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Re: Could this be called a practice?

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  • Jeff Belyea
    ... practice. ... intents of ... whatever, ... much ... case, ... go, ... let´s ... or ... nothing, ... suggested ... tired ... (immersed ... that ... almost
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 5 5:53 AM
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Maria Luisa"
      <mlcanow@...> wrote:
      >
      > In my view, all the practices can be reduced to one single
      practice.
      > At the end, all of them lead to it, if so. Purifications, letting
      > go´s, observation, discrimination, repetitions, being still,
      intents of
      > mindfullness, meditation, being in the now, focussing, and
      whatever,
      > can be reduced into simple self enquiry, which does not need of
      much
      > training. It is one step practice. If we can call it so. In any
      case,
      > there is no guarantee of it 'functioning', for the needed
      > concetration for this depends on how able one is to be still, let
      go,
      > observe, discriminate, concentrate..........:-) or just how tired,
      > exhausted, one is of being the one, one is supposed to be. But
      let´s
      > see.
      >
      > Thoughts are impermanent for they arise and disappear. The first
      or
      > most recurrent thought tends to be the thought 'I'. To follow the
      > trade of this thought until reaching the source from where it takes
      > rise would make evident that this thought appears as if from
      nothing,
      > to then disappear into the same place.
      > The biggest cloud in this respect is that we believe that thoughts
      > occur to us. MY thoughts, taking this thinker as "I", which in
      > reality is the root thought. "I" is a thought. First premise, yes,
      > but nobody is ever convinced of this, so that is why it is
      suggested
      > to investigate the 'place' from where this "I", as a thought,
      > appears. And that´s all that can be done. Only when there is the
      > eagerness to do this investigation, I mean, when one is really
      tired
      > of being this "I", (of the seeking I) is when self enquiry is in
      > truth done.
      >
      > Realization of the reality of what we are is so simple, so near, so
      > obvious and immediate, but at the same time, we are so used
      (immersed
      > in the tendency) to follow the thoughts and their continuity which
      > generates stories, that it seems rare and difficult to recognize
      that
      > This, (which seems as if no-where, no-place, as if nothing, from
      > which the thought 'I' or any other thought arises), Is what we are.
      > Even to mention this would make a lot of people run away, for
      almost
      > nobody wants to buy this scary proposition.
      > Now, following the thread
      > (of thoughts :-))
      > being this a tendency (to follow the thoughts), the practice of
      self
      > enquiry (to follow the trade of the thought 'I') is a direct and
      > efficient way to cut such tendency from its root. Which, as well
      as I
      > can try to express, does not mean that no more thoughts will ever
      > appear, but that their appearances will be known or recognized as
      > what they are: just appearances in that (which I really am) , this
      no
      > name something or nothing which some call present awareness, others
      > name it nothingness and some others call it consciousness or void
      (a
      > non fashionable way would be God) and the way I use to express it
      is
      > 'existence from ever and for ever'.
      >
      > (I seem to be mentioning a 'way' here, which also seems to be out
      of
      > fashion, but I will dare to continue with this.)
      > If we can call this a practice, between the so called purifying
      > practices for a 'mind to be ready for enlightenment' or to 'deserve
      > the Grace', as some seekers use to place, this would be an
      effective
      > one. Ramana Maharshi said about self enquiry that it was the
      practice
      > and the goal. But then again, everybody wants something better than
      > what they have (are) now, so there is always something missing,
      grace
      > is missing, the right moment has not come yet, and so on.
      > The purification that so many practices called 'spiritual' seek, is
      > in reality, as I have understood, the cutting of the road we are
      used
      > to follow, this means, to make a very strong STOP in the current of
      > thoughts that tend to arise, and to pay attention to that or this,
      > which is as if from no where, as if from nothing, that from where
      > this same attention arise and disappears. Not being attention
      > directed to any other thought in this instant, attention disappears
      > in its own source. (Well, at least I am trying to explain how I
      think
      > it may happen, though it may not happen this way) All there is,
      then,
      > is what always is in this very instant from ever and for ever. Any
      > other instant (before or after) is just another thought happening
      in
      > this instant.
      >
      > These are my ideas about the 'way'. But trully, trully, what I am
      > sure is that there is no way, only what happens in this instant
      which
      > (for me) could be expressed as 'existence from ever and for ever'.
      > So, a way to get where? Nowhere, only the possible recognition of
      the
      > nature of this ever present reality is what may happen in this
      instant.
      >
      >
      > Maria Luisa
      >

      Beautifully expressed, Maria Luisa.
      It is so interesting that we can write
      or speak so many words about the one
      "Thing"("No-thing") that cannot be put
      into words, and that to talk or write
      about "It" is always fresh and new.

