature, that retains this anger and
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 16, 2006
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          Thanks Jeff-

          I think I understand what you are saying but I would
          like to clarify. Basicly, there is a part of me, in
          my nature, that retains this anger and anxiety. While
          I may have been clairvoyant before... what I am seeing
          now may not, in fact, be this clairvoyance but this
          anger and anxiety sneeking into my conciousness.
          Possibly to frighten me out of continuing to seek
          enlightenment. Is this correct?

          Also, how can such a thing "rob us from ground
          gained"? What do you need to do in order to avoid
          such a thing?

          I realize I am inexperienced so I appreciate your help
          (everyone in the group for that matter). This state
          is actually not something I initially desired... I was
          simply trying to relax and it happened (interestingly
          enough it was the first time I had meditated outside).
          I want to let you know that I am humble and realize
          how "green" I am... I am simply a person who has taken
          to the art with significantly more ease than others.
          Your help is greatly appreciated.

          Thank you for your response,
          Ben
          P.S. Do you know of anyone in the chicagoland area
          that is experienced enough to help me with such
          matters?

          --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:

          > Hi Ben -
          >
          > While the mystic experience is rare,
          > this group most probably has several,
          > if not quite a few, who can relate
          > to your story from similar direct
          > experience.
          >
          > The shift to what you wrote of as,
          > "consciousness of everything" and the
          > clarity, compassion and comfort
          > (peace of mind)is a common result.
          > The clairvoyant part, and the
          > occasions of deja vu, are not as
          > common, but many people report them,
          > as well.
          >
          > My experience, personally, and in
          > teaching meditation for the past 30
          > years has been that the former level
          > of conscious of which you wrote -
          > that anxious, needy "former self"
          > - often referred to as "ego",
          > is very sneaky, and does not
          > give up its attempt to regain the
          > dominant position in our consciousness.
          >
          > "It" can impose upon our imagination
          > in the guise of clairvoyance. In
          > this way, it will play upon our
          > "spiritual pride" and can trap us
          > in a return to "vain imaginings"
          > that are not a product of our
          > enlightenment. This is quicksand,
          > and can rob us of the ground gained,
          > in great part. It takes keen
          > discernment and abject honesty
          > with ourselves to be able to spot
          > this distinction.
          >
          > This is when a mature teacher or
          > "guru" can help guide an innocently
          > deluded "seeker" who has egoistically
          > talked themselves into claiming
          > enlightenment or even "Guru" status,
          > (Jody and Bruce - members here, can
          > speak knowledgeably, and sometimes
          > a bit jadedly, about this) and newbie
          > enlightened ones.
          >
          > Even when the enlightenment
          > experience seems, and is "known"
          > as, absolutely complete, there is
          > still a maintenance that is
          > required to continue to reap
          > the harvest of this new level
          > of consciousness. It is easy to
          > ignore this, because the new
          > enlightenment is so pure and
          > powerful that it feel invulnerable.
          >
          > In great part, it is, but while
          > we are still living in the material
          > world (thanks, Madonna) we are
          > subject to a "warring" faction -
          > in our own internal lives - as we see
          > manifested externally in the worldly
          > activity of war in the name of God.
          >
          > A red flag for spotting this activity is
          > is when we feel a negative anticipation,
          > or stuggle. The ego feeds on struggle
          > and will step up the internal dialogue.
          > And this is the antithesis of meditation
          > as a waking consciousness. If we feed
          > the struggle, we are in effect giving
          > up our enlightened consciousness, which
          > is above circumstance, and returning
          > to a rationally-dominant concern.
          >
          > The logical or rational argument
          > convincingly says we must be concerned
          > and do our part. But our part is to
          > maintain the enlightened perspective
          > and bring peace by our positive
          > energy and en-"light"ened view.
          > This alone will contribute to the
          > change of consciousness, and shift
          > in awareness, on a global scale that
          > so many awakened teacher "know" as
          > the destiny of humankind. Whoops,
          > getting a little lofty now.
          >
          > I'll stop here. If you find some
          > resonance with this, let me know,
          > and I'll be happy to follow up with
          > you privately.
          >
          > Peace,
          >
          > Jeff
          >
          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
          > Benjamin Buehne
          > <benbuehne@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi everyone,
          > > My name is Ben and I just joined. It is nice
          > > that such a place exists, I have struggled to find
          > > others to relate to as far as my experiences
          > > meditating go. Basicly no one else I know does
          > it. I
          > > thought I would take this opportunity to share
          > with
          > > the group as far as who I am and what my
          > experiences
          > > have been like to see if anyone can relate.
          > >
          > > I used to be a fairly confused person. I
          > would
          > > generally be filled with an anger and anxiety. I
          > > wasn't too fun to be around. 1 day I had a panic
          > > attack... they continued and actually got stronger
          > as
          > > I had more of them.
          > >
          > > I heard about the effects of meditation and
          > gave
          > > it a shot. It worked fairly well for me... I
          > wasn't
          > > as angry and the panic attacks stopped. I made
          > > meditation a regular habit although I didn't have
          > > panic attacks, just to maintain. I taught myself
          > how
          > > to do this.
          > >
          > > One day, something happened though. I was
          > > actually in college and studying for finals. I
          > was
          > > feeling stressed out so I decided to meditate. It
          > was
          > > then that I had what others have described as a
          > mystic
          > > experience. A conciousness of everything, without
          > > thought. I was filled with energy afterwords and
          > a
          > > sense of elightment.
          > >
          > > It was then that I started to notice changes
          > in
          > > myself. I wouldn't ever lose my temper. Nothing
          > > really got to me... anxiety wasn't an issue and I
          > no
          > > longer had fears that I previously had. I went
          > from a
          > > C student to an A student. I felt more compassion
          > for
          > > others. Although I was raised catholic...
          > previously
          > > I hadn't been very religious. Afterwords I was
          > > certain of there being something else...
          > >
          > > Having this mystic experience became fairly
          > easy
          > > for me. I would be able to achieve it almost
          > every
          > > time I meditated. It was at this point in time
          > that I
          > > noticed a clairvoyance. I had prior knowledge of
          > the
          > > future.
          > >
          > > Now many may call me crazy... but I work in
          > the
          > > mental health field and really experience no
          > symptoms
          > > of mental illness. This clairvoyance can be
          > > described. It's like deja-vu. It is as if I
          > remember
          > > these things... although at times I need something
          > to
          > > jog my memory (a trigger). Then, later... I watch
          > as
          > > things happened exactly as I had "remembered."
          > >
          > > This did disturb me however... I didn't
          > always
          > > like what I saw. For a period of time I stopped
          > > meditating in hopes that this would go away... and
          > to
          > > an extent it did. However, I was drawn back into
          > > meditating and again took to it with ease.
          > >
          > > That brings me to why I am here... as again
          > with
          > > meditating I have the mystic experience. I again
          > was
          > > clairvoyant... which was fine until recently.
          > > Recently , again, what I have seen has disturbed
          > me.
          > > I am talking about things on a global scale as
          > well...
          >
          === message truncated ===



