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Distinction between human incarnation of Lord & original Lord

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  • prakki surya
    As long as the human incarnation is alive there is no distinction between the original Lord and the human incarnation because the original Lord merges and
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 9, 2006
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      As long as the human incarnation is alive there is no distinction between the original Lord and the human incarnation because the original Lord merges and pervades all over the human incarnation from top to bottom. The Lord created this Universe for His entertainment through His inherent power called ‘Maya’. The Maya is modified into the world and not the Lord. But Maya cannot exist without the Lord and therefore the Lord is the real cause of this Universe. The Lord is not modified and so remains unchanged. Thus the Lord is only indirect cause of this Universe. The sunlight is trapped by a solar heater and is converted into heat. By this, the Sun is not converted into heat, but still the cause of the heat is only the Sun. The Lord can be compared to a daydreamer who is aware of Himself and the dream and also enjoys under the influence of self-imposed apparent ignorance. Thus the essence of the creation is only the ignorance. Ignorance helps the enjoyment. Ignorance of the truth is falsehood and the falsehood also leads to true experience. For example:- We experience the matter when our finger does not penetrate through a solid. Infact according to Science the solid is mainly vaccume only. The matter in that vaccume which consists of sub-atomic particles is very very negligible. But still our finger is not penetrating through the solid due to the force of the kinetic energy of these particles. But in experience the force is not experienced. The solid nature of the matter is experienced. Thus a false thing also can create true experience like a true thing. As far as this illusion leading to the true experience is concerned, the Lord is in par with any individual soul. But the difference is that the individual soul is unable to over come this ignorance and its experience, where as the Lord overcomes this at any instance. The individual soul is under the control of the ignorance like a dreamer in the sleep. The individual soul is a tiny particle of the huge dream. In the case of the Lord, the whole dream is a tiny particle of the Lord. Therefore the Universe is controlled by the Lord where as the individual soul is controlled by the Universe. For the Lord, the Universe is true as far as the experience in the enjoyment is concerned. But at the same time there is a basic stream of the true knowledge at any instance. For the individual soul that basic stream is absent.
       
      A daydreamer has entered the dream through his own duplicate imaginary form. With such imaginary form the dreamer is completely identifying himself. The will of the dreamer is exactly the will of his imaginary form. When another imaginary form called as the individual soul (Jeeva) touches the imaginary form of the Lord, the original Lord gets the experience of that touch. The original Lord speaks through that imaginary form. When the Jeeva sees that imaginary form, the Jeeva has seen the original Lord. This unity between the original Lord and His imaginary form is the monoism (Advaita) as propagated by Sankara. The Lord created the entire Universe and forms its basis, but the Lord is not identifying Himself with the creation. Thus the individual soul cannot be treated as the original Lord through Advaita. The liberated and blessed souls who are the servants of the Lord are also identified with the Lord through Advaita. But such liberated souls cannot be the creator and the basis of this Universe. The original Lord can withdraw Himself from such liberated souls if they fall under the influence of egoism. But in the case of His imaginary form, which is called as the human incarnation (Avatara Purusha), such withdrawal cannot take place because there is no difference between the original Lord and His human incarnation. The original Lord withdraws from the human incarnation only at the time of its end or death. No individual soul can cross the boundary of the dream and can see the original Lord. The human incarnation need not see the original Lord because there is no difference between the two. Even great scholars mis-understand this concept and neglect the Lord in human form. The Lord in human form alone can give the complete bliss to the human being, but the human being is unable to receive it due to the negligence caused by the common plane (the gross body made of five elements) between the human being and human incarnation. The Lord in the higher plane covered by the energetic body cannot give the complete bliss though negligence on the Lord does not exist. But when the human being leaves the gross body and goes to the upper world covered by energetic body, it neglects the Lord in the energetic body following the same principle of common plane. Therefore when ever there is possibility of receiving the complete bliss negligence hinders it. When ever negligence vanishes the possbility of receiving the full bliss vanishes. This is the whole problem that hinders the salvation of human beings. Therefore one can attain the salvation and become near and dear to the Lord only when he or she crosses out the negligence in the common plane. Hanuman and Gopikas could cross such negligence and were blessed by the human incarnations i.e., Rama and Krishna respectively.