      Jeff
    • medit8ionsociety
      ... intents of ... case, ... go, ... nothing, ... (immersed ... that ... I ... no ... is ... practice ... grace ... used ... think ... then, ... which ... the
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 5 5:54 AM
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Maria Luisa"
        <mlcanow@...> wrote:
        >
        > In my view, all the practices can be reduced to one single practice.
        > At the end, all of them lead to it, if so. Purifications, letting
        > go´s, observation, discrimination, repetitions, being still,
        intents of
        > mindfullness, meditation, being in the now, focussing, and whatever,
        > can be reduced into simple self enquiry, which does not need of much
        > training. It is one step practice. If we can call it so. In any
        case,
        > there is no guarantee of it 'functioning', for the needed
        > concetration for this depends on how able one is to be still, let
        go,
        > observe, discriminate, concentrate..........:-) or just how tired,
        > exhausted, one is of being the one, one is supposed to be. But let´s
        > see.
        >
        > Thoughts are impermanent for they arise and disappear. The first or
        > most recurrent thought tends to be the thought 'I'. To follow the
        > trade of this thought until reaching the source from where it takes
        > rise would make evident that this thought appears as if from
        nothing,
        > to then disappear into the same place.
        > The biggest cloud in this respect is that we believe that thoughts
        > occur to us. MY thoughts, taking this thinker as "I", which in
        > reality is the root thought. "I" is a thought. First premise, yes,
        > but nobody is ever convinced of this, so that is why it is suggested
        > to investigate the 'place' from where this "I", as a thought,
        > appears. And that´s all that can be done. Only when there is the
        > eagerness to do this investigation, I mean, when one is really tired
        > of being this "I", (of the seeking I) is when self enquiry is in
        > truth done.
        >
        > Realization of the reality of what we are is so simple, so near, so
        > obvious and immediate, but at the same time, we are so used
        (immersed
        > in the tendency) to follow the thoughts and their continuity which
        > generates stories, that it seems rare and difficult to recognize
        that
        > This, (which seems as if no-where, no-place, as if nothing, from
        > which the thought 'I' or any other thought arises), Is what we are.
        > Even to mention this would make a lot of people run away, for almost
        > nobody wants to buy this scary proposition.
        > Now, following the thread
        > (of thoughts :-))
        > being this a tendency (to follow the thoughts), the practice of self
        > enquiry (to follow the trade of the thought 'I') is a direct and
        > efficient way to cut such tendency from its root. Which, as well as
        I
        > can try to express, does not mean that no more thoughts will ever
        > appear, but that their appearances will be known or recognized as
        > what they are: just appearances in that (which I really am) , this
        no
        > name something or nothing which some call present awareness, others
        > name it nothingness and some others call it consciousness or void (a
        > non fashionable way would be God) and the way I use to express it
        is
        > 'existence from ever and for ever'.
        >
        > (I seem to be mentioning a 'way' here, which also seems to be out of
        > fashion, but I will dare to continue with this.)
        > If we can call this a practice, between the so called purifying
        > practices for a 'mind to be ready for enlightenment' or to 'deserve
        > the Grace', as some seekers use to place, this would be an effective
        > one. Ramana Maharshi said about self enquiry that it was the
        practice
        > and the goal. But then again, everybody wants something better than
        > what they have (are) now, so there is always something missing,
        grace
        > is missing, the right moment has not come yet, and so on.
        > The purification that so many practices called 'spiritual' seek, is
        > in reality, as I have understood, the cutting of the road we are
        used
        > to follow, this means, to make a very strong STOP in the current of
        > thoughts that tend to arise, and to pay attention to that or this,
        > which is as if from no where, as if from nothing, that from where
        > this same attention arise and disappears. Not being attention
        > directed to any other thought in this instant, attention disappears
        > in its own source. (Well, at least I am trying to explain how I
        think
        > it may happen, though it may not happen this way) All there is,
        then,
        > is what always is in this very instant from ever and for ever. Any
        > other instant (before or after) is just another thought happening in
        > this instant.
        >
        > These are my ideas about the 'way'. But trully, trully, what I am
        > sure is that there is no way, only what happens in this instant
        which
        > (for me) could be expressed as 'existence from ever and for ever'.
        > So, a way to get where? Nowhere, only the possible recognition of
        the
        > nature of this ever present reality is what may happen in this
        instant.
        >
        >
        > Maria Luisa
        >
        Dear Maria Luisa,
        It is said that Realization of "IT" happens
        only by Grace. But there seems to be preceeding
        events that prepare one for "THIS". Like when
        soil is cleared of weeds and made ready for
        the seed to be able to grow and come into full
        bloom. I (whoever that is:-)) think that this
        post is just such an enrichment of our inner
        soil. And most certainly a Grace itself. Thanks!
        Peace and blessings,
        Bob
      • Delia Tofolean
        Dear Maria Luisa, you began to find out what the notion of TIME really means. So many theories, so many practices so many holly books...and only one life, one
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 5 6:18 AM
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          Dear Maria Luisa,
           
          you began to find out what the notion of TIME really means. So many theories, so many practices so many holly books...and only one life, one hour, one minute.
           
          One of the truth is that we all try to find "the Kingdom of Heaven" while we are living in this world. And meditation give us a precious solace - all who are called and found faithful, whatever their destiny will find more about this precious knowledge.
           
          Alone to Alone but never Alone...
           
          Serenity and harmony
           
          Delia


          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Maria Luisa"
          <mlcanow@...> wrote:
          >
          > In my view, all the practices can be reduced to one single practice.
          > At the end, all of them lead to it, if so. Purifications, letting
          > go?s, observation, discrimination, repetitions, being still,
          intents of
          > mindfullness, meditation, being in the now, focussing, and whatever,
          > can be reduced into simple self enquiry, which does not need of much
          > training. It is one step practice. If we can call it so. In any
          case,
          > there is no guarantee of it 'functioning', for the needed
          > concetration for this depends on how able one is to be still, let
          go,
          > observe, discriminate, concentrate..........:-) or just how tired,
          > exhausted, one is of being the one, one is supposed to be. But let?s
          > see.
          >
          > Thoughts are impermanent for they arise and disappear.  The first or
          > most recurrent thought tends to be the thought 'I'. To follow the
          > trade of this thought until reaching the source from where it takes
          > rise would make evident that this thought appears as if from
          nothing,
          > to then disappear into the same place.
          > The biggest cloud in this respect is that we believe that thoughts
          > occur to us. MY thoughts, taking this thinker as "I", which in
          > reality is the root thought. "I" is a thought. First premise, yes,
          > but nobody is ever convinced of this, so that is why it is suggested
          > to investigate the 'place' from where this "I", as a thought,
          > appears. And that?s all that can be done. Only when there is the
          > eagerness to do this investigation, I mean, when one is really tired
          > of being this "I", (of the seeking I) is when self enquiry is in
          > truth done.
          >
          > Realization of the reality of what we are is so simple, so near, so
          > obvious and immediate, but at the same time, we are so used
          (immersed
          > in the tendency) to follow the thoughts and their continuity which
          > generates stories, that it seems rare and difficult to recognize
          that
          > This, (which seems as if no-where, no-place, as if nothing, from
          > which the thought 'I' or any other thought arises), Is what we are.
          > Even to mention this would make a lot of people run away, for almost
          > nobody wants to buy this scary proposition.
          > Now, following the thread
          > (of thoughts :-))
          > being this a tendency (to follow the thoughts), the practice of self
          > enquiry (to follow the trade of the thought 'I') is a direct and
          > efficient way to cut such tendency from its root. Which, as well as
          I
          > can try to express, does not mean that no more thoughts will ever
          > appear, but that their appearances will be known or recognized as
          > what they are: just appearances in that (which I really am) , this
          no
          > name something or nothing which some call present awareness, others
          > name it nothingness and some others call it consciousness or void (a
          > non fashionable way would be God)  and the way I use to express it
          is
          > 'existence from ever and for ever'.
          >
          > (I seem to be mentioning a 'way' here, which also seems to be out of
          > fashion, but I will dare to continue with this.)
          > If we can call this a practice, between the so called purifying
          > practices for a 'mind to be ready for enlightenment' or to 'deserve
          > the Grace', as some seekers use to place, this would be an effective
          > one. Ramana Maharshi said about self enquiry that it was the
          practice
          > and the goal. But then again, everybody wants something better than
          > what they have (are) now, so there is always something missing,
          grace
          > is missing, the right moment has not come yet, and so on.
          > The purification that so many practices called 'spiritual' seek, is
          > in reality, as I have understood, the cutting of the road we are
          used
          > to follow, this means, to make a very strong STOP in the current of
          > thoughts that tend to arise, and to pay attention to that or this,
          > which is as if from no where, as if from nothing, that from where
          > this same attention arise and disappears. Not being attention
          > directed to any other thought in this instant, attention disappears
          > in its own source. (Well, at least I am trying to explain how I
          think
          > it may happen, though it may not happen this way) All there is,
          then,
          > is what always is in this very instant from ever and for ever. Any
          > other instant (before or after) is just another thought happening in
          > this instant.
          >
          > These are my ideas about the 'way'. But trully, trully, what I am
          > sure is that there is no way, only what happens in this instant
          which
          > (for me) could be expressed as 'existence from ever and for ever'.
          > So, a way to get where? Nowhere, only the possible recognition of
          the
          > nature of this ever present reality is what may happen in this
          instant.
          >
          >
          > Maria Luisa
          >
          Dear Maria Luisa,
          It is said that Realization of "IT" happens
          only by Grace. But there seems to be preceeding
          events that prepare one for "THIS". Like when
          soil is cleared of weeds and made ready for
          the seed to be able to grow and come into full
          bloom. I (whoever that is:-)) think that this
          post is just such an enrichment of our inner
          soil. And most certainly a Grace itself. Thanks!
          Peace and blessings,
          Bob






          Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

        • Maria Luisa Cano
          ... Thank you, and Yes Jeff, all of this intent many do is so interesting, and what seems more amazing to me, is that this no-thing is the most intrinsically
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 5 8:44 PM
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            El 05/04/2006, a las 8:53, Jeff Belyea escribió:

            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Maria Luisa"
            > <mlcanow@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > In my view, all the practices can be reduced to one single
            > practice.
            > > At the end, all of them lead to it, if so. Purifications, letting
            > > go´s, observation, discrimination, repetitions, being still,
            > intents of
            > > mindfullness, meditation, being in the now, focussing, and
            > whatever,
            > > can be reduced into simple self enquiry, which does not need of
            > much
            > > training. It is one step practice. If we can call it so. In any
            > case,
            > > there is no guarantee of it 'functioning', for the needed
            > > concetration for this depends on how able one is to be still, let
            > go,
            > > observe, discriminate, concentrate..........:-) or just how tired,
            > > exhausted, one is of being the one, one is supposed to be. But
            > let´s
            > > see.
            > >
            > > Thoughts are impermanent for they arise and disappear. The first
            > or
            > > most recurrent thought tends to be the thought 'I'. To follow the
            > > trade of this thought until reaching the source from where it takes
            > > rise would make evident that this thought appears as if from
            > nothing,
            > > to then disappear into the same place.
            > > The biggest cloud in this respect is that we believe that thoughts
            > > occur to us. MY thoughts, taking this thinker as "I", which in
            > > reality is the root thought. "I" is a thought. First premise, yes,
            > > but nobody is ever convinced of this, so that is why it is
            > suggested
            > > to investigate the 'place' from where this "I", as a thought,
            > > appears. And that´s all that can be done. Only when there is the
            > > eagerness to do this investigation, I mean, when one is really
            > tired
            > > of being this "I", (of the seeking I) is when self enquiry is in
            > > truth done.
            > >
            > > Realization of the reality of what we are is so simple, so near, so
            > > obvious and immediate, but at the same time, we are so used
            > (immersed
            > > in the tendency) to follow the thoughts and their continuity which
            > > generates stories, that it seems rare and difficult to recognize
            > that
            > > This, (which seems as if no-where, no-place, as if nothing, from
            > > which the thought 'I' or any other thought arises), Is what we are.
            > > Even to mention this would make a lot of people run away, for
            > almost
            > > nobody wants to buy this scary proposition.
            > > Now, following the thread
            > > (of thoughts :-))
            > > being this a tendency (to follow the thoughts), the practice of
            > self
            > > enquiry (to follow the trade of the thought 'I') is a direct and
            > > efficient way to cut such tendency from its root. Which, as well
            > as I
            > > can try to express, does not mean that no more thoughts will ever
            > > appear, but that their appearances will be known or recognized as
            > > what they are: just appearances in that (which I really am) , this
            > no
            > > name something or nothing which some call present awareness, others
            > > name it nothingness and some others call it consciousness or void
            > (a
            > > non fashionable way would be God) and the way I use to express it
            > is
            > > 'existence from ever and for ever'.
            > >
            > > (I seem to be mentioning a 'way' here, which also seems to be out
            > of
            > > fashion, but I will dare to continue with this.)
            > > If we can call this a practice, between the so called purifying
            > > practices for a 'mind to be ready for enlightenment' or to 'deserve
            > > the Grace', as some seekers use to place, this would be an
            > effective
            > > one. Ramana Maharshi said about self enquiry that it was the
            > practice
            > > and the goal. But then again, everybody wants something better than
            > > what they have (are) now, so there is always something missing,
            > grace
            > > is missing, the right moment has not come yet, and so on.
            > > The purification that so many practices called 'spiritual' seek, is
            > > in reality, as I have understood, the cutting of the road we are
            > used
            > > to follow, this means, to make a very strong STOP in the current of
            > > thoughts that tend to arise, and to pay attention to that or this,
            > > which is as if from no where, as if from nothing, that from where
            > > this same attention arise and disappears. Not being attention
            > > directed to any other thought in this instant, attention disappears
            > > in its own source. (Well, at least I am trying to explain how I
            > think
            > > it may happen, though it may not happen this way) All there is,
            > then,
            > > is what always is in this very instant from ever and for ever. Any
            > > other instant (before or after) is just another thought happening
            > in
            > > this instant.
            > >
            > > These are my ideas about the 'way'. But trully, trully, what I am
            > > sure is that there is no way, only what happens in this instant
            > which
            > > (for me) could be expressed as 'existence from ever and for ever'.
            > > So, a way to get where? Nowhere, only the possible recognition of
            > the
            > > nature of this ever present reality is what may happen in this
            > instant.
            > >
            > >
            > > Maria Luisa
            > >
            >
            > Beautifully expressed, Maria Luisa.
            > It is so interesting that we can write
            > or speak so many words about the one
            > "Thing"("No-thing") that cannot be put
            > into words, and that to talk or write
            > about "It" is always fresh and new.
            >
            > Jeff
            >
            >

            Thank you, and Yes Jeff, all of this intent many do is so interesting,
            and what seems more amazing to me, is that this no-thing is the most
            intrinsically inmanent intimacy of my own and true self (pure
            subjectivity). Strange, isn´t it? Being a non- being. To be what I am
            not, hmmmmm.

            So amazing, that what it brings about is no other than reverence and
            admiration, such an incognito I am...

            Maybe I will write about what this use of the words 'I' and 'me'
            really means to 'me'.

