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  • mirela basa
    Hello! ... Dear Bob, You say that you don’t trust anything that comes from the chattering mind… What do you trust then? The soul? Where is the soul? Your
    Message 1 of 2 , Dec 24, 2002
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      Hello!


      > > Hi,
      > > i'm Mirela and i recently joined your group. (i
      > hope
      > > you don't mind!)
      > Welcome!
      > >I have been reading some of your
      > > conversations and i must say that this is the
      > Universe
      > > i want to be part of -- even if it's just my mind
      > who
      > > says that -- i don't know how old these
      > conversations
      > > are, but I have noticed that everyone has (kind
      > of)
      > > the same opinion about THE MIND. who is speaking
      > than,
      > > another mind? What i don't understand is why are
      > the
      > > people looking for answers outside them... I
      > strongly
      > > believe that all the answers are within us and all
      > > that we have to do it's just to be honest with
      > > ourselves and honestly recognise what we are
      > feeling.
      Dear Bob,
      You say that you don�t trust anything that comes from
      the chattering mind� What do you trust then? The soul?
      Where is the soul? Your feelings? Where are your
      feelings? I know that there is a certain zone on our
      brain that is responsable with the feelings� This is
      how we feel the emotions.. if we don�t have a mind
      (brain), we don�t have feelings� my english is so poor
      and i�m sorry i can�t express better what i mean. So,
      we think with the mind, but also feel with the mind.
      Yeah, well, the mind can do a lot of tricky things,
      but if one is honest with himself, the mind will ask
      and do the right things� As long as one knows that his
      true nature, his true being is honest, the mind will
      be right! The mind doesn�t like the pain, it likes
      pleasure! What is wrong with that? Once one has opened
      the door for pleasure, the pain is going to come in
      too. Now, the thing is: are you prepared to accept
      pain along with the pleasure? Are you honest enough to
      see the pain as just pain? No, people are used to not
      like the pain. I�m not saying one should like the
      pain, but to see it just like it is: just a pain that
      will go away soon. There is a zone which is not pain,
      which is not pleasure. It�s just okayness. This is
      what i think the man should be: okay. Not hunting for
      pleasure, not running away from pain. Just okay. I�m
      not speaking about myself here. I�m not okay eather. I
      still don�t like the pain, i still want the pleasure.
      But i long for the true being� I�m looking for that
      state where i shall not ask for more confort and i
      shall not want to achieve anything else besides
      knowledge and wisdom�






      > I can't say you have no right to believe this or to
      > disbelieve that,
      > but I don't trust anything that comes from the
      > chattering mind. It is
      > capable of taking any point in an argument, pro or
      > con, and endorsing
      > it fully, and then in a different moment, taking the
      > opposite view and
      > saying that is correct. The mind is forever chasing
      > after things that
      > may bring pleasure and avoiding things that may be
      > unpleasant. There
      > is an inner awareness that is everpresent and can
      > observe the mind
      > jumping around, the body going through never-ending
      > reactions and the
      > emotions changing at the drop of a smile or sneer.
      > This awareness is
      > the inner Witness that has always been present and
      > is still present as
      > you read these words. This is our connection with
      > our higher intuitive
      > intelligence, that Knows! Our mind is our master and
      > keeping us in
      > illusion. Meditation is a vehicle to let us gain a
      > control (Self
      > control) over the mind and stop its foolish chatter.
      > In the Silence of
      > a stilled mind, the Source of the/all awareness
      > presents itself.
      M: I have heard and red about meditation a lot, but i
      don�t know what it means. I don�t really know what is
      that.. How is one meditating? It is a state? How do I
      get there?



      > > I don't believe that we are the Infinite and i
      > don't
      > > believe that we are God... i believe that the
      > control
      > > is in our head, brain... that the mind is the most
      > > powerful "creature" on the Earth.
      > I agree that the mind is powerful enough to make you
      > think we are
      > separate from the Infinite/God, but I also know that
      > this is just
      > deceptive advertising, much like the cigarette ads
      > of the 50's that
      > said smoking was healthy for you. Both are illusions
      > that cause
      > suffering.
      > >
      > > There's gotta be some divisions of the mind, as
      > the
      > > soul is in the mind too, and it may seem that
      > there's
      > > more than just one (the mind!
      > You could say that an ocean is simply billions of
      > drops of water, and
      > in one perspective, that is right, but that ain't
      > seeing the forrest
      > for the trees.
      > >
      > > Dear Godfrey, which is the comfort zone?
      > The comfort zone was, is, and always will be present
      > right in
      > front/inside of our spiritual noses. As you said
      > >"I strongly believe that all the answers are within
      > us and all
      > > that we have to do it's just to be honest with
      > > ourselves and honestly recognise what we are
      > feeling."