          __________________________________________________
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        • aideenmck
          Hi, Ben I think what Jeff means is that it s not the experience of clairvoyance that s the potential trap, but rather one s attachment to it. Is that right,
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 16, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi, Ben

            I think what Jeff means is that it's not the experience of
            clairvoyance that's the potential trap, but rather one's attachment
            to it.
            Is that right, Jeff?

            Aideen


            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Benjamin Buehne
            <benbuehne@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thanks Jeff-
            >
            > I think I understand what you are saying but I would
            > like to clarify. Basicly, there is a part of me, in
            > my nature, that retains this anger and anxiety. While
            > I may have been clairvoyant before... what I am seeing
            > now may not, in fact, be this clairvoyance but this
            > anger and anxiety sneeking into my conciousness.
            > Possibly to frighten me out of continuing to seek
            > enlightenment. Is this correct?
            >
            > Also, how can such a thing "rob us from ground
            > gained"? What do you need to do in order to avoid
            > such a thing?
            >
            > I realize I am inexperienced so I appreciate your help
            > (everyone in the group for that matter). This state
            > is actually not something I initially desired... I was
            > simply trying to relax and it happened (interestingly
            > enough it was the first time I had meditated outside).
            > I want to let you know that I am humble and realize
            > how "green" I am... I am simply a person who has taken
            > to the art with significantly more ease than others.
            > Your help is greatly appreciated.
            >
            > Thank you for your response,
            > Ben
            > P.S. Do you know of anyone in the chicagoland area
            > that is experienced enough to help me with such
            > matters?
            >
            > --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
            >
            > > Hi Ben -
            > >
            > > While the mystic experience is rare,
            > > this group most probably has several,
            > > if not quite a few, who can relate
            > > to your story from similar direct
            > > experience.
            > >
            > > The shift to what you wrote of as,
            > > "consciousness of everything" and the
            > > clarity, compassion and comfort
            > > (peace of mind)is a common result.
            > > The clairvoyant part, and the
            > > occasions of deja vu, are not as
            > > common, but many people report them,
            > > as well.
            > >
            > > My experience, personally, and in
            > > teaching meditation for the past 30
            > > years has been that the former level
            > > of conscious of which you wrote -
            > > that anxious, needy "former self"
            > > - often referred to as "ego",
            > > is very sneaky, and does not
            > > give up its attempt to regain the
            > > dominant position in our consciousness.
            > >
            > > "It" can impose upon our imagination
            > > in the guise of clairvoyance. In
            > > this way, it will play upon our
            > > "spiritual pride" and can trap us
            > > in a return to "vain imaginings"
            > > that are not a product of our
            > > enlightenment. This is quicksand,
            > > and can rob us of the ground gained,
            > > in great part. It takes keen
            > > discernment and abject honesty
            > > with ourselves to be able to spot
            > > this distinction.
            > >
            > > This is when a mature teacher or
            > > "guru" can help guide an innocently
            > > deluded "seeker" who has egoistically
            > > talked themselves into claiming
            > > enlightenment or even "Guru" status,
            > > (Jody and Bruce - members here, can
            > > speak knowledgeably, and sometimes
            > > a bit jadedly, about this) and newbie
            > > enlightened ones.
            > >
            > > Even when the enlightenment
            > > experience seems, and is "known"
            > > as, absolutely complete, there is
            > > still a maintenance that is
            > > required to continue to reap
            > > the harvest of this new level
            > > of consciousness. It is easy to
            > > ignore this, because the new
            > > enlightenment is so pure and
            > > powerful that it feel invulnerable.
            > >
            > > In great part, it is, but while
            > > we are still living in the material
            > > world (thanks, Madonna) we are
            > > subject to a "warring" faction -
            > > in our own internal lives - as we see
            > > manifested externally in the worldly
            > > activity of war in the name of God.
            > >
            > > A red flag for spotting this activity is
            > > is when we feel a negative anticipation,
            > > or stuggle. The ego feeds on struggle
            > > and will step up the internal dialogue.
            > > And this is the antithesis of meditation
            > > as a waking consciousness. If we feed
            > > the struggle, we are in effect giving
            > > up our enlightened consciousness, which
            > > is above circumstance, and returning
            > > to a rationally-dominant concern.
            > >
            > > The logical or rational argument
            > > convincingly says we must be concerned
            > > and do our part. But our part is to
            > > maintain the enlightened perspective
            > > and bring peace by our positive
            > > energy and en-"light"ened view.
            > > This alone will contribute to the
            > > change of consciousness, and shift
            > > in awareness, on a global scale that
            > > so many awakened teacher "know" as
            > > the destiny of humankind. Whoops,
            > > getting a little lofty now.
            > >
            > > I'll stop here. If you find some
            > > resonance with this, let me know,
            > > and I'll be happy to follow up with
            > > you privately.
            > >
            > > Peace,
            > >
            > > Jeff
            > >
            > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
            > > Benjamin Buehne
            > > <benbuehne@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi everyone,
            > > > My name is Ben and I just joined. It is nice
            > > > that such a place exists, I have struggled to find
            > > > others to relate to as far as my experiences
            > > > meditating go. Basicly no one else I know does
            > > it. I
            > > > thought I would take this opportunity to share
            > > with
            > > > the group as far as who I am and what my
            > > experiences
            > > > have been like to see if anyone can relate.
            > > >
            > > > I used to be a fairly confused person. I
            > > would
            > > > generally be filled with an anger and anxiety. I
            > > > wasn't too fun to be around. 1 day I had a panic
            > > > attack... they continued and actually got stronger
            > > as
            > > > I had more of them.
            > > >
            > > > I heard about the effects of meditation and
            > > gave
            > > > it a shot. It worked fairly well for me... I
            > > wasn't
            > > > as angry and the panic attacks stopped. I made
            > > > meditation a regular habit although I didn't have
            > > > panic attacks, just to maintain. I taught myself
            > > how
            > > > to do this.
            > > >
            > > > One day, something happened though. I was
            > > > actually in college and studying for finals. I
            > > was
            > > > feeling stressed out so I decided to meditate. It
            > > was
            > > > then that I had what others have described as a
            > > mystic
            > > > experience. A conciousness of everything, without
            > > > thought. I was filled with energy afterwords and
            > > a
            > > > sense of elightment.
            > > >
            > > > It was then that I started to notice changes
            > > in
            > > > myself. I wouldn't ever lose my temper. Nothing
            > > > really got to me... anxiety wasn't an issue and I
            > > no
            > > > longer had fears that I previously had. I went
            > > from a
            > > > C student to an A student. I felt more compassion
            > > for
            > > > others. Although I was raised catholic...
            > > previously
            > > > I hadn't been very religious. Afterwords I was
            > > > certain of there being something else...
            > > >
            > > > Having this mystic experience became fairly
            > > easy
            > > > for me. I would be able to achieve it almost
            > > every
            > > > time I meditated. It was at this point in time
            > > that I
            > > > noticed a clairvoyance. I had prior knowledge of
            > > the
            > > > future.
            > > >
            > > > Now many may call me crazy... but I work in
            > > the
            > > > mental health field and really experience no
            > > symptoms
            > > > of mental illness. This clairvoyance can be
            > > > described. It's like deja-vu. It is as if I
            > > remember
            > > > these things... although at times I need something
            > > to
            > > > jog my memory (a trigger). Then, later... I watch
            > > as
            > > > things happened exactly as I had "remembered."
            > > >
            > > > This did disturb me however... I didn't
            > > always
            > > > like what I saw. For a period of time I stopped
            > > > meditating in hopes that this would go away... and
            > > to
            > > > an extent it did. However, I was drawn back into
            > > > meditating and again took to it with ease.
            > > >
            > > > That brings me to why I am here... as again
            > > with
            > > > meditating I have the mystic experience. I again
            > > was
            > > > clairvoyant... which was fine until recently.
            > > > Recently , again, what I have seen has disturbed
            > > me.
            > > > I am talking about things on a global scale as
            > > well...
            > >
            > === message truncated ===
            >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________________________
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            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > http://mail.yahoo.com
            >
          • Jeff Belyea
            ... I don t want to to add confusion, but your nature is not angry and anxious. That is learned behavior and reactionary rather than original thinking. What
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 16, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Benjamin Buehne
              <benbuehne@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks Jeff-
              >
              > I think I understand what you are saying but I would
              > like to clarify. Basicly, there is a part of me, in
              > my nature, that retains this anger and anxiety.

