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  • mirela basa
    Hello G, I think people can share the answers that they have found, but it will be just that: sharing and nothing more. As there aren t two persons on the
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 27, 2002
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      Hello G,

      I think people can share the answers that they have
      found, but it will be just that: sharing and nothing
      more. As there aren't two persons on the Earth that
      are the same, one's answers couldn't fit to the
      other's life. The first step to the wisdom is self
      knowing. So, maybe the other can help only here: to
      know yourself better.
      I don't know what the Truth is, or where is, but i do
      know that once you've found yourself being in the true
      way you are, and doing everything as your true being
      says, that is truth for me. That makes me fear less,
      and gives me courage to move on. The more is true, the
      less is fear...
      If the answers are not in the mind and not in the
      feelings, than where are they? Everything is relative
      on this Universe!! And everything is changing!!
      Everything is born and after a while is dying...
      creatures, plants, stars etc.. There is a path that we
      are following... everyone has a path of it's own... i
      have my path and i shall follow it. But it's up to me
      to let the things flow (in the right way) or to
      interveen and make my own stream...
      What is �BEYOND�? Where is that? What does it mean? Is
      it easy to get there (beyond)? I don't see a problem
      in �the changing I�, uncontrarely, i see it is a good
      thing, what would we do if we won't ever change? I
      would like to change (in the better)!! I don't think
      that others can give you any guidance... i believe
      that the only guidance that may be true is the one
      from our heart. To feel it's right! What is the
      �Source�? My ego is manageable... it can change...
      depends on my inner state.
      What i don't understand is why people want to get rid
      of the past, when the past is the only thing that
      helps them understand?! So here's how i see the
      things: there is the past � the history, to be
      analysed � and the the heart �which represents the
      present in this case. In order to do a change to
      myself i use those tools. In order to make a decision,
      i use those tools.. in everything that i do and will
      do i'll use those tools...
      So, this is me: a mind, a soul and a consciousness
      (which i think is the witness you are talking
      about)--there is nothing relative in that. What i
      know is that i started existing since my parents made
      me and i will stop being when i will die (because i
      think that without a conscious people don't exist.
      When people die, their mind, soul and conscious dies
      too).. So, this world exists as long as i exist. When
      i shall not be anymore, this world will stop existing
      for me... Perception is the one that makes us see the
      things around us. My perception will stop when i'll
      close my eyes forever..
      What is Jnana? And what is shanti om?
      Thank you,
      mirela


















      =====
      Athanor Publishing HouseBd. 1 Decembrie 1918Bl. 105, Ap. 10Petrosani, 2675Hunedoara, Romania0040-721-374 002

      __________________________________________________
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    • G <crystalkundalini@hotmail.com>
      ... Hello and Namaste- ... G: i am not addressing relative answers... nor relative knowledge which is transient.. i am addressing the Unchanging Eternal
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 28, 2002
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, mirela basa
        <basamirela@y...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hello G,
        Hello and Namaste-
        >
        > I think people can share the answers that they have
        > found, but it will be just that: sharing and nothing
        > more. As there aren't two persons on the Earth that
        > are the same, one's answers couldn't fit to the
        > other's life.

        G: i am not addressing relative answers... nor relative knowledge
        which is transient.. i am addressing the Unchanging Eternal Truth
        which Changes Not... there is a vast differance between the two...

        i agree until the Eternal Truth is known one lives in a universe
        of thier own colorations and each is in a world of thier own
        making... no two live life the same Except those that are within the
        world but no longer of it.... until then what you say is true
        enough but i say in all honesty that there is a way out of the world
        of conditionings .....




        B: The first step to the wisdom is self knowing. So, maybe the other
        can help only here: to know yourself better.

        G: i agree... this is why i work with people one to one so that
        they can find out HOW to come to Know the Essense of Self versus the
        relational ego identity which is viewed as the self in its entirety..
        This can only happen when you are no longer chasing the externals to
        try to find out who you are but instead go within and find out what
        you are NOT until only that which is unmoving Remains...


        B: I don't know what the Truth is, or where is, but i do
        > know that once you've found yourself being in the true way you are,
        and doing everything as your true being says, that is truth for me.

        G: how can you make that statement after saying that you don't know
        what the Truth is? that is a rationalization of simply following the
        ego desires and accepting that is what propels who you are... but if
        you are content within this then fine go for it... but you will find
        that it brings you no lasting happiness or peace ...

