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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Meditation practice and a busy life

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  • Sandeep
    *Matt/Sashi, There is the act of meditational technique, which is durational, time-space-specific..... ...... and there is a gestalt of meditativeness, from
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 29, 2005
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      Matt/Sashi,



      There is the act of meditational technique, which is durational, time-space-specific.....
      ...... and there is a gestalt of meditativeness, from which arises, everything whether it is  the act of changing a baby diaper or the act of Paranayam.

      The gestalt of meditativeness is not conditional to anything.

      Including, that it is not
      conditional to anything.

      If it is, it is not meditativeness.

      It is this meditativeness, which is the awareness of the arising/dissipitating thought(s), the taking delivering of the thoughts and their external actualization, viz the physical action......... which thus creates  the sense of personal doership (It is I who is getting pissed off at this screaming toddler, or why am I not reaching Nirvana as this meditation book/Guru had promised, etc etc) ......

      .......which thus infers the sense of the entitification, the sense of the existential, independent, separated reality of an "Matt" or a "Shashi".

      When this entire and constant hoopla,........... ocurring moment after moment after moment, is apperceived......

      .....the gestalt of meditativeness.

      Which ever shines, whether you are chasing to close a sales pitch, or get a kid to eat her beans.

      Or whether doing intense Kapal Bhatti or reflecting on the Self with a capital S.




       



      Shashi Sadhu wrote:
      Namaste
      I have the same question as Matt. I am a working mom with 2 toddler girls. I barely have time to keep the discipline of meditating every morning. One thing I try to do is do my practice every night before I go to bed be it for at leas 10 minutes.
      I would like to really hear from others in similar shoes as mine.
      Shashi

      Matt Ready <mattready@...> wrote:
      Hello everyone,

      I am really enjoying the dialogue with this group.  I treasure the practice of meditation yet I struggle with maintaining the discipline to practice regularly.  I was wondering if any of you have overwhelmingly busy lives with family and kids and if you have any tips on how to keep you on practice?

      I know one thing I have been looking for is other people who also value meditation...and although I haven't found many I can meet face to face, I am very happy to have found this group.

      Matt


      ******************************************************
      A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity;
      an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
      --Sir Winston Churchill

      Shashi Sadhu
      510-226-6008
    • Sandeep
      *Thus it is not whether in Life...... discrete , separated acts of meditational methodology is happening,....... whether for 10 mins or 10 hours.......
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 29, 2005
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        Thus it is not whether in Life...... discrete , separated acts  of meditational methodology is happening,....... whether for 10 mins or 10 hours.......

        ......but whether it is a meditative Life that is occurring...... moment after moment after moment.......

        .......irrespective of the content of the moment.

        A meditativeness which is irrespective of energetic toddlers running circles around you ....

        .... irrespective of the pressures to pay the monthly bills....

        .... and irrespective of the act of sitting in zazen or whatever is the favourite technique.

         


        Sandeep wrote:
        Matt/Sashi,



        There is the act of meditational technique, which is durational, time-space-specific.....
        ...... and there is a gestalt of meditativeness, from which arises, everything whether it is  the act of changing a baby diaper or the act of Paranayam.

        The gestalt of meditativeness is not conditional to anything.

        Including, that it is not
        conditional to anything.

        If it is, it is not meditativeness.

        It is this meditativeness, which is the awareness of the arising/dissipitating thought(s), the taking delivering of the thoughts and their external actualization, viz the physical action......... which thus creates  the sense of personal doership (It is I who is getting pissed off at this screaming toddler, or why am I not reaching Nirvana as this meditation book/Guru had promised, etc etc) ......

        .......which thus infers the sense of the entitification, the sense of the existential, independent, separated reality of an "Matt" or a "Shashi".

        When this entire and constant hoopla,........... ocurring moment after moment after moment, is apperceived......

        .....the gestalt of meditativeness.

