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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Spiritual Message of Jesus and Krishna

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  • prakki surya
    Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami --Judas Betrayal Judas betrayed the human incarnation. Judas may be an ordinary human being or may be the
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 10, 2005
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      Judas betrayed the human incarnation. Judas may be an ordinary human being or may be the servant of Lord who belongs to the innermost circle. Thus there are two possibilities.
       
      Let us examine your scripture in the light of both the possibilities. If he is an ordinary human being, he shall be punished by death given by the judgement or he shall punish himself by committing suicide.
       
      Lord Jesus Himself advised the latter part of punishment. Jesus told that it is better himself to cut ones own sinful hand than falling in the eternal fire. If the human being is a realised soul, he will follow the instruction of Jesus and will commit suicide. But if the human being is like an animal, he will betray the Lord and go away with the bribe. For such a fellow, the judgement in the court is required in this world. If he escapes the judgement here, he will certainly go to the liquid fire.
       
      Now Judas proved himself as a realised soul. According to Jesus, if you punish yourself for your own sin, you need not go to the hell. In Hinduism also, Manu Smruthi says ‘the sinner punished by the king in this world gets rid of his sin and goes to heaven.’ (Rajabhih Dhruta Dandastu …. Manu Smruthi). Even from the court of law, we know that a single crime cannot have two punishments. Therefore if you take Judas as an ordinary human being, then also, he need not go to hell. Now if you analyse the case, in the path of second possibility, the devotee of the Lord acted in that bad role and punished himself for his own sin. In that case he has given the message to the world and entered the inner circle of the Lord after playing his due role. In both these possibilities, your scripture applies in toto. The conclusion of both the possibilities is only that one should not betray the Lord in human form.
       
      If one betrays the creator it is better that he ends his life and join the list of unborn persons. This is the meaning of the statement of your scripture. Especially in the case of Judas, he became the disciple of Jesus for sometime. Betraying the spiritual preacher, who is the Lord in human form (Satguru) is the highest sin. No other way of repentance is justified. Betraying an ordinary human being itself is the highest sin. Betraying the Lord is higher than the highest sin. This shows the purity of the Lord and the importance that should be given to the Lord.

        posted by: His servant
        at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
        www.universal-spirituality.org
       
      jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
      The only looser around here is the one who thinks he's
      Lord Krishna.


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    • oyemyemi fatuyi
      Dear sir, How are you sir, i received your message of understanding and knowledge.Thank you sir. Please sir, i am a member of this meditationsociety and
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 12, 2005
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        Dear sir,
        How are you sir, i received your message of understanding and knowledge.Thank you sir.
         
        Please sir, i am a member  of this meditationsociety and presently i need your help in my ministry.
         
        However,i will like to read from you soon.
         
        God bless you.
        Philips.

        prakki surya <dattapr2000@...> wrote:
        Judas betrayed the human incarnation. Judas may be an ordinary human being or may be the servant of Lord who belongs to the innermost circle. Thus there are two possibilities.
         
        Let us examine your scripture in the light of both the possibilities. If he is an ordinary human being, he shall be punished by death given by the judgement or he shall punish himself by committing suicide.
         
        Lord Jesus Himself advised the latter part of punishment. Jesus told that it is better himself to cut ones own sinful hand than falling in the eternal fire. If the human being is a realised soul, he will follow the instruction of Jesus and will commit suicide. But if the human being is like an animal, he will betray the Lord and go away with the bribe. For such a fellow, the judgement in the court is required in this world. If he escapes the judgement here, he will certainly go to the liquid fire.
         
        Now Judas proved himself as a realised soul. According to Jesus, if you punish yourself for your own sin, you need not go to the hell. In Hinduism also, Manu Smruthi says ‘the sinner punished by the king in this world gets rid of his sin and goes to heaven.’ (Rajabhih Dhruta Dandastu …. Manu Smruthi). Even from the court of law, we know that a single crime cannot have two punishments. Therefore if you take Judas as an ordinary human being, then also, he need not go to hell. Now if you analyse the case, in the path of second possibility, the devotee of the Lord acted in that bad role and punished himself for his own sin. In that case he has given the message to the world and entered the inner circle of the Lord after playing his due role. In both these possibilities, your scripture applies in toto. The conclusion of both the possibilities is only that one should not betray the Lord in human form.
         
        If one betrays the creator it is better that he ends his life and join the list of unborn persons. This is the meaning of the statement of your scripture. Especially in the case of Judas, he became the disciple of Jesus for sometime. Betraying the spiritual preacher, who is the Lord in human form (Satguru) is the highest sin. No other way of repentance is justified. Betraying an ordinary human being itself is the highest sin. Betraying the Lord is higher than the highest sin. This shows the purity of the Lord and the importance that should be given to the Lord.

          posted by: His servant
          at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
          www.universal-spirituality.org
         
        jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
        The only looser around here is the one who thinks he's
        Lord Krishna.

