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Spiritual Message of Jesus and Krishna

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  • prakki surya
    Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami The spiritual message of Jesus and Krishna are always one and the same in every aspect. Jesus always preached
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 10, 2005
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      The spiritual message of Jesus and Krishna are always one and the same in every aspect. Jesus always preached for the detachment from the blind worldly bonds like bonds with family members. He stated that unless one is prepared to leave parents, children, money and even life for His sake, one couldn’t be His dearest disciple. He always preached the eradication of egoism. Whenever a supernatural act was done by Him, He always claimed that it was due to His Father whose glory is to be propagated. He never owned any supernatural act. He always preached that His Father only grants the boons and all the facilities on this earth. Krishna also told the same points in Gita about detachment (Nirmamah…), removal of egoism (Yadahamkaramasritya…) and sanction of boons by God only (Mayaiva Vihitan…). These three aspects are very important steps to achieve the grace of the Lord.
       
      You love your family members and such love gives you some pleasure in your heart. Therefore, your love is only for your self-satisfaction and such love is only selfishness. You are over powered by the emotions of love but you are not analysing by controlling your emotions. If you analyse, you can clearly understand that your love cannot protect either yourself or your family members. Your love is only some loss of your precious nervous energy and valuable time. Except this loss there is no use. By emotion you are becoming weak by losing energy. Why are you doing such foolish thing again and again? There is no benefit out of such act and there is only clear loss.
       
      But if you divert your love towards God, He will protect and develop yourself as well as your family members in this world as well as in the upper world. By spending the same quantum of nervous energy towards God, you are getting all unimaginable benefits forever! How wise is this act! By protecting yourself and your family members, you are proving your love towards yourself and your family members. This is the true love. The former is only false love, which involves wastage of energy just out of selfishness. Thus, wise scholars overcome emotions and analyse any point with calm and energetic brain. Gita says to apply the brain always to do the analysis and find out the truth before any action (Buddhow Saranam…).
       
      Most of the people are not understanding this truth. Especially this is very clear in the case of parents who blindly love their children with the climax of the emotion spending their maximum precious nervous energy, which is simply wasted without any use for themselves or for their children. I find, sometimes, some parents or elders are talking with just born babies! They talk so many sentences and they no very well that the baby cannot understand even a single word! They waste their nervous and oral energy for such a long time and they feel very great about such foolish act! Therefore, try to understand my point without any excitation and try to implement my advice. You can experiment my advice just for a month and then see the tremendous change in your circumstances.
       
      The next item is eradication of egoism. Whenever you are doing some appreciable act, immediately you disown yourself from such act. You surrender all the credit to the Lord even before somebody praises about it. If some body is praising you for such act, you pass on the ownership to the Lord at once. Otherwise, the wine of egoism will enter your brain and your are intoxicated with the egoism. You are transformed into a demon shortly. Some people disown the praise externally but accept the praise in their minds. This is just like drinking the wine negating it orally. In such case also the intoxication of egoism is inevitable. You are thinking that you are the owner or the master of your family.
       
      You feel yourself as the king or the ruler and you think that your family is your kingdom. This is the climax of foolishness and ignorance. You cannot even rule the organs of your body like heart, kidneys, lungs etc. Even your body is under the control of the Lord only. How can you control other human beings? Therefore, you quit your post of headship of your family. From now onwards you recognise that the Lord is the head of your family. From this moment onwards you feel that you are just a member of your family like any other family member. You belong to the category of “Ruled” and you are not at all the ruler. Now your family and your body are under the control of the divine master.
       
      If anything happens to your body or to your family, do not get disturbed because the rectification is responsibility of the Lord who is the owner of your body and the family. The owner only has to worry about any disturbance. You are not responsible for either the disturbance or its rectification. Let any problem arise, you keep calm and peaceful. Even if you are disturbed and feel responsible, you cannot do anything. Suppose you are responding to the problem and try for its rectification, even then, you feel that you are acting as instrument or a servant of God to do that work. You must feel that you are assigned to solve that problem by the order of the Lord. When the problem is solved you must pass on the entire credit to the Lord only. As I told you, you can experiment my advice for a month and see the excellent works of the Lord.
       
      You must always feel that the final granting authority is only the Lord. Except the Lord nobody or nothing or no force is responsible to accomplish anything. Everybody and everything acts according to His wish. The Lord is not seen by you. Therefore, you think that somebody is kind enough to help you. The person who helped you is forced by the Lord to help you. That person is just carrying on the order of the Lord. Even if you scold him, he will not stop helping you. Even if you praise him, he will not help you if there is no sanction from the Lord. A messenger is bringing a signed cheque from the Lord. The Lord is in the house and you are not seeing Him. You have seen the messenger and the cheque in his hand. You are thinking that the messenger is very kind in helping you. You are praising the messenger. The cheque is handed over in the Bank. The staff are arranging for the payment of the cheque to you. You are praising the staff thinking that they are very kind to help you. It is the duty of the staff to arrange for encashment of the cheque. They will loose their jobs if they are not doing their duties. They are working for the fear of their jobs only. Therefore, you must recognise that the God is the signatory and that He is the account holder. You must understand that the Lord is paying His cash to you. You must analyse the root cause. The root cause is the cheque. The cheque is valid only when it is signed by the account holder. Therefore, you must recognise the force that makes the root cause valid and sanctioning the boons to you. By such deep analysis only, you will find the Lord as the cause of the cause. Then only you will become grateful to the Lord and express your gratitude to the correct person who is the Lord alone. Whenever any favour was granted Jesus used to praise the Lord immediately and expressed His gratitude to the Lord. You must thank the Lord for whatever is given to you already. If you are not satisfied with the existing facilities, you will never be satisfied even if the Lord grants any number of more facilities. If you already satisfied and feel contented with whatever is given already, the Lord is further pleased to grant further facilities. Therefore, to achieve the grace of the Lord, the contentment with the existing circumstances is essential. Therefore, be always satisfied and be always cheerful with whatever you have already. This is the basis for achieving the grace from the Lord in more quantity in the future. You must always express the gratefulness to the Lord for whatever is already granted to you. You should not ask for anything more. When thousands of people came to see Jesus, He was having just four breads in a basket. He did not ask the Lord for more breads. He raised the basket with His hands and praised the Lord for giving those four breads. Immediately the four breads were multiplied to thousands. Gita also says about the necessity of self-satisfaction with the existing things (Nityatrupto…). He will be rained with infinite grace of the Lord if you follow my advice. Again I suggest that you experiment this for a month and then practice in your life.
       
