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Re: Headache from meditation

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  • medit8ionsociety
    In an email we received that I m sure was intended to be posted here in response to Tony s post, Robert Lake said: Tony Thanks, your reasoning looks to me to
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 2, 2005
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      In an email we received that I'm sure was intended
      to be posted here in response to Tony's post,
      Robert Lake said:

      Tony

      Thanks, your reasoning looks to me to be spot on!
      When I was a jock in school I got my best performance when
      I did not 'push' mentally.

      Robert Lake

      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Osime2"
      <tony.osime@f...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Robert,
      >
      > First, let me thank Bob for the excellent suggestion
      he gave you. I feel it is spot on.
      >
      > One of the things about life I have learned from meditation
      is not to force things. I get the best results in meditation by
      "not trying". The key for me is subtlety. What is incredible is that
      it actually takes more "effort" to "not take effort" than it does
      to force things. Let me try to explain.
      >
      > Imagine you are controlling a machine. You have your hand on
      a lever and as you move your hand, the machine responds in
      proportion to your hand movement. Now, imagine that your
      movements became more subtle and in response, the machine makes
      larger movements. Now, imagine your responses becoming more and
      more subtle and the machine's response becoming greater
      and greater. This is a surprise. But the best is yet to come.
      >
      > Imagine that, rather than try to make the most subtle hand
      movement possible, simply thinking about trying to move your
      hand produces the greatest movement in the machine you ever
      experienced! This is a revelation!
      > Now you are on a new level. You control the machine with just
      your thoughts and the results are greater than you imagined possible.
      Now comes the harder part.
      >
      > In the same way the machine's response grew as your hand
      movement became more subtle, the machine's response also grows
      as your thoughts become more subtle! So you make your thoughts
      more and more subtle until...?
      >
      > Well, now you don't know if you are thinking or not thinking.
      You have passed the realm of thought. It seems like there is
      nothing to guide you. However, you can still "perceive" the machine
      and when its response grows you have a "sense" that whatever you
      "did" was "right".
      >
      > Well - this is as far as I have gone. It is hard for me to
      even get to this stage normally because so many things distract me.
      However, I hope I have made the point. I had to reduce my "effort"
      to "no effort" just to get past the first "level".
      >
      >I am going to make a wild guess here. The skill you develop in
      subtlety during your meditation will have some corresponding
      benefit to you in your day to day life.
      >
      > I can give you a personal example to illustrate this.
      Today, while I was at the bank waiting for the attendant to
      complete my transaction, my mind was a whirlwind of activity.
      This was strange to me. Because of my meditation I
      have grown used to "observing" my mind. What I did was to
      simply peel off each emotion like a layer, one after another.
      I noticed how each one depended on the one below to magnify its
      agitation. When I got to the last one I was surprised to find
      nothing there - emptiness; calm. Just like the eye of a storm.
      Although the "storm" did not dissipate right away, I now
      knew there was nothing really there. I could go about my day
      knowing it would subside very soon and it did.
      >
      > I think this post is getting very long so I will stop here.
      Look forward to your response.
      >
      > ...Tony
      >
    • mani kumara
      thanks.what an accurate description.i think thinking stops when you start observing.when the observation is intense trying to catch the first thought that pops
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 3, 2005
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        thanks.what an accurate description.i think thinking stops when you start observing.when the observation is intense trying to catch the first thought that pops up the feeling is very nice.
        love
        mani

        medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
        In an email we received that I'm sure was intended
        to be posted here in response to Tony's post,
        Robert Lake said:

        Tony

        Thanks, your reasoning looks to me to be spot on!
        When I was a jock in school I got my best performance when
        I did not 'push' mentally.

