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For those of you so concerned with reaching enlightenment I have a suggestion

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  • Peter
    Meditate.....
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 20, 2006
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      Meditate.....
    • Bruce Morgen
      ... As my old Belorussian/Jewish grandma might say, It couldn t hoit....
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 20, 2006
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        Peter wrote:

        >Meditate.....
        >
        >
        As my old Belorussian/Jewish
        grandma might say, "It
        couldn't hoit...."
      • prakki surya
        Shankara preached the knowledge of self. Self is pure awareness. Self is common item in all the living beings. This self is called as causal body. Thus in
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 21, 2006
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          Shankara preached the knowledge of self.  Self is pure awareness.  Self is common item in all the living beings.  This self is called as causal body.  Thus in this world-drama all roles are basically just actors or souls. In every role the actor is present.  Similarly in every living being the soul is present.  This relationship between souls is the relationship between co-actors that existed before drama and will exist after the drama also.  This co-actor relationship or the relationship between same souls is real compared to the relationships between external subtle bodies and gross bodies.  The subtle body is made of feelings, which are like actions and dialogues in the drama.  The gross bodies are like the external dress.  Both the subtle bodies and gross bodies are unreal compared to the casual bodies.  Again between the gross bodies and subtle bodies, the subtle bodies are more realistic because even after the drama one may carry on the feelings and dialogues to his home but not the dress.  Similarly the gross body is left over here and the subtle body goes out.  Some Scholars destroy this subtle body also and remain as souls.  Once you get rid of the illusion of gross and subtle bodies and remain only as a soul, justice can be established in this world.  The relationship between the dress-roles or gross bodies is in terms of family bonds, relation bonds, caste bonds, nationality bonds and religion bonds.  If one realizes all the living beings are the co-actors or souls only, all the above bonds vanish physically and mentally.  The physical bond disappears when the gross body is destroyed here.  But the mental bond continues with the soul and that is destroyed when the subtle body is destroyed.  Thus realization of these false bonds and realisation of the only true bond in this world, which is the bond between souls or co-actors is the self-knowledge established by Shankara.  When the family bonds disappear one will not torture or kill another person for wealth to be earned for his family members.  The bond with this physical body is the bond with the external dress in the drama.  When one realizes the blind attraction to his body and to his family members, corruption will disappear in this world.  Valmiki was robbing the wealth of passengers.  One-day sage Narada came and asked whether his family members will share his sin.  Valmiki went and asked his family members about this point.  They refused to share his sin.  
           
          Infact even if they agree to share, it cannot be shared according to the rules of Karma, because he is doing the sin based on his blind attraction towards them.  They never asked him to do sin and give comforts.  No family asks anybody like this.  Therefore, this spiritual knowledge can alone transform the people and the corruption can be permanently removed.  Fear of courts and police here can never control the sin because people find very easily the alternative ways.  Fear about the hell is also unable to control because the blind attraction is more powerful than the fear.  The only way to remove this blind attraction and eradicate the sin from this world is to divert that very blind attraction towards God.  When the attraction is fixed on the Lord and the reality of the family bonds is known, the sin is controlled.  Similarly, the attraction to the nation in terms to devotion to motherland is again a false bond.  This entire earth belongs to the Lord.  The sons are living in various rooms according to their convenience and the whole house belongs to the father.  If this truth is realized the wars between countries for the sake of national boundaries will disappear.  For the foolishness of the leader of the country several human lives are ending in the war.  The human life is very precious because the human life is meant for the spiritual realisation and this realisation must stop the suicides also. 
           
          Similarly, the limitations to religion are leading to genocides and if you realise the concept of one God and the concept of co-actors, this also looks false and foolish.  The realisation of the producer and the director of the drama who is the Lord and is the employer of all the actors is called as the knowledge of the Lord (Brahma Jnana).  When the self-realisation (Atma-Jnana) is achieved the excess blind attractions are at least controlled, leading to the establishment of the justice in this world.  This is called as Pravrutti and God is pleased with you for this.  In this you are an outsider because you have not entered Nivrutti, which is his inner circle. But still the Lord is pleased with you though you are in Pravrutti.  Nivrutti means the introduction of producer and director of drama who also has entered into drama in a role.  When you shift the attraction from the family etc towards the Lord, you are entering into inner circle or Nivrutti. The reduction of excess strength of the bond is Pravrutti, which is achieved by self-realisation (Atma Jnana).  When the bond disappears completely, it is Brahma Jnana or Realisation of Lord or Nivrutti. Sankara propagated self- realisation and thus established justice in the world.
           
