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  • G <crystalkundalini@hotmail.com>
    ... Hello and Namaste- ... G: i am not addressing relative answers... nor relative knowledge which is transient.. i am addressing the Unchanging Eternal
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 28, 2002
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, mirela basa
      <basamirela@y...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Hello G,
      Hello and Namaste-
      >
      > I think people can share the answers that they have
      > found, but it will be just that: sharing and nothing
      > more. As there aren't two persons on the Earth that
      > are the same, one's answers couldn't fit to the
      > other's life.

      G: i am not addressing relative answers... nor relative knowledge
      which is transient.. i am addressing the Unchanging Eternal Truth
      which Changes Not... there is a vast differance between the two...

      i agree until the Eternal Truth is known one lives in a universe
      of thier own colorations and each is in a world of thier own
      making... no two live life the same Except those that are within the
      world but no longer of it.... until then what you say is true
      enough but i say in all honesty that there is a way out of the world
      of conditionings .....




      B: The first step to the wisdom is self knowing. So, maybe the other
      can help only here: to know yourself better.

      G: i agree... this is why i work with people one to one so that
      they can find out HOW to come to Know the Essense of Self versus the
      relational ego identity which is viewed as the self in its entirety..
      This can only happen when you are no longer chasing the externals to
      try to find out who you are but instead go within and find out what
      you are NOT until only that which is unmoving Remains...


      B: I don't know what the Truth is, or where is, but i do
      > know that once you've found yourself being in the true way you are,
      and doing everything as your true being says, that is truth for me.

      G: how can you make that statement after saying that you don't know
      what the Truth is? that is a rationalization of simply following the
      ego desires and accepting that is what propels who you are... but if
      you are content within this then fine go for it... but you will find
      that it brings you no lasting happiness or peace ...

      B: That makes me fear less, and gives me courage to move on. The more
      is true, the less is fear...

      G: then rather than chase fantasy's Stop and start to go within
      question what you are ... Live your highest Truth and Live from
      Gratitude and Love... Those are high ideals and will give you a
      focus to start... There is Nothing to Fear except living in
      continued ignorance which is what causes and continues the path of
      pain or chasing false desires taking them to be paths to
      fulfillment... Seek to experience Truth above all... Start with
      Gratitude and then move into Love...

      B: > If the answers are not in the mind and not in the feelings, than
      where are they?

      G: they are Not in the relative world or it's outcomes... it is
      beyond within the Source... when you have surrendered your all to
      Source then Grace will come.. Grace pulls one into Source.. where
      the illusion of the world is dispelled and the Truth is KNOWN at core
      level... no longer a conjecture but as a FACT... in THAT moment
      the search ends and Life is Lived.. you must go there through the
      Heart.. i speak not to the heart of feelings and emotions but the
      Heart of Truth which is within where no within or without remains...
      It may indeed be entered into... you are a Temple of the Living God
      and within is where Truth is found...


      B: Everything is relative on this Universe!!

      G: this is why Christ said be in the world but Not of it... i am
      not speaking to the relative Universe.. yet if you KNOW from
      which it springs you will KNOW the relative Universe as it IS...
      if you KNOW yourself then you will Know from where it springs...

      B: And everything is changing!!

      G: within the relative yes... that is so... within the Infinite
      Source it is eternally the Unchanging Truth... Once that is
      Known then you have a Stable Foundation.. you know while the
      Universe is ever in flux it remains within and permeated by the
      Unchanging Constant and minus the personal identity you are THAT.

      B: > Everything is born and after a while is dying...

      G: only form which is from the earthly elements falls away...
      the form is only a vehicle of experience within this plane of
      existance but you are beyond and more than this plane of
      existance....

      B: > creatures, plants, stars etc.. There is a path that we
      > are following... everyone has a path of it's own... i
      > have my path and i shall follow it. But it's up to me
      > to let the things flow (in the right way) or to interveen and make
      my own stream...

