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Re: For G and Mirela

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  • Jeff Belyea <jeff@mindgoal.com>
    Thank you, Mirela, for drawing out these wonderful teachings from one who is so willing to share her enlightened wisdom. What a joy to read your exchange.
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 29, 2002
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      Thank you,
      Mirela,
      for drawing
      out these
      wonderful
      teachings
      from one
      who is
      so willing
      to share
      her enlightened
      wisdom.
      What a joy
      to read
      your exchange.
      Beautiful.
      Clarity.
      Bliss.

      Namaskar,
      Ganga.

      Jeff
    • Jason <jfishman2@msn.com>
      G, How truly insightful the words you write. Words to the I unexperienced are only mere words and can be found in many texts. Your energies toward others
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 29, 2002
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        G,

        How truly insightful the words you write. Words to the "I"
        unexperienced are only mere words and can be found in many texts.
        Your energies toward others eternal peace is always a wonderful read.

        Mirela,

        What magnificent questions! The peace you write of is sought by
        many, it is not the peace eternal. Through this site and many others
        that have touched the "beyond" (for lack of a better description)
        there are tools that may help you see the meaning of the words that
        G has written. Many forms of meditation practices are available, as
        well as, libraries full of text that are at the disposal for others
        looking "beyond" the "i" (morality, society, change, form and
        knowledge are just a few of the basis of "i"). Only within ones self
        will one find the truth, for it is within, that all begins and ends.