       
      at the lotus of shri datta swami

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    • jodyrrr
      ... So what you are saying is that God is a psychotically grandiose nincompoop who just can t catch a clue that hardly anyone wants to hear him ranting about
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 12, 2006
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya <dattapr2000@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > As long as the human incarnation is alive there is no distinction between the original
        > Lord and the human incarnation

        So what you are saying is that God is a psychotically grandiose nincompoop who
        just can't catch a clue that hardly anyone wants to hear him ranting about himself.
      • prakki surya
        What is the appropriate way of posing a question (Pari Prashna) to the Guru? Pari Prashna means a question that can be posed to your Guru or a scholar. In
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 13, 2006
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          What is the appropriate way of posing a question (Pari Prashna) to the Guru?
          Pari Prashna means a question that can be posed to your Guru or a scholar.  In order to know the truth if you are asking the Guru, you must salute and serve Him.  If you ask a scholar, salutation and service are not necessary.  But your question should be only an enquiry, which should not have the tone of mocking or abusing.  You can contradict the point of the scholar or Guru by quoting from an equal authority in spirituality.  You must quote Shruti [Veda] against Shruti or Smriti [secondary scripture] against Smriti.  Of course, if you quote Shruti against Smriti then the Smriti is rejected [since Shruti is the highest authority in spirituality].  While debating and posing questions, you must have an equal logic. Discussion should be between two equal scholars.
           
           Prashna means question. Pari means the question, which is associated with equal authority, logic and experience.  Experience, logic and Smriti should follow Shruti [Any experience, logic or quotations from the Smriti that contradict the Shruti cannot be taken as valid].  You should confine to the point only. Even if you win in your point, you should not mock or scold the opponent, even if the opponent mocks or scolds you. You must leave the opponent for the punishment to be given by the Lord.  You should not punish him. 
           
          When Ramanuja contradicted the commentary of Shankara, He never mentioned the name of Shankara. He only mentioned the disciples of Shankara.  He never used any foul language in His commentary.  A scholar called Bellamkonda Rama Rao scolded Ramanuja as a child (Shishu) and animal (Pashu).  Ramanuja was the incarnation of ‘Adi Sesha’ [the Divine Cobra of Lord Maha Vishnu].  This scholar died at his thirty eighth year by the bite of a poisonous creature. You can easily convince a scholar or ignorant person but never a fellow who argues with egoism and jealousy and who possesses little knowledge. When Indra came and posed a question to Lord Brahma, Brahma disappeared without answering Indra. The personal assistant of Brahma called Uma appeared and told Indra to do penance for a thousand years to talk with Brahma because Indra was egoistic at that time.  Thus you should not discuss with a fellow having half knowledge.  It will be like throwing a stone in a pond of mud [it will splash and soil your clothes]. When you have a doubt on the point of the opponent, you must have all the good manners to pose the doubt. You should not resort to scolding or mocking in the first step itself even if the point of the opponent is wrong. When an employee goes wrong, a polite memo should be given asking for an explanation before taking action. The aim of all discussions must be only to find out the truth. This is called as Vada Maryada, which means the minimum dignity and decorum in discussion. 
           
          Ancient sages maintained this throughout their spiritual discussions (Satsanga).  Otherwise the satsanga becomes only the barking of two village dogs.  In the spiritual path you must get rid of anger, jealousy and egoism.  Without removing these three, you can never attain the grace of the Lord.  Shankara says that Shama and Dama are required for spiritual path.  Shama means controlling the inner senses (anger, jealousy and egoism).  Dama means controlling the outer senses like your tongue.
           
          at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
          surya
          www.universal-spirituality.org

          jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
          --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, prakki surya <dattapr2000@ ...>
          wrote:
          >
          > As long as the human incarnation is alive there is no distinction between the original
          > Lord and the human incarnation

          So what you are saying is that God is a psychotically grandiose nincompoop who
          just can't catch a clue that hardly anyone wants to hear him ranting about himself._._,_.___

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        • jodyrrr
          ... wrote: [snip] ... Then practice what you preach and take your self-aggrandizing nonsense to the garbage dump where it belongs.
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 13, 2006
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya <dattapr2000@...>
            wrote:

            [snip]

            > Dama means controlling the outer senses like your tongue.