      G: yes everyone has Free Will... and may stay following the
      transient and caught within the web of their own spinning...
      chasing desire after empty desire.. coming round after round
      into birth and death within this physical plane of form or may
      move forward to more subtle planes and higher awareness...
      No one says that you have to be liberated... you have a right
      to your life whatever it is as long as you do not cause the
      suffering to others and in that you will pay the karmic debts
      that you create...

      B: > What is "BEYOND"?

      G: hahahahaha BEYOND is what the rational mind cannot cognise nor
      see... it is THAT which is beyond the 5 senses not seen with
      physical eyes or ears...

      B: Where is that?

      G: it is everywhere present but not known nor seen unless Divine
      Eyes and Wisdom are opened...

      B: What does it mean? Is it easy to get there (beyond)?

      G: for some it is easier than others... but it comes only when one
      truly within their heart of hearts desires to KNOW and Cognise
      The Truth or God.. it takes being able to lay yourself on the
      sacrificial altar of truth until only the Source remains...
      The ornament of personal self is melted and refined until the
      Substance of Gold is known from which it was created from...
      The vision of the Ornament receeds and the Substance which is
      ever pure is KNOWN to be the Truth of its existance... the form
      which it finds itself in is simply due to the fashioning of
      external elements and conditioning - the worker fashions it into
      a unique piece but the substance remains ever the same...
      Core Self is the Substance of the Eternal ONE that One has no
      relationship with other but is Whole as IS.....

      B: I don't see a problem in "the changing I", uncontrarely, i see it
      is a good thing, what would we do if we won't ever change?

      G: hahahahaha as long as an "I" remains there will be change... with
      form all changes... but beyond the relative I cognition is THAT
      which is Beyond Birth and Death... there is only LIFE for death does
      not touch that ONE... death touches the finite illusion and the
      dream of the dreamer... but you are in Truth not this finite
      creation... Truth is Unchanging.. Reality which the transient
      rests within and is permeated by does not change... Only the outer
      layer changes like the panorama of a movie across and empty
      unchanging screen... the Light that makes the vision seen is the
      reflection of Source... the intellect which gives the ability to
      know and cognise is also the outcome or reflection of Source...

      B: I would like to change (in the better)!!

      G: the personality changes while the Source is unchanging and is Pure
      as IS.... it is the mind that changes and with the mind the
      actions...
      When the Purity Is Known then actions will come into alignment with
      THAT Knowing...

      B: I don't think that others can give you any guidance... i believe
      > that the only guidance that may be true is the one from our heart.

      G: yes others may give Guidance but you must walk the way yourself...
      others that have already walked the path inwards Know the way and
      the detours that the ego self would take and get lost within...
      One that has mastered the Maze knows its turns and twists and
      route ... others attempting to find it on their own have an
      infinitely more difficult time of it...

      B: To feel it's right! What is the "Source"? My ego is manageable...
      it can change...

      G: hahahahaha and so the ego thinks.... Has ego brought you Peace?
      has Ego brought you lasting Joy and Knowing the Eternal from the
      transient? Can Ego dispel the illusion of death? the ego -
      which clings to the form and transient is death...

      B: > depends on my inner state. What i don't understand is why
      people want to get rid of the past, when the past is the only thing
      that helps them understand?!

      G: as long as you are caught up in past things then you are not NOW..
      if it can be viewed with dispassion then one can see through the
      fallacy of pasts mis-adventures... you either live NOW or not
      at all... can you bring back a past happening? No..
      you cannot cling to a past event of glory nor can you dispel
      a past event of pain by trying to re-create it and resolve it...
      it may simply be seen as coming from ignorance and when the
      truth of it all is cognised it no longer has a hold upon the
      Now...


      B: So here's how i see the things: there is the past – the history,
      to be analysed – and the the heart –which represents the present in
      this case. In order to do a change to myself i use those tools. In
      order to make a decision, i use those tools..