        Which ever shines, whether you are chasing to close a sales pitch, or get a kid to eat her beans.

        Or whether doing intense Kapal Bhatti or reflecting on the Self with a capital S.




         



        Shashi Sadhu wrote:
        Namaste
        I have the same question as Matt. I am a working mom with 2 toddler girls. I barely have time to keep the discipline of meditating every morning. One thing I try to do is do my practice every night before I go to bed be it for at leas 10 minutes.
        I would like to really hear from others in similar shoes as mine.
        Shashi

        Matt Ready <mattready@...> wrote:
        Hello everyone,

        I am really enjoying the dialogue with this group.  I treasure the practice of meditation yet I struggle with maintaining the discipline to practice regularly.  I was wondering if any of you have overwhelmingly busy lives with family and kids and if you have any tips on how to keep you on practice?

        I know one thing I have been looking for is other people who also value meditation...and although I haven't found many I can meet face to face, I am very happy to have found this group.

        Matt


        ******************************************************
        A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity;
        an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
        --Sir Winston Churchill

        Shashi Sadhu
        510-226-6008
      • Tony Osime2
        Matt and Shashi, Thanks for this question: One of the things I have learnt from meditation is that the value of life is not the quantity of things you do but
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 30, 2005
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          Matt and Shashi, Thanks for this question:

          One of the things I have learnt from meditation is that the value of life is
          not the quantity of things you do but the quality of things you do. As you
          meditate you will come to appreciate the quality of the time you spend
          meditating and how this quality time improves the quality of the time you
          spend outside meditation.

          Too busy is simply a frame of mind. Meditation helps you look at this frame
          and decide if it is a nice frame to have or maybe another frame would be
          better. Approach your meditation with the perspective of it helping you to
          appreciate the true value of time and this will improve your frame of mind.

          With this new frame of mind you will find that the quality of your life
          improves as you make better decisions on what you do day to day. The fact
          that you have asked this question tells me you are already on your way to a
          higher quality life.

          On a more practical note, I have found that my meditation adapts to the time
          I give to meditation. So I would not worry too much about how long you spend
          meditating, but make sure you meditate regularly. As you get into a good
          rhythm of regular meditation, your mind will adapt and make the best use of
          the time you do give. If you are not regular, your progress will be very
          slow as too much energy will be used in the setting up for the deeper levels
          of meditation.

          Tony Osime
          _____________________________________________
          In Plain English - Please do not use this email or send it to anyone without
          asking me first. Let me know if you got it in error.
        • doug
          Hi Matt and Sashi. In addition to Jeff s suggestion I d add two things. First, it s important to not allow the momentum of life s circumstances to dominate
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 30, 2005
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            Hi Matt and Sashi.

            In addition to Jeff's suggestion I'd add two things. First, it's
            important to not allow the momentum of life's circumstances to dominate
            your ability to sit regularly. Sometimes it requires a warrior's
            attitude to fight that momentum and do whatever it takes to "slot in"
            your time to meditate and make circumstances bend to your needs. This is
            not just an issue of will however, it is also a very necessary and very
            important shift in attitude towards circumstances generally.
            Circumstances are one of the most significant forces disturbing our
            minds and it's important to take a firm, conscious stand about them
            right from the beginning. By resisting circumstances to the extent that
            you can actually sit down for 20 minutes a day you will in fact be
            making such a stand.

            Second, again in addition to Jeff's methods you can also approach your
            day to day circumstances in a meditative fashion by working at not
            judging those circumstances. By not judging you will retain a calmer
            mind and you will therefore enable a deeper seeing into the true nature
            of those circumstances and then be able to respond from a clearer, more
            accurate postion. This same meditative technique can be applied to all
            of the people you are dealing with in those circumstances.

            Good luck in your practice.

            Cheers, Doug.