        B: That makes me fear less, and gives me courage to move on. The more
        is true, the less is fear...

        G: then rather than chase fantasy's Stop and start to go within
        question what you are ... Live your highest Truth and Live from
        Gratitude and Love... Those are high ideals and will give you a
        focus to start... There is Nothing to Fear except living in
        continued ignorance which is what causes and continues the path of
        pain or chasing false desires taking them to be paths to
        fulfillment... Seek to experience Truth above all... Start with
        Gratitude and then move into Love...

        B: > If the answers are not in the mind and not in the feelings, than
        where are they?

        G: they are Not in the relative world or it's outcomes... it is
        beyond within the Source... when you have surrendered your all to
        Source then Grace will come.. Grace pulls one into Source.. where
        the illusion of the world is dispelled and the Truth is KNOWN at core
        level... no longer a conjecture but as a FACT... in THAT moment
        the search ends and Life is Lived.. you must go there through the
        Heart.. i speak not to the heart of feelings and emotions but the
        Heart of Truth which is within where no within or without remains...
        It may indeed be entered into... you are a Temple of the Living God
        and within is where Truth is found...


        B: Everything is relative on this Universe!!

        G: this is why Christ said be in the world but Not of it... i am
        not speaking to the relative Universe.. yet if you KNOW from
        which it springs you will KNOW the relative Universe as it IS...
        if you KNOW yourself then you will Know from where it springs...

        B: And everything is changing!!

        G: within the relative yes... that is so... within the Infinite
        Source it is eternally the Unchanging Truth... Once that is
        Known then you have a Stable Foundation.. you know while the
        Universe is ever in flux it remains within and permeated by the
        Unchanging Constant and minus the personal identity you are THAT.

        B: > Everything is born and after a while is dying...

        G: only form which is from the earthly elements falls away...
        the form is only a vehicle of experience within this plane of
        existance but you are beyond and more than this plane of
        existance....

        B: > creatures, plants, stars etc.. There is a path that we
        > are following... everyone has a path of it's own... i
        > have my path and i shall follow it. But it's up to me
        > to let the things flow (in the right way) or to interveen and make
        my own stream...

        G: yes everyone has Free Will... and may stay following the
        transient and caught within the web of their own spinning...
        chasing desire after empty desire.. coming round after round
        into birth and death within this physical plane of form or may
        move forward to more subtle planes and higher awareness...
        No one says that you have to be liberated... you have a right
        to your life whatever it is as long as you do not cause the
        suffering to others and in that you will pay the karmic debts
        that you create...

        B: > What is "BEYOND"?

        G: hahahahaha BEYOND is what the rational mind cannot cognise nor
        see... it is THAT which is beyond the 5 senses not seen with
        physical eyes or ears...

        B: Where is that?

        G: it is everywhere present but not known nor seen unless Divine
        Eyes and Wisdom are opened...

        B: What does it mean? Is it easy to get there (beyond)?

        G: for some it is easier than others... but it comes only when one
        truly within their heart of hearts desires to KNOW and Cognise
        The Truth or God.. it takes being able to lay yourself on the
        sacrificial altar of truth until only the Source remains...
        The ornament of personal self is melted and refined until the
        Substance of Gold is known from which it was created from...
        The vision of the Ornament receeds and the Substance which is
        ever pure is KNOWN to be the Truth of its existance... the form
        which it finds itself in is simply due to the fashioning of
        external elements and conditioning - the worker fashions it into
        a unique piece but the substance remains ever the same...
        Core Self is the Substance of the Eternal ONE that One has no
        relationship with other but is Whole as IS.....

        B: I don't see a problem in "the changing I", uncontrarely, i see it
        is a good thing, what would we do if we won't ever change?

        G: hahahahaha as long as an "I" remains there will be change... with
        form all changes... but beyond the relative I cognition is THAT
        which is Beyond Birth and Death... there is only LIFE for death does
        not touch that ONE... death touches the finite illusion and the
        dream of the dreamer... but you are in Truth not this finite
        creation... Truth is Unchanging.. Reality which the transient
        rests within and is permeated by does not change... Only the outer
        layer changes like the panorama of a movie across and empty
        unchanging screen... the Light that makes the vision seen is the
        reflection of Source... the intellect which gives the ability to
        know and cognise is also the outcome or reflection of Source...

        B: I would like to change (in the better)!!

