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Realisation of self-knowledge - - Is it not Salvation & achievement of Lord?

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  • prakki surya
    Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami What is Realisation of self-knowledge? Is it not complete Salvation and achievement of Lord? A) The word Atma
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 30, 2005
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      Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami
       
      What is Realisation of self-knowledge? Is it not complete Salvation and achievement of Lord?
      A) The word Atma (Self) is common in both Jeevatma (Soul) and Paramatma (Lord). The word collector is common in both District collector and Bill collector. You are asking for the address of collector. The address of bill collector is different from district collector. The purpose to meet the collector must also be specified, which indicates whether you have to meet the district collector or bill collector. Therefore, the self-realisation, which means reaching either Jeevatma or Paramatma must be clarified. If you reach Jeevatma, there is one type of benefit and if you reach Paramatma, there is another type of benefit. Benefit means to attain something, which you do  not possess.  Loss  means to  lose  what you have. Some people treat that not to have a loss is also a benefit. But, benefit means really to attain something, which you do not have. If you attain Jeevatma you will not have the loss. You have attained what you have. In such case, you have become the Jeevatma which is pure awareness (Suddha chaitanyam). You have withdrawn the ‘I’ from the physical body. Then you have withdrawn the ‘I’ from the three qualities. Finally, you have fixed your ‘I’ to the pure awareness. By doing so, you have attained the peace which is the inherent quality of the pure awareness. You have crossed all the problems. You have lost the peace in these problems. Now you have attained what you have already in yourself. By this, you have arrested the loss and you can consider this as profit. Ofcourse, this attainment is intermediate state. This is only half of the journey. The rest half is to attain and please the Lord. The peace will be useful in the next half of the journey.
       
      The word Atma has four meanings. 1) The Human body made of five elements 2) the three qualities 3) the pure awareness 4) the Lord (Paramatma or Parabrahma). All these four meanings can be applied in only one place i.e., the human incarnation of the Lord. There is no second alternative for this case, because in the case of Lord Krishna, the external human body, the three qualities, the pure awareness and the Parabrahman exist. In an ordinary human being the first three items exist and the fourth item is absent. Therefore, if you take an ordinary human being as meaning for the word Atma, the second alternative i.e., Paramatma (i.e., Parabrahman) exists and therefore the doubt comes whether the word Atma means humanbeing or Paramatma. In the case of human incarnation this doubt does not exist because all the four items are together. Therefore, the best and doubtless meaning of the word Atman is only the human incarnation of Lord. The word Atma means pervading (Atati iti). Since the human body pervades some space, it is Atma. Since the three qualities pervade all over the pure awareness as  the  waves  pervade  the water, the three qualities are also Atma. Since the pure awareness pervades all over the body, it is also Atma. Since the Lord pervades all over the world as substratum, He is also Atma. The human incarnation is perceived by the naked eyes and therefore satisfies, pratyaksha pramaana (Deduction by Perception) of even Charvaka. The theory of Charvaka was mentioned as one of the six theories by Vidyaranya in his book called ‘Shat darsana saara sangrahah’. All the pramaanaas are based on pratyaksha only. Even in the inference (Anumaana pramaana), the fire is inferred by see ing the smoke. Unless you have seen the relationship between smoke and fire, how can you infer the fire? Even in the upamaana pramaana (simily) an animal in the forest is said to be similar to cow. Unless you have seen the cow, how can you recognise that animal? The fourth pramaana is ‘Sabda’ (statement of a reliable person). In this pramaana you believe the existence of the Kasi City when a reliable person says about it. In this pramaana also unless he has seen the Kasi City how can he talk about it? Therefore, the atheist and scientist, who follow the theory of Charvaka must also be convinced with the human incarnation of Lord. Such human incarnation is the Satguru, who can give you the right knowledge, which is the true meaning of Veda. By such knowledge only, the devotion (Bhakti yoga) and the service (Karma yoga) result. Knowledge is like a seed. It will give tree (Bhakti) and then the fruit (Karma or Seva) of the Lord. Without seed we cannot get the fruit. But, if the seed is not producing the tree and then the fruit, there is no use of such seed. Therefore, the knowledge must lead into practice and without practice there is no use of knowledge. Shankara said that human birth is very rare. Even if the human birth is achieved, the desire for salvation is still rare in the human beings. Even if such spiritual desire exists, catching Satguru is very very rare (Maha purusha samsrayah). Satguru is none but Narayana, who came down in the form of Nara (human being). Thus catching and pleasing the Satguru is the end of Saadhana (spiritual effort). The goal is attained here itself (Jeevanmukti). Veda says that the goal comes down before your eyes and is not in any other world (Yatsakshaat aparokshaat Brahma). Gita also says the same (Manusheem tanumasritaam). Datta is any human incarnation of the Lord that comes down as Satguru to preach the true knowledge of scriptures. Datta means the Lord donated to this world in human form. Datta does not mean a particular form of deity like Indra, Agni etc.  The human being consists of three components only i.e., the human body (Sthula sareera), the three qualities (Sukshma sareera) and the pure awareness (Karana sareera). An ignorant human being leaves the human incarnation by seeing the external human body which shows all the rules of nature like birth, death, hunger etc. Since, Krishna is eating butter due to hunger, the ignorant person thinks Krishna as an ordinary human being. Majority of the people are ignorant due to illusion of Sthula sareera (human body).These people fail in the very first test itself.  Some wise people think that the Lord is wearing external human body. Even the cloth of the king, can be cut by a blade. So, they think that the Lord is not the human body, but the soul inside, which is a mass of all good qualities only (Sattvam) as in the case of Rama. They think that the Lord is Sattvam quality only, which is Vishnu. This is represented by the single face of Datta (Eka mukha Datta). These people have committed two mistakes. 1) They think that the Lord is a quality and do not know that He is beyond any quality (Gunaateeta). Infact, He is the possessor of all these qualities and not any quality as said in Gita (Nachaham theshu). 2) They think that He is only Sattvam quality (Vishnu) and not Rajas (Brahma) and Tamas (Shiva). The three faces of Datta indicate that He is not in any single face (quality), but He is the possessor of all the three faces. Therefore, to remove the ignorance of these people, He exhibits the other two faces (Rajas & Tamas). Krishna stole the butter (Tamas) and Narasimha was very angry (Rajas). Datta came out of the lake embracing and kissing a naked lady (intensive Tamas) and all the sages who were waiting on the bank of lake ran away because they were expecting him to be only Vishnu having the good (Sattvam) quality. This is significance of the three faces of Datta. Foolish people think that Datta is a form moving with three heads as a peculiar specimen. Thus, even wise people fail in the second test because they think that the Lord is the quality and that too Sattvam quality only. The three qualities are the three coloured shirts. When you think that He is only white shirt (Sattvam), He will appear in red (Rajas) and black (Tamas) shirts. This proves that He is not any shirt and also that He is not in any shirt. Datta is not Sukshma sareera (the three qualities) or Jeeva.
       