            Then practice what you preach and take your self-aggrandizing nonsense
            to the garbage dump where it belongs.
          • Silent Thunder
            right on jodyrrr jodyrrr wrote: --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya wrote: [snip]
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 13, 2006
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              right on jodyrrr

              jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
              --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, prakki surya <dattapr2000@ ...>
              wrote:

              [snip]

              > Dama means controlling the outer senses like your tongue.

              Then practice what you preach and take your self-aggrandizing nonsense
              to the garbage dump where it belongs.


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            • Silent Thunder
              hey jodyrrr i think this guy s tryin to say that you re an egoistic rat. Let s beat him to the ground. Anyways, you don t gotta kiss a guy s feet to make him
              Message 6 of 6 , Jun 13, 2006
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                hey jodyrrr i think this guy's tryin to say that you're an egoistic rat. Let's beat him to the ground.
                 
                Anyways, you don't gotta kiss a guy's feet to make him tell you what you need.
                A real guru wouldn't demand or need that. That's because there are no two beings in reality. There is only one.

                prakki surya <dattapr2000@...> wrote:
                What is the appropriate way of posing a question (Pari Prashna) to the Guru?
                Pari Prashna means a question that can be posed to your Guru or a scholar.  In order to know the truth if you are asking the Guru, you must salute and serve Him.  If you ask a scholar, salutation and service are not necessary.  But your question should be only an enquiry, which should not have the tone of mocking or abusing.  You can contradict the point of the scholar or Guru by quoting from an equal authority in spirituality.  You must quote Shruti [Veda] against Shruti or Smriti [secondary scripture] against Smriti.  Of course, if you quote Shruti against Smriti then the Smriti is rejected [since Shruti is the highest authority in spirituality].  While debating and posing questions, you must have an equal logic. Discussion should be between two equal scholars.
                 
                 Prashna means question. Pari means the question, which is associated with equal authority, logic and experience.  Experience, logic and Smriti should follow Shruti [Any experience, logic or quotations from the Smriti that contradict the Shruti cannot be taken as valid].  You should confine to the point only. Even if you win in your point, you should not mock or scold the opponent, even if the opponent mocks or scolds you. You must leave the opponent for the punishment to be given by the Lord.  You should not punish him. 
                 
                When Ramanuja contradicted the commentary of Shankara, He never mentioned the name of Shankara. He only mentioned the disciples of Shankara.  He never used any foul language in His commentary.  A scholar called Bellamkonda Rama Rao scolded Ramanuja as a child (Shishu) and animal (Pashu).  Ramanuja was the incarnation of ‘Adi Sesha’ [the Divine Cobra of Lord Maha Vishnu].  This scholar died at his thirty eighth year by the bite of a poisonous creature. You can easily convince a scholar or ignorant person but never a fellow who argues with egoism and jealousy and who possesses little knowledge. When Indra came and posed a question to Lord Brahma, Brahma disappeared without answering Indra. The personal assistant of Brahma called Uma appeared and told Indra to do penance for a thousand years to talk with Brahma because Indra was egoistic at that time.  Thus you should not discuss with a fellow having half knowledge.  It will be like throwing a stone in a pond of mud [it will splash and soil your clothes]. When you have a doubt on the point of the opponent, you must have all the good manners to pose the doubt. You should not resort to scolding or mocking in the first step itself even if the point of the opponent is wrong. When an employee goes wrong, a polite memo should be given asking for an explanation before taking action. The aim of all discussions must be only to find out the truth. This is called as Vada Maryada, which means the minimum dignity and decorum in discussion. 
                 
                Ancient sages maintained this throughout their spiritual discussions (Satsanga).  Otherwise the satsanga becomes only the barking of two village dogs.  In the spiritual path you must get rid of anger, jealousy and egoism.  Without removing these three, you can never attain the grace of the Lord.  Shankara says that Shama and Dama are required for spiritual path.  Shama means controlling the inner senses (anger, jealousy and egoism).  Dama means controlling the outer senses like your tongue.
                 
                at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
                surya
                www.universal-spirituality.org

                jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
                --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, prakki surya <dattapr2000@ ...>
                wrote:
                >
                > As long as the human incarnation is alive there is no distinction between the original
                > Lord and the human incarnation

                So what you are saying is that God is a psychotically grandiose nincompoop who
                just can't catch a clue that hardly anyone wants to hear him ranting about himself._._,_.___

                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                http://mail.yahoo.com

                __________________________________________________
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