        G: the personality changes while the Source is unchanging and is Pure
        as IS.... it is the mind that changes and with the mind the
        actions...
        When the Purity Is Known then actions will come into alignment with
        THAT Knowing...

        B: I don't think that others can give you any guidance... i believe
        > that the only guidance that may be true is the one from our heart.

        G: yes others may give Guidance but you must walk the way yourself...
        others that have already walked the path inwards Know the way and
        the detours that the ego self would take and get lost within...
        One that has mastered the Maze knows its turns and twists and
        route ... others attempting to find it on their own have an
        infinitely more difficult time of it...

        B: To feel it's right! What is the "Source"? My ego is manageable...
        it can change...

        G: hahahahaha and so the ego thinks.... Has ego brought you Peace?
        has Ego brought you lasting Joy and Knowing the Eternal from the
        transient? Can Ego dispel the illusion of death? the ego -
        which clings to the form and transient is death...

        B: > depends on my inner state. What i don't understand is why
        people want to get rid of the past, when the past is the only thing
        that helps them understand?!

        G: as long as you are caught up in past things then you are not NOW..
        if it can be viewed with dispassion then one can see through the
        fallacy of pasts mis-adventures... you either live NOW or not
        at all... can you bring back a past happening? No..
        you cannot cling to a past event of glory nor can you dispel
        a past event of pain by trying to re-create it and resolve it...
        it may simply be seen as coming from ignorance and when the
        truth of it all is cognised it no longer has a hold upon the
        Now...


        B: So here's how i see the things: there is the past – the history,
        to be analysed – and the the heart –which represents the present in
        this case. In order to do a change to myself i use those tools. In
        order to make a decision, i use those tools..

        G: if you can do with without reaction... for most are not seeing
        clearly but instead reacting to situations based upon past...
        a reaction is not making a rational decision but simply having
        an immediate response to a situation which is most often blown
        out of proportion to the unfolding event at hand... IF on
        the other hand one is in the moment without reacting to a past
        event then there is clarity to see the unfolding situation at
        present in clarity without the glasses of past conditioning...
        One can use witnessing or being a step back from what is
        unfolding to learn from and change the patterns that have been
        established from past events that are reations.. if you are
        far enough removed from the drama at hand you Can see the patterns
        enquire into them and then they will fall....


        B: everything that i do and will do i'll use those tools...
        > So, this is me: a mind, a soul and a consciousness which i think is
        the witness you are talking about)--there is nothing relative in
        that. What i know is that i started existing since my parents made
        > me and i will stop being when i will die (because i
        > think that without a conscious people don't exist.

        G: so start where you are and find out if that is true or not...
        What is consciousness? is it attached to a brain? is it
        attached to a body form? those that have experienced out of
        body experiences Know that it is not... in meditation one can
        know that it depends not on the body in the least... the body
        must have consciousness to operate but consciousness does not
        need a gross body to live... there is the gross form and a
        subtle form and the subtle form is ongoing...

        B: > When people die, their mind, soul and conscious dies
        > too)..

        G: on what evidence do you have that you can make that statement?
        you do not Know that to be truth but have accepted as a concept
        that it is so....

        B: So, this world exists as long as i exist. When i shall not be
        anymore, this world will stop existing for me... Perception is the
        one that makes us see the things around us. My perception will stop
        when i'll close my eyes forever..

        G: so why try to change anything or be better if you truly beleive
        that you are some finite creature? if you truly believe that
        death is the end then why to be better at all? it is because
        death is Not the end and that within people have a conscience
        which speaks to this fact... it might be slight but it is there
        for they have lived many times before and will live again the
        same unfolding dramas until the Truth sets them free from their
        own creations...

        B: > What is Jnana?

        G: it is the path of Direct Knowledge.. it is one in which the
        seeker is guided to find out the wisdom and truth within
        themselves.... it is not a set of facts which are *taught*
        and told to be accepted... it is a path wherein the Teacher
        /Guide instructs and gives the tools to go within and to
        discover the Source that IS....


        B: And what is shanti om?

        Om is the representation and eternal sound of the Formless
        Source...
        Shanti means Peace.... Maha-Shanti means Great Peace...

        shanti shanti Maha Shanti OM ...g...