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      • jodyrrr
        ... wrote: [snip] ... I am doing the work of the Lord by calling you out as the psychotically grandiose wackjob nutbag that you are. Come
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 12, 2005
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          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
          <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

          [snip]

          > Betraying the Lord is higher than the highest sin. This
          > shows the purity of the Lord and the importance that
          > should be given to the Lord.

          I am doing the work of the Lord by calling you out as
          the psychotically grandiose wackjob nutbag that you are.

          Come back to Earth, Datta. You are no more Dattatreya
          than my dog.
        • blueoceantiger
          ... i continue to love how you recognize who your dog really is. hallelujah to the spiritual message of jody & cisco! love, --josie recognizing jody--
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 12, 2005
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
            <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
            > <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
            >
            > [snip]
            >
            > > Betraying the Lord is higher than the highest sin. This
            > > shows the purity of the Lord and the importance that
            > > should be given to the Lord.
            >
            > I am doing the work of the Lord by calling you out as
            > the psychotically grandiose wackjob nutbag that you are.
            >
            > Come back to Earth, Datta. You are no more Dattatreya
            > than my dog.
            >

            i continue to love how you recognize who
            your dog really is. hallelujah to the
            spiritual message of jody & cisco!

            love,
            --josie recognizing jody--
          • prakki surya
            my dear friend / friends 1) preaching which is convenient to hear, no need of doing anything extra, enjoy in the word only, should project greatest results
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 12, 2005
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              my dear friend / friends
               
              1) preaching which is convenient to hear, no need of doing anything extra, enjoy in the word only, should project greatest results like liberation in the end and may even becoming God Himself. it can be false also but even then does not matter. the messages must be crowd pulling type (like election campaigns with flowery english) and finally we may end up in nothing.

              2) Truth is longstanding and acceptance is difficult because truth is always harsh. finally it only reamains. not crowd pulling type. it will be in-line with all the scriptures and the path followed by great devotees in the past.

              these are the two possibilities and one has to select between these two and go ahead in that direction.
               
              Instead of this, not able to digest the true preaching or counter the logic, but resorting to personal attack is a mean method. Better is to keep silent on such posts which are not interesting to you so that let the interested people read and take the advantage of them.
               
              Jesus was offered kingdom by Satan to preach as per his liking. But Jesus has never modified or hiden the truth even though people were not able to appreciate. the true preaching unravels the hypocrisy in the devotion. This directly hits on the ego and hence results in so much of repulsion to human incarnation. This is not new and is happening from long back.
               
              Enough has been said to straighten otherwise leave to fate.

              His servant
              at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

              jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
              <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
              > Betraying the Lord is higher than the highest sin.This > shows the purity of the Lord and the importance that
              > should be given to the Lord.
              I am doing the work of the Lord by calling you out as
              the psychotically grandiose wackjob nutbag that you are.

              Come back to Earth, Datta. You are no more Dattatreya
              than my dog.



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            • jodyrrr
              ... wrote: [snip] ... And here you are, claiming to be the foremost incarnation of God Himself in the world today. What about Bhagavan
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 13, 2005
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                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

                [snip]

                > 2) Truth is longstanding and acceptance is difficult because
                > truth is always harsh. finally it only reamains. not crowd
                > pulling type. it will be in-line with all the scriptures
                > and the path followed by great devotees in the past.

                And here you are, claiming to be the foremost incarnation
                of God Himself in the world today.

                What about Bhagavan Kalki? Isn't he the foremost incarnation?

                Or Sai Baba. Isn't he the foremost incarnation?

                Both of these clowns have vast armies of devotees, and they
                both claim to conform to scripture.

                Why do they have so many devotees when you have
                so few?
              • jodyrrr
                ... It s either all divine, or none of it is divine. There is no such thing as some people more divine than others. But there are brains more addled by
                Message 7 of 20 , Dec 13, 2005
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                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "blueoceantiger"
                  <jkane@d...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                  > <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                  > > <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > [snip]
                  > >
                  > > > Betraying the Lord is higher than the highest sin. This
                  > > > shows the purity of the Lord and the importance that
                  > > > should be given to the Lord.
                  > >
                  > > I am doing the work of the Lord by calling you out as
                  > > the psychotically grandiose wackjob nutbag that you are.
                  > >
                  > > Come back to Earth, Datta. You are no more Dattatreya
                  > > than my dog.
                  > >
                  >
                  > i continue to love how you recognize who
                  > your dog really is. hallelujah to the
                  > spiritual message of jody & cisco!
                  >
                  > love,
                  > --josie recognizing jody--

                  It's either all divine, or none of it is divine.