      G: if you can do with without reaction... for most are not seeing
      clearly but instead reacting to situations based upon past...
      a reaction is not making a rational decision but simply having
      an immediate response to a situation which is most often blown
      out of proportion to the unfolding event at hand... IF on
      the other hand one is in the moment without reacting to a past
      event then there is clarity to see the unfolding situation at
      present in clarity without the glasses of past conditioning...
      One can use witnessing or being a step back from what is
      unfolding to learn from and change the patterns that have been
      established from past events that are reations.. if you are
      far enough removed from the drama at hand you Can see the patterns
      enquire into them and then they will fall....


      B: everything that i do and will do i'll use those tools...
      > So, this is me: a mind, a soul and a consciousness which i think is
      the witness you are talking about)--there is nothing relative in
      that. What i know is that i started existing since my parents made
      > me and i will stop being when i will die (because i
      > think that without a conscious people don't exist.

      G: so start where you are and find out if that is true or not...
      What is consciousness? is it attached to a brain? is it
      attached to a body form? those that have experienced out of
      body experiences Know that it is not... in meditation one can
      know that it depends not on the body in the least... the body
      must have consciousness to operate but consciousness does not
      need a gross body to live... there is the gross form and a
      subtle form and the subtle form is ongoing...

      B: > When people die, their mind, soul and conscious dies
      > too)..

      G: on what evidence do you have that you can make that statement?
      you do not Know that to be truth but have accepted as a concept
      that it is so....

      B: So, this world exists as long as i exist. When i shall not be
      anymore, this world will stop existing for me... Perception is the
      one that makes us see the things around us. My perception will stop
      when i'll close my eyes forever..

      G: so why try to change anything or be better if you truly beleive
      that you are some finite creature? if you truly believe that
      death is the end then why to be better at all? it is because
      death is Not the end and that within people have a conscience
      which speaks to this fact... it might be slight but it is there
      for they have lived many times before and will live again the
      same unfolding dramas until the Truth sets them free from their
      own creations...

      B: > What is Jnana?

      G: it is the path of Direct Knowledge.. it is one in which the
      seeker is guided to find out the wisdom and truth within
      themselves.... it is not a set of facts which are *taught*
      and told to be accepted... it is a path wherein the Teacher
      /Guide instructs and gives the tools to go within and to
      discover the Source that IS....


      B: And what is shanti om?

      Om is the representation and eternal sound of the Formless
      Source...
      Shanti means Peace.... Maha-Shanti means Great Peace...

      shanti shanti Maha Shanti OM ...g...


      > Thank you,
      > mirela

      you are welcome

      .g.
    • Jeff Belyea <jeff@mindgoal.com>
      Thank you, Mirela, for drawing out these wonderful teachings from one who is so willing to share her enlightened wisdom. What a joy to read your exchange.
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 29, 2002
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        Thank you,
        Mirela,
        for drawing
        out these
        wonderful
        teachings
        from one
        who is
        so willing
        to share
        her enlightened
        wisdom.
        What a joy
        to read
        your exchange.
        Beautiful.
        Clarity.
        Bliss.

        Namaskar,
        Ganga.

        Jeff
      • Jason <jfishman2@msn.com>
        G, How truly insightful the words you write. Words to the I unexperienced are only mere words and can be found in many texts. Your energies toward others
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 29, 2002
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          G,

          How truly insightful the words you write. Words to the "I"
          unexperienced are only mere words and can be found in many texts.
          Your energies toward others eternal peace is always a wonderful read.

          Mirela,

          What magnificent questions! The peace you write of is sought by
          many, it is not the peace eternal. Through this site and many others
          that have touched the "beyond" (for lack of a better description)
          there are tools that may help you see the meaning of the words that
          G has written. Many forms of meditation practices are available, as
          well as, libraries full of text that are at the disposal for others
          looking "beyond" the "i" (morality, society, change, form and
          knowledge are just a few of the basis of "i"). Only within ones self
          will one find the truth, for it is within, that all begins and ends.