      All this preaching is only the practical philosophy, which requires firm faith in the preacher. The preacher should be the correct the person. Only the Lord in human form can be such a correct preacher. If you believe a false preacher or an ignorant person as the true preacher, results cannot be seen. If you approach the real water and believe it as the water really, you can put your finger in it and feel the coldness, which is the correct result. If you put your finger in fire, you cannot feel the coldness because it is not water. Similarly the false preacher gives negative results. If you put your finger in air, which is neither water nor fire, your finger neither feels the coldness nor is burnt. Similarly an ignorant person acting as a true preacher can give neither correct result nor the negative result. You will be wasting your time energy with such an ignorant preacher. Therefore, catching the right guide (Satguru) is fundamental step. If you mistake the true guide as some ordinary guy only, you are loosing. Veda says “Ihachet Avedet…) which means that if you miss the correct preacher in this world in this birth, you are a permanent looser. All those ignorant people who did not recognise Jesus and crucified Him were permanent losers. Similarly, all the ignorant people who cannot recognise Lord Krishna are loosing the spiritual treasure forever.
       
        posted by: His servant
        at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
        www.universal-spirituality.org


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    • jodyrrr
      ... wrote: [snip] ... The only looser around here is the one who thinks he s Lord Krishna.
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 10, 2005
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
        <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

        [snip]

        > Therefore, catching the right guide (Satguru) is fundamental
        > step. If you mistake the true guide as some ordinary guy only,
        > you are loosing. Veda says "Ihachet Avedet…) which means that
        > if you miss the correct preacher in this world in this birth,
        > you are a permanent looser. All those ignorant people who did
        > not recognise Jesus and crucified Him were permanent losers.
        > Similarly, all the ignorant people who cannot recognise Lord
        > Krishna are loosing the spiritual treasure forever.

        The only looser around here is the one who thinks he's
        Lord Krishna.
      • prakki surya
        Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami --Judas Betrayal Judas betrayed the human incarnation. Judas may be an ordinary human being or may be the
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 10, 2005
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          Judas betrayed the human incarnation. Judas may be an ordinary human being or may be the servant of Lord who belongs to the innermost circle. Thus there are two possibilities.
           
          Let us examine your scripture in the light of both the possibilities. If he is an ordinary human being, he shall be punished by death given by the judgement or he shall punish himself by committing suicide.
           
          Lord Jesus Himself advised the latter part of punishment. Jesus told that it is better himself to cut ones own sinful hand than falling in the eternal fire. If the human being is a realised soul, he will follow the instruction of Jesus and will commit suicide. But if the human being is like an animal, he will betray the Lord and go away with the bribe. For such a fellow, the judgement in the court is required in this world. If he escapes the judgement here, he will certainly go to the liquid fire.
           
          Now Judas proved himself as a realised soul. According to Jesus, if you punish yourself for your own sin, you need not go to the hell. In Hinduism also, Manu Smruthi says ‘the sinner punished by the king in this world gets rid of his sin and goes to heaven.’ (Rajabhih Dhruta Dandastu …. Manu Smruthi). Even from the court of law, we know that a single crime cannot have two punishments. Therefore if you take Judas as an ordinary human being, then also, he need not go to hell. Now if you analyse the case, in the path of second possibility, the devotee of the Lord acted in that bad role and punished himself for his own sin. In that case he has given the message to the world and entered the inner circle of the Lord after playing his due role. In both these possibilities, your scripture applies in toto. The conclusion of both the possibilities is only that one should not betray the Lord in human form.
           
          If one betrays the creator it is better that he ends his life and join the list of unborn persons. This is the meaning of the statement of your scripture. Especially in the case of Judas, he became the disciple of Jesus for sometime. Betraying the spiritual preacher, who is the Lord in human form (Satguru) is the highest sin. No other way of repentance is justified. Betraying an ordinary human being itself is the highest sin. Betraying the Lord is higher than the highest sin. This shows the purity of the Lord and the importance that should be given to the Lord.

            posted by: His servant
            at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
            www.universal-spirituality.org
           
          jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
          The only looser around here is the one who thinks he's
          Lord Krishna.


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        • oyemyemi fatuyi
          Dear sir, How are you sir, i received your message of understanding and knowledge.Thank you sir. Please sir, i am a member of this meditationsociety and
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 12, 2005
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            Dear sir,
            How are you sir, i received your message of understanding and knowledge.Thank you sir.
             
            Please sir, i am a member  of this meditationsociety and presently i need your help in my ministry.
             
            However,i will like to read from you soon.
             
            God bless you.
            Philips.

            prakki surya <dattapr2000@...> wrote:
            Judas betrayed the human incarnation. Judas may be an ordinary human being or may be the servant of Lord who belongs to the innermost circle. Thus there are two possibilities.
             
            Let us examine your scripture in the light of both the possibilities. If he is an ordinary human being, he shall be punished by death given by the judgement or he shall punish himself by committing suicide.
             