        Robert Lake

        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Osime2"
        <tony.osime@f...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Robert,
        >
        > First, let me thank Bob for the excellent suggestion
        he gave you. I feel it is spot on.
        >
        > One of the things about life I have learned from meditation
        is not to force things. I get the best results in meditation by
        "not trying". The key for me is subtlety. What is incredible is that
        it actually takes more "effort" to "not take effort" than it does
        to force things. Let me try to explain.
        >
        > Imagine you are controlling a machine. You have your hand on
        a lever and as you move your hand, the machine responds in
        proportion to your hand movement. Now, imagine that your
        movements became more subtle and in response, the machine makes
        larger movements. Now, imagine your responses becoming more and
        more subtle and the machine's response becoming greater
        and greater. This is a surprise. But the best is yet to come.
        >
        > Imagine that, rather than try to make the most subtle hand
        movement possible, simply thinking about trying to move your
        hand produces the greatest movement in the machine you ever
        experienced! This is a revelation!
        > Now you are on a new level. You control the machine with just
        your thoughts and the results are greater than you imagined possible.
        Now comes the harder part.
        >
        > In the same way the machine's response grew as your hand
        movement became more subtle, the machine's response also grows
        as your thoughts become more subtle! So you make your thoughts
        more and more subtle until...?
        >
        > Well, now you don't know if you are thinking or not thinking.
        You have passed the realm of thought. It seems like there is
        nothing to guide you. However, you can still "perceive" the machine
        and when its response grows you have a "sense" that whatever you
        "did" was "right".
        >
        > Well - this is as far as I have gone. It is hard for me to
        even get to this stage normally because so many things distract me.
        However, I hope I have made the point. I had to reduce my "effort"
        to "no effort" just to get past the first "level".
        >
        >I am going to make a wild guess here. The skill you develop in
        subtlety during your meditation will have some corresponding
        benefit to you in your day to day life.
        >
        > I can give you a personal example to illustrate this.
        Today, while I was at the bank waiting for the attendant to
        complete my transaction, my mind was a whirlwind of activity.
        This was strange to me. Because of my meditation I
        have grown used to "observing" my mind. What I did was to
        simply peel off each emotion like a layer, one after another.
        I noticed how each one depended on the one below to magnify its
        agitation. When I got to the last one I was surprised to find
        nothing there - emptiness; calm. Just like the eye of a storm.
        Although the "storm" did not dissipate right away, I now
        knew there was nothing really there. I could go about my day
        knowing it would subside very soon and it did.
        >
        > I think this post is getting very long so I will stop here.
        Look forward to your response.
        >
        > ...Tony
        >






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      • prakki surya
        Why does the mind refuse to calm down in meditation? First of all, you must know that meditation is not the real path to attain the grace of the Lord.
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 3, 2005
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          Why does the mind refuse to calm down in meditation?

           

          First of all, you must know that meditation is not the real path to attain the grace of the Lord. Meditation means fixing your mind on a form or formless God. You can imagine only any thing, which is in the realm of the space-time. This means that you can meditate upon only a part or total creation and not upon the creator. God is not the creation and is also not in the creation. If God is creation, you are also God and there is no need of any meditation. If God is in the creation, all the changes in the creation must affect the God. Kapila says " Asangohyayam purushash", which means that God is not associated with creation.

           

          Gita also says the same (Nachaaham Teshu..). God enters a small item of the creation and pervades all over that item for your service, which is only the proven love. Did you meditate upon your parents or wife or children? No, because you have real love to them. You serve them directly and not their photos or some other inert objects keeping as their models. You serve them in their human forms. They are different from their human bodies as souls. But you are serving the soul through the human body.

           

          Similarly the Lord enters a human body and available for your true love. You must take pains to detect him. Have you not taken pains to search a suitable girl for marriage to show your true love? Take the help of the divine knowledge. Vedas and Gita have given the procedure to detect the human incarnation. To cut your bonds with the family members, who are also, human beings, another human form of God is only the equal competitor. Formless objects, statues and photos cannot compete. Your body is also a human form.

           The bond with money is only for the human forms. If you develop the bond with human incarnation, which is Lord Himself called as Sadguru, He will bless you with divine knowledge, which alone can cut your worldly bonds. Since you have not fully realized, your attachment persists. The attachment is violent only due to the high intensity of ignorance, which is nothing but mis-interpreted and twisted wrong knowledge. Such ignorance can disappear only by the light of true divine knowledge.

           

          The source of that knowledge is Sadguru. Therefore, you must catch a Sadguru and hear His divine knowledge constantly. You must clarify your doubts at every stage. When you are fully clarified, the ignorance disappears like the darkness in the presence of sunlight. Thus, the root cause is only ignorance and root remedy is only true knowledge. When the ignorance is associated with egoism and jealousy, it is like diabetes associated with hypertension and kidney-failure. Your case is not serious because you are with ignorance only. It will be easy to treat you.

           

          at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

          surya

          www.universal-spirituality.org


          mani kumara <kumara_maniin@...> wrote:

          thanks.what an accurate description.i think thinking stops when you start observing.when the observation is intense trying to catch the first thought that pops up the feeling is very nice.
          love
          mani


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