          Peace on your journey



          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "G
          <crystalkundalini@h...>" <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, mirela basa
          > <basamirela@y...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Hello G,
          > Hello and Namaste-
          > >
          > > I think people can share the answers that they have
          > > found, but it will be just that: sharing and nothing
          > > more. As there aren't two persons on the Earth that
          > > are the same, one's answers couldn't fit to the
          > > other's life.
          >
          > G: i am not addressing relative answers... nor relative knowledge
          > which is transient.. i am addressing the Unchanging Eternal Truth
          > which Changes Not... there is a vast differance between the
          two...
          >
          > i agree until the Eternal Truth is known one lives in a
          universe
          > of thier own colorations and each is in a world of thier own
          > making... no two live life the same Except those that are within
          the
          > world but no longer of it.... until then what you say is true
          > enough but i say in all honesty that there is a way out of the
          world
          > of conditionings .....
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > B: The first step to the wisdom is self knowing. So, maybe the
          other
          > can help only here: to know yourself better.
          >
          > G: i agree... this is why i work with people one to one so that
          > they can find out HOW to come to Know the Essense of Self versus
          the
          > relational ego identity which is viewed as the self in its
          entirety..
          > This can only happen when you are no longer chasing the externals
          to
          > try to find out who you are but instead go within and find out
          what
          > you are NOT until only that which is unmoving Remains...
          >
          >
          > B: I don't know what the Truth is, or where is, but i do
          > > know that once you've found yourself being in the true way you
          are,
          > and doing everything as your true being says, that is truth for
          me.
          >
          > G: how can you make that statement after saying that you don't
          know
          > what the Truth is? that is a rationalization of simply following
          the
          > ego desires and accepting that is what propels who you are... but
          if
          > you are content within this then fine go for it... but you will
          find
          > that it brings you no lasting happiness or peace ...
          >
          > B: That makes me fear less, and gives me courage to move on. The
          more
          > is true, the less is fear...
          >
          > G: then rather than chase fantasy's Stop and start to go within
          > question what you are ... Live your highest Truth and Live from
          > Gratitude and Love... Those are high ideals and will give you a
          > focus to start... There is Nothing to Fear except living in
          > continued ignorance which is what causes and continues the path of
          > pain or chasing false desires taking them to be paths to
          > fulfillment... Seek to experience Truth above all... Start with
          > Gratitude and then move into Love...
          >
          > B: > If the answers are not in the mind and not in the feelings,
          than
          > where are they?
          >
          > G: they are Not in the relative world or it's outcomes... it is
          > beyond within the Source... when you have surrendered your all to
          > Source then Grace will come.. Grace pulls one into Source..
          where
          > the illusion of the world is dispelled and the Truth is KNOWN at
          core
          > level... no longer a conjecture but as a FACT... in THAT moment
          > the search ends and Life is Lived.. you must go there through
          the
          > Heart.. i speak not to the heart of feelings and emotions but the
          > Heart of Truth which is within where no within or without
          remains...
          > It may indeed be entered into... you are a Temple of the Living
          God
          > and within is where Truth is found...
          >
          >
          > B: Everything is relative on this Universe!!
          >
          > G: this is why Christ said be in the world but Not of it... i am
          > not speaking to the relative Universe.. yet if you KNOW from
          > which it springs you will KNOW the relative Universe as it
          IS...
          > if you KNOW yourself then you will Know from where it
          springs...
          >
          > B: And everything is changing!!
          >
          > G: within the relative yes... that is so... within the Infinite
          > Source it is eternally the Unchanging Truth... Once that is
          > Known then you have a Stable Foundation.. you know while the
          > Universe is ever in flux it remains within and permeated by
          the
          > Unchanging Constant and minus the personal identity you are
          THAT.
          >
          > B: > Everything is born and after a while is dying...
          >
          > G: only form which is from the earthly elements falls away...
          > the form is only a vehicle of experience within this plane of
          > existance but you are beyond and more than this plane of