            Lord Jesus Himself advised the latter part of punishment. Jesus told that it is better himself to cut ones own sinful hand than falling in the eternal fire. If the human being is a realised soul, he will follow the instruction of Jesus and will commit suicide. But if the human being is like an animal, he will betray the Lord and go away with the bribe. For such a fellow, the judgement in the court is required in this world. If he escapes the judgement here, he will certainly go to the liquid fire.
             
            Now Judas proved himself as a realised soul. According to Jesus, if you punish yourself for your own sin, you need not go to the hell. In Hinduism also, Manu Smruthi says ‘the sinner punished by the king in this world gets rid of his sin and goes to heaven.’ (Rajabhih Dhruta Dandastu …. Manu Smruthi). Even from the court of law, we know that a single crime cannot have two punishments. Therefore if you take Judas as an ordinary human being, then also, he need not go to hell. Now if you analyse the case, in the path of second possibility, the devotee of the Lord acted in that bad role and punished himself for his own sin. In that case he has given the message to the world and entered the inner circle of the Lord after playing his due role. In both these possibilities, your scripture applies in toto. The conclusion of both the possibilities is only that one should not betray the Lord in human form.
             
            If one betrays the creator it is better that he ends his life and join the list of unborn persons. This is the meaning of the statement of your scripture. Especially in the case of Judas, he became the disciple of Jesus for sometime. Betraying the spiritual preacher, who is the Lord in human form (Satguru) is the highest sin. No other way of repentance is justified. Betraying an ordinary human being itself is the highest sin. Betraying the Lord is higher than the highest sin. This shows the purity of the Lord and the importance that should be given to the Lord.

              posted by: His servant
              at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
              www.universal-spirituality.org
             
            jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
            The only looser around here is the one who thinks he's
            Lord Krishna.

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          • jodyrrr
            ... wrote: [snip] ... I am doing the work of the Lord by calling you out as the psychotically grandiose wackjob nutbag that you are. Come
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 12, 2005
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              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
              <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

              [snip]

              > Betraying the Lord is higher than the highest sin. This
              > shows the purity of the Lord and the importance that
              > should be given to the Lord.

              I am doing the work of the Lord by calling you out as
              the psychotically grandiose wackjob nutbag that you are.

              Come back to Earth, Datta. You are no more Dattatreya
              than my dog.
            • blueoceantiger
              ... i continue to love how you recognize who your dog really is. hallelujah to the spiritual message of jody & cisco! love, --josie recognizing jody--
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 12, 2005
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                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                > <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
                >
                > [snip]
                >
                > > Betraying the Lord is higher than the highest sin. This
                > > shows the purity of the Lord and the importance that
                > > should be given to the Lord.
                >
                > I am doing the work of the Lord by calling you out as
                > the psychotically grandiose wackjob nutbag that you are.
                >
                > Come back to Earth, Datta. You are no more Dattatreya
                > than my dog.
                >

                i continue to love how you recognize who
                your dog really is. hallelujah to the
                spiritual message of jody & cisco!

                love,
                --josie recognizing jody--
              • prakki surya
                my dear friend / friends 1) preaching which is convenient to hear, no need of doing anything extra, enjoy in the word only, should project greatest results
                Message 7 of 20 , Dec 12, 2005
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                  my dear friend / friends
                   
                  1) preaching which is convenient to hear, no need of doing anything extra, enjoy in the word only, should project greatest results like liberation in the end and may even becoming God Himself. it can be false also but even then does not matter. the messages must be crowd pulling type (like election campaigns with flowery english) and finally we may end up in nothing.

                  2) Truth is longstanding and acceptance is difficult because truth is always harsh. finally it only reamains. not crowd pulling type. it will be in-line with all the scriptures and the path followed by great devotees in the past.

                  these are the two possibilities and one has to select between these two and go ahead in that direction.
                   
                  Instead of this, not able to digest the true preaching or counter the logic, but resorting to personal attack is a mean method. Better is to keep silent on such posts which are not interesting to you so that let the interested people read and take the advantage of them.
                   
                  Jesus was offered kingdom by Satan to preach as per his liking. But Jesus has never modified or hiden the truth even though people were not able to appreciate. the true preaching unravels the hypocrisy in the devotion. This directly hits on the ego and hence results in so much of repulsion to human incarnation. This is not new and is happening from long back.
                   
                  Enough has been said to straighten otherwise leave to fate.

                  His servant
                  at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

                  jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                  <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
                  > Betraying the Lord is higher than the highest sin.This > shows the purity of the Lord and the importance that
                  > should be given to the Lord.
                  I am doing the work of the Lord by calling you out as
                  the psychotically grandiose wackjob nutbag that you are.

                  Come back to Earth, Datta. You are no more Dattatreya
                  than my dog.



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                • jodyrrr
                  ... wrote: [snip] ... And here you are, claiming to be the foremost incarnation of God Himself in the world today. What about Bhagavan
                  Message 8 of 20 , Dec 13, 2005
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                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                    <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

                    [snip]

                    > 2) Truth is longstanding and acceptance is difficult because
                    > truth is always harsh. finally it only reamains. not crowd
                    > pulling type. it will be in-line with all the scriptures
                    > and the path followed by great devotees in the past.

                    And here you are, claiming to be the foremost incarnation
                    of God Himself in the world today.

                    What about Bhagavan Kalki? Isn't he the foremost incarnation?

                    Or Sai Baba. Isn't he the foremost incarnation?

                    Both of these clowns have vast armies of devotees, and they
                    both claim to conform to scripture.