        > Thank you,
        > mirela

        you are welcome

        .g.
      • Jeff Belyea <jeff@mindgoal.com>
        Thank you, Mirela, for drawing out these wonderful teachings from one who is so willing to share her enlightened wisdom. What a joy to read your exchange.
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 29, 2002
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          Thank you,
          Mirela,
          for drawing
          out these
          wonderful
          teachings
          from one
          who is
          so willing
          to share
          her enlightened
          wisdom.
          What a joy
          to read
          your exchange.
          Beautiful.
          Clarity.
          Bliss.

          Namaskar,
          Ganga.

          Jeff
        • Jason <jfishman2@msn.com>
          G, How truly insightful the words you write. Words to the I unexperienced are only mere words and can be found in many texts. Your energies toward others
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 29, 2002
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            G,

            How truly insightful the words you write. Words to the "I"
            unexperienced are only mere words and can be found in many texts.
            Your energies toward others eternal peace is always a wonderful read.

            Mirela,

            What magnificent questions! The peace you write of is sought by
            many, it is not the peace eternal. Through this site and many others
            that have touched the "beyond" (for lack of a better description)
            there are tools that may help you see the meaning of the words that
            G has written. Many forms of meditation practices are available, as
            well as, libraries full of text that are at the disposal for others
            looking "beyond" the "i" (morality, society, change, form and
            knowledge are just a few of the basis of "i"). Only within ones self
            will one find the truth, for it is within, that all begins and ends.