          > existance....
          >
          > B: > creatures, plants, stars etc.. There is a path that we
          > > are following... everyone has a path of it's own... i
          > > have my path and i shall follow it. But it's up to me
          > > to let the things flow (in the right way) or to interveen and
          make
          > my own stream...
          >
          > G: yes everyone has Free Will... and may stay following the
          > transient and caught within the web of their own spinning...
          > chasing desire after empty desire.. coming round after round
          > into birth and death within this physical plane of form or may
          > move forward to more subtle planes and higher awareness...
          > No one says that you have to be liberated... you have a right
          > to your life whatever it is as long as you do not cause the
          > suffering to others and in that you will pay the karmic debts
          > that you create...
          >
          > B: > What is "BEYOND"?
          >
          > G: hahahahaha BEYOND is what the rational mind cannot cognise nor
          > see... it is THAT which is beyond the 5 senses not seen with
          > physical eyes or ears...
          >
          > B: Where is that?
          >
          > G: it is everywhere present but not known nor seen unless Divine
          > Eyes and Wisdom are opened...
          >
          > B: What does it mean? Is it easy to get there (beyond)?
          >
          > G: for some it is easier than others... but it comes only when
          one
          > truly within their heart of hearts desires to KNOW and Cognise
          > The Truth or God.. it takes being able to lay yourself on the
          > sacrificial altar of truth until only the Source remains...
          > The ornament of personal self is melted and refined until the
          > Substance of Gold is known from which it was created from...
          > The vision of the Ornament receeds and the Substance which is
          > ever pure is KNOWN to be the Truth of its existance... the form
          > which it finds itself in is simply due to the fashioning of
          > external elements and conditioning - the worker fashions it
          into
          > a unique piece but the substance remains ever the same...
          > Core Self is the Substance of the Eternal ONE that One has no
          > relationship with other but is Whole as IS.....
          >
          > B: I don't see a problem in "the changing I", uncontrarely, i see
          it
          > is a good thing, what would we do if we won't ever change?
          >
          > G: hahahahaha as long as an "I" remains there will be change...
          with
          > form all changes... but beyond the relative I cognition is THAT
          > which is Beyond Birth and Death... there is only LIFE for death
          does
          > not touch that ONE... death touches the finite illusion and the
          > dream of the dreamer... but you are in Truth not this finite
          > creation... Truth is Unchanging.. Reality which the transient
          > rests within and is permeated by does not change... Only the outer
          > layer changes like the panorama of a movie across and empty
          > unchanging screen... the Light that makes the vision seen is the
          > reflection of Source... the intellect which gives the ability to
          > know and cognise is also the outcome or reflection of Source...
          >
          > B: I would like to change (in the better)!!
          >
          > G: the personality changes while the Source is unchanging and is
          Pure
          > as IS.... it is the mind that changes and with the mind the
          > actions...
          > When the Purity Is Known then actions will come into alignment
          with
          > THAT Knowing...
          >
          > B: I don't think that others can give you any guidance... i
          believe
          > > that the only guidance that may be true is the one from our
          heart.
          >
          > G: yes others may give Guidance but you must walk the way
          yourself...
          > others that have already walked the path inwards Know the way
          and
          > the detours that the ego self would take and get lost within...
          > One that has mastered the Maze knows its turns and twists and
          > route ... others attempting to find it on their own have an
          > infinitely more difficult time of it...
          >
          > B: To feel it's right! What is the "Source"? My ego is
          manageable...
          > it can change...
          >
          > G: hahahahaha and so the ego thinks.... Has ego brought you
          Peace?
          > has Ego brought you lasting Joy and Knowing the Eternal from
          the
          > transient? Can Ego dispel the illusion of death? the ego -
          > which clings to the form and transient is death...
          >
          > B: > depends on my inner state. What i don't understand is why
          > people want to get rid of the past, when the past is the only
          thing
          > that helps them understand?!
          >
          > G: as long as you are caught up in past things then you are not
          NOW..
          > if it can be viewed with dispassion then one can see through
          the
          > fallacy of pasts mis-adventures... you either live NOW or not
          > at all... can you bring back a past happening? No..
          > you cannot cling to a past event of glory nor can you dispel
