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Re: [Meditation Society of America] "Spaciousness"

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  • Sandeep
    ... *The absence of the conceptualization and thus the question on spaciousness.*
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 2, 2006
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      aideenmck wrote:
      Sogyal Rinpoche says than meditation is 25% focus on the breath, 25%
      focus on remaining alert & wakeful & 50% focus on spaciousness.  To
      what is he referring when he uses the term "spaciousness"?


      The absence of the conceptualization and thus the question on spaciousness.


    • jogeshwarmahanta
      And not on favourable spontaneity? regards, Jogeshwar ... 25%
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 2, 2006
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        And not on favourable spontaneity?

        regards,
        Jogeshwar



        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sandeep
        <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > aideenmck wrote:
        >
        > > Sogyal Rinpoche says than meditation is 25% focus on the breath,
        25%
        > > focus on remaining alert & wakeful & 50% focus on spaciousness. To
        > > what is he referring when he uses the term "spaciousness"?
        >
        >
        >
        > *The absence of the conceptualization and thus the question on
        > spaciousness.*
        >
      • Sandeep
        * In spontaneity, there is neither the favourable nor the unfavourable. In spontaneity, there is no consciousness about spontaneity. **And there is nothing
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 2, 2006
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          In spontaneity, there is neither the  favourable nor the unfavourable.

          In spontaneity, there is no consciousness about spontaneity.
           
          And  there is nothing which is not spontaneous.:-)




          jogeshwarmahanta wrote:
          And not on favourable spontaneity?

          regards,
          Jogeshwar






        • jogeshwarmahanta
          Dear Sandeep, Can you accomodate the following realities? The opposing forces, eros/life instinct/centripetal forces and thanotos/death instinct/centrifugal
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 2, 2006
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            Dear Sandeep,

            Can you accomodate the following realities?

            The opposing forces, eros/life instinct/centripetal forces and
            thanotos/death instinct/centrifugal forces are operating
            spontaneously in us. The purpose of meditation is to maximise the
            former and minimise the later.

            regards,
            Jogeshwar






            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sandeep
            <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
            >
            > *
            >
            > In spontaneity, there is neither the favourable nor the
            unfavourable.
            >
            > In spontaneity, there is no consciousness about spontaneity.
            >
            > **And there is nothing which is not spontaneous.:-)
            >
            >
            > *
            >
            > jogeshwarmahanta wrote:
            >
            > > And not on favourable spontaneity?
            > >
            > > regards,
            > > Jogeshwar
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
            -------
            > >
            >
          • Sandeep
            * In the presence of a sense of purpose*, *there is no meditation. Which is not to say that activities do not happen, with which is associated a sense of
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 2, 2006
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              In the presence of a sense of purpose
              , there is no meditation.

              Which is not to say that activities do not happen, with which is associated a sense of purpose and which is then believed to be meditation.



              The maximizing/minimizing hoopla,  viewed as profound meditation is no different to the same hoopla in the market place.


              The same round and round the mulberry bush.

              Just that the bush has been replaced.:-)



              In meditativeness, there is the absence of the sense of the entity,

              and thus the absence of the sense of a distinction, the sense of any distinction,

              and thus the absence of any craving to maximize something or minimize something else.





              In a deeper sense (so to say).........even this distinction of what is meditativeness and what is not.........really has no basis.

              Which means, that in all the sense of the attempts to maximize something or minimize something else, .....

              ....nothing is actually getting maximized or minimized.




              Thus spaciousness, meditativeness  .........is the very absence of the presence of concepts of "spaciousness", "meditativeness".....

              .....AND....

              .....the absence of the absence of the
              presence of concepts of "spaciousness", "meditativeness".








              jogeshwarmahanta wrote:
              Dear Sandeep,

              Can you accomodate the following realities?

              The opposing forces, eros/life instinct/centripetal forces and
              thanotos/death instinct/centrifugal forces are operating
              spontaneously in us. The purpose of meditation is to maximise the
              former and minimise the later.

              regards,
              Jogeshwar






              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sandeep
              <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
              >
              > *
              >
              > In spontaneity, there is neither the  favourable nor the
              unfavourable.
              >
              > In spontaneity, there is no consciousness about spontaneity.

              > **And  there is nothing which is not spontaneous.:-)
              >
              >
              > *
              >
              > jogeshwarmahanta wrote:
              >
              > > And not on favourable spontaneity?
              > >
              > > regards,
              > > Jogeshwar
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
              -------
              > >
              >





            • jogeshwarmahanta
              Crowding or clarity? regards, Jogeshwar ... meditation. ... is no ... entity, ... any ... minimize ... what is ... something ... the ...
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 2, 2006
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                Crowding or clarity?