              I don't want to to add confusion, but your "nature"
              is not angry and anxious. That is learned behavior
              and reactionary rather than original thinking.

              What you experienced (and experience) from meditation -
              the lack of anger and anxiety, the peace of mind and
              compassion; those are your "nature".


              While
              > I may have been clairvoyant before... what I am seeing
              > now may not, in fact, be this clairvoyance but this
              > anger and anxiety sneeking into my conciousness.
              > Possibly to frighten me out of continuing to seek
              > enlightenment. Is this correct?

              Yes. Clairvoyance may be genuine - up to a point. When
              the seeming clarivoyance produces anger and/or anxiety,
              that is a product of the "ego", the linear, rational,
              conditioned mind, doing exactly what you discribe above.
              When you experienced release from this, you where
              connecting to the genuine "you". As you "seek" enlightenment,
              the ego is threatened. But I wonder why you put the
              continuance of your journey in those terms. You have
              experienced enlightenment. Rather than seek it, just
              accept it and let it "present itself" to you. This will
              lead you to an effortless, productive and joyful life.

              >
              > Also, how can such a thing "rob us from ground
              > gained"? What do you need to do in order to avoid
              > such a thing?

              Clarivoyance or any "gift" or "powers" are toys compared
              to enlightenment. They are trinkets. When we become
              fascinated by them, we are in "leaving" the realm of
              enlightened thought and experience, and the more we
              allow ourselves to be swept up with these thoughts -
              those that are negative and anxiety producing, the more
              we "rehearse". See my previous
              paragraph. More later. My show is upcoming.