                  There is no such thing as some people more divine
                  than others.

                  But there are brains more addled by narcissistic
                  need than others, hence the production known as
                  the world savior.

                  --jody.

                  PS: Cisco sends his love.
                • prakki surya
                  Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami The first reason is that the preaching of a Satguru differs from the preaching of a false Guru. The Satguru
                  Message 8 of 20 , Dec 15, 2005
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                    Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami
                     
                    The first reason is that the preaching of a Satguru differs from the preaching of a false Guru. The Satguru shows the true path, which is full of thorns. The false Guru shows the flowery path. Therefore there is difference. You must choose the Satguru by knowing the characteristics of a Satguru from Vedas. The special knowledge that liberates love and bliss in your heart, which no one else can preach, is the main characterstic of the Lord in the human form (Satguru). He also does miracles only when ever there is necessity but not as exhibition. Like this one can recognize Satguru who is the Lord in human form.
                     
                    Some times there may be different human forms of Satguru existing in the same time to preach different people existing at different levels. One Satguru may be preaching some person and accidentally you must have gone there and heard His preaching. That person is in different level compared to your level, in such case the preaching of that Satguru will not suit to your level. You must catch Satguru who suits to your level. The Satguru whom you caught will preach you according to your level. Then you may think that there may be difference between the two Satgurus but you are not realizing that the two Satgurus taught at two different levels.
                     
                    Therefore you must eliminate the fraud Guru and choose the Satguru who suits to your level. You must stick to that Satguru of your level, so that you will not get any confusion in the preaching of various Satgurus.

                      posted by: His servant
                      at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
                      www.universal-spirituality.org

                    jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
                    > 2) Truth is longstanding and acceptance is difficult because > truth is always harsh. finally it only reamains. not crowd > pulling type. it will be in-line with all the scriptures > and the path followed by great devotees in the past.
                    And here you are, claiming to be the foremost incarnation of God Himself in the world today.
                    What about Bhagavan Kalki?  Isn't he the foremost incarnation?
                    Or Sai Baba.  Isn't he the foremost incarnation?
                    Both of these clowns have vast armies of devotees, and they both claim to conform to scripture.
                    Why do they have so many devotees when you have
                    so few?


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                  • jodyrrr
                    ... wrote: [snip] ... So says the fraudulent (and cowardly) satguru , beset by the fixed delusion that he is more of a God than the rest of
                    Message 9 of 20 , Dec 16, 2005
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                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                      <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

                      [snip]

                      > Therefore you must eliminate the fraud Guru and choose the Satguru

                      So says the fraudulent (and cowardly) "satguru", beset by the
                      fixed delusion that he is more of a God than the rest of us.

                      His mommy should have probably breast-fed him more.
                    • jodyrrr
                      Dear Swami Datta. If you are truly who you say you are, you should be able to deal with the likes of me, directly. The reason I m made upset is because you are
                      Message 10 of 20 , Dec 16, 2005
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                        Dear Swami Datta.

                        If you are truly who you say you are, you should
                        be able to deal with the likes of me, directly.

                        The reason I'm made upset is because you are
                        spreading erroneous ideas about self-realization,
                        based on your delusion and your knowledge of the
                        shastras. Hindu tradition or not, the idea of
                        the satguru as you propose it is superstitious
                        nonsense. You're another fool on the bus, Datta,
                        just like any of the rest of us. Another rabbit,
                        to use your metaphor.

                        There's nothing special about you, *except* for
                        your holding a fixed delusion about the nature of
                        your identity.

                        But if I'm wrong about you, you should take this
                        opportunity to tell us why, directly. Don't hide
                        behind the flowery prose and shower of scriptural
                        justification for yourself. Just tell us, man to
                        man, or God to man, why we should believe that *you*
                        are the satguru.

                        Sincerely,

                        --jody.
                      • bhalla sandeep
                        I may like to respond to the mail written to the sada gure. Well, could we in the first place have an introduction of this new entrant who has very
                        Message 11 of 20 , Dec 19, 2005
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                          I may like to respond to the mail written to the sada gure. Well, could we in the first place have an introduction of this new entrant  who has very confidently passed the verdict that all of us are fools on tha same bus. I may like to point out that it is not the flowery language of the scriptures that is important to be pointed out but the actual point in iitself tha the gentleman begs to differ on. The mail is entirely generic in nature and you may like to elucidate the aspects and guidence you are looking for, and if you dont need any then really dont see the point of you being a visitor here. Its obvious that you surely are in serch of something that you dont have and the first lesson that you may like to pick up is humility sir. You are free to interact with me hereafter and i shall reply to your misgivings. All are not fools for sure. Wisdom does not lie in your words or mine but much beyond the realms of words spoken... take care.. Sandeep

                          jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
                          Dear Swami Datta.