            ________________________________
            http://www.mymeditationcave.com
          • prakki surya
            dear friends Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami The Divine preaching of Holy Jesus is the top most Gospel in the world and touches the climax of
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 30, 2005
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              Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami

              The Divine preaching of Holy Jesus is the top most Gospel in the world and touches the climax of the truth.  For example Holy Krishna says in Gita that one should withdraw himself from the family bonds slowly like a tortoise withdrawing its limbs (Kurmo ngaaneeva).  The tradition of Datta is to cut the family bonds by the Sword of Knowledge as per Gita (Jnanaasi natmanah). 
               
               But Holy Jesus says that one should hate these family bonds to become His disciple.  Cutting the bond is Zero.  Existing in the bond is Plus and hating the bond is Minus.  Zero is near to Plus and Minus is very far.  So if you cut the bond it may form again.  But if you hate the bond the bond will never be formed so that the bond with the Lord alone is eternal.
               
                See the preaching of Lord Jesus with impartial attitude and without conservatism.  After all a diamond is diamond whether it is foreign diamond or Indian diamond.  Thus Holy Jesus is the king of all the divine preachers.  He is like the Sun from whom these divine sentences radiate like rays.

              Holy Bible speaks about the ever-lasting fire and that the souls have no rebirth. Hindu scriptures say that the soul has rebirth. Both these can be convinced and co-related. The condemned souls enter the everlasting fire, which means that these souls take the births as animals, birds, worms etc, which are like the fire due to the continuous agony.  The word “everlasting” means that once the soul enters into the cycle of these births the soul will never come back to the human birth. The rebirth as a human being as told in the Hindu scriptures can be again co-related with the Holy Bible.
               
              Holy Jesus says that the Kingdom of God is extended into this world. The meaning of this is that whenever God comes in human form to stay with us (Immanuel), the disciples of the Lord will be staying in this divine Kingdom on the throwns equally with the Lord. This means the servants of the Lord will take rebirth as human beings and will be preaching here and they will be respected like God.
               
              For Ex: The Holy Pope is given the status of God. The Holy Pope and other such top most Bishops and pious Fathers who are indulged in the propagation of the knowledge will get the status of God here itself in this world. Thus, the inner sense is the same in all the scriptures, which is spoken in different ways. The ways are different but the real essence is the same.
               
              The aim of human life is to achieve the grace that is the love of God. Even if you earn more money you are not carrying it after death.  Very little money is sufficient to eat and drink which the animals and the birds are also doing even without money.  If the aim of the money is only eating, drinking and enjoying, you will be born as animal or bird or worm in the next birth.
               
               If your file is opened in the upper world you will not get definitely the human birth. When you serve the Lord in this world when He comes in the human form then only you can get human birth without any enquiry in order to serve the Lord when the Lord reincarnates. You must recognize the Lord by His knowledge, because Veda says that knowledge is Brahman.
               
              Only miracles are not the signs since demons also performed miracles. Gita says that the Lord comes down in human form (Maanusheem tanu masritam). Gita also says that it is very difficult to worship formless (Avyaktahi).  Gita also says that if one worships the inert statue, he will be born as a stone (Bhutejya yanti Bhutani). 
               
               So you must serve the Lord by doing practical service which consists of 1) Sacrifice of work 2) Sacrifice of fruit of work (money), which is also a form of work. The Sacrifice must be to the full extent. When a beggar gives one rupee that is greater than one lakh given by a multi lakhier because the beggar has sacrificed what ever he possessed.  Holy Jesus appreciated one old lady who donated whatever she possessed, as the highest divine soul.
               
                posted by: His servant
                at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
                www.universal-spirituality.org


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            • mani kumara
              I agree.while same place same meditation time is the best thing,but it is a luxury few can aford.When i read Echart tolle s power of now,i realise that
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 30, 2005
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                I agree.while same place same meditation time is the best thing,but it is a luxury few can aford.When i read Echart tolle's power of now,i realise that meditation is being aware all the time.To still the chattering mind nothing more is required than just quiet non participative oservation.whatever we are doing being aware of that tantamounts to mediation i think.
                T.k.Mani