              >
              > I realize I am inexperienced so I appreciate your help
              > (everyone in the group for that matter). This state
              > is actually not something I initially desired... I was
              > simply trying to relax and it happened (interestingly
              > enough it was the first time I had meditated outside).
              > I want to let you know that I am humble and realize
              > how "green" I am... I am simply a person who has taken
              > to the art with significantly more ease than others.
              > Your help is greatly appreciated.
              >
              > Thank you for your response,
              > Ben
              > P.S. Do you know of anyone in the chicagoland area
              > that is experienced enough to help me with such
              > matters?
              >
              > --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
              >
              > > Hi Ben -
              > >
              > > While the mystic experience is rare,
              > > this group most probably has several,
              > > if not quite a few, who can relate
              > > to your story from similar direct
              > > experience.
              > >
              > > The shift to what you wrote of as,
              > > "consciousness of everything" and the
              > > clarity, compassion and comfort
              > > (peace of mind)is a common result.
              > > The clairvoyant part, and the
              > > occasions of deja vu, are not as
              > > common, but many people report them,
              > > as well.
              > >
              > > My experience, personally, and in
              > > teaching meditation for the past 30
              > > years has been that the former level
              > > of conscious of which you wrote -
              > > that anxious, needy "former self"
              > > - often referred to as "ego",
              > > is very sneaky, and does not
              > > give up its attempt to regain the
              > > dominant position in our consciousness.
              > >
              > > "It" can impose upon our imagination
              > > in the guise of clairvoyance. In
              > > this way, it will play upon our
              > > "spiritual pride" and can trap us
              > > in a return to "vain imaginings"
              > > that are not a product of our
              > > enlightenment. This is quicksand,
              > > and can rob us of the ground gained,
              > > in great part. It takes keen
              > > discernment and abject honesty
              > > with ourselves to be able to spot
              > > this distinction.
              > >
              > > This is when a mature teacher or
              > > "guru" can help guide an innocently
              > > deluded "seeker" who has egoistically
              > > talked themselves into claiming
              > > enlightenment or even "Guru" status,
              > > (Jody and Bruce - members here, can
              > > speak knowledgeably, and sometimes
              > > a bit jadedly, about this) and newbie
              > > enlightened ones.
              > >
              > > Even when the enlightenment
              > > experience seems, and is "known"
              > > as, absolutely complete, there is
              > > still a maintenance that is
              > > required to continue to reap
              > > the harvest of this new level
              > > of consciousness. It is easy to
              > > ignore this, because the new
              > > enlightenment is so pure and
              > > powerful that it feel invulnerable.
              > >
              > > In great part, it is, but while
              > > we are still living in the material
              > > world (thanks, Madonna) we are
              > > subject to a "warring" faction -
              > > in our own internal lives - as we see
              > > manifested externally in the worldly
              > > activity of war in the name of God.
              > >
              > > A red flag for spotting this activity is
              > > is when we feel a negative anticipation,
              > > or stuggle. The ego feeds on struggle
              > > and will step up the internal dialogue.
              > > And this is the antithesis of meditation
              > > as a waking consciousness. If we feed
              > > the struggle, we are in effect giving
              > > up our enlightened consciousness, which
              > > is above circumstance, and returning
              > > to a rationally-dominant concern.
              > >
              > > The logical or rational argument
              > > convincingly says we must be concerned
              > > and do our part. But our part is to
              > > maintain the enlightened perspective
              > > and bring peace by our positive
              > > energy and en-"light"ened view.
              > > This alone will contribute to the
              > > change of consciousness, and shift
              > > in awareness, on a global scale that
              > > so many awakened teacher "know" as
              > > the destiny of humankind. Whoops,
              > > getting a little lofty now.
              > >
              > > I'll stop here. If you find some
              > > resonance with this, let me know,
              > > and I'll be happy to follow up with
              > > you privately.
              > >
              > > Peace,
              > >
              > > Jeff
              > >
              > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
              > > Benjamin Buehne
              > > <benbuehne@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi everyone,
              > > > My name is Ben and I just joined. It is nice
              > > > that such a place exists, I have struggled to find
              > > > others to relate to as far as my experiences
              > > > meditating go. Basicly no one else I know does
              > > it. I
              > > > thought I would take this opportunity to share
              > > with
              > > > the group as far as who I am and what my
              > > experiences
              > > > have been like to see if anyone can relate.
              > > >