                          If you are truly who you say you are, you should
                          be able to deal with the likes of me, directly.

                          The reason I'm made upset is because you are
                          spreading erroneous ideas about self-realization,
                          based on your delusion and your knowledge of the
                          shastras.  Hindu tradition or not, the idea of
                          the satguru as you propose it is superstitious
                          nonsense.  You're another fool on the bus, Datta,
                          just like any of the rest of us. Another rabbit,
                          to use your metaphor.

                          There's nothing special about you, *except* for
                          your holding a fixed delusion about the nature of
                          your identity.

                          But if I'm wrong about you, you should take this
                          opportunity to tell us why, directly.  Don't hide
                          behind the flowery prose and shower of scriptural
                          justification for yourself.  Just tell us, man to
                          man, or God to man, why we should believe that *you*
                          are the satguru.

                          Sincerely,

                          --jody.




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                        • prakki surya
                          Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami Any human being cannot do any work just by will even after long concentration. The same work happens as soon
                          Message 12 of 20 , Dec 19, 2005
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                            Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami
                             
                            Any human being cannot do any work just by will even after long concentration.  The same work happens as soon as the Lord wishes just once.  This whole Universe is created just by His one wish.  The faith is a long time concentrated will power.  The will is common in both the Lord and human being.  The will is a characteristic of awareness.  This awareness is common item in both the Lord and the human being.  Therefore, will is also a common item in both the Lord and soul (human being).  All these worlds are created just by one wish of the Lord.  But even if the soul wishes one crore times in a highly concentrated way called “Faith”, even an atom is not created.  When both are forms of awareness, why this vast difference comes?  Just the one wish of the Lord appears as the solid Universe to all the souls!  Even the highly concentrated will of a soul is not appearing as materialized form to other souls.  Such will is not even appearing as imagination to other souls.  It is appearing as imagination only to that particular soul, which imagined so.  In one house the bulb is not glowing in-spite of putting on the switch several times.  But in another house, the bulb is glowing when just once its switch is put on.  In both the houses, same switches, same wires and same bulbs exist.  But, the difference is that in the first house, there is no current.  In the second house, there is current.  Similarly in the awareness of soul, God (Parabrahman) does not exist.  In the awareness of the Lord, God exists.  This awareness is called as Brahman, because awareness, which is the first creation of God, is greatest among all the items of creation.  Brahman means anything, which is greatest among a category of items.  The word Parabrahman means God or Creator, who is beyond Brahman.  Due to the power of God only, creation takes place.  Mere awareness has no such power to create this Universe.  This awareness is the will or imagination of God.  This Universe appears always as imagination only to God.  This Universe itself is an ocean of awareness.  The soul is a drop in it.  The power of the ocean is far greater than the power of the drop.  Due to this only, this universe appears as materialized solid to the soul.  This whole universe is again a drop only in the awareness created by God in the beginning, which is called as “Mula Prakruti” or “Maha Maya”.  God does not exist in the Universe.  Therefore, this Universe becomes a scene to the spectator-God.  Scene must be different from the spectator.  The “Mula Prakruti” into which God entered and pervaded is called as Lord (Eswara). 
                             
                            This Lord is spectator and Universe is scene.  Thus, both the Scene and the outer cover of Brahman are forms of awareness only.  The soul is also a form of awareness.  Soul – Universe –Spectator become greater and greater as we pass on.  God is neither in the Universe nor is in the soul.  Therefore, both these have no power of creation.  Spectatorship is the characteristic of the awareness.  Therefore, even the soul is a spectator.  But the soul can see its own imaginary world as imagination and the Universe as reality.  It cannot see this Universe as imagination.  For the Lord only, this Universe including all the souls is an imagination. 
                             
                            The Lord knows and sees everything in the Universe.  But the soul sees and knows only a little in the Universe.  Thus the spectatorship also differs in both the cases.  The soul can see and knows everything of its own imaginary world only.  Though, the Universe is entirely awareness, a part of it becomes spectator in the form of souls and another part is inert which does not see or know anything.  This difference took place only by the will of the Lord.  Therefore, a soul cannot throw away this difference created by the Lord and cannot treat both as one and the same awareness.  The soul cannot say that the whole Universe has spectatorship.  Some claim that they have realized the entire Universe as one awareness, which is totally against their own experience.  Such experience of difference is the will of the Lord and so they behave differently for all practical purposes. No scholar talks with a stone!  A stone cannot preach you and remove your ignorance for all practical purposes.  Even the Lord views both the soul and inert matter differently as per their status, but He views both as His imagination.  But the soul cannot see both as his imagination and the soul also views both differently like the Lord.  If you refer to the external form of the Lord only, which is awareness, both the external form of Lord and the entire soul are one and the same.  The difference is that the Lord is God embraced by the awareness, where as the soul is mere awareness.  The Lord is the wire with current, where as the soul is the wire without current. 
                             