                Shashi Sadhu <shashisadhu@...> wrote:
                Namaste
                I have the same question as Matt. I am a working mom with 2 toddler girls. I barely have time to keep the discipline of meditating every morning. One thing I try to do is do my practice every night before I go to bed be it for at leas 10 minutes.
                I would like to really hear from others in similar shoes as mine.
                Shashi

                Matt Ready <mattready@...> wrote:
                Hello everyone,

                I am really enjoying the dialogue with this group.  I treasure the practice of meditation yet I struggle with maintaining the discipline to practice regularly.  I was wondering if any of you have overwhelmingly busy lives with family and kids and if you have any tips on how to keep you on practice?

                I know one thing I have been looking for is other people who also value meditation...and although I haven't found many I can meet face to face, I am very happy to have found this group.

                Matt


                ******************************************************
                A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity;
                an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
                --Sir Winston Churchill

                Shashi Sadhu
                510-226-6008

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              • jodyrrr
                ... So is Datta s brain if he believes he s an incarnation of Dattatreya.
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
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                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                  <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami
                  > 1
                  >
                  > The statue or photo is the inert object.

                  So is Datta's brain if he believes he's an
                  incarnation of Dattatreya.
                • prakki surya
                  Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami Rejection Of Incarnation – Same Cinema In Christianity Jesus is called as Emmanuel, which means that God
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
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                    Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami
                    Rejection Of Incarnation – Same Cinema

                    In Christianity Jesus is called as Emmanuel, which means that God comes down from heaven to live with us. Only a human form can live with us and guide us through knowledge. The Popes at that time also did not believe Jesus as God or at least as Son of God or even as messenger of the God. They did not like the God to be introduced in human being as you say now. They believed only the dead messengers and not Jesus, who was the then messenger. The same logic applies today also. You believe the messenger who does not exist now. You do not believe the messenger who now exists before your eyes. Jesus told that He would come again. It means that the same human incarnation will come again and the same story repeats. The same Jesus is present today and the same people who were blind with egoism and jealousy are present again today. Therefore, I say, the history repeats.
                     
                    As Jesus was insulted, then, today also the egoistic and jealous people will insult Jesus. Jesus will come in every human generation to give His direct contact. Otherwise, God Jesus becomes partial, because He gave direct contact to one generation only and not to the other generations. He clarified the doubts of one generation only through His direct voice and now He allows the immature human devotees to answer the doubts directly in the other human generations. He provided the fortune of touching His feet in one generation only and other generations are deprived of that fortune. This makes Jesus totally partial and you say that God is impartial. All the religions also say the same. How can you justify this important statement that God is impartial? Therefore, we have accepted that God is coming in human form like Jesus in every human generation. To avoid answer to this, you are saying that reasoning should be avoided. When reasoning is discarded, you need not answer any question. Whatever you say that must be the truth. You are rigid without any logic and this is the blind conservatism. This cancer is present in every religion and humanity is always is divided by this cancer. You are opposing the unity of humanity and want to disturb the world peace. God will not tolerate you, and you will be thrown in to permanent hell for misleading the ignorant people.
                     
                    If you see Bible, Jesus gives reason everywhere in His concepts. For every statement He gives the reason. When the priests asked Him that He should not have saved the animal, which has fallen in the pit on the festival day, He gave the reason for His effort to save that animal. He analyzed the Old Testament and gave logical interpretations. He did not mind to cut some irrational blind statements present in the Old Testament, by giving rational modifications. He has fulfilled His duty to be the true guide of the humanity. Whenever He leaves the world these rigid people twist and pollute the meanings of scriptures. To rectify He comes again and again. When the teacher leaves for a few minutes the class becomes undisciplined. The teacher comes to the class again and again. For teaching, the human form is essential.
                     