            Peace on your journey



            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "G
            <crystalkundalini@h...>" <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, mirela basa
            > <basamirela@y...> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Hello G,
            > Hello and Namaste-
            > >
            > > I think people can share the answers that they have
            > > found, but it will be just that: sharing and nothing
            > > more. As there aren't two persons on the Earth that
            > > are the same, one's answers couldn't fit to the
            > > other's life.
            >
            > G: i am not addressing relative answers... nor relative knowledge
            > which is transient.. i am addressing the Unchanging Eternal Truth
            > which Changes Not... there is a vast differance between the
            two...
            >
            > i agree until the Eternal Truth is known one lives in a
            universe
            > of thier own colorations and each is in a world of thier own
            > making... no two live life the same Except those that are within
            the
            > world but no longer of it.... until then what you say is true
            > enough but i say in all honesty that there is a way out of the
            world
            > of conditionings .....
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > B: The first step to the wisdom is self knowing. So, maybe the
            other
            > can help only here: to know yourself better.
            >
            > G: i agree... this is why i work with people one to one so that
            > they can find out HOW to come to Know the Essense of Self versus
            the
            > relational ego identity which is viewed as the self in its
            entirety..
            > This can only happen when you are no longer chasing the externals
            to
            > try to find out who you are but instead go within and find out
            what
            > you are NOT until only that which is unmoving Remains...
            >
            >
            > B: I don't know what the Truth is, or where is, but i do
            > > know that once you've found yourself being in the true way you
            are,
            > and doing everything as your true being says, that is truth for
            me.
            >
            > G: how can you make that statement after saying that you don't
            know
            > what the Truth is? that is a rationalization of simply following
            the
            > ego desires and accepting that is what propels who you are... but
            if
            > you are content within this then fine go for it... but you will
            find
            > that it brings you no lasting happiness or peace ...
            >
            > B: That makes me fear less, and gives me courage to move on. The
            more
            > is true, the less is fear...
            >
            > G: then rather than chase fantasy's Stop and start to go within
            > question what you are ... Live your highest Truth and Live from
            > Gratitude and Love... Those are high ideals and will give you a
            > focus to start... There is Nothing to Fear except living in
            > continued ignorance which is what causes and continues the path of
            > pain or chasing false desires taking them to be paths to
            > fulfillment... Seek to experience Truth above all... Start with
            > Gratitude and then move into Love...
            >
            > B: > If the answers are not in the mind and not in the feelings,
            than
            > where are they?
            >
            > G: they are Not in the relative world or it's outcomes... it is
            > beyond within the Source... when you have surrendered your all to
            > Source then Grace will come.. Grace pulls one into Source..
            where
            > the illusion of the world is dispelled and the Truth is KNOWN at
            core
            > level... no longer a conjecture but as a FACT... in THAT moment
            > the search ends and Life is Lived.. you must go there through
            the
            > Heart.. i speak not to the heart of feelings and emotions but the
            > Heart of Truth which is within where no within or without
            remains...
            > It may indeed be entered into... you are a Temple of the Living
            God
            > and within is where Truth is found...
            >
            >
            > B: Everything is relative on this Universe!!
            >
            > G: this is why Christ said be in the world but Not of it... i am
            > not speaking to the relative Universe.. yet if you KNOW from
            > which it springs you will KNOW the relative Universe as it
            IS...
            > if you KNOW yourself then you will Know from where it
            springs...
            >
            > B: And everything is changing!!
            >
            > G: within the relative yes... that is so... within the Infinite
            > Source it is eternally the Unchanging Truth... Once that is
            > Known then you have a Stable Foundation.. you know while the
            > Universe is ever in flux it remains within and permeated by
            the
            > Unchanging Constant and minus the personal identity you are
            THAT.
            >
            > B: > Everything is born and after a while is dying...
            >
            > G: only form which is from the earthly elements falls away...
            > the form is only a vehicle of experience within this plane of
            > existance but you are beyond and more than this plane of
            > existance....
            >
            > B: > creatures, plants, stars etc.. There is a path that we
            > > are following... everyone has a path of it's own... i
            > > have my path and i shall follow it. But it's up to me
            > > to let the things flow (in the right way) or to interveen and
            make
            > my own stream...
            >
            > G: yes everyone has Free Will... and may stay following the
            > transient and caught within the web of their own spinning...
            > chasing desire after empty desire.. coming round after round
            > into birth and death within this physical plane of form or may
            > move forward to more subtle planes and higher awareness...
            > No one says that you have to be liberated... you have a right
            > to your life whatever it is as long as you do not cause the
            > suffering to others and in that you will pay the karmic debts
            > that you create...
            >
            > B: > What is "BEYOND"?
            >
            > G: hahahahaha BEYOND is what the rational mind cannot cognise nor
            > see... it is THAT which is beyond the 5 senses not seen with
            > physical eyes or ears...
            >
            > B: Where is that?
            >
            > G: it is everywhere present but not known nor seen unless Divine
            > Eyes and Wisdom are opened...
            >
            > B: What does it mean? Is it easy to get there (beyond)?
            >
            > G: for some it is easier than others... but it comes only when
            one
            > truly within their heart of hearts desires to KNOW and Cognise
            > The Truth or God.. it takes being able to lay yourself on the
            > sacrificial altar of truth until only the Source remains...
            > The ornament of personal self is melted and refined until the
            > Substance of Gold is known from which it was created from...
            > The vision of the Ornament receeds and the Substance which is
            > ever pure is KNOWN to be the Truth of its existance... the form
            > which it finds itself in is simply due to the fashioning of
            > external elements and conditioning - the worker fashions it
            into
            > a unique piece but the substance remains ever the same...
            > Core Self is the Substance of the Eternal ONE that One has no
            > relationship with other but is Whole as IS.....
            >
            > B: I don't see a problem in "the changing I", uncontrarely, i see
            it
            > is a good thing, what would we do if we won't ever change?
            >
            > G: hahahahaha as long as an "I" remains there will be change...
            with
            > form all changes... but beyond the relative I cognition is THAT