                            Therefore, the soul cannot achieve anything in this world just by faith only.  Its external actions may achieve something in this world but not its mere internal will.  Even this external action becomes sometimes invalid, because the field of its action is the world, which is without God.  Some say that everything is possible by self-confidence or faith.  But this statement is laudable only till it is not analysed!  The wire without current cannot create even a ray of light in the bulb.  People believe that self-faith can achieve anything and therefore, they conclude that the self itself is the Lord.  Anything is possible only to the Lord.  If a soul wishes to make everything possible, the only way is to catch the Lord and please Him.  “Self-Faith’ means the faith that is concentrated on the Lord, who came down as a self or as a human being.  For the sake of the convenience of the soul to achieve such goal, the Lord comes down as a soul.  The faith in such soul, to believe it as the Lord is called as “Self-Faith”.  All the power of God is present in such human incarnation, because God and His power are beyond the spatial dimensions. 
                             
                              posted by: His servant
                              at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
                              www.universal-spirituality.org


                            bhalla sandeep <gradbm@...> wrote:
                            I may like to respond to the mail written to the sada gure. Well, could we in the first place have an introduction of this new entrant  who has very confidently passed the verdict that all of us are fools on tha same bus. I may like to point out that it is not the flowery language of the scriptures that is important to be pointed out but the actual point in iitself tha the gentleman

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                          • jodyrrr
                            ... My name is Jody, I ve been active on these message boards since 1998, and I write a blog called guruphiliac.org. ... My point to being here is to express
                            Message 13 of 20 , Dec 19, 2005
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                              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, bhalla sandeep
                              <gradbm@y...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I may like to respond to the mail written to the sada gure. Well,
                              > could we in the first place have an introduction of this new
                              > entrant who has very confidently passed the verdict that all
                              > of us are fools on tha same bus.

                              My name is Jody, I've been active on these message
                              boards since 1998, and I write a blog called guruphiliac.org.

                              > I may like to point out that it is not the flowery language of
                              > the scriptures that is important to be pointed out but the actual
                              > point in iitself tha the gentleman begs to differ on. The mail is
                              > entirely generic in nature and you may like to elucidate the
                              > aspects and guidence you are looking for, and if you dont need
                              > any then really dont see the point of you being a visitor here.

                              My point to being here is to express this truth: nobody is
                              more divine than anyone else.

                              > Its obvious that you surely are in serch of something that you
                              > dont have and the first lesson that you may like to pick up is
                              > humility sir.

                              I am in search of one thing, to identify and eliminate
                              occluding ideas in spiritual culture. One of these is
                              the idea that self-realization makes you more divine
                              than you were before. Not true. We are either always
                              divine, or never divine, regardless of our status as
                              realizers.

                              The person in need of some humility around here is
                              Datta, who claims to be God moreso than you and I.

                              > You are free to interact with me hereafter and i shall
                              > reply to your misgivings. All are not fools for sure.

                              Some don't like to think of themselves as such, true.
                              However, as human beings on the planet, we all share
                              divinity, equally.

                              The "fools on the bus" line is a lyric from a song
                              popular in the U.S. in the early 90s. It suggests that
                              our humanity makes us all equals in a gently mocking
                              tone. Taking oneself too seriously is a disease of
                              the mind which Swami Datta is suffering from.

                              > Wisdom does not lie in your words or mine but much
                              > beyond the realms of words spoken... take care.. Sandeep

                              True. However, some words spring from lives with
                              access to that which is beyond words, and some
                              spring from the psychotic delusion that they are
                              an incarnated deity.

                              --jody.

                              > jodyrrr <jodyrrr@y...> wrote: Dear Swami Datta.
                              >
                              > If you are truly who you say you are, you should
                              > be able to deal with the likes of me, directly.
                              >
                              > The reason I'm made upset is because you are
                              > spreading erroneous ideas about self-realization,
                              > based on your delusion and your knowledge of the
                              > shastras. Hindu tradition or not, the idea of
                              > the satguru as you propose it is superstitious
                              > nonsense. You're another fool on the bus, Datta,
                              > just like any of the rest of us. Another rabbit,
                              > to use your metaphor.
                              >
                              > There's nothing special about you, *except* for
                              > your holding a fixed delusion about the nature of
                              > your identity.
                              >
                              > But if I'm wrong about you, you should take this
                              > opportunity to tell us why, directly. Don't hide
                              > behind the flowery prose and shower of scriptural
                              > justification for yourself. Just tell us, man to
                              > man, or God to man, why we should believe that *you*
                              > are the satguru.
                              >
                              > Sincerely,
                              >
                              > --jody.
                              >
                              >
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                            • jodyrrr
                              ... wrote: [snop] ... Bring it on, you psychotically grandiose nincompoop. If you are God, smite me where I stand, because I am utterly
                              Message 14 of 20 , Dec 19, 2005
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                                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                                <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

                                [snop]

                                > All the power of God is present in such human incarnation,
                                > because God and His power are beyond the spatial dimensions.