                    Why do they have so many devotees when you have
                    so few?
                  • jodyrrr
                    ... It s either all divine, or none of it is divine. There is no such thing as some people more divine than others. But there are brains more addled by
                    Message 9 of 20 , Dec 13, 2005
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                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "blueoceantiger"
                      <jkane@d...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                      > <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                      > > <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > [snip]
                      > >
                      > > > Betraying the Lord is higher than the highest sin. This
                      > > > shows the purity of the Lord and the importance that
                      > > > should be given to the Lord.
                      > >
                      > > I am doing the work of the Lord by calling you out as
                      > > the psychotically grandiose wackjob nutbag that you are.
                      > >
                      > > Come back to Earth, Datta. You are no more Dattatreya
                      > > than my dog.
                      > >
                      >
                      > i continue to love how you recognize who
                      > your dog really is. hallelujah to the
                      > spiritual message of jody & cisco!
                      >
                      > love,
                      > --josie recognizing jody--

                      It's either all divine, or none of it is divine.

                      There is no such thing as some people more divine
                      than others.

                      But there are brains more addled by narcissistic
                      need than others, hence the production known as
                      the world savior.

                      --jody.

                      PS: Cisco sends his love.
                    • prakki surya
                      Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami The first reason is that the preaching of a Satguru differs from the preaching of a false Guru. The Satguru
                      Message 10 of 20 , Dec 15, 2005
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                        Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami
                         
                        The first reason is that the preaching of a Satguru differs from the preaching of a false Guru. The Satguru shows the true path, which is full of thorns. The false Guru shows the flowery path. Therefore there is difference. You must choose the Satguru by knowing the characteristics of a Satguru from Vedas. The special knowledge that liberates love and bliss in your heart, which no one else can preach, is the main characterstic of the Lord in the human form (Satguru). He also does miracles only when ever there is necessity but not as exhibition. Like this one can recognize Satguru who is the Lord in human form.
                         
                        Some times there may be different human forms of Satguru existing in the same time to preach different people existing at different levels. One Satguru may be preaching some person and accidentally you must have gone there and heard His preaching. That person is in different level compared to your level, in such case the preaching of that Satguru will not suit to your level. You must catch Satguru who suits to your level. The Satguru whom you caught will preach you according to your level. Then you may think that there may be difference between the two Satgurus but you are not realizing that the two Satgurus taught at two different levels.
                         
                        Therefore you must eliminate the fraud Guru and choose the Satguru who suits to your level. You must stick to that Satguru of your level, so that you will not get any confusion in the preaching of various Satgurus.

                          posted by: His servant
                          at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
                          www.universal-spirituality.org

                        jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
                        > 2) Truth is longstanding and acceptance is difficult because > truth is always harsh. finally it only reamains. not crowd > pulling type. it will be in-line with all the scriptures > and the path followed by great devotees in the past.
                        And here you are, claiming to be the foremost incarnation of God Himself in the world today.
                        What about Bhagavan Kalki?  Isn't he the foremost incarnation?
                        Or Sai Baba.  Isn't he the foremost incarnation?
                        Both of these clowns have vast armies of devotees, and they both claim to conform to scripture.
                        Why do they have so many devotees when you have
                        so few?


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                      • jodyrrr
                        ... wrote: [snip] ... So says the fraudulent (and cowardly) satguru , beset by the fixed delusion that he is more of a God than the rest of
                        Message 11 of 20 , Dec 16, 2005
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                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                          <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

                          [snip]

                          > Therefore you must eliminate the fraud Guru and choose the Satguru

                          So says the fraudulent (and cowardly) "satguru", beset by the
                          fixed delusion that he is more of a God than the rest of us.

                          His mommy should have probably breast-fed him more.
                        • jodyrrr
                          Dear Swami Datta. If you are truly who you say you are, you should be able to deal with the likes of me, directly. The reason I m made upset is because you are
                          Message 12 of 20 , Dec 16, 2005
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                            Dear Swami Datta.

                            If you are truly who you say you are, you should
                            be able to deal with the likes of me, directly.

                            The reason I'm made upset is because you are
                            spreading erroneous ideas about self-realization,
                            based on your delusion and your knowledge of the
                            shastras. Hindu tradition or not, the idea of
                            the satguru as you propose it is superstitious
                            nonsense. You're another fool on the bus, Datta,
                            just like any of the rest of us. Another rabbit,
                            to use your metaphor.

                            There's nothing special about you, *except* for
                            your holding a fixed delusion about the nature of
                            your identity.

                            But if I'm wrong about you, you should take this
                            opportunity to tell us why, directly. Don't hide
                            behind the flowery prose and shower of scriptural
                            justification for yourself. Just tell us, man to
                            man, or God to man, why we should believe that *you*
                            are the satguru.

                            Sincerely,

                            --jody.
                          • bhalla sandeep
                            I may like to respond to the mail written to the sada gure. Well, could we in the first place have an introduction of this new entrant who has very
                            Message 13 of 20 , Dec 19, 2005
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                              I may like to respond to the mail written to the sada gure. Well, could we in the first place have an introduction of this new entrant  who has very confidently passed the verdict that all of us are fools on tha same bus. I may like to point out that it is not the flowery language of the scriptures that is important to be pointed out but the actual point in iitself tha the gentleman begs to differ on. The mail is entirely generic in nature and you may like to elucidate the aspects and guidence you are looking for, and if you dont need any then really dont see the point of you being a visitor here. Its obvious that you surely are in serch of something that you dont have and the first lesson that you may like to pick up is humility sir. You are free to interact with me hereafter and i shall reply to your misgivings. All are not fools for sure. Wisdom does not lie in your words or mine but much beyond the realms of words spoken... take care.. Sandeep

                              jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
                              Dear Swami Datta.

                              If you are truly who you say you are, you should
                              be able to deal with the likes of me, directly.

                              The reason I'm made upset is because you are
                              spreading erroneous ideas about self-realization,
                              based on your delusion and your knowledge of the
                              shastras.  Hindu tradition or not, the idea of
                              the satguru as you propose it is superstitious
                              nonsense.  You're another fool on the bus, Datta,
                              just like any of the rest of us. Another rabbit,
                              to use your metaphor.