              > > > I used to be a fairly confused person. I
              > > would
              > > > generally be filled with an anger and anxiety. I
              > > > wasn't too fun to be around. 1 day I had a panic
              > > > attack... they continued and actually got stronger
              > > as
              > > > I had more of them.
              > > >
              > > > I heard about the effects of meditation and
              > > gave
              > > > it a shot. It worked fairly well for me... I
              > > wasn't
              > > > as angry and the panic attacks stopped. I made
              > > > meditation a regular habit although I didn't have
              > > > panic attacks, just to maintain. I taught myself
              > > how
              > > > to do this.
              > > >
              > > > One day, something happened though. I was
              > > > actually in college and studying for finals. I
              > > was
              > > > feeling stressed out so I decided to meditate. It
              > > was
              > > > then that I had what others have described as a
              > > mystic
              > > > experience. A conciousness of everything, without
              > > > thought. I was filled with energy afterwords and
              > > a
              > > > sense of elightment.
              > > >
              > > > It was then that I started to notice changes
              > > in
              > > > myself. I wouldn't ever lose my temper. Nothing
              > > > really got to me... anxiety wasn't an issue and I
              > > no
              > > > longer had fears that I previously had. I went
              > > from a
              > > > C student to an A student. I felt more compassion
              > > for
              > > > others. Although I was raised catholic...
              > > previously
              > > > I hadn't been very religious. Afterwords I was
              > > > certain of there being something else...
              > > >
              > > > Having this mystic experience became fairly
              > > easy
              > > > for me. I would be able to achieve it almost
              > > every
              > > > time I meditated. It was at this point in time
              > > that I
              > > > noticed a clairvoyance. I had prior knowledge of
              > > the
              > > > future.
              > > >
              > > > Now many may call me crazy... but I work in
              > > the
              > > > mental health field and really experience no
              > > symptoms
              > > > of mental illness. This clairvoyance can be
              > > > described. It's like deja-vu. It is as if I
              > > remember
              > > > these things... although at times I need something
              > > to
              > > > jog my memory (a trigger). Then, later... I watch
              > > as
              > > > things happened exactly as I had "remembered."
              > > >
              > > > This did disturb me however... I didn't
              > > always
              > > > like what I saw. For a period of time I stopped
              > > > meditating in hopes that this would go away... and
              > > to
              > > > an extent it did. However, I was drawn back into
              > > > meditating and again took to it with ease.
              > > >
              > > > That brings me to why I am here... as again
              > > with
              > > > meditating I have the mystic experience. I again
              > > was
              > > > clairvoyant... which was fine until recently.
              > > > Recently , again, what I have seen has disturbed
              > > me.
              > > > I am talking about things on a global scale as
              > > well...
              > >
              > === message truncated ===
              >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________________________
              > Do You Yahoo!?
              > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              > http://mail.yahoo.com
              >
            • Jeff Belyea
              ... attachment ... Yes, that and the fact that the ego can come with imaginings disguised as clairvoyance. And this can lead back to the place where we
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 16, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "aideenmck"
                <aideenmck@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi, Ben
                >
                > I think what Jeff means is that it's not the experience of
                > clairvoyance that's the potential trap, but rather one's
                attachment
                > to it.
                > Is that right, Jeff?
                >
                > Aideen

                Yes, that and the fact that the "ego"
                can come with "imaginings" disguised
                as clairvoyance. And this can lead
                back to the place where we feel we
                have lost our enlightened perspective
                - back to "trying to figure out"...
                anything. Clarity has no questions.
                And, as you know, no attachments.

                Notice that Ben is still identifying
                himself as a seeker of enlightenment,
                rather than a "finder" who can simply
                attune to it.

                Jerry Wennstrom, in his book, "The
                Inspired Heart" wrote "The singular
                requirement of grace is to remain
                fearlessly attuned to the heart."

                Ramana Maharshi said, "The aspirant
                meditates to attain. The awakened
                meditate to maintain."

                In the Tibetan Book of The Dead,
                there is an admonition not to "follow
                the elephant tracks, once you have
                found the elephant.".

                So, my advice to Ben was to stay
                attuned to the heart - his beautiful
                experience that released him from
                anger and anxiey, and not enter
                a "wrestling match" with the issue
                of clairvoyance. Let it happen, but
                abandon it when it presents fear
                or doubt.

                Thanks.