            I see you are not posting often, but whenever you do, it is as
            wonderful as always. But am also admired of your strength and
            insistence in creating ways for communicating 'this' wich cannot be
            communicated. My best wishes to your always borning and developing
            enterprises. Get fun and enjoy, what else can be 'obtained' from all
            this?

            Much love,
            Maria Luisa
          • Maria Luisa Cano
            ... Thanks to you Bob, The real joy of all this writing about what is becoming clear is the resonance that is found within others, when it happens. All
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 5 8:55 PM
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              El 05/04/2006, a las 8:54, medit8ionsociety escribió:

              > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Maria Luisa"
              > <mlcanow@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > In my view, all the practices can be reduced to one single practice.
              > > At the end, all of them lead to it, if so. Purifications, letting
              > > go´s, observation, discrimination, repetitions, being still,
              > intents of
              > > mindfullness, meditation, being in the now, focussing, and whatever,
              > > can be reduced into simple self enquiry, which does not need of much
              > > training. It is one step practice. If we can call it so. In any
              > case,
              > > there is no guarantee of it 'functioning', for the needed
              > > concetration for this depends on how able one is to be still, let
              > go,
              > > observe, discriminate, concentrate..........:-) or just how tired,
              > > exhausted, one is of being the one, one is supposed to be. But let´s
              > > see.
              > >
              > > Thoughts are impermanent for they arise and disappear. The first or
              > > most recurrent thought tends to be the thought 'I'. To follow the
              > > trade of this thought until reaching the source from where it takes
              > > rise would make evident that this thought appears as if from
              > nothing,
              > > to then disappear into the same place.
              > > The biggest cloud in this respect is that we believe that thoughts
              > > occur to us. MY thoughts, taking this thinker as "I", which in
              > > reality is the root thought. "I" is a thought. First premise, yes,
              > > but nobody is ever convinced of this, so that is why it is suggested
              > > to investigate the 'place' from where this "I", as a thought,
              > > appears. And that´s all that can be done. Only when there is the
              > > eagerness to do this investigation, I mean, when one is really tired
              > > of being this "I", (of the seeking I) is when self enquiry is in
              > > truth done.
              > >
              > > Realization of the reality of what we are is so simple, so near, so
              > > obvious and immediate, but at the same time, we are so used
              > (immersed
              > > in the tendency) to follow the thoughts and their continuity which
              > > generates stories, that it seems rare and difficult to recognize
              > that
              > > This, (which seems as if no-where, no-place, as if nothing, from
              > > which the thought 'I' or any other thought arises), Is what we are.
              > > Even to mention this would make a lot of people run away, for almost
              > > nobody wants to buy this scary proposition.
              > > Now, following the thread
              > > (of thoughts :-))
              > > being this a tendency (to follow the thoughts), the practice of self
              > > enquiry (to follow the trade of the thought 'I') is a direct and
              > > efficient way to cut such tendency from its root. Which, as well as
              > I
              > > can try to express, does not mean that no more thoughts will ever
              > > appear, but that their appearances will be known or recognized as
              > > what they are: just appearances in that (which I really am) , this
              > no
              > > name something or nothing which some call present awareness, others
              > > name it nothingness and some others call it consciousness or void (a
              > > non fashionable way would be God) and the way I use to express it
              > is
              > > 'existence from ever and for ever'.
              > >
              > > (I seem to be mentioning a 'way' here, which also seems to be out of
              > > fashion, but I will dare to continue with this.)
              > > If we can call this a practice, between the so called purifying
              > > practices for a 'mind to be ready for enlightenment' or to 'deserve
              > > the Grace', as some seekers use to place, this would be an effective
              > > one. Ramana Maharshi said about self enquiry that it was the
              > practice
              > > and the goal. But then again, everybody wants something better than
              > > what they have (are) now, so there is always something missing,
              > grace
              > > is missing, the right moment has not come yet, and so on.
              > > The purification that so many practices called 'spiritual' seek, is
              > > in reality, as I have understood, the cutting of the road we are
              > used
              > > to follow, this means, to make a very strong STOP in the current of
              > > thoughts that tend to arise, and to pay attention to that or this,
              > > which is as if from no where, as if from nothing, that from where
              > > this same attention arise and disappears. Not being attention
              > > directed to any other thought in this instant, attention disappears
              > > in its own source. (Well, at least I am trying to explain how I
              > think
              > > it may happen, though it may not happen this way) All there is,
              > then,
              > > is what always is in this very instant from ever and for ever. Any
              > > other instant (before or after) is just another thought happening in
              > > this instant.
              > >
              > > These are my ideas about the 'way'. But trully, trully, what I am
              > > sure is that there is no way, only what happens in this instant
              > which
              > > (for me) could be expressed as 'existence from ever and for ever'.
              > > So, a way to get where? Nowhere, only the possible recognition of
              > the
              > > nature of this ever present reality is what may happen in this
              > instant.
              > >
              > >
              > > Maria Luisa
              > >
              > Dear Maria Luisa,
              > It is said that Realization of "IT" happens
              > only by Grace. But there seems to be preceeding
              > events that prepare one for "THIS". Like when
              > soil is cleared of weeds and made ready for
              > the seed to be able to grow and come into full
              > bloom. I (whoever that is:-)) think that this
              > post is just such an enrichment of our inner
              > soil. And most certainly a Grace itself. Thanks!
              > Peace and blessings,
              > Bob
              >

              Thanks to you Bob,
              The real joy of all this 'writing about what is becoming clear' is
              the resonance that is found within others, when it happens. All this
              is done, just for the joy of it, no other reason, I suppose (because
              reason is something that has nothing to do with all this we are
              trying to understand, isn´t it?) And, not trying to be repetitive or
              boring, but reality is that resonance (for me) is the manifestation
              of the indivisible unity of existence .......... joyfully.

              Love and peace,
              Maria Luisa
            • Maria Luisa Cano
              Dear Delia, yes, time is a result of the process of thought, not the unbreakable base we suppose it is. Not the guillotine (I don´t know if this word exists
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 5 9:33 PM
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                Dear Delia,
                yes, time is a result of the process of thought, not the unbreakable base we suppose it is. Not the guillotine (I don´t know if this word exists in english, you know, that sword that cuts heads falling from the top?) we think it is. Because of the wrong notion of time, great suffering happens. Because we think there is this "I" that has to do something with its given time.
                This is how I understannd time:
                Time is the correlation of one memory to another memory. So "in memories we are lost"... It is the comparation of one object that has moved from one place in space to another place in space,  the change of attention from this place to the other place. It is all happening in the presence of awareness. Time is a tool needed for the creation of a continuity in thought, to give it significance and meaning, for the stories to be lived as if real. For the personage to perform its part on the play. All of it, a motion picture projected in the screen of awareness. 