                regards,
                Jogeshwar









                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sandeep
                <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > *
                > In the presence of a sense of purpose*, *there is no meditation.
                >
                > Which is not to say that activities do not happen, with which is
                > associated a sense of purpose and which is then believed to be
                meditation.
                > *
                >
                >
                > *The maximizing/minimizing hoopla, viewed as profound meditation
                is no
                > different to the same hoopla in the market place.
                >
                >
                > The same round and round the mulberry bush.
                >
                > Just that the bush has been replaced.:-)
                >
                >
                >
                > **In meditativeness, there is the absence of the sense of the
                entity,
                >
                > and thus the absence of the sense of a distinction, the sense of
                any
                > distinction,
                >
                > and thus the absence of any craving to maximize something or
                minimize
                > something else.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > In a deeper sense (so to say).........even this distinction of
                what is
                > meditativeness and what is not.........really has no basis.
                >
                > Which means, that in all the sense of the attempts to maximize
                something
                > or minimize something else, .....
                >
                > ....nothing is actually getting maximized or minimized.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Thus spaciousness, meditativeness .........is the very absence of
                the
                > presence of concepts of "spaciousness", "meditativeness".....
                >
                > .....AND....
                >
                > .....the absence of the absence of the **presence of concepts of
                > "spaciousness", "meditativeness".
                >
                >
                >
                > *
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > jogeshwarmahanta wrote:
                >
                > > Dear Sandeep,
                > >
                > > Can you accomodate the following realities?
                > >
                > > The opposing forces, eros/life instinct/centripetal forces and
                > > thanotos/death instinct/centrifugal forces are operating
                > > spontaneously in us. The purpose of meditation is to maximise the
                > > former and minimise the later.
                > >
                > > regards,
                > > Jogeshwar
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sandeep
                > > <sandeep1960@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > *
                > > >
                > > > In spontaneity, there is neither the favourable nor the
                > > unfavourable.
                > > >
                > > > In spontaneity, there is no consciousness about spontaneity.
                > > >
                > > > **And there is nothing which is not spontaneous.:-)
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > *
                > > >
                > > > jogeshwarmahanta wrote:
                > > >
                > > > > And not on favourable spontaneity?
                > > > >
                > > > > regards,
                > > > > Jogeshwar
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------
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              • Bruce Morgen
                The true meditative state is the spontaneous absence of all intent. When such a state becomes the default perceptual (non-)condition associated with a nominal
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 2, 2006
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                  The true meditative state is
                  the spontaneous absence of all
                  intent. When such a state
                  becomes the default perceptual
                  (non-)condition associated with
                  a nominal individual (i.e. when
                  there's no service for said
                  individual's thoughts to perform
                  on the host organism's behalf),
                  it is often referred to as
                  "realization," "enlightenment,"
                  or some such hoopla -- one
                  supposes on account of its
                  apparent rarity among our
                  species.


                  Sandeep wrote:

                  >
                  > *
                  > In the presence of a sense of purpose*, *there is no meditation.
                  >
                  > Which is not to say that activities do not happen, with which is
                  > associated a sense of purpose and which is then believed to be meditation.
                  > *
                  >
                  >
                  > *The maximizing/minimizing hoopla, viewed as profound meditation is
                  > no different to the same hoopla in the market place.
                  >
                  >
                  > The same round and round the mulberry bush.
                  >
                  > Just that the bush has been replaced.:-)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > **In meditativeness, there is the absence of the sense of the entity,
                  >
                  > and thus the absence of the sense of a distinction, the sense of any
                  > distinction,
                  >
                  > and thus the absence of any craving to maximize something or minimize
                  > something else.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > In a deeper sense (so to say).........even this distinction of what is
                  > meditativeness and what is not.........really has no basis.
                  >
                  > Which means, that in all the sense of the attempts to maximize
                  > something or minimize something else, .....
                  >
                  > ....nothing is actually getting maximized or minimized.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Thus spaciousness, meditativeness .........is the very absence of the
                  > presence of concepts of "spaciousness", "meditativeness".....
                  >
                  > .....AND....
                  >
                  > .....the absence of the absence of the **presence of concepts of
                  > "spaciousness", "meditativeness".
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > *
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > jogeshwarmahanta wrote:
                  >
                  >> Dear Sandeep,
                  >>
                  >> Can you accomodate the following realities?
                  >>
                  >> The opposing forces, eros/life instinct/centripetal forces and
                  >> thanotos/death instinct/centrifugal forces are operating
                  >> spontaneously in us. The purpose of meditation is to maximise the
                  >> former and minimise the later.
                  >>
                  >> regards,
                  >> Jogeshwar
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sandeep
                  >> <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
                  >> >
                  >> > *
                  >> >
                  >> > In spontaneity, there is neither the favourable nor the
                  >> unfavourable.
                  >> >
                  >> > In spontaneity, there is no consciousness about spontaneity.
                  >> >
                  >> > **And there is nothing which is not spontaneous.:-)
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> > *
                  >> >
                  >> > jogeshwarmahanta wrote:
                  >> >
                  >> > > And not on favourable spontaneity?
                  >> > >
                  >> > > regards,
                  >> > > Jogeshwar
                  >> > >
                  >
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