                Jeff

                >
                >
                > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Benjamin Buehne
                > <benbuehne@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Thanks Jeff-
                > >
                > > I think I understand what you are saying but I would
                > > like to clarify. Basicly, there is a part of me, in
                > > my nature, that retains this anger and anxiety. While
                > > I may have been clairvoyant before... what I am seeing
                > > now may not, in fact, be this clairvoyance but this
                > > anger and anxiety sneeking into my conciousness.
                > > Possibly to frighten me out of continuing to seek
                > > enlightenment. Is this correct?
                > >
                > > Also, how can such a thing "rob us from ground
                > > gained"? What do you need to do in order to avoid
                > > such a thing?
                > >
                > > I realize I am inexperienced so I appreciate your help
                > > (everyone in the group for that matter). This state
                > > is actually not something I initially desired... I was
                > > simply trying to relax and it happened (interestingly
                > > enough it was the first time I had meditated outside).
                > > I want to let you know that I am humble and realize
                > > how "green" I am... I am simply a person who has taken
                > > to the art with significantly more ease than others.
                > > Your help is greatly appreciated.
                > >
                > > Thank you for your response,
                > > Ben
                > > P.S. Do you know of anyone in the chicagoland area
                > > that is experienced enough to help me with such
                > > matters?
                > >
                > > --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@> wrote:
                > >
                > > > Hi Ben -
                > > >
                > > > While the mystic experience is rare,
                > > > this group most probably has several,
                > > > if not quite a few, who can relate
                > > > to your story from similar direct
                > > > experience.
                > > >
                > > > The shift to what you wrote of as,
                > > > "consciousness of everything" and the
                > > > clarity, compassion and comfort
                > > > (peace of mind)is a common result.
                > > > The clairvoyant part, and the
                > > > occasions of deja vu, are not as
                > > > common, but many people report them,
                > > > as well.
                > > >
                > > > My experience, personally, and in
                > > > teaching meditation for the past 30
                > > > years has been that the former level
                > > > of conscious of which you wrote -
                > > > that anxious, needy "former self"
                > > > - often referred to as "ego",
                > > > is very sneaky, and does not
                > > > give up its attempt to regain the
                > > > dominant position in our consciousness.
                > > >
                > > > "It" can impose upon our imagination
                > > > in the guise of clairvoyance. In
                > > > this way, it will play upon our
                > > > "spiritual pride" and can trap us
                > > > in a return to "vain imaginings"
                > > > that are not a product of our
                > > > enlightenment. This is quicksand,
                > > > and can rob us of the ground gained,
                > > > in great part. It takes keen
                > > > discernment and abject honesty
                > > > with ourselves to be able to spot
                > > > this distinction.
                > > >
                > > > This is when a mature teacher or
                > > > "guru" can help guide an innocently
                > > > deluded "seeker" who has egoistically
                > > > talked themselves into claiming
                > > > enlightenment or even "Guru" status,
                > > > (Jody and Bruce - members here, can
                > > > speak knowledgeably, and sometimes
                > > > a bit jadedly, about this) and newbie
                > > > enlightened ones.
                > > >
                > > > Even when the enlightenment
                > > > experience seems, and is "known"
                > > > as, absolutely complete, there is
                > > > still a maintenance that is
                > > > required to continue to reap
                > > > the harvest of this new level
                > > > of consciousness. It is easy to
                > > > ignore this, because the new
                > > > enlightenment is so pure and
                > > > powerful that it feel invulnerable.
                > > >
                > > > In great part, it is, but while
                > > > we are still living in the material
                > > > world (thanks, Madonna) we are
                > > > subject to a "warring" faction -
                > > > in our own internal lives - as we see
                > > > manifested externally in the worldly
                > > > activity of war in the name of God.
                > > >
                > > > A red flag for spotting this activity is
                > > > is when we feel a negative anticipation,
                > > > or stuggle. The ego feeds on struggle
                > > > and will step up the internal dialogue.
                > > > And this is the antithesis of meditation
                > > > as a waking consciousness. If we feed
                > > > the struggle, we are in effect giving
                > > > up our enlightened consciousness, which
                > > > is above circumstance, and returning
                > > > to a rationally-dominant concern.
                > > >
                > > > The logical or rational argument
                > > > convincingly says we must be concerned
                > > > and do our part. But our part is to
                > > > maintain the enlightened perspective
                > > > and bring peace by our positive