            > which is Beyond Birth and Death... there is only LIFE for death
            does
            > not touch that ONE... death touches the finite illusion and the
            > dream of the dreamer... but you are in Truth not this finite
            > creation... Truth is Unchanging.. Reality which the transient
            > rests within and is permeated by does not change... Only the outer
            > layer changes like the panorama of a movie across and empty
            > unchanging screen... the Light that makes the vision seen is the
            > reflection of Source... the intellect which gives the ability to
            > know and cognise is also the outcome or reflection of Source...
            >
            > B: I would like to change (in the better)!!
            >
            > G: the personality changes while the Source is unchanging and is
            Pure
            > as IS.... it is the mind that changes and with the mind the
            > actions...
            > When the Purity Is Known then actions will come into alignment
            with
            > THAT Knowing...
            >
            > B: I don't think that others can give you any guidance... i
            believe
            > > that the only guidance that may be true is the one from our
            heart.
            >
            > G: yes others may give Guidance but you must walk the way
            yourself...
            > others that have already walked the path inwards Know the way
            and
            > the detours that the ego self would take and get lost within...
            > One that has mastered the Maze knows its turns and twists and
            > route ... others attempting to find it on their own have an
            > infinitely more difficult time of it...
            >
            > B: To feel it's right! What is the "Source"? My ego is
            manageable...
            > it can change...
            >
            > G: hahahahaha and so the ego thinks.... Has ego brought you
            Peace?
            > has Ego brought you lasting Joy and Knowing the Eternal from
            the
            > transient? Can Ego dispel the illusion of death? the ego -
            > which clings to the form and transient is death...
            >
            > B: > depends on my inner state. What i don't understand is why
            > people want to get rid of the past, when the past is the only
            thing
            > that helps them understand?!
            >
            > G: as long as you are caught up in past things then you are not
            NOW..
            > if it can be viewed with dispassion then one can see through
            the
            > fallacy of pasts mis-adventures... you either live NOW or not
            > at all... can you bring back a past happening? No..
            > you cannot cling to a past event of glory nor can you dispel
            > a past event of pain by trying to re-create it and resolve
            it...
            > it may simply be seen as coming from ignorance and when the
            > truth of it all is cognised it no longer has a hold upon the
            > Now...
            >
            >
            > B: So here's how i see the things: there is the past – the
            history,
            > to be analysed – and the the heart –which represents the present
            in
            > this case. In order to do a change to myself i use those tools. In
            > order to make a decision, i use those tools..
            >
            > G: if you can do with without reaction... for most are not seeing
            > clearly but instead reacting to situations based upon past...
            > a reaction is not making a rational decision but simply having
            > an immediate response to a situation which is most often blown
            > out of proportion to the unfolding event at hand... IF on
            > the other hand one is in the moment without reacting to a past
            > event then there is clarity to see the unfolding situation at
            > present in clarity without the glasses of past conditioning...
            > One can use witnessing or being a step back from what is
            > unfolding to learn from and change the patterns that have been
            > established from past events that are reations.. if you are
            > far enough removed from the drama at hand you Can see the
            patterns
            > enquire into them and then they will fall....
            >
            >
            > B: everything that i do and will do i'll use those tools...
            > > So, this is me: a mind, a soul and a consciousness which i think
            is
            > the witness you are talking about)--there is nothing relative in
            > that. What i know is that i started existing since my parents made
            > > me and i will stop being when i will die (because i
            > > think that without a conscious people don't exist.
            >
            > G: so start where you are and find out if that is true or not...
            > What is consciousness? is it attached to a brain? is it
            > attached to a body form? those that have experienced out of
            > body experiences Know that it is not... in meditation one can
            > know that it depends not on the body in the least... the body
            > must have consciousness to operate but consciousness does not
            > need a gross body to live... there is the gross form and a
            > subtle form and the subtle form is ongoing...
            >
            > B: > When people die, their mind, soul and conscious dies
            > > too)..
            >
            > G: on what evidence do you have that you can make that
            statement?
            > you do not Know that to be truth but have accepted as a
            concept
            > that it is so....
            >
            > B: So, this world exists as long as i exist. When i shall not be
            > anymore, this world will stop existing for me... Perception is the
            > one that makes us see the things around us. My perception will
            stop
            > when i'll close my eyes forever..
            >
            > G: so why try to change anything or be better if you truly
            beleive
            > that you are some finite creature? if you truly believe that
            > death is the end then why to be better at all? it is because
            > death is Not the end and that within people have a conscience
            > which speaks to this fact... it might be slight but it is
            there
            > for they have lived many times before and will live again the
            > same unfolding dramas until the Truth sets them free from their
            > own creations...
            >
            > B: > What is Jnana?
            >
            > G: it is the path of Direct Knowledge.. it is one in which the
            > seeker is guided to find out the wisdom and truth within
            > themselves.... it is not a set of facts which are *taught*
            > and told to be accepted... it is a path wherein the Teacher
            > /Guide instructs and gives the tools to go within and to
            > discover the Source that IS....
            >
            >
            > B: And what is shanti om?
            >
            > Om is the representation and eternal sound of the Formless
            > Source...
            > Shanti means Peace.... Maha-Shanti means Great Peace...
            >
            > shanti shanti Maha Shanti OM ...g...
            >
            >
            > > Thank you,
            > > mirela
            >
            > you are welcome
            >
            > .g.
          • mirela basa
            Dear Jeff, i m glad you like it, but i m just trying to make the things more clear in my head. Thank you, Mirela Jeff Belyea
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 29, 2002
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              Dear Jeff,
              i'm glad you like it, but i'm just trying to make the things more clear in my head.
              Thank you,
              Mirela
              "Jeff Belyea <jeff@...>" <jeff@...> wrote:
              Thank you,
              Mirela,
              for drawing
              out these
              wonderful
              teachings
              from one
              who is
              so willing
              to share
              her enlightened
              wisdom.
              What a joy
              to read
              your exchange.
              Beautiful.
              Clarity.
              Bliss.