          Self-realisation is very easy because the Self is in every human being. There is no difficulty in search of Self, whereas there is lot of difficulty in search of Lord in human form (Brahma Jnana). There is no risk in the search of self because you are sure to reach the Self within your body; it is like searching money present in your house. But in the search of Lord in human form in this world, you may be misled and you are not sure that you can catch the human incarnation.  Jealousy and egoism will not come in the way of reaching the self but these two are obstructions in the way of identifying the human incarnation. Ramanuja established the Brahma Jnana by introducing Lord Vishnu and Lord Krishna and Rama as His human incarnations.  Ramanuja established devotion that is necessary for Nivrutti, whereas Sankara established justice in Pravrutti.  After reaching the goal in Nivrutti (the path of liberation) the duty of devotee is to do service to the Lord without aspiring anything in return. Madhva established such service.
           
          at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
          surya
          www.universal-spirituality.org


          Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your phone.
        • hello_jeeva
          Datta: There is no difficulty in search of Self, whereas there is lot of difficulty in search of Lord in human form (Brahma Jnana). Jeeva : In my view Brahma
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 22, 2006
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            Datta: There is no difficulty in search of Self, whereas there is
            lot of difficulty in search of Lord in human form (Brahma
            Jnana).

            Jeeva : In my view Brahma Jnana is understanding the totality of
            existence not understanding any Human form.


            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
            <dattapr2000@...> wrote:
            >
            > Shankara preached the knowledge of self. Self is pure awareness.
            Self is common item in all the living beings. This self is called
            as causal body. Thus in this world-drama all roles are basically
            just actors or souls. In every role the actor is present. Similarly
            in every living being the soul is present. This relationship
            between souls is the relationship between co-actors that existed
            before drama and will exist after the drama also. This co-actor
            relationship or the relationship between same souls is real compared
            to the relationships between external subtle bodies and gross
            bodies. The subtle body is made of feelings, which are like actions
            and dialogues in the drama. The gross bodies are like the external
            dress. Both the subtle bodies and gross bodies are unreal compared
            to the casual bodies. Again between the gross bodies and subtle
            bodies, the subtle bodies are more realistic because even after the
            drama one may carry on the feelings and dialogues to his
            > home but not the dress. Similarly the gross body is left over
            here and the subtle body goes out. Some Scholars destroy this
            subtle body also and remain as souls. Once you get rid of the
            illusion of gross and subtle bodies and remain only as a soul,
            justice can be established in this world. The relationship between
            the dress-roles or gross bodies is in terms of family bonds,
            relation bonds, caste bonds, nationality bonds and religion bonds.
            If one realizes all the living beings are the co-actors or souls
            only, all the above bonds vanish physically and mentally. The
            physical bond disappears when the gross body is destroyed here. But
            the mental bond continues with the soul and that is destroyed when
            the subtle body is destroyed. Thus realization of these false bonds
            and realisation of the only true bond in this world, which is the
            bond between souls or co-actors is the self-knowledge established by
            Shankara. When the family bonds disappear one will not torture or
            > kill another person for wealth to be earned for his family
            members. The bond with this physical body is the bond with the
            external dress in the drama. When one realizes the blind attraction
            to his body and to his family members, corruption will disappear in
            this world. Valmiki was robbing the wealth of passengers. One-day
            sage Narada came and asked whether his family members will share his
            sin. Valmiki went and asked his family members about this point.
            They refused to share his sin.
            >
            > Infact even if they agree to share, it cannot be shared
            according to the rules of Karma, because he is doing the sin based
            on his blind attraction towards them. They never asked him to do
            sin and give comforts. No family asks anybody like this.
            Therefore, this spiritual knowledge can alone transform the people
            and the corruption can be permanently removed. Fear of courts and
            police here can never control the sin because people find very
            easily the alternative ways. Fear about the hell is also unable to
            control because the blind attraction is more powerful than the
            fear. The only way to remove this blind attraction and eradicate
            the sin from this world is to divert that very blind attraction
            towards God. When the attraction is fixed on the Lord and the
            reality of the family bonds is known, the sin is controlled.
            Similarly, the attraction to the nation in terms to devotion to
            motherland is again a false bond. This entire earth belongs to the
            Lord. The sons are
            > living in various rooms according to their convenience and the
            whole house belongs to the father. If this truth is realized the
            wars between countries for the sake of national boundaries will
            disappear. For the foolishness of the leader of the country several
            human lives are ending in the war. The human life is very precious
            because the human life is meant for the spiritual realisation and
            this realisation must stop the suicides also.
            >
            > Similarly, the limitations to religion are leading to genocides
            and if you realise the concept of one God and the concept of co-
            actors, this also looks false and foolish. The realisation of the
            producer and the director of the drama who is the Lord and is the
            employer of all the actors is called as the knowledge of the Lord
            (Brahma Jnana). When the self-realisation (Atma-Jnana) is achieved
            the excess blind attractions are at least controlled, leading to the
            establishment of the justice in this world. This is called as
            Pravrutti and God is pleased with you for this. In this you are an
            outsider because you have not entered Nivrutti, which is his inner
            circle. But still the Lord is pleased with you though you are in
            Pravrutti. Nivrutti means the introduction of producer and director
            of drama who also has entered into drama in a role. When you shift
            the attraction from the family etc towards the Lord, you are
            entering into inner circle or Nivrutti. The reduction of
            > excess strength of the bond is Pravrutti, which is achieved by
            self-realisation (Atma Jnana). When the bond disappears completely,
            it is Brahma Jnana or Realisation of Lord or Nivrutti. Sankara
            propagated self- realisation and thus established justice in the
            world.
            >
            > Self-realisation is very easy because the Self is in every human
            being. There is no difficulty in search of Self, whereas there is
            lot of difficulty in search of Lord in human form (Brahma Jnana).
            There is no risk in the search of self because you are sure to reach
            the Self within your body; it is like searching money present in
            your house. But in the search of Lord in human form in this world,
            you may be misled and you are not sure that you can catch the human
            incarnation. Jealousy and egoism will not come in the way of
            reaching the self but these two are obstructions in the way of
            identifying the human incarnation. Ramanuja established the Brahma
            Jnana by introducing Lord Vishnu and Lord Krishna and Rama as His
            human incarnations. Ramanuja established devotion that is necessary
            for Nivrutti, whereas Sankara established justice in Pravrutti.
            After reaching the goal in Nivrutti (the path of liberation) the
            duty of devotee is to do service to the Lord without aspiring
            > anything in return. Madhva established such service.
            >
            > at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
            > surya
            > www.universal-spirituality.org
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your phone.
            >
          • prakki surya
            if Krishna is Lord, then the knowledge about Him is Brahma Jnana or Brahma Vidya or divine knowledge, which actually means identifying, attaining and pleasing
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 22, 2006
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              if Krishna is Lord, then the knowledge about Him is Brahma Jnana or Brahma Vidya or divine knowledge, which actually means identifying, attaining and pleasing of Him (such human incarnation of Lord only but not any human being) only. You feel like that because you are not treating Him as lord seeing His external appearnce which is a like normal human being. But when the same Krishna showed the Vishwaroopam, in which the whole universe along with fourteen worlds existed. Does it not mean He is the same creator? Normal wire and electrified wire look similar. The experience of shock differentiates the electrified wire from the normal. Likewise, the lord in human form will be differentiated by His special divine knowledge preached by Him (Satyam jnanam anantam brahma...)
               
