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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Prayer Ineffective - - -

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  • Bruce Morgen
    Actually, it was the aggressive guru-touting post that started this ball rolling imo. I think if folks can refrain from such promotional activities, we can
    Message 1 of 29 , Apr 11, 2006
      Actually, it was the aggressive
      guru-touting post that started
      this ball rolling imo. I think
      if folks can refrain from such
      promotional activities, we can
      also avoid distasteful (but
      understandable) reactions to
      what amounts to copy and paste
      list spamming.

      suman sk wrote:

      > hey admin...
      > this has been too much. why dont u ban jodyr from this group..
      >
      > SK
      >
      > */Vernellia.Randall@.../* wrote:
      >
      >
      > I am new to the list. I joined it because I am beginning a
      > spiritual journey. I do anti-racism work and I work in a hostile
      > environment. I do not want to be on a list where individuals are
      > dealing with each other in a hostile manner. For Example:
      >
      > "Due to such sacred aim the Lord is authorized to
      > punish the soul.
      > Bring it on, you pathetic wannabe godman."
      >
      > I have enough of that in my daily life. I am not asking anyone to
      > change or do anything different - but I want to know so I can make
      > a choice about whether this is the right list for me.
      >
      > Vernellia
      >
      > -----meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com wrote: -----
      >
      > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
      > From: "jodyrrr" <jodyrrr@...>
      > Sent by: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: 04/11/2006 11:40AM
      > Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Prayer
      > Ineffective - - -
      >
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
      > <dattapr2000@...> wrote:
      >
      > [snip]
      >
      > > Due to such sacred aim the Lord is authorized to punish the
      > soul.
      >
      > Bring it on, you pathetic wannabe godman.
      >
      >
      >
    • medit8ionsociety
      ... a spiritual journey. I do anti-racism work and I work in a hostile environment. I do not want to be on a list where individuals are dealing with each other
      Message 2 of 29 , Apr 11, 2006
        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
        Vernellia.Randall@... wrote:
        >
        > I am new to the list. I joined it because I am beginning
        a spiritual journey. I do anti-racism work and I work in
        a hostile environment. I do not want to be on a list where
        individuals are dealing with each other in a hostile manner.
        For Example:
        >
        >>"Due to such sacred aim the Lord is authorized
        to punish the soul.

        >>>Bring it on, you pathetic wannabe godman."
        >
        > I have enough of that in my daily life. I am not asking
        anyone to change or do anything different - but I want to
        know so I can make a choice about whether this is the right
        list for me.
        >
        > Vernellia
        >
        Yo Vernellia,
        I think that Jodyji is sincere and trying to make an effort
        to divert anyone from following a false guru, and he is doing
        it in a way he is comfortable with. Similarly, Dattaji is
        trying to get people to follow who he thinks is a true Godman,
        and doing it in the way he is comfortable. And both have
        good intentions. But which is really "right"? One seemingly
        berates the other, and the other seems to be threatening to
        "punish" any who don't buy into his story. So between them,
        we have an opportunity to look within and see if there are
        any Jodys or Dattas in us. And we learn. And we can post a
        query that asks if this is appropriate, because that's what
        we feel comfortable with, as it seems to be what you are
        doing. And all these are potentially valuable lessons in
        spiritual evolution. I think if you explore the 14,000+
        previous posts, you will find the vast majority are filled
        with compassion and humility, and not typified by the ones
        you have selected here to focus on. But I don't know of any
        group where there is such a diversity of religious/spiritual
        meditation practices being shared and commented on. And after
        all, you will see with the eyes you see with, and hear with
        the ears you hear with, and get out of that what you will.
        And sometimes a gentle caress will just put you to sleep,
        and sometimes it takes a hearty shake to awaken. And I think
        we're blessed to have a occasional shaker to go along with
        the many many caresser's we have in this group.
        Peace and blessings,
        Bob
      • jodyrrr
        Ok folks. I ll leave Swami Datta alone. ... journey. I do anti-racism work and I work in a hostile environment. I do not want to be on a list where
        Message 3 of 29 , Apr 11, 2006
          Ok folks. I'll leave Swami Datta alone.