                > > > energy and en-"light"ened view.
                > > > This alone will contribute to the
                > > > change of consciousness, and shift
                > > > in awareness, on a global scale that
                > > > so many awakened teacher "know" as
                > > > the destiny of humankind. Whoops,
                > > > getting a little lofty now.
                > > >
                > > > I'll stop here. If you find some
                > > > resonance with this, let me know,
                > > > and I'll be happy to follow up with
                > > > you privately.
                > > >
                > > > Peace,
                > > >
                > > > Jeff
                > > >
                > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                > > > Benjamin Buehne
                > > > <benbuehne@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Hi everyone,
                > > > > My name is Ben and I just joined. It is nice
                > > > > that such a place exists, I have struggled to find
                > > > > others to relate to as far as my experiences
                > > > > meditating go. Basicly no one else I know does
                > > > it. I
                > > > > thought I would take this opportunity to share
                > > > with
                > > > > the group as far as who I am and what my
                > > > experiences
                > > > > have been like to see if anyone can relate.
                > > > >
                > > > > I used to be a fairly confused person. I
                > > > would
                > > > > generally be filled with an anger and anxiety. I
                > > > > wasn't too fun to be around. 1 day I had a panic
                > > > > attack... they continued and actually got stronger
                > > > as
                > > > > I had more of them.
                > > > >
                > > > > I heard about the effects of meditation and
                > > > gave
                > > > > it a shot. It worked fairly well for me... I
                > > > wasn't
                > > > > as angry and the panic attacks stopped. I made
                > > > > meditation a regular habit although I didn't have
                > > > > panic attacks, just to maintain. I taught myself
                > > > how
                > > > > to do this.
                > > > >
                > > > > One day, something happened though. I was
                > > > > actually in college and studying for finals. I
                > > > was
                > > > > feeling stressed out so I decided to meditate. It
                > > > was
                > > > > then that I had what others have described as a
                > > > mystic
                > > > > experience. A conciousness of everything, without
                > > > > thought. I was filled with energy afterwords and
                > > > a
                > > > > sense of elightment.
                > > > >
                > > > > It was then that I started to notice changes
                > > > in
                > > > > myself. I wouldn't ever lose my temper. Nothing
                > > > > really got to me... anxiety wasn't an issue and I
                > > > no
                > > > > longer had fears that I previously had. I went
                > > > from a
                > > > > C student to an A student. I felt more compassion
                > > > for
                > > > > others. Although I was raised catholic...
                > > > previously
                > > > > I hadn't been very religious. Afterwords I was
                > > > > certain of there being something else...
                > > > >
                > > > > Having this mystic experience became fairly
                > > > easy
                > > > > for me. I would be able to achieve it almost
                > > > every
                > > > > time I meditated. It was at this point in time
                > > > that I
                > > > > noticed a clairvoyance. I had prior knowledge of
                > > > the
                > > > > future.
                > > > >
                > > > > Now many may call me crazy... but I work in
                > > > the
                > > > > mental health field and really experience no
                > > > symptoms
                > > > > of mental illness. This clairvoyance can be
                > > > > described. It's like deja-vu. It is as if I
                > > > remember
                > > > > these things... although at times I need something
                > > > to
                > > > > jog my memory (a trigger). Then, later... I watch
                > > > as
                > > > > things happened exactly as I had "remembered."
                > > > >
                > > > > This did disturb me however... I didn't
                > > > always
                > > > > like what I saw. For a period of time I stopped
                > > > > meditating in hopes that this would go away... and
                > > > to
                > > > > an extent it did. However, I was drawn back into
                > > > > meditating and again took to it with ease.
                > > > >
                > > > > That brings me to why I am here... as again
                > > > with
                > > > > meditating I have the mystic experience. I again
                > > > was
                > > > > clairvoyant... which was fine until recently.
                > > > > Recently , again, what I have seen has disturbed
                > > > me.
                > > > > I am talking about things on a global scale as
                > > > well...
                > > >
                > > === message truncated ===
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > __________________________________________________
                > > Do You Yahoo!?
                > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                > >
                >
              • Benjamin Buehne
                Thank you very much Jeff and Aideen- I understand what you are saying and will take the advice to heart. What you are saying is true Jeff... it has been a
                Message 7 of 8 , Jul 16, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thank you very much Jeff and Aideen-