                Thoughts appear and disappear, awareness is eternally and permanently present giving support to them. Time is what is perceived as the intervals between the changes in attention. But this perception happens in the permanent presence of awareness. So, where and what is time really? No mind, any answer will be so complicated...

                About the kingdom of heaven with which we have all dreamed of, I am very clear that IT does not exist. There is nothing out there (all of which is impermanent),- an IT-  different from what my real nature is, that will give 'me' permanent peace and happiness. There is no magnificent and perfect experience inside (inner) either, that will last for ever giving 'me' permanent peace and solace and perfect harmony and happiness. It is only the discovery that this suffering 'me' we think we are does not exist as a separate entity but as an appearance in awareness, the clue to access the kingdom of heaven (peace and happiness as the presence on which all the pairs of opposites can appear and disappear) , independently of any arisings or movements of thoughts or identifications. I perceive that you are clear on this too, but thought that it was important to say it as simple as it is.

                Love,
                Maria Luisa




                El 05/04/2006, a las 9:18, Delia Tofolean escribió:

                Dear Maria Luisa,
                 
                you began to find out what the notion of TIME really means. So many theories, so many practices so many holly books...and only one life, one hour, one minute.
                 
                One of the truth is that we all try to find "the Kingdom of Heaven" while we are living in this world. And meditation give us a precious solace - all who are called and found faithful, whatever their destiny will find more about this precious knowledge.
                 
                Alone to Alone but never Alone...
                 
                Serenity and harmony
                 
                Delia


                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Maria Luisa"
                <mlcanow@...> wrote:
                >
                > In my view, all the practices can be reduced to one single practice.
                > At the end, all of them lead to it, if so. Purifications, letting
                > go?s, observation, discrimination, repetitions, being still,
                intents of
                > mindfullness, meditation, being in the now, focussing, and whatever,
                > can be reduced into simple self enquiry, which does not need of much
                > training. It is one step practice. If we can call it so. In any
                case,
                > there is no guarantee of it 'functioning', for the needed
                > concetration for this depends on how able one is to be still, let
                go,
                > observe, discriminate, concentrate..........:-) or just how tired,
                > exhausted, one is of being the one, one is supposed to be. But let?s
                > see.
                >
                > Thoughts are impermanent for they arise and disappear.  The first or
                > most recurrent thought tends to be the thought 'I'. To follow the
                > trade of this thought until reaching the source from where it takes
                > rise would make evident that this thought appears as if from
                nothing,
                > to then disappear into the same place.
                > The biggest cloud in this respect is that we believe that thoughts
                > occur to us. MY thoughts, taking this thinker as "I", which in
                > reality is the root thought. "I" is a thought. First premise, yes,
                > but nobody is ever convinced of this, so that is why it is suggested
                > to investigate the 'place' from where this "I", as a thought,
                > appears. And that?s all that can be done. Only when there is the
                > eagerness to do this investigation, I mean, when one is really tired
                > of being this "I", (of the seeking I) is when self enquiry is in
                > truth done.
                >
                > Realization of the reality of what we are is so simple, so near, so
                > obvious and immediate, but at the same time, we are so used
                (immersed
                > in the tendency) to follow the thoughts and their continuity which
                > generates stories, that it seems rare and difficult to recognize
                that
                > This, (which seems as if no-where, no-place, as if nothing, from
                > which the thought 'I' or any other thought arises), Is what we are.
                > Even to mention this would make a lot of people run away, for almost
                > nobody wants to buy this scary proposition.
                > Now, following the thread
                > (of thoughts :-))
                > being this a tendency (to follow the thoughts), the practice of self
                > enquiry (to follow the trade of the thought 'I') is a direct and
                > efficient way to cut such tendency from its root. Which, as well as
                I
                > can try to express, does not mean that no more thoughts will ever
                > appear, but that their appearances will be known or recognized as
                > what they are: just appearances in that (which I really am) , this
                no
                > name something or nothing which some call present awareness, others
                > name it nothingness and some others call it consciousness or void (a
                > non fashionable way would be God)  and the way I use to express it
                is
                > 'existence from ever and for ever'.
                >
                > (I seem to be mentioning a 'way' here, which also seems to be out of
                > fashion, but I will dare to continue with this.)
                > If we can call this a practice, between the so called purifying
                > practices for a 'mind to be ready for enlightenment' or to 'deserve
                > the Grace', as some seekers use to place, this would be an effective
                > one. Ramana Maharshi said about self enquiry that it was the
                practice
                > and the goal. But then again, everybody wants something better than
                > what they have (are) now, so there is always something missing,
                grace
                > is missing, the right moment has not come yet, and so on.
                > The purification that so many practices called 'spiritual' seek, is
                > in reality, as I have understood, the cutting of the road we are
                used
                > to follow, this means, to make a very strong STOP in the current of
                > thoughts that tend to arise, and to pay attention to that or this,
                > which is as if from no where, as if from nothing, that from where
                > this same attention arise and disappears. Not being attention
                > directed to any other thought in this instant, attention disappears
                > in its own source. (Well, at least I am trying to explain how I
                think
                > it may happen, though it may not happen this way) All there is,
                then,
                > is what always is in this very instant from ever and for ever. Any
                > other instant (before or after) is just another thought happening in
                > this instant.
                >
                > These are my ideas about the 'way'. But trully, trully, what I am
                > sure is that there is no way, only what happens in this instant
                which
                > (for me) could be expressed as 'existence from ever and for ever'.
                > So, a way to get where? Nowhere, only the possible recognition of
                the
                > nature of this ever present reality is what may happen in this
                instant.
                >
                >
                > Maria Luisa
                >
                Dear Maria Luisa,
                It is said that Realization of "IT" happens
                only by Grace. But there seems to be preceeding
                events that prepare one for "THIS". Like when
                soil is cleared of weeds and made ready for
                the seed to be able to grow and come into full
                bloom. I (whoever that is:-)) think that this
                post is just such an enrichment of our inner
                soil. And most certainly a Grace itself. Thanks!
                Peace and blessings,
                Bob







                Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.


                YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS





              • Delia Tofolean
                Dear Maria Luisa, thank you for your very interesting mail. What time is concerned I think one of the great goals of meditation is to understand - and try to
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 6 12:51 PM
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                  Dear Maria Luisa,
                   
                  thank you for your very interesting mail.
                  What time is concerned I think one of the great goals of meditation is to understand - and try to neutralize the guillotine -effect of time - I loved this comparison and I found it would be a very nice piece of a koan.
                  Time is a Key to Understanding - Key from the Emerald Tablets of Thot (1)and Understanding from Kabbalah (2) :
                   
                  1)
                   Binah (Primary meaning: Understanding. Also known as: Intellect, Teshuvah (Repentance), Reason, palace, temple, womb, upper Mother, Jerusalem above, freedom, Jubilee, "YHWH pronounced as ELOHIM")
                  Binah, is the "Mother" aspect and associated with the dimension of time (the future) and the first "H" in Y-H-V-H.
                   