      In the third test, the advaita scholars cross the human body and the three qualities. They settle in the standstill pure awareness (Nirguna chaitanyam) which is again the Kaarana sareera only and not the Lord. They think that the Lord is pure awareness without the three qualities like standstill water without waves. The advaita scholars try to touch the Lord through their self-effort i.e., self-analysis. By this, they can touch the pure awareness, which is the Maya i.e., the mind of the Lord. Maya is also pure awareness and is the power of the Lord. This Maya is like the ocean. The tidal waves in this ocean, which are the apparent modifications of Maya (Vivarta of Shankara) are the three qualities (Gunaas or bhaavaas) and these three qualities are called Brahma (Rajas), Vishnu (Sattvam) & Shiva (Tamas). A part of this Maya is modified into the inert five elements by which planets, hills, rivers etc. form. It is real modification (Parinaama of Ramanuja) because the awareness is converted into inert matter. A part of this Maya entered some inert forms, which have become the various living beings. In every living being a little quantity of Maya is present which has small vibrations. These vibrations are the three qualities in the soul. Therefore a soul is a drop of Maya (pure awareness) with small vibrations. The ocean of Maya with its tidal waves is surrounded by this Cosmos made of five elements (Brahmanda). Similarly, the soul is also surrounded by a small body made of five elements (Pindanda). The advaita scholars cross the body and the vibrations and finally settle in the standstill drop of Maya. When this drop is quantitatively extended, it becomes infinite Standstill Ocean without waves. Thus, one can imagine a standstill ocean through his standstill drop. But, he cannot touch the substratum of the ocean even by imagination. He is a part and parcel of the dream, which consists of living and non-living beings. The mind of the dreamer (awareness) with the qualities or ideas created the dream. A part of the mind is modified into the inert city. Another part of mind entered several inert forms as drops making those forms as living beings. The waves of the mind have been reduced to vibrations of the drops in the living beings. A human being can touch, at the maximum, the mind only, which is the root cause of the dream and the mind is not the dreamer. The advaita philosopher unable to know this secret mistakes the mind (Maya) itself as the dreamer (Mayin or Lord). Since, he thinks that the ocean of awareness is the Lord, he assumes that he himself is the Lord forgetting the quantitative difference between the drop and ocean even in his false assumption.  He removes the quantitative difference between the drop and ocean by saying that the space is not true.  Then the tiny soul becomes the infinite Brahman.  Very Good!  Then why this tiny soul which has become Brahman is not ruling the entire world and become Eeswara? He committed two mistakes. 1) Assuming that awareness is the very nature of the Lord,  the quantitative  differ ence between the Lord and soul is forgotten. 2) The Lord is not the awareness because the Lord is beyond imagination. Apart from these two mistakes, he is forgetting the existence of the super power in the Lord and absence of the same super power in himself. Krishna lifted the mountain on his finger and he told the excellent Bhagavat Gita. The advaita philosopher is unable to do these two things and claims himself to be the Lord. He is seeing only the similarity in the pure awareness. But, he is neglecting the difference in the power. Such attitude comes only due to ambition to become the Lord and egoism of self and jealousy on Krishna. He says that this world is a dream.
       