              Namaskar,
              Ganga.

              Jeff



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              Athanor Publishing HouseBd. 1 Decembrie 1918Bl. 105, Ap. 10Petrosani, 2675Hunedoara, Romania0040-721-374 002


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • G <crystalkundalini@hotmail.com>
              ... read. G: it is always difficult to penetrate that first layer into a heartfelt cognition rather than an intellectual discussion and banter of mind... but
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 29, 2002
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                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jason
                <jfishman2@m...>" <jfishman2@m...> wrote:
                > G,
                >
                > How truly insightful the words you write. Words to the "I"
                > unexperienced are only mere words and can be found in many texts.
                > Your energies toward others eternal peace is always a wonderful
                read.

                G: it is always difficult to penetrate that first layer into a
                heartfelt cognition rather than an intellectual discussion
                and banter of mind... but all that may be done is to keep
                giving what may be given and letting spirit do the rest...
                it is like planting seeds some reach stony ground but a few
                just might make it to where they take root and grow...

                shanti shanti maha-shanti om ...g...
              • Athanor
                Thank you Jeff, I do choose joy.. i love joy! there is nothing more beautifull in my life than the freedom.. (I used to travel a lot and i have spent a few
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 1, 2003
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                  Thank you Jeff,
                  I do choose joy.. i love joy! there is nothing more beautifull in my life than the freedom.. (I used to travel a lot and i have spent a few months on the mountains; i have left my parents home at 18) and this freedom brings me a lot of joy in every day of my life... Joy is the one who makes me dance, is the one who makes me open my eyes more and more to reality, joy makes me want to do everything right... as this should be the real state of a human being - JOY.

                  I was saying about pain that it is a great teacher (and it always reminds me to do my "homeworks"), because i think there is a special state when one is in pains... when there is pain, there is also more atention - to both: physical body and the mind... When i'm in pains i know that i see this like a picture, and in this picture i can almost see myself laid in bed with a distorsioned face. When i have a pain, almost my entire atention goes there to "see" it..

                  ps i'm very behind with the talks here.. i didn't feel very well those days

                  mirela
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Jeff Belyea <jeff@...>
                  To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 2:07 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] The OK Corral


                  Mirela -

                  Asking questions is
                  part of the purpose
                  of this group as I
                  read it. We all
                  benefit from the
                  exploration of
                  consciousness, so
                  please keep up the
                  questions. And...

                  Choose joy.

                  In joy and understanding
                  there is clarity and
                  decisive, unencumbered
                  action. Joy is not
                  inactive and unaware
                  or unconcerned. Joy is
                  much better than that.
                  Joy brings unshakable
                  self-confidence, trust
                  in your own judgment
                  and the beautiful,
                  graceful spontaneity
                  of a child. Joy is
                  not selfish, it is
                  caring and kind and
                  wise. Choose joy.

                  The peaceful quiet
                  of meditation opens
                  the door to the real
                  experience of joy -
                  a fullness of joy
                  that sees the entire
                  world as if for the
                  first time in every
                  new moment, sees the
                  love and goodness in
                  everyone, delights in
                  a sunrise, a smile,
                  a hug. Bring joy
                  to the world, Mirela.
                  There's already
                  enough pain.

                  I wish you peace
                  and love and joy
                  and understanding
                  in the new year,
                  and in every new
                  moment.

                  Love,

                  Jeff



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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jeff Belyea <jeff@mindgoal.com>
                  Mirela - Pain distracts awareness, and clouds judgments. Joy focuses awareness and brings clarity. Joy is the better teacher. Love, Jeff
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 2, 2003
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                    Mirela -

                    Pain distracts awareness,
                    and clouds judgments.
                    Joy focuses awareness
                    and brings clarity.

                    Joy is the better teacher.

                    Love,

                    Jeff
                  • Athanor
                    300 years old mirela ... From: Jeff Belyea To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:31 PM
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 2, 2003
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                      300 years old
                      mirela
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Jeff Belyea <jeff@...>
                      To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:31 PM
                      Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: THE SAGE'S AGE


                      Mirela -

                      How old would you
                      be if you didn't
                      know how old you
                      were?