        Peace on your journey



        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "G
        <crystalkundalini@h...>" <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, mirela basa
        > <basamirela@y...> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > Hello G,
        > Hello and Namaste-
        > >
        > > I think people can share the answers that they have
        > > found, but it will be just that: sharing and nothing
        > > more. As there aren't two persons on the Earth that
        > > are the same, one's answers couldn't fit to the
        > > other's life.
        >
        > G: i am not addressing relative answers... nor relative knowledge
        > which is transient.. i am addressing the Unchanging Eternal Truth
        > which Changes Not... there is a vast differance between the
        two...
        >
        > i agree until the Eternal Truth is known one lives in a
        universe
        > of thier own colorations and each is in a world of thier own
        > making... no two live life the same Except those that are within
        the
        > world but no longer of it.... until then what you say is true
        > enough but i say in all honesty that there is a way out of the
        world
        > of conditionings .....
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > B: The first step to the wisdom is self knowing. So, maybe the
        other
        > can help only here: to know yourself better.
        >
        > G: i agree... this is why i work with people one to one so that
        > they can find out HOW to come to Know the Essense of Self versus
        the
        > relational ego identity which is viewed as the self in its
        entirety..
        > This can only happen when you are no longer chasing the externals
        to
        > try to find out who you are but instead go within and find out
        what
        > you are NOT until only that which is unmoving Remains...
        >
        >
        > B: I don't know what the Truth is, or where is, but i do
        > > know that once you've found yourself being in the true way you
        are,
        > and doing everything as your true being says, that is truth for
        me.
        >
        > G: how can you make that statement after saying that you don't
        know
        > what the Truth is? that is a rationalization of simply following
        the
        > ego desires and accepting that is what propels who you are... but
        if
        > you are content within this then fine go for it... but you will
        find
        > that it brings you no lasting happiness or peace ...
        >
        > B: That makes me fear less, and gives me courage to move on. The
        more
        > is true, the less is fear...
        >
        > G: then rather than chase fantasy's Stop and start to go within
        > question what you are ... Live your highest Truth and Live from
        > Gratitude and Love... Those are high ideals and will give you a
        > focus to start... There is Nothing to Fear except living in
        > continued ignorance which is what causes and continues the path of
        > pain or chasing false desires taking them to be paths to
        > fulfillment... Seek to experience Truth above all... Start with
        > Gratitude and then move into Love...
        >
        > B: > If the answers are not in the mind and not in the feelings,
        than
        > where are they?
        >
        > G: they are Not in the relative world or it's outcomes... it is
        > beyond within the Source... when you have surrendered your all to
        > Source then Grace will come.. Grace pulls one into Source..
        where
        > the illusion of the world is dispelled and the Truth is KNOWN at
        core
        > level... no longer a conjecture but as a FACT... in THAT moment
        > the search ends and Life is Lived.. you must go there through
        the
        > Heart.. i speak not to the heart of feelings and emotions but the
        > Heart of Truth which is within where no within or without
        remains...
        > It may indeed be entered into... you are a Temple of the Living
        God
        > and within is where Truth is found...
        >
        >
        > B: Everything is relative on this Universe!!
        >
        > G: this is why Christ said be in the world but Not of it... i am
        > not speaking to the relative Universe.. yet if you KNOW from
        > which it springs you will KNOW the relative Universe as it
        IS...
        > if you KNOW yourself then you will Know from where it
        springs...
        >
        > B: And everything is changing!!
        >
        > G: within the relative yes... that is so... within the Infinite
        > Source it is eternally the Unchanging Truth... Once that is
        > Known then you have a Stable Foundation.. you know while the
        > Universe is ever in flux it remains within and permeated by
        the
        > Unchanging Constant and minus the personal identity you are
        THAT.
        >
        > B: > Everything is born and after a while is dying...
        >
        > G: only form which is from the earthly elements falls away...
        > the form is only a vehicle of experience within this plane of
        > existance but you are beyond and more than this plane of
        > existance....
        >
        > B: > creatures, plants, stars etc.. There is a path that we
        > > are following... everyone has a path of it's own... i
        > > have my path and i shall follow it. But it's up to me
        > > to let the things flow (in the right way) or to interveen and
        make
        > my own stream...
        >
        > G: yes everyone has Free Will... and may stay following the
        > transient and caught within the web of their own spinning...
        > chasing desire after empty desire.. coming round after round
        > into birth and death within this physical plane of form or may
        > move forward to more subtle planes and higher awareness...
        > No one says that you have to be liberated... you have a right
        > to your life whatever it is as long as you do not cause the
        > suffering to others and in that you will pay the karmic debts
        > that you create...
        >
        > B: > What is "BEYOND"?
        >
        > G: hahahahaha BEYOND is what the rational mind cannot cognise nor
        > see... it is THAT which is beyond the 5 senses not seen with
        > physical eyes or ears...
        >
        > B: Where is that?
        >
        > G: it is everywhere present but not known nor seen unless Divine
        > Eyes and Wisdom are opened...
        >
        > B: What does it mean? Is it easy to get there (beyond)?
        >
        > G: for some it is easier than others... but it comes only when
        one
        > truly within their heart of hearts desires to KNOW and Cognise
        > The Truth or God.. it takes being able to lay yourself on the
        > sacrificial altar of truth until only the Source remains...
        > The ornament of personal self is melted and refined until the
        > Substance of Gold is known from which it was created from...
        > The vision of the Ornament receeds and the Substance which is
        > ever pure is KNOWN to be the Truth of its existance... the form
        > which it finds itself in is simply due to the fashioning of
        > external elements and conditioning - the worker fashions it
        into
        > a unique piece but the substance remains ever the same...
        > Core Self is the Substance of the Eternal ONE that One has no
        > relationship with other but is Whole as IS.....
        >
        > B: I don't see a problem in "the changing I", uncontrarely, i see
        it
        > is a good thing, what would we do if we won't ever change?
        >
        > G: hahahahaha as long as an "I" remains there will be change...
        with