              Krishna in Bhagavat Gita told 'Vaasudeva Sarvam idam ...', which means son of Vasudeva (He is referring to Himself) is only the total Lord. All the human beings are not the sons of Vasudeva. Also anybody's son is not Vaasudeva. Hence Lord Krishna clearly stated that He is only the Lord and there is nobody above Him whose permission is required if He wants to grant a boon or punish a sinner. Lord Krishna in general is referring to human incarnation who is only God in total.
               
              at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
              surya
              www.universal-spirituality.org

              hello_jeeva <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
              Datta: There is no difficulty in search of Self, whereas there is  
                     lot of difficulty in search of Lord in human form (Brahma
                     Jnana).

              Jeeva : In my view Brahma Jnana is understanding the totality of
                      existence not understanding any Human form.


              Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

            • hello_jeeva
              Datta: But when the same Krishna showed the Vishwaroopam, in which the whole universe along with fourteen worlds existed. Jeeva : Can t you just look at the
              Message 6 of 6 , Apr 22, 2006
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                Datta: But when the same Krishna showed the Vishwaroopam, in which
                the whole universe along with fourteen worlds existed.

                Jeeva : Can't you just look at the vast existence and various
                life forms ,all interconnected(Vishwarupam)
                and filled with awe.

                Why one need Krishna or Datta?




                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                <dattapr2000@...> wrote:
                >
                > if Krishna is Lord, then the knowledge about Him is Brahma Jnana
                or Brahma Vidya or divine knowledge, which actually means
                identifying, attaining and pleasing of Him (such human incarnation
                of Lord only but not any human being) only. You feel like that
                because you are not treating Him as lord seeing His external
                appearnce which is a like normal human being. But when the same
                Krishna showed the Vishwaroopam, in which the whole universe along
                with fourteen worlds existed. Does it not mean He is the same
                creator? Normal wire and electrified wire look similar. The
                experience of shock differentiates the electrified wire from the
                normal. Likewise, the lord in human form will be differentiated by
                His special divine knowledge preached by Him (Satyam jnanam anantam
                brahma...)
                >
                > Krishna in Bhagavat Gita told 'Vaasudeva Sarvam idam ...', which
                means son of Vasudeva (He is referring to Himself) is only the total
                Lord. All the human beings are not the sons of Vasudeva. Also
                anybody's son is not Vaasudeva. Hence Lord Krishna clearly stated
                that He is only the Lord and there is nobody above Him whose
                permission is required if He wants to grant a boon or punish a
                sinner. Lord Krishna in general is referring to human incarnation
                who is only God in total.
                >
                > at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
                > surya
                > www.universal-spirituality.org
                >
                > hello_jeeva <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                > Datta: There is no difficulty in search of Self, whereas there
                is
                > lot of difficulty in search of Lord in human form (Brahma
                > Jnana).
                >
                > Jeeva : In my view Brahma Jnana is understanding the totality of
                > existence not understanding any Human form.
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for
                just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
                >
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