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Re: Identity mark of the skeptic

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  • jodyrrr
    ... There s nothing else but, Jeffji. ... It s not guru marketing that I m bashing, it s the idea that anyone is anymore God than anyone else. As well as those
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 29, 2005
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
      <jeff@m...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
      > <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
      > > <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > > [snip]
      > >
      > > > Moreover the Lord in human form always hesitates to
      > > > perform the miracles
      > >
      > > Because he can't! He's a wackadoodle-dandy who needs
      > > to be on medication.> >
      >
      > According to Jung, young Jody, what you persistently pass off
      > as objective truths are only your own subjective projections.

      There's nothing else but, Jeffji.

      > Bashing away at guru marketing with the trouncing tenacity
      > of a rivet gun, and even putting together Jody's Book of Offical
      > Discreditation, is without foundation other than your personal
      > pit-bull positioning.

      It's not guru marketing that I'm bashing, it's the
      idea that anyone is anymore God than anyone else.
      As well as those who spread myth rather than
      understanding, as determined by me, another fool
      with an opinion.

      > But bash away, you're on armoured ground.
      > What can't be proved, cannot be disproved. Welcome to the
      > two-way street.

      I've been here the whole time, Jeffji.

      > Dropping yet another brainiac; Einstein said that we can, "see
      > nothing as a miracle, or we can see everything as a miracle".

      I'm on board! We're all God or none of us are.

      Either way, the extraordinary gives way to the
      truth of the ordinary.

      > Siding with the allopathic arrogance and the psychobabble
      > pablum that prescribes drugs and surgery as exclusive "cures"
      > and bolts the door against the hobgoblins of spirituality,

      That's no side I'm on, Jeffji.

      I respect medical science, but understand that using
      drugs to treat the mind is like polishing a glass lattice
      with a hammer. But in many cases, it's the only resolution
      to the problem of biological imbalance.

      Swami Datta may be a different case. Your objection
      does remind me that my anger at the preposterous notion
      that he is God sometimes gets the better of me.

      > may keep you comfortably close to concrete "reality", but do
      > you really know (supernaturally) that gurus are bogus,

      Er..., Jeffji? Where are you getting this "gurus
      are bogus" line? It's a "what some gurus teach by
      word and example line."

      > and miracles are merely mindbenders,

      Happy coincidences. Grace to the grateful
      among us.

      > and transmission of an (supposed,
      > of course)enlightened one's "heat" is just so much trash talk?

      It's more like a misconception of the mechanism.

      > Did you achieve some elevated or altered state of consciousness
      > that made you privy to this Knowledge of Wackadoodle-Dandiness?

      Not really. Just an understanding that what makes
      each of us God makes all of us God, and nobody has
      it a single bit more than anyone else.

      > Enjoy the holidays.
      >
      > Enjoying life,
      >
      > Jeff

      I'm right there with 'ya!

      --jody.
    • Jeff Belyea
      Jodyji - Thanks for the gracious (as always) response. And a bow to your ability to withstand a few slings and arrows without feeling too personally barbed.
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 30, 2005
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        Jodyji -

        Thanks for the gracious (as always)
        response. And a bow to your ability
        to withstand a few slings and arrows
        without feeling too personally barbed.

        You and I have enough history for
        me to know that you know that I enjoy
        stirring some dialogue - always toward
        clarity, at least in my "ideal"
        consciousness, and never meant as
        rhetorical meanness.

        We certainly agree that no one person
        is more or less divine than another.
        The great disservice of the organized
        religions and cults (a lot of overlap
        in those two descriptors) is that the
        fundamentalists insist on the exclusive
        divinity of their cental figure.

        For example; the great, beautiful, wise
        and poetic teachings of Jesus (just that
        name costs us a few readers right here)
        are all but lost to the recovering or
        sheepish (emotional, charasmatic even,
        but sheepishly obdient to imposed church
        superstition)Christian, and onlookers
        from other religions and spiritual
        traditions, who see Christians as
        self-righteous, judgmental and
        sprinkled heavily with the wacko
        spice to which you are especially
        "allergic". This all due to the need
        to separate Jesus as "more" God-
        indwelling than the rest of us.
        That was not his message. (OK,
        off the soapbox)...

        Given that agreement that no one
        is one bit more or less God than
        anyone else, there still remains
        the matter of those who are "awakened"
        to their own divinity (or ordinariness or
        ordinary divinity)and have moved from
        the "love of power" to the "power of love",
        and a more global consciousness that
        embraces all people, prey and predators,
        pebbles and ecosystems as interdependent
        and "worthy" of worship (worthship).

        If we are to evolve (and all awakened
        ones intuitively sense that evolution
        of awakened consciousness to the truth
        of nonduality, the true power of love,
        and the "fullness of joy" that we are
        hardwired to experience as our default
        position - as opposed to the quiet
        desperation that shackles so many
        in this age of global communication -
        is the destiny of humankind...if
        we don't blow up the planet first),
        we will need the voices and passion
        of awakened ones to point the way,
        through some paradigm that can, at
        some point, be collectively grasped
        by the coming citizen of the world
        (Osho's New Man).