      But, this world is a dream for the dreamer who is the Lord. He is only a part of parcel of the dream. Even Shankara swallowed the molten lead and asked his disciples to swallow the same. Shankara declared that He alone is Shiva (Shivah kevaloham) and not the disciples.  If you are ignorant, you will fail in the first test. If you are a wise person, you will fail in the second test. If you are an advaita scholar, you will fail in the third test. If you have passed all the three tests and if you have recognised Satguru, you are having Atma Jnana. If you have reached the Satguru, you have attained Atman. If you have become servant and pleased Satguru i.e., Kaivalya in which you are always associated and protected by the Lord in this world as well as in the upper world i.e., Brahma Loka. The Lord is the ruler of your self also and is called as Atmeswara in Veda (Atmeswaram sasvatam).
       
        posted by: His servant
        at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
        www.universal-spirituality.org


      Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
    • jodyrrr
      ... wrote: [snip] If you have passed all the three tests and if you have recognised Satguru, you are having Atma Jnana. If you have reached
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 31, 2005
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
        <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

        [snip]

        If you have passed all the three tests and if you have recognised
        Satguru, you are having Atma Jnana. If you have reached the Satguru,
        you have attained Atman. If you have become servant and pleased
        Satguru i.e., Kaivalya in which you are always associated and
        protected by the Lord in this world as well as in the upper world
        i.e., Brahma Loka. The Lord is the ruler of your self also and is
        called as Atmeswara in Veda (Atmeswaram sasvatam).

        More despicable and disgusting self-promotion from that
        "wannabe-God-more-than-you-and-me", the tragically deluded
        Swami Datta.
      • medit8ionsociety
        ... The delusion that you are God is more spiritually evolved than the delusion that you are not God. Kir Li Molari
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 31, 2005
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          > <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
          >
          > [snip]
          >
          > If you have passed all the three tests and if you have recognised
          > Satguru, you are having Atma Jnana. If you have reached the Satguru,
          > you have attained Atman. If you have become servant and pleased
          > Satguru i.e., Kaivalya in which you are always associated and
          > protected by the Lord in this world as well as in the upper world
          > i.e., Brahma Loka. The Lord is the ruler of your self also and is
          > called as Atmeswara in Veda (Atmeswaram sasvatam).

          >>"jodyrrr" <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
          >> More despicable and disgusting self-promotion from that
          >>"wannabe-God-more-than-you-and-me", the tragically deluded
          >> Swami Datta.