      M: Are you there, Bob? In the confort zone? Does
      everyone know about this zone? If so, than it
      shouldn�t be so much suffering around� It should be a
      lot more Joy.

      > The problem is that the mind can lable, judge,
      > compare, and comment,
      > but it can't be honest or understand (or as the
      > Rasta's much more
      > accuratly say, "Overstand"). BTW, you've been
      > listening to your inner
      > chatterer all your life, right? Well, has it helped
      > you be
      > comfortable?
      M: I have been listening to my mind, but also to my
      consciousness� And i tried as much as i could to not
      hurt the people around me, and to do the right thing.

      > >Where do you start exploring?
      > Some start by asking themselves who is this "I" who
      > needs to explore.
      > Some try to silently Witness their life as it takes
      > place, others do
      > Hatha yoga, good deeds, pray, whatever. But,no
      > kidding, your mind is
      > always kidding, and should never or hardly ever be
      > taken seriously, no
      > matter which method you use. For Me, and hundreds of
      > millions of
      > others, meditation is the best way to gain self
      > control, self
      > knowledge, control over the mind, body, emotions,
      > and so on, to the
      > point that eventually you need make no effort
      > effortlessly, and live
      > happily ever after.
      M: Who am �I�? i think i am my past.. i don�t think i
      have another answer to this question. For anyone
      around me i am some memories and a little drop of
      present. And maybe some hopes for the future� J


      > Peace and blessings,
      > Bob
      > >
      > > Mi-este drag, intr-adevar acela care aduce pe
      vagabond in caminul sau.
      > Eh, what's this about? My poor little mind can't
      > figure it out!
      M: This is a signature that i used to use, and i
      forgot to take it out. It was romanian translation of
      a quote from Krishnamurti, but i can�t fiind it in
      English right now; i�ll send it to you as soon as i
      fiind it.
      >
      > Thank you,
      Mirela
      ------------------------------------------------------



      Dear G,

      Hi,
      > Hi and Namaste -
      >
      > M:> i'm Mirela and i recently joined your group. (i
      > hope
      > > you don't mind!)
      >
      > G: and why would anyone mind? that is the reason
      > for it's
      > existance...
      > M: Well, sometimes, people do mind when new
      unexperienced people come. Especially when the new
      ones don�t really know what is all about.


      > M: I have been reading some of your conversations
      > and i must say
      > that this is the Universe i want to be part of --
      > even if it's just
      > my mind who says that -- i don't know how old these
      > conversations
      > > are, but I have noticed that everyone has (kind
      > of) the same
      > opinion about THE MIND.
      >
      > G: opinions are of a relative nature due to the
      > colorizations of your
      > experience... birds of a feather flock together...
      M: the Truth must be found out, right? A lot of people
      with a lot of opinions.. who is right? When do you
      decide that �this is true?�


      >
      > M: who is speaking than, another mind? What i don't
      > understand is why
      > are the people looking for answers outside them... I
      > strongly
      > > believe that all the answers are within us and all
      > that we have to
      > do it's just to be honest with ourselves and
      > honestly recognise what
      > we are feeling.
      >
      > G: do you think the answers are found in feeling?
      > feeling is the
      > outcome of past experience... and can you Really be
      > honest with
      > yourself when you are driven by past conditionings
      > and mindsets which
      > have come by building one incident upon another? or
      > is that simply
      > the ego self having its way and calling it sight and
      > insight?
      > Feelings as well as mind are transient and changing
      > ....
      M: If both the feelings and the mind are transient and
      changing, what is still? I don�t know where the
      answers are; i would be there if i knew� And i also
      don�t know what do i trust more: thoughts or feelings�
      But, when i feel something that i know (i judge) is
      true, i listen to it. Yeah, this is what we are:
      experience, past� The diference is that if i�ll look
      NOW to myself, i don�t see what i am, but i see what i
      was� i see the changing that has taken place� my
      thoughts, my feelings, my ideas, my everything is
      diferent than yesterday, a month ago or a year ago� It
      is like one thousands and one veils have been taken
      away from my eyes� i sometimes say �How could i be so
      stupid?�. I was or not stupid, but i know that i
      couldn�t see the things how i see it now (not
      necessarly better!)� Sometimes i wish i didn�t have a
      mind, but sometimes i�m so happy that i have it�



      > M: > I don't believe that we are the Infinite and i
      > don't believe
      > that we are God... i believe that the control is in
      > our head,
      > brain... that the mind is the most powerful
      > "creature" on the Earth.
      >
      > G: is the brain the mind? or is it simply a
      > computer and
      > waystation that processes the input of mind into a
      > viable seen
      > affair? you may not *believe* that we are Infinite
      > or God but then
      > again a belief is Not a KNOWN but simply a
      > conjecture and a suspected
      > thing... so if you know that the answers are
      > within then i suggest
      > you go fully Within and not simply go the cursory
      > intellectual
      > surfing of i *believe* for that and a $1 will get
      > you a cup of coffee
      > and no more.... it won't give you peace or
      > wisdom...
      M:Brain, mind, feelings, physical feeling etc are all
      interrelated.. they can�t exist without the other!
      What is it true for you, G? Is it what you think? Is
      it what you see? Is it what you feel? Where do you
      turn when you need help? When you need to check if
      something is true or not (thoughts, feelings,
      whatever..), where do you go? Who do you ask?
      Yourself? Your mind? Your heart?
      (I�m not very good with english and i don�t really
      know what this means : �a $1 will get you a cup of
      coffee and no more....� can you please explain?)



      >
      > M: There's gotta be some divisions of the mind, as
      > the soul is in the
      > mind too, and it may seem that there's more than
      > just one (the mind!)
      > >
      > G: you say it may seem .... so in this statement
      > once again it shows
      > conjecture... you do not Know for sure... so go
      > within and find
      > out...
      M: I meant that there is a superficial mind, too. How
      do you explain that sometimes you make a decision and
      in a few minutes you say it was bad, that you need to
      think more about it� when you know something for the
      first time, there is a �something� that judges it
      right the way. Something that tells you it is either
      good or bad, and than you further proceed�


      > M: > Dear Godfrey, which is the comfort zone? Where
      > do you
      > > start exploring?
      >
      > G: ah now THAT is an intellegent question...
      > start by becoming
      > aware of how transient and fleeting are the thoughts
      > and feelings...
      > what substance do they have and how do they move
      > your existance?
      M: what i know for sure is that no matter what i do i
      try to not hurt anyone. Before any action i look very
      well at what i shall do and to the possible
      consequences. If there is anything that tells me is
      not right, i won�t do it. So, when i come in touch
      with something or someone, it�s me who decides if it�s
      good or bad.. and if you�ll ask me �who is this I who
      does everything� i will tell you that �I� am the whole
      world since i was born changing and growing, growing
      up and growing old, past, present and becoming, and
      �i� will stop being when death will take me away.

      >
      > M: > hope to hear from you,
      > > Mirela
      >
      > G: hope you understand the wisdom and girth that is
      > being expressed
      > towards your liberation ...
      >
      > shanti om ..g...
      >
      M: Thank you, G for your thoughts
      Wish you well,
      Mirela