          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
          Vernellia.Randall@... wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > I am new to the list. I joined it because I am beginning a spiritual
          journey. I do anti-racism work and I work in a hostile environment. I
          do not want to be on a list where individuals are dealing with each
          other in a hostile manner. For Example:
          >
          > "Due to such sacred aim the Lord is authorized to punish
          the soul.
          > Bring it on, you pathetic wannabe godman."
          >
          > I have enough of that in my daily life. I am not asking anyone to
          change or do anything different - but I want to know so I can make a
          choice about whether this is the right list for me.
          >
          > Vernellia
          >
          > -----meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com wrote: -----
          >
          >
          > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
          > From: "jodyrrr" <jodyrrr@...>
          > Sent by: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: 04/11/2006 11:40AM
          > Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Prayer Ineffective - - -
          >
          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
          > <dattapr2000@> wrote:
          >
          > [snip]
          >
          > > Due to such sacred aim the Lord is authorized to punish the soul.
          >
          > Bring it on, you pathetic wannabe godman.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          >
          > Visit your group " meditationsocietyofamerica " on the web.
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service .
          >
        • jodyrrr
          ... Datta attempts to use this list as his own recruiting pool by making grandiose claims about himself. It s like a small town theater director telling you
          Message 4 of 29 , Apr 11, 2006
            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, suman sk
            <sumansk@...> wrote:
            >
            > hey admin...
            > this has been too much. why dont u ban jodyr from this group..
            >
            > SK

            Datta attempts to use this list as his own recruiting pool by making
            grandiose claims about himself. It's like a small town theater
            director telling you he's making a 60 million dollar movie and that he
            wants you as his star.

            Please note I was antagonizing Datta to use his divine powers to smite
            me. All these inflated head cases are the same. They say they can
            make things happen by way of their God-like powers, but as soon as you
            ask them to do something, they demure and make excuses.

            But I don't want to scare anyone off, so I will refrain from these
            kinds of comments here from now on.



            > Vernellia.Randall@... wrote:
            >
            > I am new to the list. I joined it because I am beginning a
            spiritual journey. I do anti-racism work and I work in a hostile
            environment. I do not want to be on a list where individuals are
            dealing with each other in a hostile manner. For Example:
            >
            > "Due to such sacred aim the Lord is authorized to
            punish the soul.
            > Bring it on, you pathetic wannabe godman."
            >
            > I have enough of that in my daily life. I am not asking anyone to
            change or do anything different - but I want to know so I can make a
            choice about whether this is the right list for me.
            >
            > Vernellia
            >
            > -----meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com wrote: -----
            >
            > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
            > From: "jodyrrr" <jodyrrr@...>
            > Sent by: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: 04/11/2006 11:40AM
            > Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Prayer Ineffective - - -
            >
            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
            > <dattapr2000@> wrote:
            >
            > [snip]
            >
            > > Due to such sacred aim the Lord is authorized to punish the soul.
            >
            > Bring it on, you pathetic wannabe godman.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
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            >
            >
            > Visit your group "meditationsocietyofamerica" on the web.
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
            >
            >
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          • prakki surya
            Swamiji has already shown His power by writing extraordinary divine messages. sofar not only you, anybody on the net could intersect with any counter logic.
            Message 5 of 29 , Apr 11, 2006
              Swamiji has already shown His power by writing extraordinary divine messages. sofar not only you, anybody on the net could intersect with any counter logic. You could not attack the logic & concept but like a street fighter, you are attacking personally. Demon Sisupala accused Lord Krishna 100 times and all the 100 times, He did not say anything. Afterwards also Lord killed Him without any trace of revenge in His act. He killed Him to eliminate the sinner as part of establishing justice. Such is the divine nature, which you can never understand.
               