          "The delusion that you are God is more spiritually
          evolved than the delusion that you are not God."
          Kir Li Molari
        • jodyrrr
          ... The delusion that one is the incarnation of God is like the delusion that one is Jesus Christ. Neither claim would be made by a spiritually evolved person,
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 31, 2005
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
            <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            >
            > > <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
            > >
            > > [snip]
            > >
            > > If you have passed all the three tests and if you have recognised
            > > Satguru, you are having Atma Jnana. If you have reached the Satguru,
            > > you have attained Atman. If you have become servant and pleased
            > > Satguru i.e., Kaivalya in which you are always associated and
            > > protected by the Lord in this world as well as in the upper world
            > > i.e., Brahma Loka. The Lord is the ruler of your self also and is
            > > called as Atmeswara in Veda (Atmeswaram sasvatam).
            >
            > >>"jodyrrr" <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
            > >> More despicable and disgusting self-promotion from that
            > >>"wannabe-God-more-than-you-and-me", the tragically deluded
            > >> Swami Datta.
            >
            > "The delusion that you are God is more spiritually
            > evolved than the delusion that you are not God."
            > Kir Li Molari

            The delusion that one is the incarnation of
            God is like the delusion that one is Jesus Christ.

            Neither claim would be made by a spiritually evolved
            person, in my opinion.
          • medit8ionsociety
            ... recognised Satguru, you are having Atma Jnana. If you have reached the Satguru, you have attained Atman. If you have become servant and pleased Satguru
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 31, 2005
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              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
              <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
              > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              > >
              > > > <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > [snip]
              > > >
              > > > If you have passed all the three tests and if you have
              recognised Satguru, you are having Atma Jnana. If you have reached the
              Satguru, you have attained Atman. If you have become servant and
              pleased Satguru i.e., Kaivalya in which you are always associated and
              protected by the Lord in this world as well as in the upper world
              i.e., Brahma Loka. The Lord is the ruler of your self also and is
              called as Atmeswara in Veda (Atmeswaram sasvatam).

              > > >>"jodyrrr" <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
              > > >> More despicable and disgusting self-promotion from that
              > > >>"wannabe-God-more-than-you-and-me", the tragically deluded
              > > >> Swami Datta.
              > >
              > > "The delusion that you are God is more spiritually
              > > evolved than the delusion that you are not God."
              > > Kir Li Molari

              >"jodyrrr" <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
              > The delusion that one is the incarnation of
              > God is like the delusion that one is Jesus Christ.
              >
              > Neither claim would be made by a spiritually evolved
              > person, in my opinion.

              Yo Sri Jodyji,
              I remember a few years ago seeing 2 Jesus Christ's
              on the Howard Stern show. I can't recall the exact
              content of the interaction, but I do recall it being
              fascinating and entertaining. Similarly, as an ex-hippie,
              and a psych RN, I have met a few others over the years,
              and they most often are far from as dull as the non-
              God claiment-delusional people that we run into all the
              time. Usually they are very alive and in the moment.
              Perhaps this is just to protect their delusion, but in
              any case that's what everyone else also seems to be doing,
              but just not as obsessively or amusingly.
              In any event, it's all in good fun and as St George
              (Harrison) once said "It's all in your mind you know!",
              so maybe we should just have some compassion and thank
              the higher powers (if you believe that there such things)
              for the semi-interesting respites from the same-ol, same-ol.
              Peace and blessings,
              Bob
            • medit8ionsociety
              ... In answer to an email about Why is Jody after this Datta? And why does he care at all? IMHO, at least semi-seriously, humility and compassion are the
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 31, 2005
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                > > "The delusion that you are God is more spiritually
                > > evolved than the delusion that you are not God."
                > > Kir Li Molari

                Jody wrote:
                > The delusion that one is the incarnation of
                > God is like the delusion that one is Jesus Christ.
                >
                > Neither claim would be made by a spiritually evolved
                > person, in my opinion.

                In answer to an email about "Why is Jody after this
                Datta? And why does he care at all?"

                IMHO, at least semi-seriously, humility and compassion
                are the foremost characteristics one would see in a
                spiritualized person, and any claim of Divinity is so
                over the top of the humility barrel that it makes
                it easy to be suspect of the claimant. I feel that
                Jodyji shows his compassion in action by pointing out
                those who he feels may be a wrong turn in seekers
                quest for Truth. And it is up to the readers to take
                his advise or not. Personally, I appreciate the effort
                and am sure it is all well intended.
                Peace and blessings,
                Bob
              • jodyrrr
                ... Thanks, Bob. But it s not really about Datta s qualifications as a guru. It s about the idea that he is an incarnation of God more than anyone else.
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 31, 2005
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                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
                  <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > > "The delusion that you are God is more spiritually
                  > > > evolved than the delusion that you are not God."
                  > > > Kir Li Molari
                  >
                  > Jody wrote:
                  > > The delusion that one is the incarnation of
                  > > God is like the delusion that one is Jesus Christ.
                  > >
                  > > Neither claim would be made by a spiritually evolved
                  > > person, in my opinion.
                  >
                  > In answer to an email about "Why is Jody after this
                  > Datta? And why does he care at all?"
                  >
                  > IMHO, at least semi-seriously, humility and compassion
                  > are the foremost characteristics one would see in a
                  > spiritualized person, and any claim of Divinity is so
                  > over the top of the humility barrel that it makes
                  > it easy to be suspect of the claimant. I feel that
                  > Jodyji shows his compassion in action by pointing out
                  > those who he feels may be a wrong turn in seekers
                  > quest for Truth. And it is up to the readers to take
                  > his advise or not. Personally, I appreciate the effort
                  > and am sure it is all well intended.
                  > Peace and blessings,
                  > Bob

