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Re: Identity mark of the skeptic

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  • Jeff Belyea
    ... According to Jung, young Jody, what you persistently pass off as objective truths are only your own subjective projections. Bashing away at guru marketing
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 29, 2005
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
      <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
      > <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
      >
      > [snip]
      >
      > > Moreover the Lord in human form always hesitates to
      > > perform the miracles
      >
      > Because he can't! He's a wackadoodle-dandy who needs
      > to be on medication.
      >

      According to Jung, young Jody, what you persistently pass off
      as objective truths are only your own subjective projections.
      Bashing away at guru marketing with the trouncing tenacity
      of a rivet gun, and even putting together Jody's Book of Offical
      Discreditation, is without foundation other than your personal
      pit-bull positioning. But bash away, you're on armoured ground.
      What can't be proved, cannot be disproved. Welcome to the
      two-way street.

      Dropping yet another brainiac; Einstein said that we can, "see
      nothing as a miracle, or we can see everything as a miracle".

      Siding with the allopathic arrogance and the psychobabble
      pablum that prescribes drugs and surgery as exclusive "cures"
      and bolts the door against the hobgoblins of spirituality,
      may keep you comfortably close to concrete "reality", but do
      you really know (supernaturally) that gurus are bogus, and
      miracles are merely mindbenders, and transmission of an (supposed,
      of course)enlightened one's "heat" is just so much trash talk?
      Did you achieve some elevated or altered state of consciousness
      that made you privy to this Knowledge of Wackadoodle-Dandiness?

      Enjoy the holidays.

      Enjoying life,

      Jeff
    • jodyrrr
      ... There s nothing else but, Jeffji. ... It s not guru marketing that I m bashing, it s the idea that anyone is anymore God than anyone else. As well as those
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 29, 2005
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
        <jeff@m...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
        > <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
        > >
        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
        > > <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
        > >
        > > [snip]
        > >
        > > > Moreover the Lord in human form always hesitates to
        > > > perform the miracles
        > >
        > > Because he can't! He's a wackadoodle-dandy who needs
        > > to be on medication.> >
        >
        > According to Jung, young Jody, what you persistently pass off
        > as objective truths are only your own subjective projections.

        There's nothing else but, Jeffji.

        > Bashing away at guru marketing with the trouncing tenacity
        > of a rivet gun, and even putting together Jody's Book of Offical
        > Discreditation, is without foundation other than your personal
        > pit-bull positioning.

        It's not guru marketing that I'm bashing, it's the
        idea that anyone is anymore God than anyone else.
        As well as those who spread myth rather than
        understanding, as determined by me, another fool
        with an opinion.

        > But bash away, you're on armoured ground.
        > What can't be proved, cannot be disproved. Welcome to the
        > two-way street.

        I've been here the whole time, Jeffji.

        > Dropping yet another brainiac; Einstein said that we can, "see
        > nothing as a miracle, or we can see everything as a miracle".

        I'm on board! We're all God or none of us are.

        Either way, the extraordinary gives way to the
        truth of the ordinary.

        > Siding with the allopathic arrogance and the psychobabble
        > pablum that prescribes drugs and surgery as exclusive "cures"
        > and bolts the door against the hobgoblins of spirituality,

        That's no side I'm on, Jeffji.

        I respect medical science, but understand that using
        drugs to treat the mind is like polishing a glass lattice
        with a hammer. But in many cases, it's the only resolution
        to the problem of biological imbalance.

        Swami Datta may be a different case. Your objection
        does remind me that my anger at the preposterous notion
        that he is God sometimes gets the better of me.

        > may keep you comfortably close to concrete "reality", but do
        > you really know (supernaturally) that gurus are bogus,

        Er..., Jeffji? Where are you getting this "gurus
        are bogus" line? It's a "what some gurus teach by
        word and example line."

        > and miracles are merely mindbenders,

        Happy coincidences. Grace to the grateful
        among us.

        > and transmission of an (supposed,
        > of course)enlightened one's "heat" is just so much trash talk?

        It's more like a misconception of the mechanism.

        > Did you achieve some elevated or altered state of consciousness
        > that made you privy to this Knowledge of Wackadoodle-Dandiness?