          > a past event of pain by trying to re-create it and resolve
          it...
          > it may simply be seen as coming from ignorance and when the
          > truth of it all is cognised it no longer has a hold upon the
          > Now...
          >
          >
          > B: So here's how i see the things: there is the past – the
          history,
          > to be analysed – and the the heart –which represents the present
          in
          > this case. In order to do a change to myself i use those tools. In
          > order to make a decision, i use those tools..
          >
          > G: if you can do with without reaction... for most are not seeing
          > clearly but instead reacting to situations based upon past...
          > a reaction is not making a rational decision but simply having
          > an immediate response to a situation which is most often blown
          > out of proportion to the unfolding event at hand... IF on
          > the other hand one is in the moment without reacting to a past
          > event then there is clarity to see the unfolding situation at
          > present in clarity without the glasses of past conditioning...
          > One can use witnessing or being a step back from what is
          > unfolding to learn from and change the patterns that have been
          > established from past events that are reations.. if you are
          > far enough removed from the drama at hand you Can see the
          patterns
          > enquire into them and then they will fall....
          >
          >
          > B: everything that i do and will do i'll use those tools...
          > > So, this is me: a mind, a soul and a consciousness which i think
          is
          > the witness you are talking about)--there is nothing relative in
          > that. What i know is that i started existing since my parents made
          > > me and i will stop being when i will die (because i
          > > think that without a conscious people don't exist.
          >
          > G: so start where you are and find out if that is true or not...
          > What is consciousness? is it attached to a brain? is it
          > attached to a body form? those that have experienced out of
          > body experiences Know that it is not... in meditation one can
          > know that it depends not on the body in the least... the body
          > must have consciousness to operate but consciousness does not
          > need a gross body to live... there is the gross form and a
          > subtle form and the subtle form is ongoing...
          >
          > B: > When people die, their mind, soul and conscious dies
          > > too)..
          >
          > G: on what evidence do you have that you can make that
          statement?
          > you do not Know that to be truth but have accepted as a
          concept
          > that it is so....
          >
          > B: So, this world exists as long as i exist. When i shall not be
          > anymore, this world will stop existing for me... Perception is the
          > one that makes us see the things around us. My perception will
          stop
          > when i'll close my eyes forever..
          >
          > G: so why try to change anything or be better if you truly
          beleive
          > that you are some finite creature? if you truly believe that
          > death is the end then why to be better at all? it is because
          > death is Not the end and that within people have a conscience
          > which speaks to this fact... it might be slight but it is
          there
          > for they have lived many times before and will live again the
          > same unfolding dramas until the Truth sets them free from their
          > own creations...
          >
          > B: > What is Jnana?
          >
          > G: it is the path of Direct Knowledge.. it is one in which the
          > seeker is guided to find out the wisdom and truth within
          > themselves.... it is not a set of facts which are *taught*
          > and told to be accepted... it is a path wherein the Teacher
          > /Guide instructs and gives the tools to go within and to
          > discover the Source that IS....
          >
          >
          > B: And what is shanti om?
          >
          > Om is the representation and eternal sound of the Formless
          > Source...
          > Shanti means Peace.... Maha-Shanti means Great Peace...
          >
          > shanti shanti Maha Shanti OM ...g...
          >
          >
          > > Thank you,
          > > mirela
          >
          > you are welcome
          >
          > .g.
        • mirela basa
          Dear Jeff, i m glad you like it, but i m just trying to make the things more clear in my head. Thank you, Mirela Jeff Belyea
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 29, 2002
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            Dear Jeff,
            i'm glad you like it, but i'm just trying to make the things more clear in my head.
            Thank you,
            Mirela
            "Jeff Belyea <jeff@...>" <jeff@...> wrote:
            Thank you,
            Mirela,
            for drawing
            out these
            wonderful
            teachings
            from one
            who is
            so willing
            to share
            her enlightened
            wisdom.
            What a joy
            to read
            your exchange.
            Beautiful.
            Clarity.
            Bliss.