                                Bring it on, you psychotically grandiose nincompoop.
                                If you are God, smite me where I stand, because I am
                                utterly opposed to the deluded nonsense you are spewing
                                like vomit around here.
                              • prakki surya
                                Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami Q) Was the Lord not satisfied with Himself that He started this dolls-play of creation with animals, plants and
                                Message 15 of 20 , Dec 19, 2005
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                                  Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami
                                   

                                  Q) Was the Lord not satisfied with Himself that He started this dolls-play of creation with animals, plants and humans? For the Lord it is a game to engage souls in deeds and then clear their sins (or good deeds). If He has set the rules of the game and He has predetermined how much sin of each soul to clear in one birth, then does the soul have no independent will and freedom of choice? Should we just do our duty as told in the Gita and not worry about steering our own lives as we see fit?

                                   

                                  Infact the Lord is satisfied by Himself as said in the Brahma Sutra (Lokavattu Leela Kaivalyam). The Lord gets satisfaction when His devotee gets satisfied. The essential aim of this creation for the God is only the sweetness of love. The Lord enjoys the sweetness in the love of His devotees to Him. The Devotees enjoy the same sweetness of love of God to them. Therefore, the devotees who are satisfied with such sweet love will not put this question. Only the devotees who could not get such love which flows to both sides are subjected to this question. Such devotees love these unreal bonds in this world.
                                   
                                  They do not get satisfaction because when such love is analyzed, the inner selfishness comes out. When the essence of such love is realized, this question comes to the mind and the creation looks waste. They have seen only the false love of the world but have not seen the true love of God. If they enter the spiritual line and experience the true love of the Lord, they will certainly find the necessity of this wonderful creation. Without this creation the existence of such divine love is not possible. Therefore, on realizing the false love in this world one has to turn towards God to experience the real love. When they experience the divine love they will appreciate the Creator, the Creation and the aim of the Creation. Thus the game, which is the aim of the Creation, is not just for the selfish satisfaction of the Lord. In fact the divine love is more enjoyed by the soul than the Lord. The reason is that the Lord Himself is an infinite ocean of bliss and does not require any more enjoyment.
                                   
                                  It is actually the soul, which is an infinite ocean of worry and misery enjoys the divine love, which contains bliss. Sri Rama Krishna Paramahamsa told that He likes to be the ant to enjoy the sugar than to be the sugar itself. The ant, which is not sugar, enjoys more the sugar. The sugar being itself the sugar cannot enjoy the sweetness. In fact even the Lord imposes ignorance on Him and becomes an ordinary soul to enjoy really this sweetness of divine love. Hanuman was the incarnation of the Lord Shiva. He cannot enjoy the divine love of the Lord to a devotee. Therefore, He imposed ignorance on Himself and became a devotee. Hanuman enjoyed the divine love of the Lord Rama more than Rama Himself. Infact Rama also could enjoy the divine love by imposing self-ignorance and by acting as an ordinary human being. Therefore, this game is more meaningful for the sake of the souls than the Lord Himself. The Lord transfers the evil results of such real devotees to Himself and enjoys actually the misery. By this the devotee enjoys permanent happiness. Therefore, this game of the world is finally resulting in the permanent happiness of devotees (souls) only and not for the enjoyment of the Lord.
                                   
                                  The rules of the game are well defined. Violation is not possible as long as you are in the field of Pravrutti. Even in Pravrutti if you accept and surrender to Lord unlike the atheist, some concession is given as the rearrangement of the results i.e., postponing and pre-poning. Since, the interest is increased and decreased respectively, the concession is not beyond the rules of justice. When the person to whom you have to pay the loan comes to you, he may postpone the payment on your request but will not cancel the interest. But in the Nivrutti the loan and the interest is cancelled. But the Lord pays all that for your sake. The main purpose of the human incarnation is only this. Through human body, He suffers as you suffer. He will not avoid suffering using His super power because it will be again cheating the justice.
                                   