                              There's nothing special about you, *except* for
                              your holding a fixed delusion about the nature of
                              your identity.

                              But if I'm wrong about you, you should take this
                              opportunity to tell us why, directly.  Don't hide
                              behind the flowery prose and shower of scriptural
                              justification for yourself.  Just tell us, man to
                              man, or God to man, why we should believe that *you*
                              are the satguru.

                              Sincerely,

                              --jody.




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                            • prakki surya
                              Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami Any human being cannot do any work just by will even after long concentration. The same work happens as soon
                              Message 14 of 20 , Dec 19, 2005
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                                Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami
                                 
                                Any human being cannot do any work just by will even after long concentration.  The same work happens as soon as the Lord wishes just once.  This whole Universe is created just by His one wish.  The faith is a long time concentrated will power.  The will is common in both the Lord and human being.  The will is a characteristic of awareness.  This awareness is common item in both the Lord and the human being.  Therefore, will is also a common item in both the Lord and soul (human being).  All these worlds are created just by one wish of the Lord.  But even if the soul wishes one crore times in a highly concentrated way called “Faith”, even an atom is not created.  When both are forms of awareness, why this vast difference comes?  Just the one wish of the Lord appears as the solid Universe to all the souls!  Even the highly concentrated will of a soul is not appearing as materialized form to other souls.  Such will is not even appearing as imagination to other souls.  It is appearing as imagination only to that particular soul, which imagined so.  In one house the bulb is not glowing in-spite of putting on the switch several times.  But in another house, the bulb is glowing when just once its switch is put on.  In both the houses, same switches, same wires and same bulbs exist.  But, the difference is that in the first house, there is no current.  In the second house, there is current.  Similarly in the awareness of soul, God (Parabrahman) does not exist.  In the awareness of the Lord, God exists.  This awareness is called as Brahman, because awareness, which is the first creation of God, is greatest among all the items of creation.  Brahman means anything, which is greatest among a category of items.  The word Parabrahman means God or Creator, who is beyond Brahman.  Due to the power of God only, creation takes place.  Mere awareness has no such power to create this Universe.  This awareness is the will or imagination of God.  This Universe appears always as imagination only to God.  This Universe itself is an ocean of awareness.  The soul is a drop in it.  The power of the ocean is far greater than the power of the drop.  Due to this only, this universe appears as materialized solid to the soul.  This whole universe is again a drop only in the awareness created by God in the beginning, which is called as “Mula Prakruti” or “Maha Maya”.  God does not exist in the Universe.  Therefore, this Universe becomes a scene to the spectator-God.  Scene must be different from the spectator.  The “Mula Prakruti” into which God entered and pervaded is called as Lord (Eswara). 
                                 
                                This Lord is spectator and Universe is scene.  Thus, both the Scene and the outer cover of Brahman are forms of awareness only.  The soul is also a form of awareness.  Soul – Universe –Spectator become greater and greater as we pass on.  God is neither in the Universe nor is in the soul.  Therefore, both these have no power of creation.  Spectatorship is the characteristic of the awareness.  Therefore, even the soul is a spectator.  But the soul can see its own imaginary world as imagination and the Universe as reality.  It cannot see this Universe as imagination.  For the Lord only, this Universe including all the souls is an imagination. 
                                 
                                The Lord knows and sees everything in the Universe.  But the soul sees and knows only a little in the Universe.  Thus the spectatorship also differs in both the cases.  The soul can see and knows everything of its own imaginary world only.  Though, the Universe is entirely awareness, a part of it becomes spectator in the form of souls and another part is inert which does not see or know anything.  This difference took place only by the will of the Lord.  Therefore, a soul cannot throw away this difference created by the Lord and cannot treat both as one and the same awareness.  The soul cannot say that the whole Universe has spectatorship.  Some claim that they have realized the entire Universe as one awareness, which is totally against their own experience.  Such experience of difference is the will of the Lord and so they behave differently for all practical purposes. No scholar talks with a stone!  A stone cannot preach you and remove your ignorance for all practical purposes.  Even the Lord views both the soul and inert matter differently as per their status, but He views both as His imagination.  But the soul cannot see both as his imagination and the soul also views both differently like the Lord.  If you refer to the external form of the Lord only, which is awareness, both the external form of Lord and the entire soul are one and the same.  The difference is that the Lord is God embraced by the awareness, where as the soul is mere awareness.  The Lord is the wire with current, where as the soul is the wire without current. 
                                 
                                Therefore, the soul cannot achieve anything in this world just by faith only.  Its external actions may achieve something in this world but not its mere internal will.  Even this external action becomes sometimes invalid, because the field of its action is the world, which is without God.  Some say that everything is possible by self-confidence or faith.  But this statement is laudable only till it is not analysed!  The wire without current cannot create even a ray of light in the bulb.  People believe that self-faith can achieve anything and therefore, they conclude that the self itself is the Lord.  Anything is possible only to the Lord.  If a soul wishes to make everything possible, the only way is to catch the Lord and please Him.  “Self-Faith’ means the faith that is concentrated on the Lord, who came down as a self or as a human being.  For the sake of the convenience of the soul to achieve such goal, the Lord comes down as a soul.  The faith in such soul, to believe it as the Lord is called as “Self-Faith”.  All the power of God is present in such human incarnation, because God and His power are beyond the spatial dimensions. 
                                 
                                  posted by: His servant
                                  at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
                                  www.universal-spirituality.org


                                bhalla sandeep <gradbm@...> wrote:
                                I may like to respond to the mail written to the sada gure. Well, could we in the first place have an introduction of this new entrant  who has very confidently passed the verdict that all of us are fools on tha same bus. I may like to point out that it is not the flowery language of the scriptures that is important to be pointed out but the actual point in iitself tha the gentleman

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                              • jodyrrr
                                ... My name is Jody, I ve been active on these message boards since 1998, and I write a blog called guruphiliac.org. ... My point to being here is to express
                                Message 15 of 20 , Dec 19, 2005
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                                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, bhalla sandeep
                                  <gradbm@y...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I may like to respond to the mail written to the sada gure. Well,
                                  > could we in the first place have an introduction of this new
                                  > entrant who has very confidently passed the verdict that all
                                  > of us are fools on tha same bus.