                  Thanks, Bob. But it's not really about Datta's
                  qualifications as a guru. It's about the idea that
                  he is an incarnation of God more than anyone else.

                  Datta represents all that is wrong with spiritual
                  culture: the idea that spiritual understanding
                  makes you anything more than a human being who knows
                  who they are. There is no magic, miracles, special
                  visions or visitations involved. *Any* of these are
                  objects of the senses.

                  **Higher than the senses are the objects of the sense.
                  **Higher than the objects of sense is the mind;
                  **And higher than the mind is the intellect.
                  **Higher than the intellect is the Great Self.
                  --Katha Upanishad

                  Everything Datta is talking about are objects
                  of the sense. His supposed status as that who
                  incarnated as Jesus, Buddha, etc, and his supposed
                  access to the infinite power of God, which he
                  refuses to demonstrate, of course.

                  Datta's claims about himself are perfectly
                  preposterous. That's why I care about what
                  he says here, and I want him and everyone
                  else to know it, until you ask me to cease
                  and desist that is.
                • prakki surya
                  MATTHEW 7 : 13 AND 14 “Enter by the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction and there are many who go in by it”.
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 31, 2005
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                    MATTHEW 7 : 13 AND 14
                    “Enter by the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction and there are many who go in by it”. 
                     
                    Bhagavathgita says “Manushyaanam Sahasreshu…..” which means that millions of people will try to reach God but only one can reach God.  This means that the spiritual path is narrow with one or two devotees only who can reach God.  So you should not follow the majority as example in spiritual path.  Majority goes to Hell.  Will you also go to hell?  Diamonds are in minority and gravel stones are in majority.  In worldly matters you can follow the majority.  But in spiritual line there is only one Jesus one Buddha one Sankara etc., If you are in the association of majority you will be polluted by them since they induce the worldly poison through their conversations (Luke 13: 20 & 21).  If you are in the association of the Satguru you will be spiritually strengthened by His gospel. 
                     
                    Q) The majority of the people will oppose the spiritual path preached by you. Only one in thousands can accept your path. Should you not be universal and preach the path acceptable to all the people?

                    A) In spiritual path, majority always goes to hell. Gita says that one in thousands can only reach the God. Even that one person will reach the Lord after several births (Kaschit Maam Vetti, Bahunaam Janmanaam). Jesus also says that the path leading the hell is very wide with full of rush. The path leading to the Lord is very narrow and only one or two persons will be travelling. The path to the hell is filled with flowers and the path to the Lord is filled with thorns. Therefore the path to the Lord is not acceptable to all. Then shall I recommend the path filled with flowers to all the people which is easily acceptable to all of them? I am universal because I am preaching the narrow thorny path to all the people. But the path is not universal. I cannot help for that. In the spiritual path only minority exists. There is only one in millions like Sankara, Ramanuja, Madhva, Jesus, Sai, Vivekananda etc., in the spiritual path. The gravel stones are in majority. There is only one Kohinoor diamond, which is valuable. The fraud Gurus shows that flowery path which is “Amrutha Visham” i.e., it looks like nectar but it is actually the poison. The Satguru shows the thorny path, which is “Visha Amrutham” i.e., it looks like poison but it is actually the nectar. Gita says the same (Yat Tat Agre Vishamiva).

                      posted by: His servant
                      at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
                      www.universal-spirituality.org

                    medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                    In answer to an email about "Why is Jody after this
                    Datta? And why does he care at all?"