            Namaskar,
            Ganga.

            Jeff



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            Athanor Publishing HouseBd. 1 Decembrie 1918Bl. 105, Ap. 10Petrosani, 2675Hunedoara, Romania0040-721-374 002


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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • G <crystalkundalini@hotmail.com>
            ... read. G: it is always difficult to penetrate that first layer into a heartfelt cognition rather than an intellectual discussion and banter of mind... but
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 29, 2002
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              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jason
              <jfishman2@m...>" <jfishman2@m...> wrote:
              > G,
              >
              > How truly insightful the words you write. Words to the "I"
              > unexperienced are only mere words and can be found in many texts.
              > Your energies toward others eternal peace is always a wonderful
              read.

              G: it is always difficult to penetrate that first layer into a
              heartfelt cognition rather than an intellectual discussion
              and banter of mind... but all that may be done is to keep
              giving what may be given and letting spirit do the rest...
              it is like planting seeds some reach stony ground but a few
              just might make it to where they take root and grow...

              shanti shanti maha-shanti om ...g...
            • Athanor
              Thank you Jeff, I do choose joy.. i love joy! there is nothing more beautifull in my life than the freedom.. (I used to travel a lot and i have spent a few
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 1, 2003
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                Thank you Jeff,
                I do choose joy.. i love joy! there is nothing more beautifull in my life than the freedom.. (I used to travel a lot and i have spent a few months on the mountains; i have left my parents home at 18) and this freedom brings me a lot of joy in every day of my life... Joy is the one who makes me dance, is the one who makes me open my eyes more and more to reality, joy makes me want to do everything right... as this should be the real state of a human being - JOY.

                I was saying about pain that it is a great teacher (and it always reminds me to do my "homeworks"), because i think there is a special state when one is in pains... when there is pain, there is also more atention - to both: physical body and the mind... When i'm in pains i know that i see this like a picture, and in this picture i can almost see myself laid in bed with a distorsioned face. When i have a pain, almost my entire atention goes there to "see" it..

                ps i'm very behind with the talks here.. i didn't feel very well those days

                mirela
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Jeff Belyea <jeff@...>
                To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 2:07 PM
                Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] The OK Corral


                Mirela -

                Asking questions is
                part of the purpose
                of this group as I
                read it. We all
                benefit from the
                exploration of
                consciousness, so
                please keep up the
                questions. And...

                Choose joy.

                In joy and understanding
                there is clarity and
                decisive, unencumbered
                action. Joy is not
                inactive and unaware
                or unconcerned. Joy is
                much better than that.
                Joy brings unshakable
                self-confidence, trust
                in your own judgment
                and the beautiful,
                graceful spontaneity
                of a child. Joy is
                not selfish, it is
                caring and kind and
                wise. Choose joy.

                The peaceful quiet
                of meditation opens
                the door to the real
                experience of joy -
                a fullness of joy
                that sees the entire
                world as if for the
                first time in every
                new moment, sees the
                love and goodness in
                everyone, delights in
                a sunrise, a smile,
                a hug. Bring joy
                to the world, Mirela.
                There's already
                enough pain.

                I wish you peace
                and love and joy
                and understanding
                in the new year,
                and in every new
                moment.

                Love,

                Jeff



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              • Jeff Belyea <jeff@mindgoal.com>
                Mirela - Pain distracts awareness, and clouds judgments. Joy focuses awareness and brings clarity. Joy is the better teacher. Love, Jeff
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 2, 2003
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                  Mirela -

                  Pain distracts awareness,
                  and clouds judgments.
                  Joy focuses awareness
                  and brings clarity.

                  Joy is the better teacher.

                  Love,

                  Jeff
                • Athanor
                  300 years old mirela ... From: Jeff Belyea To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:31 PM
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 2, 2003
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                    300 years old
                    mirela
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Jeff Belyea <jeff@...>
                    To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:31 PM
                    Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: THE SAGE'S AGE


                    Mirela -

                    How old would you
                    be if you didn't
                    know how old you
                    were?