      --- meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >
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      >
      >
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      > There are 2 messages in this issue.
      >
      > Topics in this digest:
      >
      > 1. (unknown)
      > From: medit8ionsociety
      > 2. answer to mirela
      > From: "G <crystalkundalini@...>"
      > <crystalkundalini@...>
      >
      >
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 1
      > Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 22:19:02 -0000
      > From: medit8ionsociety
      > Subject: (unknown)
      >
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
      > mirela basa
      > <basamirela@y...> wrote:
      > > Hi,
      > > i'm Mirela and i recently joined your group. (i
      > hope
      > > you don't mind!)
      > Welcome!
      > >I have been reading some of your
      > > conversations and i must say that this is the
      > Universe
      > > i want to be part of -- even if it's just my mind
      > who
      > > says that -- i don't know how old these
      > conversations
      > > are, but I have noticed that everyone has (kind
      > of)
      > > the same opinion about THE MIND. who is speaking
      > than,
      > > another mind? What i don't understand is why are
      > the
      > > people looking for answers outside them... I
      > strongly
      > > believe that all the answers are within us and all
      > > that we have to do it's just to be honest with
      > > ourselves and honestly recognise what we are
      > feeling.
      > I can't say you have no right to believe this or to
      > disbelieve that,
      > but I don't trust anything that comes from the
      > chattering mind. It is
      > capable of taking any point in an argument, pro or
      > con, and endorsing
      > it fully, and then in a different moment, taking the
      > opposite view and
      > saying that is correct. The mind is forever chasing
      > after things that
      > may bring pleasure and avoiding things that may be
      > unpleasant. There
      > is an inner awareness that is everpresent and can
      > observe the mind
      > jumping around, the body going through never-ending
      > reactions and the
      > emotions changing at the drop of a smile or sneer.
      > This awareness is
      > the inner Witness that has always been present and
      > is still present as
      > you read these words. This is our connection with
      > our higher intuitive
      > intelligence, that Knows! Our mind is our master and
      > keeping us in
      > illusion. Meditation is a vehicle to let us gain a
      > control (Self
      > control) over the mind and stop its foolish chatter.
      > In the Silence of
      > a stilled mind, the Source of the/all awareness
      > presents itself.
      > > I don't believe that we are the Infinite and i
      > don't
      > > believe that we are God... i believe that the
      > control
      > > is in our head, brain... that the mind is the most
      > > powerful "creature" on the Earth.
      > I agree that the mind is powerful enough to make you
      > think we are
      > separate from the Infinite/God, but I also know that
      > this is just
      > deceptive advertising, much like the cigarette ads
      > of the 50's that
      > said smoking was healthy for you. Both are illusions
      > that cause
      > suffering.
      > >
      > > There's gotta be some divisions of the mind, as
      > the
      > > soul is in the mind too, and it may seem that
      > there's
      > > more than just one (the mind!
      > You could say that an ocean is simply billions of
      > drops of water, and
      > in one perspective, that is right, but that ain't
      > seeing the forrest
      > for the trees.
      > >
      > > Dear Godfrey, which is the comfort zone?
      > The comfort zone was, is, and always will be present
      > right in
      > front/inside of our spiritual noses. As you said
      > >"I strongly believe that all the answers are within
      > us and all
      > > that we have to do it's just to be honest with
      > > ourselves and honestly recognise what we are
      > feeling."
      > The problem is that the mind can lable, judge,
      > compare, and comment,
      > but it can't be honest or understand (or as the
      > Rasta's much more
      > accuratly say, "Overstand"). BTW, you've been
      > listening to your inner
      > chatterer all your life, right? Well, has it helped
      > you be
      > comfortable?
      > >Where do you start exploring?
      > Some start by asking themselves who is this "I" who
      > needs to explore.
      > Some try to silently Witness their life as it takes
      > place, others do
      > Hatha yoga, good deeds, pray, whatever. But,no
      > kidding, your mind is
      > always kidding, and should never or hardly ever be
      > taken seriously, no
      > matter which method you use. For Me, and hundreds of
      > millions of
      > others, meditation is the best way to gain self
      > control, self
      > knowledge, control over the mind, body, emotions,
      > and so on, to the
      > point that eventually you need make no effort
      > effortlessly, and live
      > happily ever after.
      > > hope to hear from you,
      > > Mirela
      > Peace and blessings,
      > Bob
      > >
      > > Mi-este drag, intr-adevar
      > Eh, what's this about? My poor little mind can't
      > figure it out!
      >
      >
      >
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 2
      > Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 04:29:49 -0000
      > From: "G <crystalkundalini@...>"
      > <crystalkundalini@...>
      > Subject: answer to mirela
      >
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
      > mirela basa
      > <basamirela@y...> wrote:
      >
      > > Hi,
      > Hi and Namaste -
      >
      > M:> i'm Mirela and i recently joined your group. (i
      > hope
      > > you don't mind!)
      >
      > G: and why would anyone mind? that is the reason
      > for it's
      > existance...
      >
      > M: I have been reading some of your conversations
      > and i must say
      > that this is the Universe i want to be part of --
      > even if it's just
      > my mind who says that -- i don't know how old these
      > conversations
      > > are, but I have noticed that everyone has (kind
      > of) the same
      > opinion about THE MIND.
      >
      > G: opinions are of a relative nature due to the
      > colorizations of your
      > experience... birds of a feather flock together...
      >
      > M: who is speaking than, another mind? What i don't
      > understand is why
      > are the people looking for answers outside them... I
      > strongly
      > > believe that all the answers are within us and all
      > that we have to
      > do it's just to be honest with ourselves and
      > honestly recognise what
      > we are feeling.
      >
      > G: do you think the answers are found in feeling?
      > feeling is the
      > outcome of past experience... and can you Really be
      > honest with
      > yourself when you are driven by past conditionings
      > and mindsets which
      > have come by building one incident upon another? or
      > is that simply
      > the ego self having its way and calling it sight and
      > insight?
      > Feelings as well as mind are transient and changing
      > ....
      >
      > M: > I don't believe that we are the Infinite and i
      > don't believe
      > that we are God... i believe that the control is in
      > our head,
      > brain... that the mind is the most powerful
      > "creature" on the Earth.
      >
      > G: is the brain the mind? or is it simply a
      > computer and
      > waystation that processes the input of mind into a
      > viable seen
      > affair? you may not *believe* that we are Infinite
      > or God but then
      > again a belief is Not a KNOWN but simply a
      > conjecture and a suspected
      > thing... so if you know that the answers are
      > within then i suggest
      > you go fully Within and not simply go the cursory
      > intellectual
      > surfing of i *believe* for that and a $1 will get
      > you a cup of coffee
      > and no more.... it won't give you peace or
      > wisdom...
      >
      > M: There's gotta be some divisions of the mind, as
      > the soul is in the
      > mind too, and it may seem that there's more than
      > just one (the mind!)
      > >
      > G: you say it may seem .... so in this statement
      > once again it shows
      > conjecture... you do not Know for sure... so go
      > within and find
      > out...
      >
      > M: > Dear Godfrey, which is the comfort zone? Where
      > do you
      > > start exploring?
      >
      > G: ah now THAT is an intellegent question...
      > start by becoming
      > aware of how transient and fleeting are the thoughts
      > and feelings...
      > what substance do they have and how do they move
      > your existance?
      >
      > M: > hope to hear from you,
      > > Mirela
      >
      > G: hope you understand the wisdom and girth that is
      > being expressed
      > towards your liberation ...
      >
      > shanti om ..g...
      >
      > > =====
      > >
      > > Mi-este drag, intr-adevar
      > >
      > >
      > > __________________________________________________
      > > Do you Yahoo!?
      > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
      > now.
      > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
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      >
      >
      >
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      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
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      >