                  2)
                  And I questioned the Master, saying: ?Was this thought eternal?? And answered me the Dweller, saying: ?In the beginning, there was eternal thought, and for thought to be eternal, time must exist. So into the all-pervading thought grew the Law of Time. Aye, time which exists through all space, floating in a smooth, rhythmic movement that is eternally in a state of fixation. Time changes not, but all things change in time. For time is the force that holds events separate, each in its proper place. Time is not in motion, but ye move through time as your consciousness moves from one event to another. Aye, by time ye exist, all in all, an eternal One existence. Know ye that even though in time ye are separate, yet still are One in all times existent.? Ceased then the voice of the Dweller, and departed I to ponder on time. For knew I that in these words lay wisdom and a way to explore the mysteries of time.
                   
                  Never mind, Zen, Kabbalah, Thoth, a lot of Christian Saints said the same thing : Time is Light.
                   
                  When I try to recollect something I try to remember first how was the light at that specific moment. Meditation is very time consuming - time is the money one have to pay for the light.
                   
                  I wish you all the time you need to enjoy the light of every moment of your life
                   
                  Delia
                   


                  Maria Luisa Cano <mlcanow@...> wrote:
                  Dear Delia,
                  yes, time is a result of the process of thought, not the unbreakable base we suppose it is. Not the guillotine (I don?t know if this word exists in english, you know, that sword that cuts heads falling from the top?) we think it is. Because of the wrong notion of time, great suffering happens. Because we think there is this "I" that has to do something with its given time.
                  This is how I understannd time:
                  Time is the correlation of one memory to another memory. So "in memories we are lost"... It is the comparation of one object that has moved from one place in space to another place in space,? the change of attention from this place to the other place. It is all happening in the presence of awareness. Time is a tool needed for the creation of a continuity in thought, to give it significance and meaning, for the stories to be lived as if real. For the personage to perform its part on the play. All of it, a motion picture projected in the screen of awareness.?

                  Thoughts appear and disappear, awareness is eternally and permanently present giving support to them. Time is what is perceived as the intervals between the changes in attention. But this perception happens in the permanent presence of awareness. So, where and what is time really? No mind, any answer will be so complicated...

                  About the kingdom of heaven with which we have all dreamed of, I am very clear that IT does not exist. There is nothing out there (all of which is impermanent),- an IT-? different from what my real nature is, that will give 'me' permanent peace and happiness. There is no magnificent and perfect experience inside (inner) either, that will last for ever giving 'me' permanent peace and solace and perfect harmony and happiness. It is only the discovery that this suffering 'me' we think we are does not exist as a separate entity but as an appearance in awareness, the clue to access the kingdom of heaven (peace and happiness as the presence on which all the pairs of opposites can appear and disappear) , independently of any arisings or movements of thoughts or identifications. I perceive that you are clear on this too, but thought that it was important to say it as simple as it is.

                  Love,
                  Maria Luisa




                  El 05/04/2006, a las 9:18, Delia Tofolean escribi󺦬t;/DIV>
                  Dear Maria Luisa,
                  ?
                  you began to find out what the notion of TIME really means. So many theories, so many practices so many holly books...and only one life, one hour, one minute.
                  ?
                  One of the truth is that we all try to find "the Kingdom of Heaven" while we are living in this world. And meditation give us a precious solace - all who are called and found faithful, whatever their destiny will find more about this precious knowledge.
                  ?
                  Alone to Alone but never Alone...
                  ?
                  Serenity and harmony
                  ?
                  Delia


                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Maria Luisa"
                  <mlcanow@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > In my view, all the practices can be reduced to one single practice.
                  > At the end, all of them lead to it, if so. Purifications, letting
                  > go?s, observation, discrimination, repetitions, being still,
                  intents of
                  > mindfullness, meditation, being in the now, focussing, and whatever,
                  > can be reduced into simple self enquiry, which does not need of much
                  > training. It is one step practice. If we can call it so. In any
                  case,
                  > there is no guarantee of it 'functioning', for the needed
                  > concetration for this depends on how able one is to be still, let
                  go,
                  > observe, discriminate, concentrate..........:-) or just how tired,
                  > exhausted, one is of being the one, one is supposed to be. But let?s
                  > see.
                  >
                  > Thoughts are impermanent for they arise and disappear.? The first or
                  > most recurrent thought tends to be the thought 'I'. To follow the
                  > trade of this thought until reaching the source from where it takes
                  > rise would make evident that this thought appears as if from
                  nothing,
                  > to then disappear into the same place.
                  > The biggest cloud in this respect is that we believe that thoughts
                  > occur to us. MY thoughts, taking this thinker as "I", which in
                  > reality is the root thought. "I" is a thought. First premise, yes,
                  > but nobody is ever convinced of this, so that is why it is suggested
                  > to investigate the 'place' from where this "I", as a thought,
                  > appears. And that?s all that can be done. Only when there is the
                  > eagerness to do this investigation, I mean, when one is really tired
                  > of being this "I", (of the seeking I) is when self enquiry is in
                  > truth done.
                  >
                  > Realization of the reality of what we are is so simple, so near, so
                  > obvious and immediate, but at the same time, we are so used
                  (immersed
                  > in the tendency) to follow the thoughts and their continuity which
                  > generates stories, that it seems rare and difficult to recognize
                  that
                  > This, (which seems as if no-where, no-place, as if nothing, from
                  > which the thought 'I' or any other thought arises), Is what we are.
                  > Even to mention this would make a lot of people run away, for almost
                  > nobody wants to buy this scary proposition.
                  > Now, following the thread
                  > (of thoughts :-))
                  > being this a tendency (to follow the thoughts), the practice of self
                  > enquiry (to follow the trade of the thought 'I') is a direct and
                  > efficient way to cut such tendency from its root. Which, as well as
                  I
                  > can try to express, does not mean that no more thoughts will ever
                  > appear, but that their appearances will be known or recognized as
                  > what they are: just appearances in that (which I really am) , this
                  no
                  > name something or nothing which some call present awareness, others
                  > name it nothingness and some others call it consciousness or void (a
                  > non fashionable way would be God)? and the way I use to express it
                  is
                  > 'existence from ever and for ever'.
                  >
                  > (I seem to be mentioning a 'way' here, which also seems to be out of
                  > fashion, but I will dare to continue with this.)
                  > If we can call this a practice, between the so called purifying
                  > practices for a 'mind to be ready for enlightenment' or to 'deserve
                  > the Grace', as some seekers use to place, this would be an effective
                  > one. Ramana Maharshi said about self enquiry that it was the
                  practice
                  > and the goal. But then again, everybody wants something better than
                  > what they have (are) now, so there is always something missing,
                  grace
                  > is missing, the right moment has not come yet, and so on.
                  > The purification that so many practices called 'spiritual' seek, is
                  > in reality, as I have understood, the cutting of the road we are
                  used
                  > to follow, this means, to make a very strong STOP in the current of
                  > thoughts that tend to arise, and to pay attention to that or this,
                  > which is as if from no where, as if from nothing, that from where
                  > this same attention arise and disappears. Not being attention
                  > directed to any other thought in this instant, attention disappears
                  > in its own source. (Well, at least I am trying to explain how I
                  think
                  > it may happen, though it may not happen this way) All there is,
                  then,
                  > is what always is in this very instant from ever and for ever. Any
                  > other instant (before or after) is just another thought happening in
                  > this instant.
                  >
                  > These are my ideas about the 'way'. But trully, trully, what I am
                  > sure is that there is no way, only what happens in this instant
                  which
                  > (for me) could be expressed as 'existence from ever and for ever'.
                  > So, a way to get where? Nowhere, only the possible recognition of
                  the
                  > nature of this ever present reality is what may happen in this
                  instant.
                  >
                  >
                  > Maria Luisa
                  >
                  Dear Maria Luisa,
                  It is said that Realization of "IT" happens
                  only by Grace. But there seems to be preceeding
                  events that prepare one for "THIS". Like when
                  soil is cleared of weeds and made ready for
                  the seed to be able to grow and come into full
                  bloom. I (whoever that is:-)) think that this
                  post is just such an enrichment of our inner
                  soil. And most certainly a Grace itself. Thanks!
                  Peace and blessings,
                  Bob