        > form all changes... but beyond the relative I cognition is THAT
        > which is Beyond Birth and Death... there is only LIFE for death
        does
        > not touch that ONE... death touches the finite illusion and the
        > dream of the dreamer... but you are in Truth not this finite
        > creation... Truth is Unchanging.. Reality which the transient
        > rests within and is permeated by does not change... Only the outer
        > layer changes like the panorama of a movie across and empty
        > unchanging screen... the Light that makes the vision seen is the
        > reflection of Source... the intellect which gives the ability to
        > know and cognise is also the outcome or reflection of Source...
        >
        > B: I would like to change (in the better)!!
        >
        > G: the personality changes while the Source is unchanging and is
        Pure
        > as IS.... it is the mind that changes and with the mind the
        > actions...
        > When the Purity Is Known then actions will come into alignment
        with
        > THAT Knowing...
        >
        > B: I don't think that others can give you any guidance... i
        believe
        > > that the only guidance that may be true is the one from our
        heart.
        >
        > G: yes others may give Guidance but you must walk the way
        yourself...
        > others that have already walked the path inwards Know the way
        and
        > the detours that the ego self would take and get lost within...
        > One that has mastered the Maze knows its turns and twists and
        > route ... others attempting to find it on their own have an
        > infinitely more difficult time of it...
        >
        > B: To feel it's right! What is the "Source"? My ego is
        manageable...
        > it can change...
        >
        > G: hahahahaha and so the ego thinks.... Has ego brought you
        Peace?
        > has Ego brought you lasting Joy and Knowing the Eternal from
        the
        > transient? Can Ego dispel the illusion of death? the ego -
        > which clings to the form and transient is death...
        >
        > B: > depends on my inner state. What i don't understand is why
        > people want to get rid of the past, when the past is the only
        thing
        > that helps them understand?!
        >
        > G: as long as you are caught up in past things then you are not
        NOW..
        > if it can be viewed with dispassion then one can see through
        the
        > fallacy of pasts mis-adventures... you either live NOW or not
        > at all... can you bring back a past happening? No..
        > you cannot cling to a past event of glory nor can you dispel
        > a past event of pain by trying to re-create it and resolve
        it...
        > it may simply be seen as coming from ignorance and when the
        > truth of it all is cognised it no longer has a hold upon the
        > Now...
        >
        >
        > B: So here's how i see the things: there is the past – the
        history,
        > to be analysed – and the the heart –which represents the present
        in
        > this case. In order to do a change to myself i use those tools. In
        > order to make a decision, i use those tools..
        >
        > G: if you can do with without reaction... for most are not seeing
        > clearly but instead reacting to situations based upon past...
        > a reaction is not making a rational decision but simply having
        > an immediate response to a situation which is most often blown
        > out of proportion to the unfolding event at hand... IF on
        > the other hand one is in the moment without reacting to a past
        > event then there is clarity to see the unfolding situation at
        > present in clarity without the glasses of past conditioning...
        > One can use witnessing or being a step back from what is
        > unfolding to learn from and change the patterns that have been
        > established from past events that are reations.. if you are
        > far enough removed from the drama at hand you Can see the
        patterns
        > enquire into them and then they will fall....
        >
        >
        > B: everything that i do and will do i'll use those tools...
        > > So, this is me: a mind, a soul and a consciousness which i think
        is
        > the witness you are talking about)--there is nothing relative in
        > that. What i know is that i started existing since my parents made
        > > me and i will stop being when i will die (because i
        > > think that without a conscious people don't exist.
        >
        > G: so start where you are and find out if that is true or not...
        > What is consciousness? is it attached to a brain? is it
        > attached to a body form? those that have experienced out of
        > body experiences Know that it is not... in meditation one can
        > know that it depends not on the body in the least... the body
        > must have consciousness to operate but consciousness does not
        > need a gross body to live... there is the gross form and a
        > subtle form and the subtle form is ongoing...
        >
        > B: > When people die, their mind, soul and conscious dies
        > > too)..
        >
        > G: on what evidence do you have that you can make that
        statement?
        > you do not Know that to be truth but have accepted as a
        concept
        > that it is so....
        >
        > B: So, this world exists as long as i exist. When i shall not be
        > anymore, this world will stop existing for me... Perception is the
        > one that makes us see the things around us. My perception will
        stop
        > when i'll close my eyes forever..
        >
        > G: so why try to change anything or be better if you truly
        beleive
        > that you are some finite creature? if you truly believe that
        > death is the end then why to be better at all? it is because
        > death is Not the end and that within people have a conscience
        > which speaks to this fact... it might be slight but it is
        there
        > for they have lived many times before and will live again the
        > same unfolding dramas until the Truth sets them free from their
        > own creations...
        >
        > B: > What is Jnana?
        >
        > G: it is the path of Direct Knowledge.. it is one in which the
        > seeker is guided to find out the wisdom and truth within
        > themselves.... it is not a set of facts which are *taught*
        > and told to be accepted... it is a path wherein the Teacher
        > /Guide instructs and gives the tools to go within and to
        > discover the Source that IS....
        >
        >
        > B: And what is shanti om?
        >
        > Om is the representation and eternal sound of the Formless
        > Source...
        > Shanti means Peace.... Maha-Shanti means Great Peace...
        >
        > shanti shanti Maha Shanti OM ...g...
        >
        >
        > > Thank you,
        > > mirela
        >
        > you are welcome
        >
        > .g.
      • mirela basa
        Dear Jeff, i m glad you like it, but i m just trying to make the things more clear in my head. Thank you, Mirela Jeff Belyea
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 29, 2002
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          Dear Jeff,
          i'm glad you like it, but i'm just trying to make the things more clear in my head.
          Thank you,
          Mirela
          "Jeff Belyea <jeff@...>" <jeff@...> wrote:
          Thank you,
          Mirela,
          for drawing
          out these
          wonderful
          teachings
          from one
          who is
          so willing
          to share
          her enlightened
          wisdom.
          What a joy
          to read
          your exchange.
          Beautiful.
          Clarity.
          Bliss.