      =====

      Mi-este drag, intr-adevar


      __________________________________________________
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    • G <crystalkundalini@hotmail.com>
      ... G: everyone learns in their time... there is nothing to mind everyone here is here to learn to seek for answers.... or to share the answers that have
      Message 2 of 2 , Dec 25, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, mirela basa
        <basamirela@y...> wrote:
        > Dear G,
        >
        > Hi,
        > > Hi and Namaste -
        > >
        > > M:> i'm Mirela and i recently joined your group. (i
        > > hope you don't mind!)
        > >
        > > G: and why would anyone mind? that is the reason
        > > for it's existance...
        > > M: Well, sometimes, people do mind when new
        > unexperienced people come. Especially when the new
        > ones don't really know what is all about.

        G: everyone learns in their time... there is nothing to mind
        everyone here is here to learn to seek for answers.... or to share
        the answers that have already been found....


        > > M: I have been reading some of your conversations
        > > and i must say that this is the Universe i want to be part of --
        > > even if it's just my mind who says that -- i don't know how old
        these conversations are, but I have noticed that everyone has (kind
        > > of) the same opinion about THE MIND.

        > > G: opinions are of a relative nature due to the
        > > colorizations of your experience... birds of a feather flock
        together...

        > M: the Truth must be found out, right? A lot of people
        > with a lot of opinions.. who is right? When do you
        > decide that „this is true?"

        G: when you have experienced it for yourself.. when it is something
        that is Beyond anything that may be denied... Source or THAT which is
        Eternal Truth cannot be denied once entered into and KNOWN
        DIRECTLY.... it is beyond words and transient experiences that come
        and go....


        > > M: who is speaking than, another mind? What i don't
        > > understand is why are the people looking for answers outside
        them... I strongly believe that all the answers are within us and all
        > > that we have to do it's just to be honest with ourselves and
        > > honestly recognise what we are feeling.
        > >
        > > G: do you think the answers are found in feeling?
        > > feeling is the outcome of past experience... and can you Really
        be honest with yourself when you are driven by past conditionings
        > > and mindsets which have come by building one incident upon
        another? or is that simply the ego self having its way and calling
        it sight and insight?
        > > Feelings as well as mind are transient and changing ....

        > M: If both the feelings and the mind are transient and
        > changing, what is still? I don't know where the
        > answers are; i would be there if i knew… And i also
        > don't know what do i trust more: thoughts or feelings…
        > But, when i feel something that i know (i judge) is
        > true, i listen to it. Yeah, this is what we are:
        > experience, past… The diference is that if i'll look
        > NOW to myself, i don't see what i am, but i see what i
        > was… i see the changing that has taken place… my
        > thoughts, my feelings, my ideas, my everything is
        > diferent than yesterday, a month ago or a year ago… It
        > is like one thousands and one veils have been taken
        > away from my eyes… i sometimes say „How could i be so
        > stupid?". I was or not stupid, but i know that i
        > couldn't see the things how i see it now (not
        > necessarly better!)… Sometimes i wish i didn't have a
        > mind, but sometimes i'm so happy that i have it…
        >

        G: you are right in that you see that all you see is relative
        happenings... what needs to be found is that which is Unchanging ..
        you only find the Source when the limitational *I* is seen for what
        it truly is and is not... you may find out what you seek by the path
        of Self Enquiry....