                    A statue cannot teach you. If you think Him formless, He is not speaking to you from the sky or space or air. The human body is most convenient medium for the human beings to hear preaching of the God. The main goal of God is to preach the human beings and correct them to put in the right spiritual path. For beginners, He does some miracles as signs for His presence in the human body. The realized souls will detect Him even without those signs. Sheep see the shepherd and come near by recognizing him with eyes. Some milder sheep come near by hearing his voice, which is a miracle. The mildest sheep try to go away and are punished by the stick of shepherd, which is nothing but permanent hell.
                     
                    Therefore, if you keep Jesus in the place of the present human incarnation and place the same blind priests in the place of present blind followers, you can understand the truth because the same story and the same cinema is repeated with different actors having different names. This is the best way of understanding the truth. Those priests also opposed Jesus, when He argued with wonderful reason. The duty of the teacher finishes by teaching clearly to the class. It is up to the student to grasp it and pass or twist it and fail following the sweet emotional advises of bad blind friends. The Lord is not worried about the percentage of pass because there is no fault in His teaching. He should not be blamed for the pass or failure of the students. A student himself is to be blamed.
                     
                    When the messenger comes to the earth, he delivers his duty so that the God is pleased with him in the upper world. He is not bothered about the fame in this world or the number of followers. God will not find fault with the messenger if the human beings did not pass. He finds fault with the messenger if the message is not properly delivered. Jesus never bothered about propagation of His knowledge. His aim was only to sit on the right side of His pleased Father after doing the duty assigned by Him. He never cared even if the people rejected, insulted and even crucified Him. His aim was God but not the world.
                     
                      posted by: His servant
                      at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
                      www.universal-spirituality.org


                    jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                    <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami  
                    >               1
                    > The statue or photo is the inert object.
                    So is Datta's brain if he believes he's an
                    incarnation of Dattatreya.


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                  • jodyrrr
                    ... It s called discrimination. Datta is a wackadoo nutbag, as are you for believing his nonsense. But please post one of his messages in Q. and A. format so
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 6, 2005
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                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                      <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami
                      > Rejection Of Incarnation –

                      It's called discrimination. Datta is a wackadoo
                      nutbag, as are you for believing his nonsense.

                      But please post one of his messages in Q. and A.
                      format so I can have something to post on my blog.
                    • medit8ionsociety
                      ... Yo Sri Jodiji, Please post the URL of your (excellent and enjoyable) blog. Thanks! Peace and blessings, Bob
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 6, 2005
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                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                        <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                        > <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami
                        > > Rejection Of Incarnation –
                        >
                        > It's called discrimination. Datta is a wackadoo
                        > nutbag, as are you for believing his nonsense.
                        >
                        > But please post one of his messages in Q. and A.
                        > format so I can have something to post on my blog.
                        >
                        Yo Sri Jodiji,
                        Please post the URL of your (excellent and enjoyable) blog.
                        Thanks!
                        Peace and blessings,
                        Bob
                      • jodyrrr
                        ... No problem, Bobji: http://guruphiliac.org Here are my Datta entries: http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/2005/11/lord-datta-lion.html
                        Message 11 of 16 , Dec 7, 2005
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                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
                          <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                          > <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                          > > <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami
                          > > > Rejection Of Incarnation –
                          > >
                          > > It's called discrimination. Datta is a wackadoo
                          > > nutbag, as are you for believing his nonsense.
                          > >
                          > > But please post one of his messages in Q. and A.
                          > > format so I can have something to post on my blog.
                          > >
                          > Yo Sri Jodiji,
                          > Please post the URL of your (excellent and enjoyable) blog.
                          > Thanks!
                          > Peace and blessings,
                          > Bob

                          No problem, Bobji:

                          http://guruphiliac.org

                          Here are my Datta entries:

                          http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/2005/11/lord-datta-lion.html
                          http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/2005/09/three-faced-swami.html