          Namaskar,
          Ganga.

          Jeff



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          meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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          Athanor Publishing HouseBd. 1 Decembrie 1918Bl. 105, Ap. 10Petrosani, 2675Hunedoara, Romania0040-721-374 002


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        • G <crystalkundalini@hotmail.com>
          ... read. G: it is always difficult to penetrate that first layer into a heartfelt cognition rather than an intellectual discussion and banter of mind... but
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 29, 2002
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jason
            <jfishman2@m...>" <jfishman2@m...> wrote:
            > G,
            >
            > How truly insightful the words you write. Words to the "I"
            > unexperienced are only mere words and can be found in many texts.
            > Your energies toward others eternal peace is always a wonderful
            read.

            G: it is always difficult to penetrate that first layer into a
            heartfelt cognition rather than an intellectual discussion
            and banter of mind... but all that may be done is to keep
            giving what may be given and letting spirit do the rest...
            it is like planting seeds some reach stony ground but a few
            just might make it to where they take root and grow...

            shanti shanti maha-shanti om ...g...
          • Athanor
            Thank you Jeff, I do choose joy.. i love joy! there is nothing more beautifull in my life than the freedom.. (I used to travel a lot and i have spent a few
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 1, 2003
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              Thank you Jeff,
              I do choose joy.. i love joy! there is nothing more beautifull in my life than the freedom.. (I used to travel a lot and i have spent a few months on the mountains; i have left my parents home at 18) and this freedom brings me a lot of joy in every day of my life... Joy is the one who makes me dance, is the one who makes me open my eyes more and more to reality, joy makes me want to do everything right... as this should be the real state of a human being - JOY.

              I was saying about pain that it is a great teacher (and it always reminds me to do my "homeworks"), because i think there is a special state when one is in pains... when there is pain, there is also more atention - to both: physical body and the mind... When i'm in pains i know that i see this like a picture, and in this picture i can almost see myself laid in bed with a distorsioned face. When i have a pain, almost my entire atention goes there to "see" it..

              ps i'm very behind with the talks here.. i didn't feel very well those days

              mirela
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Jeff Belyea <jeff@...>
              To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 2:07 PM
              Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] The OK Corral


              Mirela -

              Asking questions is
              part of the purpose
              of this group as I
              read it. We all
              benefit from the
              exploration of
              consciousness, so
              please keep up the
              questions. And...

              Choose joy.

              In joy and understanding
              there is clarity and
              decisive, unencumbered
              action. Joy is not
              inactive and unaware
              or unconcerned. Joy is
              much better than that.
              Joy brings unshakable
              self-confidence, trust
              in your own judgment
              and the beautiful,
              graceful spontaneity
              of a child. Joy is
              not selfish, it is
              caring and kind and
              wise. Choose joy.

              The peaceful quiet
              of meditation opens
              the door to the real
              experience of joy -
              a fullness of joy
              that sees the entire
              world as if for the
              first time in every
              new moment, sees the
              love and goodness in
              everyone, delights in
              a sunrise, a smile,
              a hug. Bring joy
              to the world, Mirela.
              There's already
              enough pain.

              I wish you peace
              and love and joy
              and understanding
              in the new year,
              and in every new
              moment.

              Love,

              Jeff



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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jeff Belyea <jeff@mindgoal.com>
              Mirela - Pain distracts awareness, and clouds judgments. Joy focuses awareness and brings clarity. Joy is the better teacher. Love, Jeff
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 2, 2003
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                Mirela -

                Pain distracts awareness,
                and clouds judgments.
                Joy focuses awareness
                and brings clarity.

                Joy is the better teacher.

                Love,

                Jeff
              • Athanor
                300 years old mirela ... From: Jeff Belyea To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:31 PM
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 2, 2003
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                  300 years old
                  mirela
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Jeff Belyea <jeff@...>
                  To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:31 PM
                  Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: THE SAGE'S AGE


                  Mirela -

                  How old would you
                  be if you didn't
                  know how old you
                  were?