                                  Thus, the rules of the game, which are called, as the administration of justice is never violated either in Pravrutti or Nivrutti. But you have the full freedom in the game to win or to be defeated. The rules will not affect your chances of either success or defeat. You have to play the game following rules. Sometimes the rules may help you to succeed. When the soul with its subtle body returns to the earth with a gross body as a baby, the subtle body contains very little remains of the original qualities. In the hell the intensity of these qualities is very much reduced. The remains of these qualities are called as Karma Sesha (Remains of deeds). Actually it is Samskara Sesha (Remains of qualities). People misunderstand at this point and think that the subtle body is associated with the remains of the deeds. The deed is inert and cannot be present in the life energy (Subtle body). Only a quality, which is a wave of the life energy, can remain in the subtle body. When a thief was beaten in the police station and is left, he comes out with reduced intensity in his quality of steeling. The deed of steeling does not remain with the thief. It is this remainder of quality that generates its corresponding deed of steeling. The remaining quality of steeling grows in the encouraging atmosphere and generates the deed of steeling. Now you are caught and again punished. For the second punishment, which is the cause? The root cause is only the remaining quality of steeling. Thus, you are said that you are undergoing the result of the past deed. The word "Past deed" means the past remaining quality only. If that past remaining quality is destroyed, there is no second punishment. How to destroy the quality? The quality is made of life energy and is constituted by wrong knowledge. Therefore, only the right divine knowledge can destroy the quality. If the qualities are destroyed by the divine knowledge the deeds are destroyed. This is said in Gita, "Jnanagnih Sarva Karmani …..", which means that divine knowledge can destroy all the deeds. What is this divine knowledge? It is the knowledge of the Lord, your self and path to attain Him and please Him. If He is pleased, He will give you the divine knowledge and all the deeds are burnt. If you are unable to use the knowledge fully and if some deeds are still left over due to your improper assimilation of knowledge, the Lord will burn those deeds also by suffering with those results. The Lord clearly stated in Gita that the divine knowledge alone could relieve you from all the sins. Once you are determined due to the divine knowledge you will practice it without any doubt. The result of that is the full grace of the Lord.
                                   
                                  The divine knowledge consists of two parts 1) If you are in Pravrutti (path of justice) only, you can attain your self by the self-realization. In this you will be fixed in the self and get detached from the both subtle and gross bodies. By this all the bonds related to gross body and related to feelings (Subtle body) are cut off and you will attain the eternal peace. All your worries, anxiety, tensions, misery, mental pain, dissatisfaction, confusion etc., will disappear forever. You will live with perfect peace through out your life. Peace is your property, which is the characteristic of your soul. You have to think that you are the pure awareness, which is stand still (called as Atman or soul). When you are attached to the gross body or subtle body (Mind), you have lost the peace. If you are attached to the casual body (soul), you have gained your lost peace.
                                   
                                  2) In Nivrutti (path of liberation) you attain the Lord who has come in the human form for your sake to give the bliss. Bliss is only the characteristic of Lord as said in Veda (Anando Brahma……). Veda also says that the Lord alone can give bliss to the soul (Eshahyeva Anandayati……). Bliss is not characteristic of the soul. Your property is only the golden chain and not the diamond necklace. You should not think that peace is bliss. By your effort you can attain only peace but not the bliss. You can get the bliss only by nearing yourself to Sadguru who is the human incarnation. You can get the cool breeze when you are near the sea on the shore. If you are in the house, you have avoided the hot sun. By attaining the soul you have come to zero from minus, but that is not plus. Zero is within yourself and bliss is from external agency. When you have attained what you have, it is avoiding loss, which can give only peace but not the bliss.
                                   
                                  Thus, the divine knowledge of Sadguru gives you atleast peace, which is the earth, if not the bliss, which is the sky. He will give you the knowledge of Atman to give peace. This is essential requirement for anyone in this world. A few blessed people can also get the bliss if they realise that the Sadguru is the Lord Himself. Therefore, you must utilise the full freedom given to you in this human birth and you must destroy all your sins permanently through Nivrutti only. You should be very active to use this unlimited freedom within the limited span of lifetime. When you leave this gross body and go to upper worlds you have no freedom at all and those upper worlds hence are called as " Bhoga Loka" which mean that they are the worlds in which the results are to be enjoyed without any freedom. This earth is called as "Karma Loka" which means the world in which you are given full freedom to do anything. You are given the opportunity to receive the divine knowledge here and if you practice it by determination, your entire fate is changed here and there also.
                                   
                                  The sages did long penance and sat in the process of self-realization for several ages. They obtained peace of the self but not bliss of the Brahman. Then they realized and approached Lord Krishna as Gopikas for the bliss, which they got in Brindavanam in the vicinity of the Lord (Sayujyam). You can smile or laugh with bliss only by attaining the Lord in human form. You can get atleast a shadow of the bliss by remembering the Lord. But without any external agency you cannot get happiness or bliss. If you are peaceful and silent, no body will ask you the reason but if you are laughing and dancing in bliss stating that there is no external reason for it, it is unnatural and people will admit you in the mental hospital.
                                   