                                  My name is Jody, I've been active on these message
                                  boards since 1998, and I write a blog called guruphiliac.org.

                                  > I may like to point out that it is not the flowery language of
                                  > the scriptures that is important to be pointed out but the actual
                                  > point in iitself tha the gentleman begs to differ on. The mail is
                                  > entirely generic in nature and you may like to elucidate the
                                  > aspects and guidence you are looking for, and if you dont need
                                  > any then really dont see the point of you being a visitor here.

                                  My point to being here is to express this truth: nobody is
                                  more divine than anyone else.

                                  > Its obvious that you surely are in serch of something that you
                                  > dont have and the first lesson that you may like to pick up is
                                  > humility sir.

                                  I am in search of one thing, to identify and eliminate
                                  occluding ideas in spiritual culture. One of these is
                                  the idea that self-realization makes you more divine
                                  than you were before. Not true. We are either always
                                  divine, or never divine, regardless of our status as
                                  realizers.

                                  The person in need of some humility around here is
                                  Datta, who claims to be God moreso than you and I.

                                  > You are free to interact with me hereafter and i shall
                                  > reply to your misgivings. All are not fools for sure.

                                  Some don't like to think of themselves as such, true.
                                  However, as human beings on the planet, we all share
                                  divinity, equally.

                                  The "fools on the bus" line is a lyric from a song
                                  popular in the U.S. in the early 90s. It suggests that
                                  our humanity makes us all equals in a gently mocking
                                  tone. Taking oneself too seriously is a disease of
                                  the mind which Swami Datta is suffering from.

                                  > Wisdom does not lie in your words or mine but much
                                  > beyond the realms of words spoken... take care.. Sandeep

                                  True. However, some words spring from lives with
                                  access to that which is beyond words, and some
                                  spring from the psychotic delusion that they are
                                  an incarnated deity.

                                  --jody.

                                  > jodyrrr <jodyrrr@y...> wrote: Dear Swami Datta.
                                  >
                                  > If you are truly who you say you are, you should
                                  > be able to deal with the likes of me, directly.
                                  >
                                  > The reason I'm made upset is because you are
                                  > spreading erroneous ideas about self-realization,
                                  > based on your delusion and your knowledge of the
                                  > shastras. Hindu tradition or not, the idea of
                                  > the satguru as you propose it is superstitious
                                  > nonsense. You're another fool on the bus, Datta,
                                  > just like any of the rest of us. Another rabbit,
                                  > to use your metaphor.
                                  >
                                  > There's nothing special about you, *except* for
                                  > your holding a fixed delusion about the nature of
                                  > your identity.
                                  >
                                  > But if I'm wrong about you, you should take this
                                  > opportunity to tell us why, directly. Don't hide
                                  > behind the flowery prose and shower of scriptural
                                  > justification for yourself. Just tell us, man to
                                  > man, or God to man, why we should believe that *you*
                                  > are the satguru.
                                  >
                                  > Sincerely,
                                  >
                                  > --jody.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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                                • jodyrrr
                                  ... wrote: [snop] ... Bring it on, you psychotically grandiose nincompoop. If you are God, smite me where I stand, because I am utterly
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Dec 19, 2005
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                                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                                    <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

                                    [snop]

                                    > All the power of God is present in such human incarnation,
                                    > because God and His power are beyond the spatial dimensions.

                                    Bring it on, you psychotically grandiose nincompoop.
                                    If you are God, smite me where I stand, because I am
                                    utterly opposed to the deluded nonsense you are spewing
                                    like vomit around here.
                                  • prakki surya
                                    Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami Q) Was the Lord not satisfied with Himself that He started this dolls-play of creation with animals, plants and
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Dec 19, 2005
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                                      Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami
                                       

                                      Q) Was the Lord not satisfied with Himself that He started this dolls-play of creation with animals, plants and humans? For the Lord it is a game to engage souls in deeds and then clear their sins (or good deeds). If He has set the rules of the game and He has predetermined how much sin of each soul to clear in one birth, then does the soul have no independent will and freedom of choice? Should we just do our duty as told in the Gita and not worry about steering our own lives as we see fit?

                                       

                                      Infact the Lord is satisfied by Himself as said in the Brahma Sutra (Lokavattu Leela Kaivalyam). The Lord gets satisfaction when His devotee gets satisfied. The essential aim of this creation for the God is only the sweetness of love. The Lord enjoys the sweetness in the love of His devotees to Him. The Devotees enjoy the same sweetness of love of God to them. Therefore, the devotees who are satisfied with such sweet love will not put this question. Only the devotees who could not get such love which flows to both sides are subjected to this question. Such devotees love these unreal bonds in this world.
                                       
                                      They do not get satisfaction because when such love is analyzed, the inner selfishness comes out. When the essence of such love is realized, this question comes to the mind and the creation looks waste. They have seen only the false love of the world but have not seen the true love of God. If they enter the spiritual line and experience the true love of the Lord, they will certainly find the necessity of this wonderful creation. Without this creation the existence of such divine love is not possible. Therefore, on realizing the false love in this world one has to turn towards God to experience the real love. When they experience the divine love they will appreciate the Creator, the Creation and the aim of the Creation. Thus the game, which is the aim of the Creation, is not just for the selfish satisfaction of the Lord. In fact the divine love is more enjoyed by the soul than the Lord. The reason is that the Lord Himself is an infinite ocean of bliss and does not require any more enjoyment.
                                       