        Not really. Just an understanding that what makes
        each of us God makes all of us God, and nobody has
        it a single bit more than anyone else.

        > Enjoy the holidays.
        >
        > Enjoying life,
        >
        > Jeff

        I'm right there with 'ya!

        --jody.
      • Jeff Belyea
        Jodyji - Thanks for the gracious (as always) response. And a bow to your ability to withstand a few slings and arrows without feeling too personally barbed.
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 30, 2005
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          Jodyji -

          Thanks for the gracious (as always)
          response. And a bow to your ability
          to withstand a few slings and arrows
          without feeling too personally barbed.

          You and I have enough history for
          me to know that you know that I enjoy
          stirring some dialogue - always toward
          clarity, at least in my "ideal"
          consciousness, and never meant as
          rhetorical meanness.

          We certainly agree that no one person
          is more or less divine than another.
          The great disservice of the organized
          religions and cults (a lot of overlap
          in those two descriptors) is that the
          fundamentalists insist on the exclusive
          divinity of their cental figure.

          For example; the great, beautiful, wise
          and poetic teachings of Jesus (just that
          name costs us a few readers right here)
          are all but lost to the recovering or
          sheepish (emotional, charasmatic even,
          but sheepishly obdient to imposed church
          superstition)Christian, and onlookers
          from other religions and spiritual
          traditions, who see Christians as
          self-righteous, judgmental and
          sprinkled heavily with the wacko
          spice to which you are especially
          "allergic". This all due to the need
          to separate Jesus as "more" God-
          indwelling than the rest of us.
          That was not his message. (OK,
          off the soapbox)...

          Given that agreement that no one
          is one bit more or less God than
          anyone else, there still remains
          the matter of those who are "awakened"
          to their own divinity (or ordinariness or
          ordinary divinity)and have moved from
          the "love of power" to the "power of love",
          and a more global consciousness that
          embraces all people, prey and predators,
          pebbles and ecosystems as interdependent
          and "worthy" of worship (worthship).

          If we are to evolve (and all awakened
          ones intuitively sense that evolution
          of awakened consciousness to the truth
          of nonduality, the true power of love,
          and the "fullness of joy" that we are
          hardwired to experience as our default
          position - as opposed to the quiet
          desperation that shackles so many
          in this age of global communication -
          is the destiny of humankind...if
          we don't blow up the planet first),
          we will need the voices and passion
          of awakened ones to point the way,
          through some paradigm that can, at
          some point, be collectively grasped
          by the coming citizen of the world
          (Osho's New Man).

          I don't think that we can indisciminately
          discredit all who speak up with what
          I view as "courage" to speak to this
          awakening. There just may be a few
          good, well-intentioned gurus out there,
          Jodyji.