              This shows that Lord is above fame ...etc. Even great scientists were not identified during their time. Some were killed, some were tortured ...  etc. Even after passing of so many decades, so called advancement of science..., it is the pathetic state of humanity that their egoism and jelousy were never crucified. It is really horrible if we remember cases like crucifixion of Jesus, black magic on Adi Sankara etc. Few people of such quality are there who does such activities. They have to pay for their deeds severely afterwards.
               
              If you keep Jesus in the place of the present human incarnation and place the same blind priests in the place of present blind followers, you can understand the truth because the same story and the same cinema is repeated with different actors having different names. This is the best way of understanding the truth. Those priests also opposed Jesus, when He argued with wonderful reason. The duty of the teacher finishes by teaching clearly to the class. It is up to the student to grasp it and pass or twist it and fail following the sweet emotional advises of bad blind friends. The Lord is not worried about the percentage of pass because there is no fault in His teaching. He should not be blamed for the pass or failure of the students. A student himself is to be blamed.
               
              When the messenger comes to the earth, he delivers his duty so that the God is pleased with him in the upper world. He is not bothered about the fame in this world or the number of followers. God will not find fault with the messenger if the human beings did not pass. He finds fault with the messenger if the message is not properly delivered. Jesus never bothered about propagation of His knowledge. His aim was only to sit on the right side of His pleased Father after doing the duty assigned by Him. He never cared even if the people rejected, insulted and even crucified Him. His aim was God but not the world.
               
              at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
              surya
              www.universal-spirituality.org

              jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
              Datta attempts to use this list as his own recruiting pool by making grandiose claims about himself.  It's like a small town theater director telling you he's making a 60 million dollar movie and that he wants you as his star.

              Please note I was antagonizing Datta to use his divine powers to smite me.  All these inflated head cases are the same.  They say they can make things happen by way of their God-like powers, but as soon as you ask them to do something, they demure and make excuses.


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            • jogeshwarmahanta
              ... meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, jogeshwarmahanta ... That is ridiculous. ... The deniel analogy is great without any assertion on the point.
              Message 6 of 29 , Apr 12, 2006
                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In
                meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
                > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
                > >

                "That is ridiculous.
                >
                > Using the evidence of siddhis to determine the fitness of
                > a guru is like expecting a baby to pop out of the womb in
                > full speech because his mother was an English professor."

                The deniel analogy is great without any assertion on the point.

                regards,
                Jogeshwar







                > > 1.Sat guru can be only he/she who neither tacitly nor by
                expression
                > > claims so.
                > >
                > > 2. He/she who has regulated his/her metabolism favourably-
                neither
                > > bald, nor wears glass, nor has wrinkles on his/her skin etc etc.
                >
                > That is ridiculous.
                >
                > Using the evidence of siddhis to determine the fitness of
                > a guru is like expecting a baby to pop out of the womb in
                > full speech because his mother was an English professor.
                >
                > > regards,
                > > Jogeshwar
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                > > <jodyrrr@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                > > > <dattapr2000@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > [snip]
                > > >
                > > > > In all these the disciples identified the Lord in the human
                > > > > form during their time and participated in His mission as
                > > > > servants. So, first one should identify the Satguru and then
                > > > > learn divine knowledge from Him. These disciples worshipped
                > > > > their Satguru. At His order, they participated in the
                > > propagation
                > > > > of divine knowledge as Service to Lord. Service only proves
                our
                > > > > real devotion, which consists of Karma phala tyaga
                (sacrifice of
                > > > > money) & karma sanyasa (physically participating in His
                mission).
                > > >
                > > > Horrendously self-serving caterwauling for money and
                > > > someone to boss around noted.
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • jodyrrr
                ... There is no need to attack the mythological with logic. Swami s message is nothing more than self-aggrandizement at the expense of readers who know better.
                Message 7 of 29 , Apr 12, 2006
                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                  <dattapr2000@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Swamiji has already shown His power by writing extraordinary
                  > divine messages. sofar not only you, anybody on the net could
                  > intersect with any counter logic. You could not attack the
                  > logic & concept but like a street fighter, you are attacking
                  > personally.