                                      It is actually the soul, which is an infinite ocean of worry and misery enjoys the divine love, which contains bliss. Sri Rama Krishna Paramahamsa told that He likes to be the ant to enjoy the sugar than to be the sugar itself. The ant, which is not sugar, enjoys more the sugar. The sugar being itself the sugar cannot enjoy the sweetness. In fact even the Lord imposes ignorance on Him and becomes an ordinary soul to enjoy really this sweetness of divine love. Hanuman was the incarnation of the Lord Shiva. He cannot enjoy the divine love of the Lord to a devotee. Therefore, He imposed ignorance on Himself and became a devotee. Hanuman enjoyed the divine love of the Lord Rama more than Rama Himself. Infact Rama also could enjoy the divine love by imposing self-ignorance and by acting as an ordinary human being. Therefore, this game is more meaningful for the sake of the souls than the Lord Himself. The Lord transfers the evil results of such real devotees to Himself and enjoys actually the misery. By this the devotee enjoys permanent happiness. Therefore, this game of the world is finally resulting in the permanent happiness of devotees (souls) only and not for the enjoyment of the Lord.
                                       
                                      The rules of the game are well defined. Violation is not possible as long as you are in the field of Pravrutti. Even in Pravrutti if you accept and surrender to Lord unlike the atheist, some concession is given as the rearrangement of the results i.e., postponing and pre-poning. Since, the interest is increased and decreased respectively, the concession is not beyond the rules of justice. When the person to whom you have to pay the loan comes to you, he may postpone the payment on your request but will not cancel the interest. But in the Nivrutti the loan and the interest is cancelled. But the Lord pays all that for your sake. The main purpose of the human incarnation is only this. Through human body, He suffers as you suffer. He will not avoid suffering using His super power because it will be again cheating the justice.
                                       
                                      Thus, the rules of the game, which are called, as the administration of justice is never violated either in Pravrutti or Nivrutti. But you have the full freedom in the game to win or to be defeated. The rules will not affect your chances of either success or defeat. You have to play the game following rules. Sometimes the rules may help you to succeed. When the soul with its subtle body returns to the earth with a gross body as a baby, the subtle body contains very little remains of the original qualities. In the hell the intensity of these qualities is very much reduced. The remains of these qualities are called as Karma Sesha (Remains of deeds). Actually it is Samskara Sesha (Remains of qualities). People misunderstand at this point and think that the subtle body is associated with the remains of the deeds. The deed is inert and cannot be present in the life energy (Subtle body). Only a quality, which is a wave of the life energy, can remain in the subtle body. When a thief was beaten in the police station and is left, he comes out with reduced intensity in his quality of steeling. The deed of steeling does not remain with the thief. It is this remainder of quality that generates its corresponding deed of steeling. The remaining quality of steeling grows in the encouraging atmosphere and generates the deed of steeling. Now you are caught and again punished. For the second punishment, which is the cause? The root cause is only the remaining quality of steeling. Thus, you are said that you are undergoing the result of the past deed. The word "Past deed" means the past remaining quality only. If that past remaining quality is destroyed, there is no second punishment. How to destroy the quality? The quality is made of life energy and is constituted by wrong knowledge. Therefore, only the right divine knowledge can destroy the quality. If the qualities are destroyed by the divine knowledge the deeds are destroyed. This is said in Gita, "Jnanagnih Sarva Karmani …..", which means that divine knowledge can destroy all the deeds. What is this divine knowledge? It is the knowledge of the Lord, your self and path to attain Him and please Him. If He is pleased, He will give you the divine knowledge and all the deeds are burnt. If you are unable to use the knowledge fully and if some deeds are still left over due to your improper assimilation of knowledge, the Lord will burn those deeds also by suffering with those results. The Lord clearly stated in Gita that the divine knowledge alone could relieve you from all the sins. Once you are determined due to the divine knowledge you will practice it without any doubt. The result of that is the full grace of the Lord.
                                       
                                      The divine knowledge consists of two parts 1) If you are in Pravrutti (path of justice) only, you can attain your self by the self-realization. In this you will be fixed in the self and get detached from the both subtle and gross bodies. By this all the bonds related to gross body and related to feelings (Subtle body) are cut off and you will attain the eternal peace. All your worries, anxiety, tensions, misery, mental pain, dissatisfaction, confusion etc., will disappear forever. You will live with perfect peace through out your life. Peace is your property, which is the characteristic of your soul. You have to think that you are the pure awareness, which is stand still (called as Atman or soul). When you are attached to the gross body or subtle body (Mind), you have lost the peace. If you are attached to the casual body (soul), you have gained your lost peace.
                                       
                                      2) In Nivrutti (path of liberation) you attain the Lord who has come in the human form for your sake to give the bliss. Bliss is only the characteristic of Lord as said in Veda (Anando Brahma……). Veda also says that the Lord alone can give bliss to the soul (Eshahyeva Anandayati……). Bliss is not characteristic of the soul. Your property is only the golden chain and not the diamond necklace. You should not think that peace is bliss. By your effort you can attain only peace but not the bliss. You can get the bliss only by nearing yourself to Sadguru who is the human incarnation. You can get the cool breeze when you are near the sea on the shore. If you are in the house, you have avoided the hot sun. By attaining the soul you have come to zero from minus, but that is not plus. Zero is within yourself and bliss is from external agency. When you have attained what you have, it is avoiding loss, which can give only peace but not the bliss.
                                       