          Always in Love,

          Jeff


          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
          <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
          > <jeff@m...> wrote:
          > >
          > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
          > > <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
          > > > <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > [snip]
          > > >
          > > > > Moreover the Lord in human form always hesitates to
          > > > > perform the miracles
          > > >
          > > > Because he can't! He's a wackadoodle-dandy who needs
          > > > to be on medication.> >
          > >
          > > According to Jung, young Jody, what you persistently pass off
          > > as objective truths are only your own subjective projections.
          >
          > There's nothing else but, Jeffji.
          >
          > > Bashing away at guru marketing with the trouncing tenacity
          > > of a rivet gun, and even putting together Jody's Book of Offical
          > > Discreditation, is without foundation other than your personal
          > > pit-bull positioning.
          >
          > It's not guru marketing that I'm bashing, it's the
          > idea that anyone is anymore God than anyone else.
          > As well as those who spread myth rather than
          > understanding, as determined by me, another fool
          > with an opinion.
          >
          > > But bash away, you're on armoured ground.
          > > What can't be proved, cannot be disproved. Welcome to the
          > > two-way street.
          >
          > I've been here the whole time, Jeffji.
          >
          > > Dropping yet another brainiac; Einstein said that we can, "see
          > > nothing as a miracle, or we can see everything as a miracle".
          >
          > I'm on board! We're all God or none of us are.
          >
          > Either way, the extraordinary gives way to the
          > truth of the ordinary.
          >
          > > Siding with the allopathic arrogance and the psychobabble
          > > pablum that prescribes drugs and surgery as exclusive "cures"
          > > and bolts the door against the hobgoblins of spirituality,
          >
          > That's no side I'm on, Jeffji.
          >
          > I respect medical science, but understand that using
          > drugs to treat the mind is like polishing a glass lattice
          > with a hammer. But in many cases, it's the only resolution
          > to the problem of biological imbalance.
          >
          > Swami Datta may be a different case. Your objection
          > does remind me that my anger at the preposterous notion
          > that he is God sometimes gets the better of me.
          >
          > > may keep you comfortably close to concrete "reality", but do
          > > you really know (supernaturally) that gurus are bogus,
          >
          > Er..., Jeffji? Where are you getting this "gurus
          > are bogus" line? It's a "what some gurus teach by
          > word and example line."
          >
          > > and miracles are merely mindbenders,
          >
          > Happy coincidences. Grace to the grateful
          > among us.
          >
          > > and transmission of an (supposed,
          > > of course)enlightened one's "heat" is just so much trash talk?
          >
          > It's more like a misconception of the mechanism.
          >
          > > Did you achieve some elevated or altered state of consciousness
          > > that made you privy to this Knowledge of Wackadoodle-Dandiness?
          >
          > Not really. Just an understanding that what makes
          > each of us God makes all of us God, and nobody has
          > it a single bit more than anyone else.
          >
          > > Enjoy the holidays.
          > >
          > > Enjoying life,
          > >
          > > Jeff
          >
          > I'm right there with 'ya!
          >
          > --jody.
          >
        • jodyrrr
          ... wrote: [snip] ... Nor do I. However, a clear, discriminating intellect, the tool of awakening, sometimes needs to be employed for the sake of
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 30, 2005
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
            <jeff@m...> wrote:

            [snip]

            > I don't think that we can indisciminately
            > discredit all who speak up with what
            > I view as "courage" to speak to this
            > awakening.

            Nor do I.

            However, a clear, discriminating intellect,
            the tool of awakening, sometimes needs to
            be employed for the sake of clarity.

            In the case of Swami Datta, all he is offering
            is his self-deluded status as God on Earth.

            If awakening is to bring about further evolution
            on the planet, we will need to evolve toward
            a democratization of awakening rather than
            a centralization of it in the hands of a few.

            Datta claims only he can bring one to greater
            understanding. This is clearly the work of an
            ego looking to be aggrandized.

            I admit I can be sharp about it. I suppose I
            shouldn't take it personally. But if the Dattas
            of the world come to represent what self-realization
            is, there's not much hope for the sane folks
            who don't buy into mythological nonsense these
            false gurus so desperately cling to.

            To truly make awakening available to everyone,
            it must be divorced from the fantasy and fairy
            tales which are stuck to it like barnacles.

            Datta's contentions about himself are anathema
            to clarity, in my opinion. He and those like him
            need to be scraped off the side of the boat.

            > There just may be a few
            > good, well-intentioned gurus out there,
            > Jodyji.

            There's many. I've written about a few and I look
            forward to writing about many more. But folks need
            to know the difference between good and bad, so
            showing them bad will hopefully help them to learn
            to determine the good.

            > Always in Love,
            >
            > Jeff

            I appreciate the dialogue.

            --jody.
          • prakki surya
            If the aim of joining in discussion forums is to fight, then better join hands with such people and can continue activities at such places. No trace of
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 30, 2005
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              If the aim of joining in discussion forums is to fight, then better join hands with such people and can continue activities at such places.
               
              No trace of interest in pursuing truth and fighting in different groups with different people without any trace of inquisitiveness to learn.
               
              everywhere make personal attack without any iota of attack on concept and run from pillar to post.
              surya

              jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
              <jeff@m...> wrote:

              [snip]

              > I don't think that we can indisciminately
              > discredit all who speak up with what
              > I view as "courage" to speak to this
              > awakening.

              Nor do I.

              However, a clear, discriminating intellect,
              the tool of awakening, sometimes needs to
              be employed for the sake of clarity.

              In the case of Swami Datta, all he is offering
              is his self-deluded status as God on Earth.