                                    posted by: His servant
                                    at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
                                    www.universal-spirituality.org

                                  jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
                                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya<dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

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                                • jodyrrr
                                  ... wrote: [snip] Another gratuitous expression of inflated nonsense and another cowardly act and failure to fill the shoes of those who
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Dec 19, 2005
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                                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                                    <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

                                    [snip]

                                    Another gratuitous expression of inflated nonsense and
                                    another cowardly act and failure to fill the shoes of
                                    those who have been called satgurus.
                                  • prakki surya
                                    Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami For a soul, this world is real and is called as Maya or Vikshepa. The world is the imagination of the Lord but
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Dec 20, 2005
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                                      Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami
                                       
                                      For a soul, this world is real and is called as Maya or Vikshepa. The world is the imagination of the Lord but it is real for all the souls.  The world is not the imagination of the soul.  The imagination of the soul is dream, which is called as Avidya or Avaranam. The Vikshepa and avaranam are made of ignorance.  But the former ignorance is apparent only and the Lord has full awareness during the ignorance.  It is called as “Saatvika Maya” which means the ignorance illuminated with knowledge. It is just like a daydream of a dreamer who is in fully awakened state.  The Avaranam has no knowledge and is deep ignorance only.  It is like a night dream.  The Lord is the daydreamer and soul is night dreamer.  The Lord controls the dream and soul is controlled by dream.  The soul can destroy its avidya but can never destroy the Maya.  Avidya is the imagination or feeling of the soul and can disappear by the knowledge. But Maya is the materialised world for the soul and can never disappear. The soul is pure awareness and is called as atman or the causal body. The gross body is made of five elements. Both these bodies are part of Maya and can never be destroyed by the soul.  The pure awareness is eternal.  The five elements of the gross body are also eternal.  The subtle body, which is made of qualities or feelings or imaginations of the soul, can be destroyed by the soul through knowledge.  The subtle body is made of ignorance of the soul and can be destroyed by the scholar. 
                                       
                                      After death this subtle body only goes to the other worlds. For a liberated soul, since the subtle body is destroyed, he does not go to the other worlds. The causal body and the gross body merge in the cosmos here it self as said by Veda (Ihaiva Pranah….).  In the case of human incarnation also, same thing happens but the fourth item, the Lord, is left over. The advaita Philosophers should note this difference between Maya and Avidya. Sankara clearly told that the Avaranam disappears by knowledge but not Vikshepa.

                                      The highest stage is not to aspire anything from the Lord. The Lord does everything according to His judgement and your deeds.  The desire cannot bring any reaction in the Lord.  Some devotees cry with very loud voice and do several actions for help from the Lord.  The cry also will not bring any trace of reaction in the Lord.  Draupadi cried for help from the Lord. The Lord did not react for the cry.  Draupadi tore her sari to apply bandage to the finger of the Lord when it was cut.  It was this deed that made the Lord to help her. The Lord would have helped her even without her cry.  The Lord was watching the situation and was ready for the correct moment to act.  The merit point in the cry of Draupadi was that she believed Lord Krishna as omnipresent and did not confine the Lord to His limited body.  Therefore, she cried in the court itself even though the Lord was in far place. Devotion without any aspiration is the best.  The next middle level devotion is to believe the Lord as omnipresent and pray at any place.  The lower level of devotion is to try to inform the human incarnation personally.  This is an insult to the Lord because you do not believe the Lord in human form as omnipresent atleast. 
                                       
                                      If you think that the Lord is not omnipresent how can He help you as omnipotent?  Above all this, the main point is whether the devotee requests or not, the protection from the Lord comes only based on the selfless service offered by him to the Lord without aspiring any fruit in return.  When such service is absent, the Lord cannot do any help merely based on their requests or prayers and crying. Therefore, there is no need of prayer or request or crying to the Lord if the selfless service is absent. There is also no need of prayer or request or crying to the Lord if the selfless service is present. Therefore, a devotee should always concentrate on the selfless service to the Lord without aspiring any fruit in return and the prayer should be only in the praise of the Lord and not for asking any boon or protection because even if you ask there is no trace of any use.
                                       
                                        posted by: His servant
                                        at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
                                        www.universal-spirituality.org
                                       

                                      jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
                                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

                                      Another gratuitous expression of inflated nonsense and
                                      another cowardly act and failure to fill the shoes of
                                      those who have been called satgurus.

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                                    • jodyrrr
                                      ... wrote: More gratuitous nonsense that s the product of nothing more than an incredibly puffed-up ego.
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Dec 20, 2005
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                                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                                        <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

                                        More gratuitous nonsense that's the product of
                                        nothing more than an incredibly puffed-up ego.
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