                  Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.


                  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS







                  New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

                • Maria Luisa Cano
                  Dear Delia, Wow! Never have read these concepts before. Thankyou. Very beautiful. And yes, that changeless eternal time is recognized as light...so beautiful
                  Message 8 of 13 , Apr 6 9:40 PM
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                    Dear Delia,
                    Wow! Never have read these concepts before. Thankyou. Very beautiful. 
                    And yes, that changeless eternal time is recognized as light...so beautiful really.

                    Maria Luisa

                    El 06/04/2006, a las 15:51, Delia Tofolean escribió:

                    Dear Maria Luisa,
                     
                    thank you for your very interesting mail.
                    What time is concerned I think one of the great goals of meditation is to understand - and try to neutralize the guillotine -effect of time - I loved this comparison and I found it would be a very nice piece of a koan.
                    Time is a Key to Understanding - Key from the Emerald Tablets of Thot (1)and Understanding from Kabbalah (2) :
                     
                    1)
                     Binah (Primary meaning: Understanding. Also known as: Intellect, Teshuvah (Repentance), Reason, palace, temple, womb, upper Mother, Jerusalem above, freedom, Jubilee, "YHWH pronounced as ELOHIM")
                    Binah, is the "Mother" aspect and associated with the dimension of time (the future) and the first "H" in Y-H-V-H.
                     
                    2)
                    And I questioned the Master, saying: ?Was this thought eternal?? And answered me the Dweller, saying: ?In the beginning, there was eternal thought, and for thought to be eternal, time must exist. So into the all-pervading thought grew the Law of Time. Aye, time which exists through all space, floating in a smooth, rhythmic movement that is eternally in a state of fixation. Time changes not, but all things change in time. For time is the force that holds events separate, each in its proper place. Time is not in motion, but ye move through time as your consciousness moves from one event to another. Aye, by time ye exist, all in all, an eternal One existence. Know ye that even though in time ye are separate, yet still are One in all times existent.? Ceased then the voice of the Dweller, and departed I to ponder on time. For knew I that in these words lay wisdom and a way to explore the mysteries of time.
                     
                    Never mind, Zen, Kabbalah, Thoth, a lot of Christian Saints said the same thing : Time is Light.
                     
                    When I try to recollect something I try to remember first how was the light at that specific moment. Meditation is very time consuming - time is the money one have to pay for the light.
                     
                    I wish you all the time you need to enjoy the light of every moment of your life
                     
                    Delia
                     
                     
                  • Sandeep
                    *Primordial to Light is Sound. Primordial un-struck Sound, .........which is also an expressing. Expressing which thus is experiencing. The absence of the
                    Message 9 of 13 , Apr 6 9:56 PM
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                      Primordial to Light is Sound.

                      Primordial un-struck Sound, .........which is also an expressing.

                      Expressing which thus is experiencing.

                      The absence of the presence of expressing and the absence of the
                      absence of the presence of expressing......



                      Maria Luisa Cano wrote:
                      Dear Delia,
                      Wow! Never have read these concepts before. Thankyou. Very beautiful. 
                      And yes, that changeless eternal time is recognized as light...so beautiful really.

                      Maria Luisa

                      El 06/04/2006, a las 15:51, Delia Tofolean escribió:

                      Dear Maria Luisa,
                       
                      thank you for your very interesting mail.
                      What time is concerned I think one of the great goals of meditation is to understand - and try to neutralize the guillotine -effect of time - I loved this comparison and I found it would be a very nice piece of a koan.
                      Time is a Key to Understanding - Key from the Emerald Tablets of Thot (1)and Understanding from Kabbalah (2) :
                       
                      1)
                       Binah (Primary meaning: Understanding. Also known as: Intellect, Teshuvah (Repentance), Reason, palace, temple, womb, upper Mother, Jerusalem above, freedom, Jubilee, "YHWH pronounced as ELOHIM")
                      Binah, is the "Mother" aspect and associated with the dimension of time (the future) and the first "H" in Y-H-V-H.
                       
                      2)
                      And I questioned the Master, saying: ?Was this thought eternal?? And answered me the Dweller, saying: ?In the beginning, there was eternal thought, and for thought to be eternal, time must exist. So into the all-pervading thought grew the Law of Time. Aye, time which exists through all space, floating in a smooth, rhythmic movement that is eternally in a state of fixation. Time changes not, but all things change in time. For time is the force that holds events separate, each in its proper place. Time is not in motion, but ye move through time as your consciousness moves from one event to another. Aye, by time ye exist, all in all, an eternal One existence. Know ye that even though in time ye are separate, yet still are One in all times existent.? Ceased then the voice of the Dweller, and departed I to ponder on time. For knew I that in these words lay wisdom and a way to explore the mysteries of time.
                       
                      Never mind, Zen, Kabbalah, Thoth, a lot of Christian Saints said the same thing : Time is Light.
                       
                      When I try to recollect something I try to remember first how was the light at that specific moment. Meditation is very time consuming - time is the money one have to pay for the light.
                       