        I don't think that we can indisciminately
        discredit all who speak up with what
        I view as "courage" to speak to this
        awakening. There just may be a few
        good, well-intentioned gurus out there,
        Jodyji.

        Always in Love,

        Jeff


        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
        <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
        > <jeff@m...> wrote:
        > >
        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
        > > <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
        > > > <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > [snip]
        > > >
        > > > > Moreover the Lord in human form always hesitates to
        > > > > perform the miracles
        > > >
        > > > Because he can't! He's a wackadoodle-dandy who needs
        > > > to be on medication.> >
        > >
        > > According to Jung, young Jody, what you persistently pass off
        > > as objective truths are only your own subjective projections.
        >
        > There's nothing else but, Jeffji.
        >
        > > Bashing away at guru marketing with the trouncing tenacity
        > > of a rivet gun, and even putting together Jody's Book of Offical
        > > Discreditation, is without foundation other than your personal
        > > pit-bull positioning.
        >
        > It's not guru marketing that I'm bashing, it's the
        > idea that anyone is anymore God than anyone else.
        > As well as those who spread myth rather than
        > understanding, as determined by me, another fool
        > with an opinion.
        >
        > > But bash away, you're on armoured ground.
        > > What can't be proved, cannot be disproved. Welcome to the
        > > two-way street.
        >
        > I've been here the whole time, Jeffji.
        >
        > > Dropping yet another brainiac; Einstein said that we can, "see
        > > nothing as a miracle, or we can see everything as a miracle".
        >
        > I'm on board! We're all God or none of us are.
        >
        > Either way, the extraordinary gives way to the
        > truth of the ordinary.
        >
        > > Siding with the allopathic arrogance and the psychobabble
        > > pablum that prescribes drugs and surgery as exclusive "cures"
        > > and bolts the door against the hobgoblins of spirituality,
        >
        > That's no side I'm on, Jeffji.
        >
        > I respect medical science, but understand that using
        > drugs to treat the mind is like polishing a glass lattice
        > with a hammer. But in many cases, it's the only resolution
        > to the problem of biological imbalance.
        >
        > Swami Datta may be a different case. Your objection
        > does remind me that my anger at the preposterous notion
        > that he is God sometimes gets the better of me.
        >
        > > may keep you comfortably close to concrete "reality", but do
        > > you really know (supernaturally) that gurus are bogus,
        >
        > Er..., Jeffji? Where are you getting this "gurus
        > are bogus" line? It's a "what some gurus teach by
        > word and example line."
        >
        > > and miracles are merely mindbenders,
        >
        > Happy coincidences. Grace to the grateful
        > among us.
        >
        > > and transmission of an (supposed,
        > > of course)enlightened one's "heat" is just so much trash talk?
        >
        > It's more like a misconception of the mechanism.
        >
        > > Did you achieve some elevated or altered state of consciousness
        > > that made you privy to this Knowledge of Wackadoodle-Dandiness?
        >
        > Not really. Just an understanding that what makes
        > each of us God makes all of us God, and nobody has
        > it a single bit more than anyone else.
        >
        > > Enjoy the holidays.
        > >
        > > Enjoying life,
        > >
        > > Jeff
        >
        > I'm right there with 'ya!
        >
        > --jody.
        >
      • jodyrrr
        ... wrote: [snip] ... Nor do I. However, a clear, discriminating intellect, the tool of awakening, sometimes needs to be employed for the sake of
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 30, 2005
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          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
          <jeff@m...> wrote:

          [snip]

          > I don't think that we can indisciminately
          > discredit all who speak up with what
          > I view as "courage" to speak to this
          > awakening.

          Nor do I.

          However, a clear, discriminating intellect,
          the tool of awakening, sometimes needs to
          be employed for the sake of clarity.

          In the case of Swami Datta, all he is offering
          is his self-deluded status as God on Earth.

          If awakening is to bring about further evolution
          on the planet, we will need to evolve toward
          a democratization of awakening rather than
          a centralization of it in the hands of a few.

          Datta claims only he can bring one to greater
          understanding. This is clearly the work of an
          ego looking to be aggrandized.

          I admit I can be sharp about it. I suppose I
          shouldn't take it personally. But if the Dattas
          of the world come to represent what self-realization
          is, there's not much hope for the sane folks
          who don't buy into mythological nonsense these
          false gurus so desperately cling to.

          To truly make awakening available to everyone,
          it must be divorced from the fantasy and fairy
          tales which are stuck to it like barnacles.

          Datta's contentions about himself are anathema
          to clarity, in my opinion. He and those like him
          need to be scraped off the side of the boat.

          > There just may be a few
          > good, well-intentioned gurus out there,
          > Jodyji.

          There's many. I've written about a few and I look
          forward to writing about many more. But folks need
          to know the difference between good and bad, so
          showing them bad will hopefully help them to learn
          to determine the good.

          > Always in Love,
          >
          > Jeff

          I appreciate the dialogue.