                  Love,

                  Jeff



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                • Athanor
                  i was asking you about your age because of the message below... i was just trying to be funny.. mirela ... From: Athanor To:
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 2, 2003
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                    i was asking you about your age because of the message below... i was just trying to be funny..
                    mirela
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Athanor
                    To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 7:33 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: THE SAGE'S VIEW


                    Jeff,
                    how old are you?
                    mirela
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Jeff Belyea <jeff@...>
                    To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:39 AM
                    Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: THE SAGE'S VIEW


                    Sweet friend, Judi -

                    Can you possibly keep your
                    slasher tongue in its holster
                    long enough to read more
                    than one sentence? Your
                    self-contradiction is
                    showing all over the place.
                    You say it's not joy, but you call
                    it pure joy. It's not experience
                    but you call it a new
                    perceptual condition.
                    New is necessarily experiential,
                    perception is experiential -
                    understanding is experiential.
                    Semantic hair-splitting
                    just to be an antagonist
                    is your tiresome game.

                    And speaking of place, this
                    really isn't the place for this,
                    but I'm tired of stepping
                    in your smelly bullshit
                    everywhere I go...and I want
                    a shoot out, Rocky.

                    Go ahead and run back to the ranch.
                    I'll be on your trail. I don't
                    like your style, but I grew
                    up with people who walked it
                    and talked it, and I'm willing
                    and able to stand my ground
                    against your bluster, buster.

                    I guess you don't have enough
                    to rant about at the ranch.
                    You got an extra bunk?.
                    You didn't run me off, you
                    invited me back "anytime".
                    Still a standing invitation?
                    You'll have your boys there.

                    I left because your juvenile boys
                    grew ridiculously boring.
                    They didn't scare me off, my
                    side was hurting from laughing
                    at their naivety, pompous parroting,
                    and pitiful pandering to you.
                    You talk about others wanting fawning
                    disciples. What do you have at
                    the ranch? They got nothing.
                    Less than Snarlo's Guru Raters,
                    even.

                    And get real, you jumped around
                    like a tenderfoot with someone
                    shooting at her feet when my
                    inquiries got too hot.

                    You, I challenge to duel...
                    Hot-Air filled Cream puffs
                    at 50 paces. That's about
                    all you got other than
                    a bundt pan.

                    Still reading?...

                    On July 21, 1975 at about
                    9:30am my life changed, a
                    door opened. It was not a flash,
                    not a la la la moment, it was a
                    permanent shift of identity,
                    a new awareness of a reality
                    that I had been separated
                    from - a separate reality -
                    until known, a new overriding
                    current running through my every
                    conscious moment from that
                    moment on. And it was and is
                    blissful, peaceful beyond
                    understanding, and full of joy.
                    Still is.Doesn't mean I don't have
                    a bold and bad-ass ego, or
                    that I run from a scrap.

                    Not all sages are milquetoasts,
                    the best of them have been
                    known to fashion a whip and
                    crack a few heads.

                    Whatever I choose to call
                    my awakening experience
                    cannot be negated by your
                    constant carping. Its wasted.
                    The person who entered
                    the meditation center,
                    after 24 years of seeking,
                    never left. He ceased to exit.
                    (Sound familiar?)

                    So you don't subscribe to
                    the Boddisattva vow? I do.
                    I took it. I honor it.

                    Your shots at my ego
                    are in vain. I grin
                    and bear it, because I don't
                    miss the wry smile behind
                    all your seeming ferocity.

                    But for the sake of
                    those who are here
                    for inquiry...

                    Can't you ever just shut
                    the fuck up, and let someone
                    speak without whacking them on
                    the head with your tight-ass,
                    self-righteous, know-it-all
                    table of the Judi commandments?

                    Your need to straighten
                    out all the error you
                    see in everyone else
                    might have something to
                    do with the ego you
                    consistently see
                    all around you.

                    Rude enough to win
                    you over?

                    Your blissed out bawdy friend,

                    Jeff

                    PS: My apologies to the gentle folks here
                    for this evening's R-Rated entertainment.
                    Somewhere there's a lesson here.I'm going
                    to go see what's cookin' at the ranch.



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                  • Jeff Belyea <jeff@mindgoal.com>
                    Mirela - You have great wisdom for your age. Love, Jeff
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 2, 2003
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                      Mirela -

                      You have great wisdom
                      for your age.

                      Love,

                      Jeff
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