        > >
        > > M: > I don't believe that we are the Infinite and i
        > > don't believe that we are God... i believe that the control is in
        > > our head, brain... that the mind is the most powerful
        > > "creature" on the Earth.
        > >
        > > G: is the brain the mind? or is it simply a
        > > computer and waystation that processes the input of mind into a
        > > viable seen affair? you may not *believe* that we are Infinite
        > > or God but then again a belief is Not a KNOWN but simply a
        > > conjecture and a suspected thing... so if you know that the
        answers are within then i suggest you go fully Within and not simply
        go the cursory intellectual surfing of i *believe* for that and a $1
        will get you a cup of coffee and no more.... it won't give you
        peace or wisdom...

        > M:Brain, mind, feelings, physical feeling etc are all
        > interrelated.. they can't exist without the other!
        > What is it true for you, G? Is it what you think? Is
        > it what you see? Is it what you feel? Where do you
        > turn when you need help? When you need to check if
        > something is true or not (thoughts, feelings,
        > whatever..), where do you go? Who do you ask?
        > Yourself? Your mind? Your heart?

        G: i may only say that it is beyond thought... it is beyond physical
        sight but it may be cognised Directly... it is beyond feelings and
        emotions... Where you turn is within until no within or without
        remains... Where do you go is within the Heart and to the root of
        what is this *I* that sees and hears and sees relative truths which
        are always in flux and change... Who do you ask? those that have
        already made the journey and can give you guidance as to where to
        seek.... You alone can make the Journey to Source... the Guide may
        give the directions to go but you alone can walk the path within....
        and you alone must be willing to pay the toll of the cost of your ego
        self identity to enter in....


        M> (I'm not very good with english and i don't really
        > know what this means : „a $1 will get you a cup of
        > coffee and no more...." can you please explain?)

        G: hahahahaha yes sorry for the confusion... it means that simply
        intellectual knowledge is useless in this realm... you must have
        Direct Experience which put to flight all concepts and ideas ...
        Direct expereince of Truth shatters all the conceived notions at
        once....


        > > M: There's gotta be some divisions of the mind, as
        > > the soul is in the mind too, and it may seem that there's more
        than just one (the mind!)
        > > >
        > > G: you say it may seem .... so in this statement
        > > once again it shows conjecture... you do not Know for sure...
        so go within and find out...

        > M: I meant that there is a superficial mind, too. How
        > do you explain that sometimes you make a decision and
        > in a few minutes you say it was bad, that you need to
        > think more about it… when you know something for the
        > first time, there is a „something" that judges it
        > right the way. Something that tells you it is either
        > good or bad, and than you further proceed…

        G: this is where it takes coming to the point of enough stillness to
        be able to witness and see what patterns are coming up and then being
        able to question them effectively... what you are using is past
        conditioning and expereince which simply gives rise to changing
        flucuations of thought as right and wrong - good or bad.... You must
        find out what is Beyond these fluctuations.....


        > > M: > Dear Godfrey, which is the comfort zone? Where
        > > do you start exploring?
        > >
        > > G: ah now THAT is an intellegent question...
        > > start by becoming aware of how transient and fleeting are the
        thoughts and feelings...
        > > what substance do they have and how do they move
        > > your existance?

        > M: what i know for sure is that no matter what i do i
        > try to not hurt anyone. Before any action i look very
        > well at what i shall do and to the possible
        > consequences. If there is anything that tells me is
        > not right, i won't do it. So, when i come in touch
        > with something or someone, it's me who decides if it's
        > good or bad.. and if you'll ask me „who is this I who
        > does everything" i will tell you that „I" am the whole
        > world since i was born changing and growing, growing
        > up and growing old, past, present and becoming, and
        > „i" will stop being when death will take me away.

        G: this is once again attempting to use relative knowledge... and
        you do not know that you will stop being when death takes you
        away... you think that is the case because you have seen physical
        forms come and go... but i say go deeper... question deeper...
        question what you are? why does the world revolve around *your*
        perceptions? if you want more information or to know more about the
        path of Jnana or knowledge you may email me directly at:
        crystalkundalini@...