                  There is no need to attack the mythological with logic.

                  Swami's message is nothing more than self-aggrandizement
                  at the expense of readers who know better. I'm challenging
                  him personally. Put up or shut up. As expected, he has
                  nothing to show for his divinity save for more self-serving
                  rhetoric.
                • jogeshwarmahanta
                  Swami s message is nothing more than self-aggrandizement ... jodyrrr! Are you really a meditator?
                  Message 8 of 29 , Apr 15, 2006
                    "Swami's message is nothing more than self-aggrandizement
                    > at the expense of readers who know better. I'm challenging
                    > him personally. Put up or shut up. As expected, he has
                    > nothing to show for his divinity save for more self-serving
                    > rhetoric"

                    jodyrrr! Are you really a meditator?





                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                    <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                    > <dattapr2000@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Swamiji has already shown His power by writing extraordinary
                    > > divine messages. sofar not only you, anybody on the net could
                    > > intersect with any counter logic. You could not attack the
                    > > logic & concept but like a street fighter, you are attacking
                    > > personally.
                    >
                    > There is no need to attack the mythological with logic.
                    >
                    > Swami's message is nothing more than self-aggrandizement
                    > at the expense of readers who know better. I'm challenging
                    > him personally. Put up or shut up. As expected, he has
                    > nothing to show for his divinity save for more self-serving
                    > rhetoric.
                    >
                  • jodyrrr
                    ... Yes.
                    Message 9 of 29 , Apr 17, 2006
                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
                      <jogeshwarmahanta@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > "Swami's message is nothing more than self-aggrandizement
                      > > at the expense of readers who know better. I'm challenging
                      > > him personally. Put up or shut up. As expected, he has
                      > > nothing to show for his divinity save for more self-serving
                      > > rhetoric"
                      >
                      > jodyrrr! Are you really a meditator?

                      Yes.
                    • jogeshwarmahanta
                      Gains/accomplishments so far?
                      Message 10 of 29 , Apr 17, 2006
                        Gains/accomplishments so far?




                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                        <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
                        > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > "Swami's message is nothing more than self-aggrandizement
                        > > > at the expense of readers who know better. I'm challenging
                        > > > him personally. Put up or shut up. As expected, he has
                        > > > nothing to show for his divinity save for more self-serving
                        > > > rhetoric"
                        > >
                        > > jodyrrr! Are you really a meditator?
                        >
                        > Yes.
                        >
                      • jodyrrr
                        ... I ve never meditated for gain or accomplishment.
                        Message 11 of 29 , Apr 18, 2006
                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
                          <jogeshwarmahanta@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Gains/accomplishments so far?

                          I've never meditated for gain or
                          accomplishment.

                          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                          > <jodyrrr@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
                          > > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > "Swami's message is nothing more than self-aggrandizement
                          > > > > at the expense of readers who know better. I'm challenging
                          > > > > him personally. Put up or shut up. As expected, he has
                          > > > > nothing to show for his divinity save for more self-serving
                          > > > > rhetoric"
                          > > >
                          > > > jodyrrr! Are you really a meditator?
                          > >
                          > > Yes.
                          > >
                          >
                        • blueoceantiger
                          ... jogeshwarmahanta ... hi jody: ... just curious whether you would be willing to articulate what moves you to meditate and what your experience is of
                          Message 12 of 29 , Apr 18, 2006
                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                            <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
                            > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Gains/accomplishments so far?
                            >
                            > I've never meditated for gain or
                            > accomplishment.
                            >
                            > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                            > > <jodyrrr@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                            "jogeshwarmahanta"
                            > > > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > "Swami's message is nothing more than self-aggrandizement
                            > > > > > at the expense of readers who know better. I'm challenging
                            > > > > > him personally. Put up or shut up. As expected, he has
                            > > > > > nothing to show for his divinity save for more self-serving
                            > > > > > rhetoric"
                            > > > >
                            > > > > jodyrrr! Are you really a meditator?
                            > > >
                            > > > Yes.
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >

                            hi jody:

                            you wrote:

                            > I've never meditated for gain or
                            > accomplishment.

