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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Satguru, defend thyself!

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  • jodyrrr
    ... wrote: [snop] ... Bring it on, you psychotically grandiose nincompoop. If you are God, smite me where I stand, because I am utterly
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 19, 2005
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
      <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

      [snop]

      > All the power of God is present in such human incarnation,
      > because God and His power are beyond the spatial dimensions.

      Bring it on, you psychotically grandiose nincompoop.
      If you are God, smite me where I stand, because I am
      utterly opposed to the deluded nonsense you are spewing
      like vomit around here.
    • prakki surya
      Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami Q) Was the Lord not satisfied with Himself that He started this dolls-play of creation with animals, plants and
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 19, 2005
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        Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami
         

        Q) Was the Lord not satisfied with Himself that He started this dolls-play of creation with animals, plants and humans? For the Lord it is a game to engage souls in deeds and then clear their sins (or good deeds). If He has set the rules of the game and He has predetermined how much sin of each soul to clear in one birth, then does the soul have no independent will and freedom of choice? Should we just do our duty as told in the Gita and not worry about steering our own lives as we see fit?

         

        Infact the Lord is satisfied by Himself as said in the Brahma Sutra (Lokavattu Leela Kaivalyam). The Lord gets satisfaction when His devotee gets satisfied. The essential aim of this creation for the God is only the sweetness of love. The Lord enjoys the sweetness in the love of His devotees to Him. The Devotees enjoy the same sweetness of love of God to them. Therefore, the devotees who are satisfied with such sweet love will not put this question. Only the devotees who could not get such love which flows to both sides are subjected to this question. Such devotees love these unreal bonds in this world.
         
        They do not get satisfaction because when such love is analyzed, the inner selfishness comes out. When the essence of such love is realized, this question comes to the mind and the creation looks waste. They have seen only the false love of the world but have not seen the true love of God. If they enter the spiritual line and experience the true love of the Lord, they will certainly find the necessity of this wonderful creation. Without this creation the existence of such divine love is not possible. Therefore, on realizing the false love in this world one has to turn towards God to experience the real love. When they experience the divine love they will appreciate the Creator, the Creation and the aim of the Creation. Thus the game, which is the aim of the Creation, is not just for the selfish satisfaction of the Lord. In fact the divine love is more enjoyed by the soul than the Lord. The reason is that the Lord Himself is an infinite ocean of bliss and does not require any more enjoyment.
         
        It is actually the soul, which is an infinite ocean of worry and misery enjoys the divine love, which contains bliss. Sri Rama Krishna Paramahamsa told that He likes to be the ant to enjoy the sugar than to be the sugar itself. The ant, which is not sugar, enjoys more the sugar. The sugar being itself the sugar cannot enjoy the sweetness. In fact even the Lord imposes ignorance on Him and becomes an ordinary soul to enjoy really this sweetness of divine love. Hanuman was the incarnation of the Lord Shiva. He cannot enjoy the divine love of the Lord to a devotee. Therefore, He imposed ignorance on Himself and became a devotee. Hanuman enjoyed the divine love of the Lord Rama more than Rama Himself. Infact Rama also could enjoy the divine love by imposing self-ignorance and by acting as an ordinary human being. Therefore, this game is more meaningful for the sake of the souls than the Lord Himself. The Lord transfers the evil results of such real devotees to Himself and enjoys actually the misery. By this the devotee enjoys permanent happiness. Therefore, this game of the world is finally resulting in the permanent happiness of devotees (souls) only and not for the enjoyment of the Lord.
         
        The rules of the game are well defined. Violation is not possible as long as you are in the field of Pravrutti. Even in Pravrutti if you accept and surrender to Lord unlike the atheist, some concession is given as the rearrangement of the results i.e., postponing and pre-poning. Since, the interest is increased and decreased respectively, the concession is not beyond the rules of justice. When the person to whom you have to pay the loan comes to you, he may postpone the payment on your request but will not cancel the interest. But in the Nivrutti the loan and the interest is cancelled. But the Lord pays all that for your sake. The main purpose of the human incarnation is only this. Through human body, He suffers as you suffer. He will not avoid suffering using His super power because it will be again cheating the justice.
         