                      I wish you all the time you need to enjoy the light of every moment of your life
                       
                      Delia
                       
                       
                    • Maria Luisa Cano
                      Yes, and the absence................................................................. ..................... always present ... Yes, and the
                      Message 10 of 13 , Apr 6 10:01 PM
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                        Yes, and the absence......................................................................................
                                                                                       always present

                        El 07/04/2006, a las 0:56, Sandeep escribió:

                        Primordial to Light is Sound.

                        Primordial un-struck Sound, .........which is also an expressing.

                        Expressing which thus is experiencing.

                        The absence of the presence of expressing and the absence of the
                        absence of the presence of expressing......



                        Maria Luisa Cano wrote:
                        Dear Delia,
                        Wow! Never have read these concepts before. Thankyou. Very beautiful. 
                        And yes, that changeless eternal time is recognized as light...so beautiful really.

                        Maria Luisa

                        El 06/04/2006, a las 15:51, Delia Tofolean escribió:

                        Dear Maria Luisa,
                         
                        thank you for your very interesting mail.
                        What time is concerned I think one of the great goals of meditation is to understand - and try to neutralize the guillotine -effect of time - I loved this comparison and I found it would be a very nice piece of a koan.
                        Time is a Key to Understanding - Key from the Emerald Tablets of Thot (1)and Understanding from Kabbalah (2) :
                         
                        1)
                         Binah (Primary meaning: Understanding. Also known as: Intellect, Teshuvah (Repentance), Reason, palace, temple, womb, upper Mother, Jerusalem above, freedom, Jubilee, "YHWH pronounced as ELOHIM")
                        Binah, is the "Mother" aspect and associated with the dimension of time (the future) and the first "H" in Y-H-V-H.
                         
                        2)
                        And I questioned the Master, saying: ?Was this thought eternal?? And answered me the Dweller, saying: ?In the beginning, there was eternal thought, and for thought to be eternal, time must exist. So into the all-pervading thought grew the Law of Time. Aye, time which exists through all space, floating in a smooth, rhythmic movement that is eternally in a state of fixation. Time changes not, but all things change in time. For time is the force that holds events separate, each in its proper place. Time is not in motion, but ye move through time as your consciousness moves from one event to another. Aye, by time ye exist, all in all, an eternal One existence. Know ye that even though in time ye are separate, yet still are One in all times existent.? Ceased then the voice of the Dweller, and departed I to ponder on time. For knew I that in these words lay wisdom and a way to explore the mysteries of time.
                         
                        Never mind, Zen, Kabbalah, Thoth, a lot of Christian Saints said the same thing : Time is Light.
                         
                        When I try to recollect something I try to remember first how was the light at that specific moment. Meditation is very time consuming - time is the money one have to pay for the light.
                         
                        I wish you all the time you need to enjoy the light of every moment of your life
                         
                        Delia
                         
                         


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                      • Sandeep
                        *When there is Jar placed on the ground, we have the Ground with the presence of the Jar. When the Jar is removed, we have the Ground with the absence of the
                        Message 11 of 13 , Apr 6 10:23 PM
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                          When there is Jar placed on  the ground,
                          we have the Ground with the presence of the Jar.

                          When the Jar is removed,
                          we have the Ground with the absence of the Jar


                          When both the qualifying conditions are no more........


                          The absence of the sense of presence........ AND ............the absence of the
                          absence of the sense of presence.

                          For both "absence" and "presence" are concepts of existential reality............ only within a notional gestalt of duality.






                          Maria Luisa Cano wrote:
                          Yes, and the absence......................................................................................
                                                                                         always present




                        • Delia Tofolean
                          Primordial to Light and Sound is the Cosmic Vibration. Cosmic Vibration is Spiritualization. But Spiritualization is useless without Moralization. Moralization
                          Message 12 of 13 , Apr 7 3:08 PM
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                            Primordial to Light and Sound is the Cosmic Vibration.
                             
                            Cosmic Vibration is Spiritualization.
                             
                            But Spiritualization is useless without Moralization.
                             
                            Moralization is too vaste a subject: I will quote Gandhiji - moralization is the restoration of the moral vows of truth and non-violence.
                             
                            Too difficult ... let go back to the wonderful world of meditation and let us be
                             
                            Wanderer along the path to heaven
                             
                            Have a nice journey my friends
                             
                            Delia
                             
                            Sandeep <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
                            Primordial to Light is Sound.

                            Primordial un-struck Sound, .........which is also an expressing.

                            Expressing which thus is experiencing.

                            The absence of the presence of expressing and the absence of the
                            absence of the presence of expressing......



                            Maria Luisa Cano wrote:
                            Dear Delia,
                            Wow! Never have read these concepts before. Thankyou. Very beautiful. 
                            And yes, that changeless eternal time is recognized as light...so beautiful really.

                            Maria Luisa

                            El 06/04/2006, a las 15:51, Delia Tofolean escribió:

                            Dear Maria Luisa,
                             
                            thank you for your very interesting mail.
                            What time is concerned I think one of the great goals of meditation is to understand - and try to neutralize the guillotine -effect of time - I loved this comparison and I found it would be a very nice piece of a koan.
                            Time is a Key to Understanding - Key from the Emerald Tablets of Thot (1)and Understanding from Kabbalah (2) :
                             
                            1)
                             Binah (Primary meaning: Understanding. Also known as: Intellect, Teshuvah (Repentance), Reason, palace, temple, womb, upper Mother, Jerusalem above, freedom, Jubilee, "YHWH pronounced as ELOHIM")
                            Binah, is the "Mother" aspect and associated with the dimension of time (the future) and the first "H" in Y-H-V-H.
                             
                            2)
                            And I questioned the Master, saying: ?Was this thought eternal?? And answered me the Dweller, saying: ?In the beginning, there was eternal thought, and for thought to be eternal, time must exist. So into the all-pervading thought grew the Law of Time. Aye, time which exists through all space, floating in a smooth, rhythmic movement that is eternally in a state of fixation. Time changes not, but all things change in time. For time is the force that holds events separate, each in its proper place. Time is not in motion, but ye move through time as your consciousness moves from one event to another. Aye, by time ye exist, all in all, an eternal One existence. Know ye that even though in time ye are separate, yet still are One in all times existent.? Ceased then the voice of the Dweller, and departed I to ponder on time. For knew I that in these words lay wisdom and a way to explore the mysteries of time.
                             
                            Never mind, Zen, Kabbalah, Thoth, a lot of Christian Saints said the same thing : Time is Light.
                             
                            When I try to recollect something I try to remember first how was the light at that specific moment. Meditation is very time consuming - time is the money one have to pay for the light.
                             
                            I wish you all the time you need to enjoy the light of every moment of your life
                             
                            Delia
                             
                             


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