                    IMHO, at least semi-seriously, humility and compassion
                    are the foremost characteristics one would see in a
                    spiritualized person, and any claim of Divinity is so
                    over the top of the humility barrel that it makes
                    it easy to be suspect of the claimant. I feel that
                    Jodyji shows his compassion in action by pointing out
                    those who he feels may be a wrong turn in seekers
                    quest for Truth. And it is up to the readers to take
                    his advise or not. Personally, I appreciate the effort
                    and am sure it is all well intended.
                    Peace and blessings,
                    Bob


                    Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less

                  • prakki surya
                    Q) Why Lord Datta is becoming famous in these days? A) In the previous ages the people were with high spiritual standard. There was no much need preaching the
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 31, 2005
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                      Q) Why Lord Datta is becoming famous in these days?
                      A) In the previous ages the people were with high spiritual standard. There was no much need preaching the divine knowledge. Even if there was a small necessity, the servants and disciples of Lord Datta used to come as human incarnation. They could solve the minor problems and used to leave the world. But today the situation is completely different. The spiritual standard has fallen. Generally, when the standard falls the people become ignorant. It is easy to teach the ignorant person and a scholar. Therefore in the present situation, if the people were simply ignorant, it would have been very easy to preach them. But today the spiritual standard is less and the people have become very very intelligent.
                       
                      The meaning of Veda is twisted to suit their convenience. At the same time they want the highest result. For Ex: Geeta says that the fruit of the work should be sacrifice (Karmajam Bhudhi Yuktahi Phalam Tyaktva) and says further that if one sacrifices the desire for the fruit of the work, he can easily sacrifice the fruit of the work. The reason for not sacrificing the fruit of the work was found to be the one desiring for the fruit of the work. Therefore desire for the fruit of the work is to be sacrificed so that one can sacrifice the fruit of the work easily. But the people have taken the essence of Geeta as the sacrifice of the desire of the fruit of the work and not the sacrifice of the fruit of the work. Thus Geeta is misinterpreted and the sacrifice of fruit of work is buried because it is not convenient due to their love on their families and greediness. One sacrifices the desire for the fruit of the work and enjoys the fruit of the work. He says that he will get salvation because he followed Geeta. Similarly Veda says that one can attain by the salvation by the sacrifice of money (Dhanena Tyagena). But people have introduced the work ‘na’ which means no before the word ‘Dhanena’.
                       
                      Veda is twisted and a wrong meaning is extracted like this: One cannot attain the Lord by earning, enjoying and sacrifice of money. This led to the inaction. People have become lazy and do not work to earn the money. They started depending on others claiming themselves as saints. Like this real meaning of Veda was twisted in a wrong path was established. People have become very talented in creating such twisted meanings. Thus in Kaliyuga people are not ignorant, but they have become over intelligent. The development of science also made them to analyze the spiritual concepts with opposing tendency. Scientists have become atheists forgetting that science is also a divine knowledge given by the Lord called as ‘Pravrutti’.
                       
                      Under such circumstances nobody else than the Lord Datta can clear the situation. The ‘Satguru’ Himself has to come down who is the Lord in the human form. This is the reason why Lord Datta Himself started coming down to this world in human form in the present age.

                        posted by: His servant
                        at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
                        www.universal-spirituality.org

                      jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
                      The delusion that one is the incarnation of
                      God is like the delusion that one is Jesus Christ.

                      Neither claim would be made by a spiritually evolved
                      person, in my opinion.


                      Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.

                    • Reynold Wingate
                      Jodyji, please keep posting your views. I have not missed anything you wrote so far. It helps people like me from being swept away by a deluge of writings, no
                      Message 10 of 14 , Dec 31, 2005
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                        Jodyji, please keep posting your views. I have not
                        missed anything you wrote so far. It helps people like
                        me from being swept away by a deluge of writings, no
                        matter how well intentioned they are.

                        Rey
                        --- jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:


                        ---------------------------------
                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                        medit8ionsociety
                        <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > > "The delusion that you are God is more
                        spiritually
                        > > > evolved than the delusion that you are not God."
                        > > > Kir Li Molari
                        >
                        > Jody wrote:
                        > > The delusion that one is the incarnation of
                        > > God is like the delusion that one is Jesus Christ.
                        > >
                        > > Neither claim would be made by a spiritually
                        evolved
                        > > person, in my opinion.
                        >
                        > In answer to an email about "Why is Jody after this
                        > Datta? And why does he care at all?"
                        >
                        > IMHO, at least semi-seriously, humility and
                        compassion
                        > are the foremost characteristics one would see in a
                        > spiritualized person, and any claim of Divinity is
                        so
                        > over the top of the humility barrel that it makes
                        > it easy to be suspect of the claimant. I feel that
                        > Jodyji shows his compassion in action by pointing
                        out
                        > those who he feels may be a wrong turn in seekers
                        > quest for Truth. And it is up to the readers to take
                        > his advise or not. Personally, I appreciate the
                        effort
                        > and am sure it is all well intended.
                        > Peace and blessings,
                        > Bob

                        Thanks, Bob. But it's not really about Datta's
                        qualifications as a guru. It's about the idea that
                        he is an incarnation of God more than anyone else.