                          --jody.
                        • prakki surya
                          Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami Differentiate Satguru & Guru In the word Satguru, the prefix ‘Sat’ means truth. A Satguru always preaches
                          Message 12 of 16 , Dec 7, 2005
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                            Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami

                            In the word Satguru, the prefix ‘Sat’ means truth.  A Satguru always preaches the truth.  Truth is always harsh and is not liked by several people.  Therefore a Satguru will have only very few disciples.  A Satguru says that the path with thorns will lead to the Lord.  People will not like this.    He also says that the path with flowers leads to hell.   People will not be happy with this preaching.  A Guru preaches which several people like.  The Guru says that the nature of the goal will be the nature of the path.  Since the Lord is full of bliss the path also must be with flowers giving happiness.  Since the hell is giving you lot of pain the path with thorns which also gives lot of pain must lead to the hell.   This argument is very attractive. 
                             
                            Several people will like this and will become the followers of Guru.  Several people will praise him and give lot of Guru Dakshina because his argument is pleasant.  But a Satguru says that the path with thorns alone will lead to the Lord because in this path you have to cut the bonds with your family and with your hard-earned money.  Sacrifice gives lot of pain and sacrifice alone will lead to the Lord.  The path with flowers strengthens your bonds with your family and money which gives you lot of happiness.  Such path leads to the hell.
                             
                             Several people do not like such argument and so only one or two persons who can realize the truth will become His disciples.    A Satguru   will   never   worry   about the number of the disciples and about the quantity of Guru Dakshina.  Even if a single disciple is available He is happy.  Majority always goes to hell.    Only one in millions like Sankara, Vivekananda, Meera can reach the Lord.    Diamonds are always in minority.  Gravel stones are in majority.  Therefore a Satguru will be only one in thousands of Gurus and a true disciple will be only one in millions of disciples.  When you are doing prayers you are praising the Lord as a poet praises a king.  The foolish king may give some gift to the poet.
                             
                             But the omniscient Lord can never be fooled by such praise.  When you sing songs are chant the name of the Lord or express the feelings of devotion by shedding tears or by meditation you are getting the happiness and peace immediately.  You have achieved the fruit.  The Lord will not give another fruit for these things.  When you are pained and loose peace by cutting the family bonds and by sacrificing your work and wealth to the Lord, then only the Lord will give the real gift to you.  When you are working in the field for the owner, doing the work pains you.  The owner will pay money for your work.  Without doing the work, if you are simply chanting the name of the owner or sing songs on the owner, a wise owner will never give any gift. 
                             
                            You have already derived the bliss and peace by eating the sweet in your hand.  Why should I pay you when you are eating the sweet?    When you sacrifice the sweet to me I shall pay you.  A Satguru teaches only the sacrifice which is the path with thorns leading to the Lord.   Veda says that sacrifice alone can bring the grace of the Lord (Dhanene Tyagenaike).   If   you ask   the payment by prayers and devotion the Lord will pay you from your pocket only.  He will bring the results of good deeds from your future life cycles and present them to you.  But when you are sacrificing the sweet to the Lord in spite of your hunger and your heart pain, the Lord rewards you from His pocket.  Therefore the true path leading to the Lord can be identified by loss of peace, mental worry, pain etc., The path to the hell is identified by peace, happiness, benefit etc., Satguru leads you to the Lord and Guru leads you to the hell.
                             
                              posted by: His servant
                              at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
                              www.universal-spirituality.org


                            jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                            <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
                            >
                            >   Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami
                            >   Rejection Of Incarnation –

                            It's called discrimination.


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                          • jodyrrr
                            ... wrote: [snip] ... Stunning, self-serving ignorance, noted.
                            Message 13 of 16 , Dec 8, 2005
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                              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya
                              <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:

                              [snip]

                              > Satguru leads you to the Lord and Guru leads you
                              > to the hell.

                              Stunning, self-serving ignorance, noted.
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.