                                      Thus, the divine knowledge of Sadguru gives you atleast peace, which is the earth, if not the bliss, which is the sky. He will give you the knowledge of Atman to give peace. This is essential requirement for anyone in this world. A few blessed people can also get the bliss if they realise that the Sadguru is the Lord Himself. Therefore, you must utilise the full freedom given to you in this human birth and you must destroy all your sins permanently through Nivrutti only. You should be very active to use this unlimited freedom within the limited span of lifetime. When you leave this gross body and go to upper worlds you have no freedom at all and those upper worlds hence are called as " Bhoga Loka" which mean that they are the worlds in which the results are to be enjoyed without any freedom. This earth is called as "Karma Loka" which means the world in which you are given full freedom to do anything. You are given the opportunity to receive the divine knowledge here and if you practice it by determination, your entire fate is changed here and there also.
                                       
                                      The sages did long penance and sat in the process of self-realization for several ages. They obtained peace of the self but not bliss of the Brahman. Then they realized and approached Lord Krishna as Gopikas for the bliss, which they got in Brindavanam in the vicinity of the Lord (Sayujyam). You can smile or laugh with bliss only by attaining the Lord in human form. You can get atleast a shadow of the bliss by remembering the Lord. But without any external agency you cannot get happiness or bliss. If you are peaceful and silent, no body will ask you the reason but if you are laughing and dancing in bliss stating that there is no external reason for it, it is unnatural and people will admit you in the mental hospital.
                                       
                                        posted by: His servant
                                        at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
                                        www.universal-spirituality.org

                                      jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
                                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya<dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

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                                    • jodyrrr
                                      ... wrote: [snip] Another gratuitous expression of inflated nonsense and another cowardly act and failure to fill the shoes of those who
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Dec 19, 2005
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                                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                                        <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

                                        [snip]

                                        Another gratuitous expression of inflated nonsense and
                                        another cowardly act and failure to fill the shoes of
                                        those who have been called satgurus.
                                      • prakki surya
                                        Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami For a soul, this world is real and is called as Maya or Vikshepa. The world is the imagination of the Lord but
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Dec 20, 2005
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                                          Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami
                                           
                                          For a soul, this world is real and is called as Maya or Vikshepa. The world is the imagination of the Lord but it is real for all the souls.  The world is not the imagination of the soul.  The imagination of the soul is dream, which is called as Avidya or Avaranam. The Vikshepa and avaranam are made of ignorance.  But the former ignorance is apparent only and the Lord has full awareness during the ignorance.  It is called as “Saatvika Maya” which means the ignorance illuminated with knowledge. It is just like a daydream of a dreamer who is in fully awakened state.  The Avaranam has no knowledge and is deep ignorance only.  It is like a night dream.  The Lord is the daydreamer and soul is night dreamer.  The Lord controls the dream and soul is controlled by dream.  The soul can destroy its avidya but can never destroy the Maya.  Avidya is the imagination or feeling of the soul and can disappear by the knowledge. But Maya is the materialised world for the soul and can never disappear. The soul is pure awareness and is called as atman or the causal body. The gross body is made of five elements. Both these bodies are part of Maya and can never be destroyed by the soul.  The pure awareness is eternal.  The five elements of the gross body are also eternal.  The subtle body, which is made of qualities or feelings or imaginations of the soul, can be destroyed by the soul through knowledge.  The subtle body is made of ignorance of the soul and can be destroyed by the scholar. 
                                           
                                          After death this subtle body only goes to the other worlds. For a liberated soul, since the subtle body is destroyed, he does not go to the other worlds. The causal body and the gross body merge in the cosmos here it self as said by Veda (Ihaiva Pranah….).  In the case of human incarnation also, same thing happens but the fourth item, the Lord, is left over. The advaita Philosophers should note this difference between Maya and Avidya. Sankara clearly told that the Avaranam disappears by knowledge but not Vikshepa.

                                          The highest stage is not to aspire anything from the Lord. The Lord does everything according to His judgement and your deeds.  The desire cannot bring any reaction in the Lord.  Some devotees cry with very loud voice and do several actions for help from the Lord.  The cry also will not bring any trace of reaction in the Lord.  Draupadi cried for help from the Lord. The Lord did not react for the cry.  Draupadi tore her sari to apply bandage to the finger of the Lord when it was cut.  It was this deed that made the Lord to help her. The Lord would have helped her even without her cry.  The Lord was watching the situation and was ready for the correct moment to act.  The merit point in the cry of Draupadi was that she believed Lord Krishna as omnipresent and did not confine the Lord to His limited body.  Therefore, she cried in the court itself even though the Lord was in far place. Devotion without any aspiration is the best.  The next middle level devotion is to believe the Lord as omnipresent and pray at any place.  The lower level of devotion is to try to inform the human incarnation personally.  This is an insult to the Lord because you do not believe the Lord in human form as omnipresent atleast. 
                                           
                                          If you think that the Lord is not omnipresent how can He help you as omnipotent?  Above all this, the main point is whether the devotee requests or not, the protection from the Lord comes only based on the selfless service offered by him to the Lord without aspiring any fruit in return.  When such service is absent, the Lord cannot do any help merely based on their requests or prayers and crying. Therefore, there is no need of prayer or request or crying to the Lord if the selfless service is absent. There is also no need of prayer or request or crying to the Lord if the selfless service is present. Therefore, a devotee should always concentrate on the selfless service to the Lord without aspiring any fruit in return and the prayer should be only in the praise of the Lord and not for asking any boon or protection because even if you ask there is no trace of any use.
                                           
                                            posted by: His servant
                                            at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
                                            www.universal-spirituality.org
                                           

                                          jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
                                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

                                          Another gratuitous expression of inflated nonsense and
                                          another cowardly act and failure to fill the shoes of
                                          those who have been called satgurus.

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                                        • jodyrrr
                                          ... wrote: More gratuitous nonsense that s the product of nothing more than an incredibly puffed-up ego.
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Dec 20, 2005
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                                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                                            <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

                                            More gratuitous nonsense that's the product of
                                            nothing more than an incredibly puffed-up ego.
                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.