        > >
        > > M: > hope to hear from you,
        > > > Mirela
        > >
        > > G: hope you understand the wisdom and girth that is
        > > being expressed
        > > towards your liberation ...
        > >
        > > shanti om ..g...
        > >
        > M: Thank you, G for your thoughts
        > Wish you well,
        > Mirela


        G: hahahahaha i am always well... thankyou

        shanti om ....g.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com wrote:
        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > >
        > meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > --------------------------------------------------------------------
        ----
        > >
        > > There are 2 messages in this issue.
        > >
        > > Topics in this digest:
        > >
        > > 1. (unknown)
        > > From: medit8ionsociety
        > > 2. answer to mirela
        > > From: "G <crystalkundalini@h...>"
        > > <crystalkundalini@h...>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        > >
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        > >
        > > Message: 1
        > > Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 22:19:02 -0000
        > > From: medit8ionsociety
        > > Subject: (unknown)
        > >
        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
        > > mirela basa
        > > <basamirela@y...> wrote:
        > > > Hi,
        > > > i'm Mirela and i recently joined your group. (i
        > > hope
        > > > you don't mind!)
        > > Welcome!
        > > >I have been reading some of your
        > > > conversations and i must say that this is the
        > > Universe
        > > > i want to be part of -- even if it's just my mind
        > > who
        > > > says that -- i don't know how old these
        > > conversations
        > > > are, but I have noticed that everyone has (kind
        > > of)
        > > > the same opinion about THE MIND. who is speaking
        > > than,
        > > > another mind? What i don't understand is why are
        > > the
        > > > people looking for answers outside them... I
        > > strongly
        > > > believe that all the answers are within us and all
        > > > that we have to do it's just to be honest with
        > > > ourselves and honestly recognise what we are
        > > feeling.
        > > I can't say you have no right to believe this or to
        > > disbelieve that,
        > > but I don't trust anything that comes from the
        > > chattering mind. It is
        > > capable of taking any point in an argument, pro or
        > > con, and endorsing
        > > it fully, and then in a different moment, taking the
        > > opposite view and
        > > saying that is correct. The mind is forever chasing
        > > after things that
        > > may bring pleasure and avoiding things that may be
        > > unpleasant. There
        > > is an inner awareness that is everpresent and can
        > > observe the mind
        > > jumping around, the body going through never-ending
        > > reactions and the
        > > emotions changing at the drop of a smile or sneer.
        > > This awareness is
        > > the inner Witness that has always been present and
        > > is still present as
        > > you read these words. This is our connection with
        > > our higher intuitive
        > > intelligence, that Knows! Our mind is our master and
        > > keeping us in
        > > illusion. Meditation is a vehicle to let us gain a
        > > control (Self
        > > control) over the mind and stop its foolish chatter.
        > > In the Silence of
        > > a stilled mind, the Source of the/all awareness
        > > presents itself.
        > > > I don't believe that we are the Infinite and i
        > > don't
        > > > believe that we are God... i believe that the
        > > control
        > > > is in our head, brain... that the mind is the most
        > > > powerful "creature" on the Earth.
        > > I agree that the mind is powerful enough to make you
        > > think we are
        > > separate from the Infinite/God, but I also know that
        > > this is just
        > > deceptive advertising, much like the cigarette ads
        > > of the 50's that
        > > said smoking was healthy for you. Both are illusions
        > > that cause
        > > suffering.
        > > >
        > > > There's gotta be some divisions of the mind, as
        > > the
        > > > soul is in the mind too, and it may seem that
        > > there's
        > > > more than just one (the mind!
        > > You could say that an ocean is simply billions of
        > > drops of water, and
        > > in one perspective, that is right, but that ain't
        > > seeing the forrest
        > > for the trees.
        > > >
        > > > Dear Godfrey, which is the comfort zone?
        > > The comfort zone was, is, and always will be present
        > > right in
        > > front/inside of our spiritual noses. As you said
        > > >"I strongly believe that all the answers are within
        > > us and all
        > > > that we have to do it's just to be honest with
        > > > ourselves and honestly recognise what we are
        > > feeling."
        > > The problem is that the mind can lable, judge,
        > > compare, and comment,
        > > but it can't be honest or understand (or as the
        > > Rasta's much more
        > > accuratly say, "Overstand"). BTW, you've been
        > > listening to your inner
        > > chatterer all your life, right? Well, has it helped
        > > you be
        > > comfortable?
        > > >Where do you start exploring?
        > > Some start by asking themselves who is this "I" who
        > > needs to explore.
        > > Some try to silently Witness their life as it takes
        > > place, others do
        > > Hatha yoga, good deeds, pray, whatever. But,no