                        Datta represents all that is wrong with spiritual
                        culture: the idea that spiritual understanding
                        makes you anything more than a human being who knows
                        who they are. There is no magic, miracles, special
                        visions or visitations involved. *Any* of these are
                        objects of the senses.

                        **Higher than the senses are the objects of the sense.
                        **Higher than the objects of sense is the mind;
                        **And higher than the mind is the intellect.
                        **Higher than the intellect is the Great Self.
                        --Katha Upanishad

                        Everything Datta is talking about are objects
                        of the sense. His supposed status as that who
                        incarnated as Jesus, Buddha, etc, and his supposed
                        access to the infinite power of God, which he
                        refuses to demonstrate, of course.

                        Datta's claims about himself are perfectly
                        preposterous. That's why I care about what
                        he says here, and I want him and everyone
                        else to know it, until you ask me to cease
                        and desist that is.





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                      • medit8ionsociety
                        ... Jodyji, I can t imagine (well, I guess I could imagine:-) ever not being glad that you fight the good fight against those who would delude people
                        Message 11 of 14 , Dec 31, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                          <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
                          > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > > "The delusion that you are God is more spiritually
                          > > > > evolved than the delusion that you are not God."
                          > > > > Kir Li Molari
                          > >
                          > > Jody wrote:
                          > > > The delusion that one is the incarnation of
                          > > > God is like the delusion that one is Jesus Christ.
                          > > >
                          > > > Neither claim would be made by a spiritually evolved
                          > > > person, in my opinion.
                          > >
                          > > In answer to an email about "Why is Jody after this
                          > > Datta? And why does he care at all?"
                          > >
                          > > IMHO, at least semi-seriously, humility and compassion
                          > > are the foremost characteristics one would see in a
                          > > spiritualized person, and any claim of Divinity is so
                          > > over the top of the humility barrel that it makes
                          > > it easy to be suspect of the claimant. I feel that
                          > > Jodyji shows his compassion in action by pointing out
                          > > those who he feels may be a wrong turn in seekers
                          > > quest for Truth. And it is up to the readers to take
                          > > his advise or not. Personally, I appreciate the effort
                          > > and am sure it is all well intended.
                          > > Peace and blessings,
                          > > Bob
                          >
                          > Thanks, Bob. But it's not really about Datta's
                          > qualifications as a guru. It's about the idea that
                          > he is an incarnation of God more than anyone else.
                          >
                          > Datta represents all that is wrong with spiritual
                          > culture: the idea that spiritual understanding
                          > makes you anything more than a human being who knows
                          > who they are. There is no magic, miracles, special
                          > visions or visitations involved. *Any* of these are
                          > objects of the senses.
                          >
                          > **Higher than the senses are the objects of the sense.
                          > **Higher than the objects of sense is the mind;
                          > **And higher than the mind is the intellect.
                          > **Higher than the intellect is the Great Self.
                          > --Katha Upanishad
                          >
                          > Everything Datta is talking about are objects
                          > of the sense. His supposed status as that who
                          > incarnated as Jesus, Buddha, etc, and his supposed
                          > access to the infinite power of God, which he
                          > refuses to demonstrate, of course.
                          >
                          > Datta's claims about himself are perfectly
                          > preposterous. That's why I care about what
                          > he says here, and I want him and everyone
                          > else to know it, until you ask me to cease
                          > and desist that is.