        Thus, the rules of the game, which are called, as the administration of justice is never violated either in Pravrutti or Nivrutti. But you have the full freedom in the game to win or to be defeated. The rules will not affect your chances of either success or defeat. You have to play the game following rules. Sometimes the rules may help you to succeed. When the soul with its subtle body returns to the earth with a gross body as a baby, the subtle body contains very little remains of the original qualities. In the hell the intensity of these qualities is very much reduced. The remains of these qualities are called as Karma Sesha (Remains of deeds). Actually it is Samskara Sesha (Remains of qualities). People misunderstand at this point and think that the subtle body is associated with the remains of the deeds. The deed is inert and cannot be present in the life energy (Subtle body). Only a quality, which is a wave of the life energy, can remain in the subtle body. When a thief was beaten in the police station and is left, he comes out with reduced intensity in his quality of steeling. The deed of steeling does not remain with the thief. It is this remainder of quality that generates its corresponding deed of steeling. The remaining quality of steeling grows in the encouraging atmosphere and generates the deed of steeling. Now you are caught and again punished. For the second punishment, which is the cause? The root cause is only the remaining quality of steeling. Thus, you are said that you are undergoing the result of the past deed. The word "Past deed" means the past remaining quality only. If that past remaining quality is destroyed, there is no second punishment. How to destroy the quality? The quality is made of life energy and is constituted by wrong knowledge. Therefore, only the right divine knowledge can destroy the quality. If the qualities are destroyed by the divine knowledge the deeds are destroyed. This is said in Gita, "Jnanagnih Sarva Karmani …..", which means that divine knowledge can destroy all the deeds. What is this divine knowledge? It is the knowledge of the Lord, your self and path to attain Him and please Him. If He is pleased, He will give you the divine knowledge and all the deeds are burnt. If you are unable to use the knowledge fully and if some deeds are still left over due to your improper assimilation of knowledge, the Lord will burn those deeds also by suffering with those results. The Lord clearly stated in Gita that the divine knowledge alone could relieve you from all the sins. Once you are determined due to the divine knowledge you will practice it without any doubt. The result of that is the full grace of the Lord.
         
        The divine knowledge consists of two parts 1) If you are in Pravrutti (path of justice) only, you can attain your self by the self-realization. In this you will be fixed in the self and get detached from the both subtle and gross bodies. By this all the bonds related to gross body and related to feelings (Subtle body) are cut off and you will attain the eternal peace. All your worries, anxiety, tensions, misery, mental pain, dissatisfaction, confusion etc., will disappear forever. You will live with perfect peace through out your life. Peace is your property, which is the characteristic of your soul. You have to think that you are the pure awareness, which is stand still (called as Atman or soul). When you are attached to the gross body or subtle body (Mind), you have lost the peace. If you are attached to the casual body (soul), you have gained your lost peace.
         
        2) In Nivrutti (path of liberation) you attain the Lord who has come in the human form for your sake to give the bliss. Bliss is only the characteristic of Lord as said in Veda (Anando Brahma……). Veda also says that the Lord alone can give bliss to the soul (Eshahyeva Anandayati……). Bliss is not characteristic of the soul. Your property is only the golden chain and not the diamond necklace. You should not think that peace is bliss. By your effort you can attain only peace but not the bliss. You can get the bliss only by nearing yourself to Sadguru who is the human incarnation. You can get the cool breeze when you are near the sea on the shore. If you are in the house, you have avoided the hot sun. By attaining the soul you have come to zero from minus, but that is not plus. Zero is within yourself and bliss is from external agency. When you have attained what you have, it is avoiding loss, which can give only peace but not the bliss.
         
        Thus, the divine knowledge of Sadguru gives you atleast peace, which is the earth, if not the bliss, which is the sky. He will give you the knowledge of Atman to give peace. This is essential requirement for anyone in this world. A few blessed people can also get the bliss if they realise that the Sadguru is the Lord Himself. Therefore, you must utilise the full freedom given to you in this human birth and you must destroy all your sins permanently through Nivrutti only. You should be very active to use this unlimited freedom within the limited span of lifetime. When you leave this gross body and go to upper worlds you have no freedom at all and those upper worlds hence are called as " Bhoga Loka" which mean that they are the worlds in which the results are to be enjoyed without any freedom. This earth is called as "Karma Loka" which means the world in which you are given full freedom to do anything. You are given the opportunity to receive the divine knowledge here and if you practice it by determination, your entire fate is changed here and there also.
         