              If awakening is to bring about further evolution
              on the planet, we will need to evolve toward
              a democratization of awakening rather than
              a centralization of it in the hands of a few.

              Datta claims only he can bring one to greater
              understanding.  This is clearly the work of an
              ego looking to be aggrandized.

              I admit I can be sharp about it.  I suppose I
              shouldn't take it personally.  But if the Dattas
              of the world come to represent what self-realization
              is, there's not much hope for the sane folks
              who don't buy into mythological nonsense these
              false gurus so desperately cling to.

              To truly make awakening available to everyone,
              it must be divorced from the fantasy and fairy
              tales which are stuck to it like barnacles.

              Datta's contentions about himself are anathema
              to clarity, in my opinion.  He and those like him
              need to be scraped off the side of the boat.

              > There just may be a few
              > good, well-intentioned gurus out there,
              > Jodyji.

              There's many.  I've written about a few and I look
              forward to writing about many more.  But folks need
              to know the difference between good and bad, so
              showing them bad will hopefully help them to learn
              to determine the good.

              > Always in Love,
              >
              > Jeff

              I appreciate the dialogue.

              --jody.





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            • jodyrrr
              ... This is a new development! You are actually talking to us rather than at us! The aim of discussion groups is to discuss. You present yourself as God on
              Message 6 of 8 , Dec 30, 2005
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                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
                >
                > If the aim of joining in discussion forums is to fight,
                > then better join hands with such people and can continue
                > activities at such places.

                This is a new development! You are actually talking
                to us rather than at us!

                The aim of discussion groups is to discuss. You
                present yourself as God on Earth over and above
                the rest of us, so we discuss.

                > No trace of interest in pursuing truth and fighting
                > in different groups with different people without
                > any trace of inquisitiveness to learn.

                We are pursing truth. The truth is that you are no
                more God than my dog. Nobody is. What we are learning
                from you is that some people are locked into delusions
                so fixed that they can't see how utterly ridiculous
                they are looking to others.

                > everywhere make personal attack without any iota
                > of attack on concept and run from pillar to post.
                >
                > surya

                Your whole concept is all about you. All you talk
                about are your delusions of grandeur. Of course you
                will see it as a personal attack. You are saying
                nothing except "I am the satguru and you must go
                only through me." You may as well be saying you
                are Jesus Christ. Oh wait.... You already did on
                your website with that picture depicting yourself
                as Christ:

                http://www.universal-spirituality.org/

                What more could be said about that?

                --jody.


                >
                > jodyrrr <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
                > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
                > <jeff@m...> wrote:
                >
                > [snip]
                >
                > > I don't think that we can indisciminately
                > > discredit all who speak up with what
                > > I view as "courage" to speak to this
                > > awakening.
                >
                > Nor do I.
                >
                > However, a clear, discriminating intellect,
                > the tool of awakening, sometimes needs to
                > be employed for the sake of clarity.
                >
                > In the case of Swami Datta, all he is offering
                > is his self-deluded status as God on Earth.
                >
                > If awakening is to bring about further evolution
                > on the planet, we will need to evolve toward
                > a democratization of awakening rather than
                > a centralization of it in the hands of a few.
                >
                > Datta claims only he can bring one to greater
                > understanding. This is clearly the work of an
                > ego looking to be aggrandized.
                >
                > I admit I can be sharp about it. I suppose I
                > shouldn't take it personally. But if the Dattas
                > of the world come to represent what self-realization
                > is, there's not much hope for the sane folks
                > who don't buy into mythological nonsense these
                > false gurus so desperately cling to.
                >
                > To truly make awakening available to everyone,
                > it must be divorced from the fantasy and fairy
                > tales which are stuck to it like barnacles.
                >
                > Datta's contentions about himself are anathema
                > to clarity, in my opinion. He and those like him
                > need to be scraped off the side of the boat.
                >
                > > There just may be a few
                > > good, well-intentioned gurus out there,
                > > Jodyji.
                >
                > There's many. I've written about a few and I look
                > forward to writing about many more. But folks need
                > to know the difference between good and bad, so
                > showing them bad will hopefully help them to learn
                > to determine the good.
                >
                > > Always in Love,
                > >
                > > Jeff
                >
                > I appreciate the dialogue.
                >
                > --jody.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
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