                      Love,

                      Jeff



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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Athanor
                      i was asking you about your age because of the message below... i was just trying to be funny.. mirela ... From: Athanor To:
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jan 2, 2003
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                        i was asking you about your age because of the message below... i was just trying to be funny..
                        mirela
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Athanor
                        To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 7:33 AM
                        Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: THE SAGE'S VIEW


                        Jeff,
                        how old are you?
                        mirela
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Jeff Belyea <jeff@...>
                        To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:39 AM
                        Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: THE SAGE'S VIEW


                        Sweet friend, Judi -

                        Can you possibly keep your
                        slasher tongue in its holster
                        long enough to read more
                        than one sentence? Your
                        self-contradiction is
                        showing all over the place.
                        You say it's not joy, but you call
                        it pure joy. It's not experience
                        but you call it a new
                        perceptual condition.
                        New is necessarily experiential,
                        perception is experiential -
                        understanding is experiential.
                        Semantic hair-splitting
                        just to be an antagonist
                        is your tiresome game.

                        And speaking of place, this
                        really isn't the place for this,
                        but I'm tired of stepping
                        in your smelly bullshit
                        everywhere I go...and I want
                        a shoot out, Rocky.

                        Go ahead and run back to the ranch.
                        I'll be on your trail. I don't
                        like your style, but I grew
                        up with people who walked it
                        and talked it, and I'm willing
                        and able to stand my ground
                        against your bluster, buster.

                        I guess you don't have enough
                        to rant about at the ranch.
                        You got an extra bunk?.
                        You didn't run me off, you
                        invited me back "anytime".
                        Still a standing invitation?
                        You'll have your boys there.

                        I left because your juvenile boys
                        grew ridiculously boring.
                        They didn't scare me off, my
                        side was hurting from laughing
                        at their naivety, pompous parroting,
                        and pitiful pandering to you.
                        You talk about others wanting fawning
                        disciples. What do you have at
                        the ranch? They got nothing.
                        Less than Snarlo's Guru Raters,
                        even.

                        And get real, you jumped around
                        like a tenderfoot with someone
                        shooting at her feet when my
                        inquiries got too hot.

                        You, I challenge to duel...
                        Hot-Air filled Cream puffs
                        at 50 paces. That's about
                        all you got other than
                        a bundt pan.

                        Still reading?...

                        On July 21, 1975 at about
                        9:30am my life changed, a
                        door opened. It was not a flash,
                        not a la la la moment, it was a
                        permanent shift of identity,
                        a new awareness of a reality
                        that I had been separated
                        from - a separate reality -
                        until known, a new overriding
                        current running through my every
                        conscious moment from that
                        moment on. And it was and is
                        blissful, peaceful beyond
                        understanding, and full of joy.
                        Still is.Doesn't mean I don't have
                        a bold and bad-ass ego, or
                        that I run from a scrap.

                        Not all sages are milquetoasts,
                        the best of them have been
                        known to fashion a whip and
                        crack a few heads.

                        Whatever I choose to call
                        my awakening experience
                        cannot be negated by your
                        constant carping. Its wasted.
                        The person who entered
                        the meditation center,
                        after 24 years of seeking,
                        never left. He ceased to exit.
                        (Sound familiar?)

                        So you don't subscribe to
                        the Boddisattva vow? I do.
                        I took it. I honor it.

                        Your shots at my ego
                        are in vain. I grin
                        and bear it, because I don't
                        miss the wry smile behind
                        all your seeming ferocity.

                        But for the sake of
                        those who are here
                        for inquiry...

                        Can't you ever just shut
                        the fuck up, and let someone
                        speak without whacking them on
                        the head with your tight-ass,
                        self-righteous, know-it-all
                        table of the Judi commandments?

                        Your need to straighten
                        out all the error you
                        see in everyone else
                        might have something to
                        do with the ego you
                        consistently see
                        all around you.

                        Rude enough to win
                        you over?

                        Your blissed out bawdy friend,

                        Jeff

                        PS: My apologies to the gentle folks here
                        for this evening's R-Rated entertainment.
                        Somewhere there's a lesson here.I'm going
                        to go see what's cookin' at the ranch.



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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Jeff Belyea <jeff@mindgoal.com>
                        Mirela - You have great wisdom for your age. Love, Jeff
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jan 2, 2003
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                          Mirela -

                          You have great wisdom
                          for your age.

                          Love,

                          Jeff
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