                    Love,

                    Jeff



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                  • Athanor
                    i was asking you about your age because of the message below... i was just trying to be funny.. mirela ... From: Athanor To:
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 2, 2003
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                      i was asking you about your age because of the message below... i was just trying to be funny..
                      mirela
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Athanor
                      To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 7:33 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: THE SAGE'S VIEW


                      Jeff,
                      how old are you?
                      mirela
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Jeff Belyea <jeff@...>
                      To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:39 AM
                      Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: THE SAGE'S VIEW


                      Sweet friend, Judi -

                      Can you possibly keep your
                      slasher tongue in its holster
                      long enough to read more
                      than one sentence? Your
                      self-contradiction is
                      showing all over the place.
                      You say it's not joy, but you call
                      it pure joy. It's not experience
                      but you call it a new
                      perceptual condition.
                      New is necessarily experiential,
                      perception is experiential -
                      understanding is experiential.
                      Semantic hair-splitting
                      just to be an antagonist
                      is your tiresome game.

                      And speaking of place, this
                      really isn't the place for this,
                      but I'm tired of stepping
                      in your smelly bullshit
                      everywhere I go...and I want
                      a shoot out, Rocky.

                      Go ahead and run back to the ranch.
                      I'll be on your trail. I don't
                      like your style, but I grew
                      up with people who walked it
                      and talked it, and I'm willing
                      and able to stand my ground
                      against your bluster, buster.

                      I guess you don't have enough
                      to rant about at the ranch.
                      You got an extra bunk?.
                      You didn't run me off, you
                      invited me back "anytime".
                      Still a standing invitation?
                      You'll have your boys there.

                      I left because your juvenile boys
                      grew ridiculously boring.
                      They didn't scare me off, my
                      side was hurting from laughing
                      at their naivety, pompous parroting,
                      and pitiful pandering to you.
                      You talk about others wanting fawning
                      disciples. What do you have at
                      the ranch? They got nothing.
                      Less than Snarlo's Guru Raters,
                      even.

                      And get real, you jumped around
                      like a tenderfoot with someone
                      shooting at her feet when my
                      inquiries got too hot.

                      You, I challenge to duel...
                      Hot-Air filled Cream puffs
                      at 50 paces. That's about
                      all you got other than
                      a bundt pan.

                      Still reading?...

                      On July 21, 1975 at about
                      9:30am my life changed, a
                      door opened. It was not a flash,
                      not a la la la moment, it was a
                      permanent shift of identity,
                      a new awareness of a reality
                      that I had been separated
                      from - a separate reality -
                      until known, a new overriding
                      current running through my every
                      conscious moment from that
                      moment on. And it was and is
                      blissful, peaceful beyond
                      understanding, and full of joy.
                      Still is.Doesn't mean I don't have
                      a bold and bad-ass ego, or
                      that I run from a scrap.

                      Not all sages are milquetoasts,
                      the best of them have been
                      known to fashion a whip and
                      crack a few heads.

                      Whatever I choose to call
                      my awakening experience
                      cannot be negated by your
                      constant carping. Its wasted.
                      The person who entered
                      the meditation center,
                      after 24 years of seeking,
                      never left. He ceased to exit.
                      (Sound familiar?)

                      So you don't subscribe to
                      the Boddisattva vow? I do.
                      I took it. I honor it.

                      Your shots at my ego
                      are in vain. I grin
                      and bear it, because I don't
                      miss the wry smile behind
                      all your seeming ferocity.

                      But for the sake of
                      those who are here
                      for inquiry...

                      Can't you ever just shut
                      the fuck up, and let someone
                      speak without whacking them on
                      the head with your tight-ass,
                      self-righteous, know-it-all
                      table of the Judi commandments?

                      Your need to straighten
                      out all the error you
                      see in everyone else
                      might have something to
                      do with the ego you
                      consistently see
                      all around you.

                      Rude enough to win
                      you over?

                      Your blissed out bawdy friend,

                      Jeff

                      PS: My apologies to the gentle folks here
                      for this evening's R-Rated entertainment.
                      Somewhere there's a lesson here.I'm going
                      to go see what's cookin' at the ranch.



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                    • Jeff Belyea <jeff@mindgoal.com>
                      Mirela - You have great wisdom for your age. Love, Jeff
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jan 2, 2003
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                        Mirela -

                        You have great wisdom
                        for your age.

                        Love,

                        Jeff
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