        The sages did long penance and sat in the process of self-realization for several ages. They obtained peace of the self but not bliss of the Brahman. Then they realized and approached Lord Krishna as Gopikas for the bliss, which they got in Brindavanam in the vicinity of the Lord (Sayujyam). You can smile or laugh with bliss only by attaining the Lord in human form. You can get atleast a shadow of the bliss by remembering the Lord. But without any external agency you cannot get happiness or bliss. If you are peaceful and silent, no body will ask you the reason but if you are laughing and dancing in bliss stating that there is no external reason for it, it is unnatural and people will admit you in the mental hospital.
         
          posted by: His servant
          at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
          www.universal-spirituality.org

        jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya<dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

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      • jodyrrr
        ... wrote: [snip] Another gratuitous expression of inflated nonsense and another cowardly act and failure to fill the shoes of those who
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 19, 2005
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          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
          <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

          [snip]

          Another gratuitous expression of inflated nonsense and
          another cowardly act and failure to fill the shoes of
          those who have been called satgurus.
        • prakki surya
          Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami For a soul, this world is real and is called as Maya or Vikshepa. The world is the imagination of the Lord but
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 20, 2005
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            Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami
             
            For a soul, this world is real and is called as Maya or Vikshepa. The world is the imagination of the Lord but it is real for all the souls.  The world is not the imagination of the soul.  The imagination of the soul is dream, which is called as Avidya or Avaranam. The Vikshepa and avaranam are made of ignorance.  But the former ignorance is apparent only and the Lord has full awareness during the ignorance.  It is called as “Saatvika Maya” which means the ignorance illuminated with knowledge. It is just like a daydream of a dreamer who is in fully awakened state.  The Avaranam has no knowledge and is deep ignorance only.  It is like a night dream.  The Lord is the daydreamer and soul is night dreamer.  The Lord controls the dream and soul is controlled by dream.  The soul can destroy its avidya but can never destroy the Maya.  Avidya is the imagination or feeling of the soul and can disappear by the knowledge. But Maya is the materialised world for the soul and can never disappear. The soul is pure awareness and is called as atman or the causal body. The gross body is made of five elements. Both these bodies are part of Maya and can never be destroyed by the soul.  The pure awareness is eternal.  The five elements of the gross body are also eternal.  The subtle body, which is made of qualities or feelings or imaginations of the soul, can be destroyed by the soul through knowledge.  The subtle body is made of ignorance of the soul and can be destroyed by the scholar. 
             
            After death this subtle body only goes to the other worlds. For a liberated soul, since the subtle body is destroyed, he does not go to the other worlds. The causal body and the gross body merge in the cosmos here it self as said by Veda (Ihaiva Pranah….).  In the case of human incarnation also, same thing happens but the fourth item, the Lord, is left over. The advaita Philosophers should note this difference between Maya and Avidya. Sankara clearly told that the Avaranam disappears by knowledge but not Vikshepa.

            The highest stage is not to aspire anything from the Lord. The Lord does everything according to His judgement and your deeds.  The desire cannot bring any reaction in the Lord.  Some devotees cry with very loud voice and do several actions for help from the Lord.  The cry also will not bring any trace of reaction in the Lord.  Draupadi cried for help from the Lord. The Lord did not react for the cry.  Draupadi tore her sari to apply bandage to the finger of the Lord when it was cut.  It was this deed that made the Lord to help her. The Lord would have helped her even without her cry.  The Lord was watching the situation and was ready for the correct moment to act.  The merit point in the cry of Draupadi was that she believed Lord Krishna as omnipresent and did not confine the Lord to His limited body.  Therefore, she cried in the court itself even though the Lord was in far place. Devotion without any aspiration is the best.  The next middle level devotion is to believe the Lord as omnipresent and pray at any place.  The lower level of devotion is to try to inform the human incarnation personally.  This is an insult to the Lord because you do not believe the Lord in human form as omnipresent atleast. 
             
            If you think that the Lord is not omnipresent how can He help you as omnipotent?  Above all this, the main point is whether the devotee requests or not, the protection from the Lord comes only based on the selfless service offered by him to the Lord without aspiring any fruit in return.  When such service is absent, the Lord cannot do any help merely based on their requests or prayers and crying. Therefore, there is no need of prayer or request or crying to the Lord if the selfless service is absent. There is also no need of prayer or request or crying to the Lord if the selfless service is present. Therefore, a devotee should always concentrate on the selfless service to the Lord without aspiring any fruit in return and the prayer should be only in the praise of the Lord and not for asking any boon or protection because even if you ask there is no trace of any use.
             
              posted by: His servant
              at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
              www.universal-spirituality.org
             

            jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

            Another gratuitous expression of inflated nonsense and
            another cowardly act and failure to fill the shoes of
            those who have been called satgurus.

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          • jodyrrr
            ... wrote: More gratuitous nonsense that s the product of nothing more than an incredibly puffed-up ego.
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 20, 2005
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              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
              <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

              More gratuitous nonsense that's the product of
              nothing more than an incredibly puffed-up ego.
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