                            just curious whether you would be willing
                            to articulate what moves you to meditate
                            and what your experience is of meditating.
                            what value or benefit do you find, assuming
                            it is positive for you?

                            love,
                            --josie
                          • jodyrrr
                            ... wrote: [snip] ... There isn t much to say, Josie. My guru gave the mantra and so I say it. I imagine there are benefits, but I don t think
                            Message 13 of 29 , Apr 18, 2006
                              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "blueoceantiger"
                              <jkane@...> wrote:

                              [snip]

                              > hi jody:
                              >
                              > you wrote:
                              >
                              > > I've never meditated for gain or
                              > > accomplishment.
                              >
                              > just curious whether you would be willing
                              > to articulate what moves you to meditate
                              > and what your experience is of meditating.
                              > what value or benefit do you find, assuming
                              > it is positive for you?
                              >
                              > love,
                              > --josie

                              There isn't much to say, Josie. My guru gave
                              the mantra and so I say it. I imagine there
                              are benefits, but I don't think about them and
                              couldn't really say except maybe that the mind
                              is a bit more calm than it would have been
                              otherwise.
                            • AKBAR HIRANI
                              Hey Jody when one meditates he or she does it to feel the presence of God and His Super Intelligence insude as well as obtain peace of mind, heart and soul,.
                              Message 14 of 29 , Apr 20, 2006
                                Hey Jody when one meditates he or she does it to feel the presence of God and His Super Intelligence insude as well as obtain peace of mind, heart and soul,. Not with a purpose  to gain material success or anything else. Once you are selfish in meditation its not a meditation but shallow thinking which will not get you the spititual enlightenment nor inner peace, happiness, or strength.
                                 
                                You can better achieve worldly success by higher education, hard work etc. and not by meditation alone.
                                 
                                AKBAR.


                                jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
                                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "blueoceantiger"
                                <jkane@...> wrote:

                                [snip]

                                > hi jody:
                                >
                                > you wrote:
                                >
                                > > I've never meditated for gain or
                                > > accomplishment.
                                >
                                > just curious whether you would be willing
                                > to articulate what moves you to meditate
                                > and what your experience is of meditating.
                                > what value or benefit do you find, assuming
                                > it is positive for you?
                                >
                                > love,
                                > --josie

                                There isn't much to say, Josie.  My guru gave
                                the mantra and so I say it.  I imagine there
                                are benefits, but I don't think about them and
                                couldn't really say except maybe that the mind
                                is a bit more calm than it would have been
                                otherwise.






                                '' THE HORSE THINKS ONE THING
                                   AND HE WHO SADDLES ANOTHER ''. AGH.          
                                 


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                              • jogeshwarmahanta
                                Josie You have rightly elicited what I wanted to know from jodyrr. A cause has an effect and an action has its results. I think none acts for nothing. regards,
                                Message 15 of 29 , Apr 20, 2006
                                  Josie

                                  You have rightly elicited what I wanted to know from jodyrr. A cause
                                  has an effect and an action has its results. I think none acts for
                                  nothing.

                                  regards,
                                  Jogeshwar






                                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                                  <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "blueoceantiger"
                                  > <jkane@> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > [snip]
                                  >
                                  > > hi jody:
                                  > >
                                  > > you wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > > I've never meditated for gain or
                                  > > > accomplishment.
                                  > >
                                  > > just curious whether you would be willing
                                  > > to articulate what moves you to meditate
                                  > > and what your experience is of meditating.
                                  > > what value or benefit do you find, assuming
                                  > > it is positive for you?
                                  > >
                                  > > love,
                                  > > --josie
                                  >
                                  > There isn't much to say, Josie. My guru gave
                                  > the mantra and so I say it. I imagine there
                                  > are benefits, but I don't think about them and
                                  > couldn't really say except maybe that the mind
                                  > is a bit more calm than it would have been
                                  > otherwise.
                                  >
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