        > > kidding, your mind is
        > > always kidding, and should never or hardly ever be
        > > taken seriously, no
        > > matter which method you use. For Me, and hundreds of
        > > millions of
        > > others, meditation is the best way to gain self
        > > control, self
        > > knowledge, control over the mind, body, emotions,
        > > and so on, to the
        > > point that eventually you need make no effort
        > > effortlessly, and live
        > > happily ever after.
        > > > hope to hear from you,
        > > > Mirela
        > > Peace and blessings,
        > > Bob
        > > >
        > > > Mi-este drag, intr-adevar
        > > Eh, what's this about? My poor little mind can't
        > > figure it out!
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        > >
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        > >
        > > Message: 2
        > > Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 04:29:49 -0000
        > > From: "G <crystalkundalini@h...>"
        > > <crystalkundalini@h...>
        > > Subject: answer to mirela
        > >
        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
        > > mirela basa
        > > <basamirela@y...> wrote:
        > >
        > > > Hi,
        > > Hi and Namaste -
        > >
        > > M:> i'm Mirela and i recently joined your group. (i
        > > hope
        > > > you don't mind!)
        > >
        > > G: and why would anyone mind? that is the reason
        > > for it's
        > > existance...
        > >
        > > M: I have been reading some of your conversations
        > > and i must say
        > > that this is the Universe i want to be part of --
        > > even if it's just
        > > my mind who says that -- i don't know how old these
        > > conversations
        > > > are, but I have noticed that everyone has (kind
        > > of) the same
        > > opinion about THE MIND.
        > >
        > > G: opinions are of a relative nature due to the
        > > colorizations of your
        > > experience... birds of a feather flock together...
        > >
        > > M: who is speaking than, another mind? What i don't
        > > understand is why
        > > are the people looking for answers outside them... I
        > > strongly
        > > > believe that all the answers are within us and all
        > > that we have to
        > > do it's just to be honest with ourselves and
        > > honestly recognise what
        > > we are feeling.
        > >
        > > G: do you think the answers are found in feeling?
        > > feeling is the
        > > outcome of past experience... and can you Really be
        > > honest with
        > > yourself when you are driven by past conditionings
        > > and mindsets which
        > > have come by building one incident upon another? or
        > > is that simply
        > > the ego self having its way and calling it sight and
        > > insight?
        > > Feelings as well as mind are transient and changing
        > > ....
        > >
        > > M: > I don't believe that we are the Infinite and i
        > > don't believe
        > > that we are God... i believe that the control is in
        > > our head,
        > > brain... that the mind is the most powerful
        > > "creature" on the Earth.
        > >
        > > G: is the brain the mind? or is it simply a
        > > computer and
        > > waystation that processes the input of mind into a
        > > viable seen
        > > affair? you may not *believe* that we are Infinite
        > > or God but then
        > > again a belief is Not a KNOWN but simply a
        > > conjecture and a suspected
        > > thing... so if you know that the answers are
        > > within then i suggest
        > > you go fully Within and not simply go the cursory
        > > intellectual
        > > surfing of i *believe* for that and a $1 will get
        > > you a cup of coffee
        > > and no more.... it won't give you peace or
        > > wisdom...
        > >
        > > M: There's gotta be some divisions of the mind, as
        > > the soul is in the
        > > mind too, and it may seem that there's more than
        > > just one (the mind!)
        > > >
        > > G: you say it may seem .... so in this statement
        > > once again it shows
        > > conjecture... you do not Know for sure... so go
        > > within and find
        > > out...
        > >
        > > M: > Dear Godfrey, which is the comfort zone? Where
        > > do you
        > > > start exploring?
        > >
        > > G: ah now THAT is an intellegent question...
        > > start by becoming
        > > aware of how transient and fleeting are the thoughts
        > > and feelings...
        > > what substance do they have and how do they move
        > > your existance?
        > >
        > > M: > hope to hear from you,
        > > > Mirela
        > >
        > > G: hope you understand the wisdom and girth that is
        > > being expressed
        > > towards your liberation ...
        > >
        > > shanti om ..g...
        > >
        > > > =====
        > > >
        > > > Mi-este drag, intr-adevar
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > __________________________________________________
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        > > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
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        > >
        > >
        >
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        > >
        >
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        > >
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        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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        > >
        >
        >
        > =====
        >
        > Mi-este drag, intr-adevar
        >
        >
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