                          Jodyji,
                          I can't imagine (well, I guess I could imagine:-)
                          ever not being glad that you fight the good fight
                          against those who would delude people concerning
                          the most important thing of all - their spiritual
                          well-being and potential for the evolution of their
                          consciousness (or some similar lofty sounding thing:-).
                          In so many cases you have gotten people to reveal
                          themselves for who they really are amazingly well.
                          Your comments have often brought about responses by your
                          "targets" that provide the exact reactions that perfectly
                          prove your point about them. So, please pat yourself on
                          your spiritual back for me, and as St Crumb would say...
                          "Keep on keeping on!"
                          Peace and blessings,
                          Bob
                        • jodyrrr
                          ... More self-serving nonsense from the deluded mind of Swami Datta.
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jan 1, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                            <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
                            >
                            > MATTHEW 7 : 13 AND 14
                            >
                            > "Enter by the narrow gate, for wide is the gate
                            > and broad is the way that leads to destruction
                            > and there are many who go in by it".

                            More self-serving nonsense from the deluded mind
                            of Swami Datta.
                          • jodyrrr
                            ... wrote: [snip] ... You re nuttier than a Christmas fruitcake, Datta.
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jan 1, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                              <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

                              [snip]

                              > Under such circumstances nobody else than the Lord
                              > Datta can clear the situation. The `Satguru' Himself
                              > has to come down who is the Lord in the human form. T
                              > his is the reason why Lord Datta Himself started coming
                              > down to this world in human form in the present age.

                              You're nuttier than a Christmas fruitcake, Datta.
                            • jodyrrr
                              ... Thanks, Rey. I ll keep posting as long as Bobji lets me. I can t seem to escape my compulsion to tell these grandiose egoists anything else, anyway.
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jan 1, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Reynold Wingate
                                <reystar99@y...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Jodyji, please keep posting your views. I have not
                                > missed anything you wrote so far. It helps people like
                                > me from being swept away by a deluge of writings, no
                                > matter how well intentioned they are.
                                >
                                > Rey

                                Thanks, Rey.

                                I'll keep posting as long as Bobji lets me.
                                I can't seem to escape my compulsion to tell
                                these grandiose egoists anything else, anyway.

                                --jody.

                                > --- jodyrrr <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > ---------------------------------
                                > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                > medit8ionsociety
                                > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > > "The delusion that you are God is more
                                > spiritually
                                > > > > evolved than the delusion that you are not God."
                                > > > > Kir Li Molari
                                > >
                                > > Jody wrote:
                                > > > The delusion that one is the incarnation of
                                > > > God is like the delusion that one is Jesus Christ.
                                > > >
                                > > > Neither claim would be made by a spiritually
                                > evolved
                                > > > person, in my opinion.
                                > >
                                > > In answer to an email about "Why is Jody after this
                                > > Datta? And why does he care at all?"
                                > >
                                > > IMHO, at least semi-seriously, humility and
                                > compassion
                                > > are the foremost characteristics one would see in a
                                > > spiritualized person, and any claim of Divinity is
                                > so
                                > > over the top of the humility barrel that it makes
                                > > it easy to be suspect of the claimant. I feel that
                                > > Jodyji shows his compassion in action by pointing
                                > out
                                > > those who he feels may be a wrong turn in seekers
                                > > quest for Truth. And it is up to the readers to take
                                > > his advise or not. Personally, I appreciate the
                                > effort
                                > > and am sure it is all well intended.
                                > > Peace and blessings,
                                > > Bob
                                >
                                > Thanks, Bob. But it's not really about Datta's
                                > qualifications as a guru. It's about the idea that
                                > he is an incarnation of God more than anyone else.
                                >
                                > Datta represents all that is wrong with spiritual
                                > culture: the idea that spiritual understanding
                                > makes you anything more than a human being who knows
                                > who they are. There is no magic, miracles, special
                                > visions or visitations involved. *Any* of these are
                                > objects of the senses.
                                >
                                > **Higher than the senses are the objects of the sense.
                                > **Higher than the objects of sense is the mind;
                                > **And higher than the mind is the intellect.
                                > **Higher than the intellect is the Great Self.
                                > --Katha Upanishad
                                >
                                > Everything Datta is talking about are objects
                                > of the sense. His supposed status as that who
                                > incarnated as Jesus, Buddha, etc, and his supposed
                                > access to the infinite power of God, which he
                                > refuses to demonstrate, of course.
                                >
                                > Datta's claims about himself are perfectly
                                > preposterous. That's why I care about what
                                > he says here, and I want him and everyone
                                > else to know it, until you ask me to cease
                                > and desist that is.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ---------------------------------
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                                >
                                >
                                > Visit your group "meditationsocietyofamerica" on
                                > the web.
                                >
                                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                >
                                > meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >
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                                > Terms of Service.
                                >
                                >
                                > ---------------------------------
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                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
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