          --jody.
        • prakki surya
          If the aim of joining in discussion forums is to fight, then better join hands with such people and can continue activities at such places. No trace of
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 30, 2005
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            If the aim of joining in discussion forums is to fight, then better join hands with such people and can continue activities at such places.
             
            No trace of interest in pursuing truth and fighting in different groups with different people without any trace of inquisitiveness to learn.
             
            everywhere make personal attack without any iota of attack on concept and run from pillar to post.
            surya

            jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
            <jeff@m...> wrote:

            [snip]

            > I don't think that we can indisciminately
            > discredit all who speak up with what
            > I view as "courage" to speak to this
            > awakening.

            Nor do I.

            However, a clear, discriminating intellect,
            the tool of awakening, sometimes needs to
            be employed for the sake of clarity.

            In the case of Swami Datta, all he is offering
            is his self-deluded status as God on Earth.

            If awakening is to bring about further evolution
            on the planet, we will need to evolve toward
            a democratization of awakening rather than
            a centralization of it in the hands of a few.

            Datta claims only he can bring one to greater
            understanding.  This is clearly the work of an
            ego looking to be aggrandized.

            I admit I can be sharp about it.  I suppose I
            shouldn't take it personally.  But if the Dattas
            of the world come to represent what self-realization
            is, there's not much hope for the sane folks
            who don't buy into mythological nonsense these
            false gurus so desperately cling to.

            To truly make awakening available to everyone,
            it must be divorced from the fantasy and fairy
            tales which are stuck to it like barnacles.

            Datta's contentions about himself are anathema
            to clarity, in my opinion.  He and those like him
            need to be scraped off the side of the boat.

            > There just may be a few
            > good, well-intentioned gurus out there,
            > Jodyji.

            There's many.  I've written about a few and I look
            forward to writing about many more.  But folks need
            to know the difference between good and bad, so
            showing them bad will hopefully help them to learn
            to determine the good.

            > Always in Love,
            >
            > Jeff

            I appreciate the dialogue.

            --jody.





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          • jodyrrr
            ... This is a new development! You are actually talking to us rather than at us! The aim of discussion groups is to discuss. You present yourself as God on
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 30, 2005
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              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
              <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
              >
              > If the aim of joining in discussion forums is to fight,
              > then better join hands with such people and can continue
              > activities at such places.

              This is a new development! You are actually talking
              to us rather than at us!

              The aim of discussion groups is to discuss. You
              present yourself as God on Earth over and above
              the rest of us, so we discuss.

              > No trace of interest in pursuing truth and fighting
              > in different groups with different people without
              > any trace of inquisitiveness to learn.

              We are pursing truth. The truth is that you are no
              more God than my dog. Nobody is. What we are learning
              from you is that some people are locked into delusions
              so fixed that they can't see how utterly ridiculous
              they are looking to others.

              > everywhere make personal attack without any iota
              > of attack on concept and run from pillar to post.
              >
              > surya

              Your whole concept is all about you. All you talk
              about are your delusions of grandeur. Of course you
              will see it as a personal attack. You are saying
              nothing except "I am the satguru and you must go
              only through me." You may as well be saying you
              are Jesus Christ. Oh wait.... You already did on
              your website with that picture depicting yourself
              as Christ:

              http://www.universal-spirituality.org/

              What more could be said about that?

              --jody.


              >
              > jodyrrr <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
              > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
              > <jeff@m...> wrote:
              >
              > [snip]
              >
              > > I don't think that we can indisciminately
              > > discredit all who speak up with what
              > > I view as "courage" to speak to this
              > > awakening.
              >
              > Nor do I.
              >
              > However, a clear, discriminating intellect,
              > the tool of awakening, sometimes needs to
              > be employed for the sake of clarity.
              >
              > In the case of Swami Datta, all he is offering
              > is his self-deluded status as God on Earth.
              >
              > If awakening is to bring about further evolution
              > on the planet, we will need to evolve toward
              > a democratization of awakening rather than
              > a centralization of it in the hands of a few.
              >
              > Datta claims only he can bring one to greater
              > understanding. This is clearly the work of an
              > ego looking to be aggrandized.
              >
              > I admit I can be sharp about it. I suppose I
              > shouldn't take it personally. But if the Dattas
              > of the world come to represent what self-realization
              > is, there's not much hope for the sane folks
              > who don't buy into mythological nonsense these
              > false gurus so desperately cling to.
              >
              > To truly make awakening available to everyone,
              > it must be divorced from the fantasy and fairy
              > tales which are stuck to it like barnacles.
              >
              > Datta's contentions about himself are anathema
              > to clarity, in my opinion. He and those like him
              > need to be scraped off the side of the boat.
              >
              > > There just may be a few
              > > good, well-intentioned gurus out there,
              > > Jodyji.
              >
              > There's many. I've written about a few and I look
              > forward to writing about many more. But folks need
              > to know the difference between good and bad, so
              > showing them bad will hopefully help them to learn
              > to determine the good.
              >
              > > Always in Love,
              > >
              > > Jeff
              >
              > I appreciate the dialogue.
              >
              > --jody.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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