                  I understand what you are saying and will take
                  the advice to heart. What you are saying is true
                  Jeff... it has been a distraction and distressing...
                  thus I haven't maintained very well. The truth is...
                  if what I "remembered" is true or not really doesn't
                  matter... as there is nothing I could do about it
                  anyways. I must simply take my place.

                  With Gratitude,
                  Ben

                  --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:

                  > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                  > "aideenmck"
                  > <aideenmck@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi, Ben
                  > >
                  > > I think what Jeff means is that it's not the
                  > experience of
                  > > clairvoyance that's the potential trap, but rather
                  > one's
                  > attachment
                  > > to it.
                  > > Is that right, Jeff?
                  > >
                  > > Aideen
                  >
                  > Yes, that and the fact that the "ego"
                  > can come with "imaginings" disguised
                  > as clairvoyance. And this can lead
                  > back to the place where we feel we
                  > have lost our enlightened perspective
                  > - back to "trying to figure out"...
                  > anything. Clarity has no questions.
                  > And, as you know, no attachments.
                  >
                  > Notice that Ben is still identifying
                  > himself as a seeker of enlightenment,
                  > rather than a "finder" who can simply
                  > attune to it.
                  >
                  > Jerry Wennstrom, in his book, "The
                  > Inspired Heart" wrote "The singular
                  > requirement of grace is to remain
                  > fearlessly attuned to the heart."
                  >
                  > Ramana Maharshi said, "The aspirant
                  > meditates to attain. The awakened
                  > meditate to maintain."
                  >
                  > In the Tibetan Book of The Dead,
                  > there is an admonition not to "follow
                  > the elephant tracks, once you have
                  > found the elephant.".
                  >
                  > So, my advice to Ben was to stay
                  > attuned to the heart - his beautiful
                  > experience that released him from
                  > anger and anxiey, and not enter
                  > a "wrestling match" with the issue
                  > of clairvoyance. Let it happen, but
                  > abandon it when it presents fear
                  > or doubt.
                  >
                  > Thanks.
                  >
                  > Jeff
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                  > Benjamin Buehne
                  > > <benbuehne@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks Jeff-
                  > > >
                  > > > I think I understand what you are saying but I
                  > would
                  > > > like to clarify. Basicly, there is a part of
                  > me, in
                  > > > my nature, that retains this anger and anxiety.
                  > While
                  > > > I may have been clairvoyant before... what I am
                  > seeing
                  > > > now may not, in fact, be this clairvoyance but
                  > this
                  > > > anger and anxiety sneeking into my conciousness.
                  >
                  > > > Possibly to frighten me out of continuing to
                  > seek
                  > > > enlightenment. Is this correct?
                  > > >
                  > > > Also, how can such a thing "rob us from ground
                  > > > gained"? What do you need to do in order to
                  > avoid
                  > > > such a thing?
                  > > >
                  > > > I realize I am inexperienced so I appreciate
                  > your help
                  > > > (everyone in the group for that matter). This
                  > state
                  > > > is actually not something I initially desired...
                  > I was
                  > > > simply trying to relax and it happened
                  > (interestingly
                  > > > enough it was the first time I had meditated
                  > outside).
                  > > > I want to let you know that I am humble and
                  > realize
                  > > > how "green" I am... I am simply a person who has
                  > taken
                  > > > to the art with significantly more ease than
                  > others.
                  > > > Your help is greatly appreciated.
                  > > >
                  > > > Thank you for your response,
                  > > > Ben
                  > > > P.S. Do you know of anyone in the chicagoland
                  > area
                  > > > that is experienced enough to help me with such
                  > > > matters?
                  > > >
                  > > > --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > > Hi Ben -
                  > > > >
                  > > > > While the mystic experience is rare,
                  > > > > this group most probably has several,
                  > > > > if not quite a few, who can relate
                  > > > > to your story from similar direct
                  > > > > experience.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The shift to what you wrote of as,
                  > > > > "consciousness of everything" and the
                  > > > > clarity, compassion and comfort
                  > > > > (peace of mind)is a common result.
                  > > > > The clairvoyant part, and the
                  > > > > occasions of deja vu, are not as
                  > > > > common, but many people report them,
                  > > > > as well.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > My experience, personally, and in
                  > > > > teaching meditation for the past 30
                  > > > > years has been that the former level
                  > > > > of conscious of which you wrote -
                  > > > > that anxious, needy "former self"
                  > > > > - often referred to as "ego",
                  > > > > is very sneaky, and does not
                  > > > > give up its attempt to regain the
                  > > > > dominant position in our consciousness.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > "It" can impose upon our imagination
                  > > > > in the guise of clairvoyance. In
                  > > > > this way, it will play upon our
                  > > > > "spiritual pride" and can trap us
                  > > > > in a return to "vain imaginings"
                  > > > > that are not a product of our
                  > > > > enlightenment. This is quicksand,
                  > > > > and can rob us of the ground gained,
                  > > > > in great part. It takes keen
                  > > > > discernment and abject honesty
                  > > > > with ourselves to be able to spot
                  > > > > this distinction.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > This is when a mature teacher or
                  > > > > "guru" can help guide an innocently
                  > > > > deluded "seeker" who has egoistically
                  > > > > talked themselves into claiming
                  > > > > enlightenment or even "Guru" status,
                  > > > > (Jody and Bruce - members here, can
                  > > > > speak knowledgeably, and sometimes
                  > > > > a bit jadedly, about this) and newbie
                  > > > > enlightened ones.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Even when the enlightenment
                  > > > > experience seems, and is "known"
                  > > > > as, absolutely complete, there is
                  > > > > still a maintenance that is
                  > > > > required to continue to reap
                  > > > > the harvest of this new level
                  > > > > of consciousness. It is easy to
                  > > > > ignore this, because the new
                  > > > > enlightenment is so pure and
                  > > > > powerful that it feel invulnerable.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > In great part, it is, but while
                  > > > > we are still living in the material
                  > > > > world (thanks, Madonna) we are
                  > > > > subject to a "warring" faction -
                  > > > > in our own internal lives - as we see
                  > > > > manifested externally in the worldly
                  > > > > activity of war in the name of God.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > A red flag for spotting this activity is
                  > > > > is when we feel a negative anticipation,
                  > > > > or stuggle. The ego feeds on struggle
                  > > > > and will step up the internal dialogue.
                  > > > > And this is the antithesis of meditation
                  > > > > as a waking consciousness. If we feed
                  > > > > the struggle, we are in effect giving
                  > > > > up our enlightened consciousness, which
                  > > > > is above circumstance, and returning
                  > > > > to a rationally-dominant concern.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The logical or rational argument
                  > > > > convincingly says we must be concerned
                  > > > > and do our part. But our part is to
                  > > > > maintain the enlightened perspective
                  > > > > and bring peace by our positive
                  > > > > energy and en-"light"ened view.
                  > > > > This alone will contribute to the
                  > > > > change of consciousness, and shift
                  >
                  === message truncated ===


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