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Headache from meditation

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  • Tony Osime2
    Hi Robert, First, let me thank Bob for the excellent suggestion he gave you. I feel it is spot on. One of the things about life I have learned from meditation
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 21, 2005
      Hi Robert,

      First, let me thank Bob for the excellent suggestion he gave you. I feel it
      is spot on.

      One of the things about life I have learned from meditation is not to force
      things. I get the best results in meditation by "not trying". The key for me
      is subtlety. What is incredible is that it actually takes more "effort" to
      "not take effort" than it does to force things. Let me try to explain.

      Imagine you are controlling a machine. You have your hand on a lever and as
      you move your hand, the machine responds in proportion to your hand
      movement. Now, imagine that your movements became more subtle and in
      response, the machine makes larger movements. Now, imagine your responses
      becoming more and more subtle and the machine's response becoming greater
      and greater. This is a surprise. But the best is yet to come.

      Imagine that, rather than try to make the most subtle hand movement
      possible, simply thinking about trying to move your hand produces the
      greatest movement in the machine you ever experienced! This is a revelation!
      Now you are on a new level. You control the machine with just your thoughts
      and the results are greater than you imagined possible. Now comes the harder
      part.

      In the same way the machine's response grew as your hand movement became
      more subtle, the machine's response also grows as your thoughts become more
      subtle! So you make your thoughts more and more subtle until...?

      Well, now you don't know if you are thinking or not thinking. You have
      passed the realm of thought. It seems like there is nothing to guide you.
      However, you can still "perceive" the machine and when its response grows
      you have a "sense" that whatever you "did" was "right".

      Well - this is as far as I have gone. It is hard for me to even get to this
      stage normally because so many things distract me. However, I hope I have
      made the point. I had to reduce my "effort" to "no effort" just to get past
      the first "level".

      I am going to make a wild guess here. The skill you develop in subtlety
      during your meditation will have some corresponding benefit to you in your
      day to day life.

      I can give you a personal example to illustrate this. Today, while I was at
      the bank waiting for the attendant to complete my transaction, my mind was a
      whirlwind of activity. This was strange to me. Because of my meditation I
      have grown used to "observing" my mind. What I did was to simply peel off
      each emotion like a layer, one after another. I noticed how each one
      depended on the one below to magnify its agitation. When I got to the last
      one I was surprised to find nothing there - emptiness; calm. Just like the
      eye of a storm. Although the "storm" did not dissipate right away, I now
      knew there was nothing really there. I could go about my day knowing it
      would subside very soon and it did.

      I think this post is getting very long so I will stop here. Look forward to
      your response.

      ...Tony
    • medit8ionsociety
      In an email we received that I m sure was intended to be posted here in response to Tony s post, Robert Lake said: Tony Thanks, your reasoning looks to me to
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 2 5:17 PM
        In an email we received that I'm sure was intended
        to be posted here in response to Tony's post,
        Robert Lake said:

        Tony

        Thanks, your reasoning looks to me to be spot on!
        When I was a jock in school I got my best performance when
        I did not 'push' mentally.

        Robert Lake

        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Osime2"
        <tony.osime@f...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Robert,
        >
        > First, let me thank Bob for the excellent suggestion
        he gave you. I feel it is spot on.
        >
        > One of the things about life I have learned from meditation
        is not to force things. I get the best results in meditation by
        "not trying". The key for me is subtlety. What is incredible is that
        it actually takes more "effort" to "not take effort" than it does
        to force things. Let me try to explain.
        >
        > Imagine you are controlling a machine. You have your hand on
        a lever and as you move your hand, the machine responds in
        proportion to your hand movement. Now, imagine that your
        movements became more subtle and in response, the machine makes
        larger movements. Now, imagine your responses becoming more and
        more subtle and the machine's response becoming greater
        and greater. This is a surprise. But the best is yet to come.
        >
        > Imagine that, rather than try to make the most subtle hand
        movement possible, simply thinking about trying to move your
        hand produces the greatest movement in the machine you ever
        experienced! This is a revelation!
        > Now you are on a new level. You control the machine with just
        your thoughts and the results are greater than you imagined possible.
        Now comes the harder part.
        >
        > In the same way the machine's response grew as your hand
        movement became more subtle, the machine's response also grows
        as your thoughts become more subtle! So you make your thoughts
        more and more subtle until...?
        >
        > Well, now you don't know if you are thinking or not thinking.
        You have passed the realm of thought. It seems like there is
        nothing to guide you. However, you can still "perceive" the machine
        and when its response grows you have a "sense" that whatever you
        "did" was "right".
        >
        > Well - this is as far as I have gone. It is hard for me to
        even get to this stage normally because so many things distract me.
        However, I hope I have made the point. I had to reduce my "effort"
        to "no effort" just to get past the first "level".
        >
        >I am going to make a wild guess here. The skill you develop in
        subtlety during your meditation will have some corresponding
        benefit to you in your day to day life.
        >
        > I can give you a personal example to illustrate this.
        Today, while I was at the bank waiting for the attendant to
        complete my transaction, my mind was a whirlwind of activity.
        This was strange to me. Because of my meditation I
        have grown used to "observing" my mind. What I did was to
        simply peel off each emotion like a layer, one after another.
        I noticed how each one depended on the one below to magnify its
        agitation. When I got to the last one I was surprised to find
        nothing there - emptiness; calm. Just like the eye of a storm.
        Although the "storm" did not dissipate right away, I now
        knew there was nothing really there. I could go about my day
        knowing it would subside very soon and it did.
        >
        > I think this post is getting very long so I will stop here.
        Look forward to your response.
        >
        > ...Tony
        >
      • mani kumara
        thanks.what an accurate description.i think thinking stops when you start observing.when the observation is intense trying to catch the first thought that pops
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 3 7:58 PM
          thanks.what an accurate description.i think thinking stops when you start observing.when the observation is intense trying to catch the first thought that pops up the feeling is very nice.
          love
          mani

          medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
          In an email we received that I'm sure was intended
          to be posted here in response to Tony's post,
          Robert Lake said:

          Tony

          Thanks, your reasoning looks to me to be spot on!
          When I was a jock in school I got my best performance when
          I did not 'push' mentally.

          Robert Lake

          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Osime2"
          <tony.osime@f...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Robert,
          >
          > First, let me thank Bob for the excellent suggestion
          he gave you. I feel it is spot on.
          >
          > One of the things about life I have learned from meditation
          is not to force things. I get the best results in meditation by
          "not trying". The key for me is subtlety. What is incredible is that
          it actually takes more "effort" to "not take effort" than it does
          to force things. Let me try to explain.
          >
          > Imagine you are controlling a machine. You have your hand on
          a lever and as you move your hand, the machine responds in
          proportion to your hand movement. Now, imagine that your
          movements became more subtle and in response, the machine makes
          larger movements. Now, imagine your responses becoming more and
          more subtle and the machine's response becoming greater
          and greater. This is a surprise. But the best is yet to come.
          >
          > Imagine that, rather than try to make the most subtle hand
          movement possible, simply thinking about trying to move your
          hand produces the greatest movement in the machine you ever
          experienced! This is a revelation!
          > Now you are on a new level. You control the machine with just
          your thoughts and the results are greater than you imagined possible.
          Now comes the harder part.
          >
          > In the same way the machine's response grew as your hand
          movement became more subtle, the machine's response also grows
          as your thoughts become more subtle! So you make your thoughts
          more and more subtle until...?
          >
          > Well, now you don't know if you are thinking or not thinking.
          You have passed the realm of thought. It seems like there is
          nothing to guide you. However, you can still "perceive" the machine
          and when its response grows you have a "sense" that whatever you
          "did" was "right".
          >
          > Well - this is as far as I have gone. It is hard for me to
          even get to this stage normally because so many things distract me.
          However, I hope I have made the point. I had to reduce my "effort"
          to "no effort" just to get past the first "level".
          >
          >I am going to make a wild guess here. The skill you develop in
          subtlety during your meditation will have some corresponding
          benefit to you in your day to day life.
          >
          > I can give you a personal example to illustrate this.
          Today, while I was at the bank waiting for the attendant to
          complete my transaction, my mind was a whirlwind of activity.
          This was strange to me. Because of my meditation I
          have grown used to "observing" my mind. What I did was to
          simply peel off each emotion like a layer, one after another.
          I noticed how each one depended on the one below to magnify its
          agitation. When I got to the last one I was surprised to find
          nothing there - emptiness; calm. Just like the eye of a storm.
          Although the "storm" did not dissipate right away, I now
          knew there was nothing really there. I could go about my day
          knowing it would subside very soon and it did.
          >
          > I think this post is getting very long so I will stop here.
          Look forward to your response.
          >
          > ...Tony
          >






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        • prakki surya
          Why does the mind refuse to calm down in meditation? First of all, you must know that meditation is not the real path to attain the grace of the Lord.
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 3 10:01 PM

            Why does the mind refuse to calm down in meditation?

             

            First of all, you must know that meditation is not the real path to attain the grace of the Lord. Meditation means fixing your mind on a form or formless God. You can imagine only any thing, which is in the realm of the space-time. This means that you can meditate upon only a part or total creation and not upon the creator. God is not the creation and is also not in the creation. If God is creation, you are also God and there is no need of any meditation. If God is in the creation, all the changes in the creation must affect the God. Kapila says " Asangohyayam purushash", which means that God is not associated with creation.

             

            Gita also says the same (Nachaaham Teshu..). God enters a small item of the creation and pervades all over that item for your service, which is only the proven love. Did you meditate upon your parents or wife or children? No, because you have real love to them. You serve them directly and not their photos or some other inert objects keeping as their models. You serve them in their human forms. They are different from their human bodies as souls. But you are serving the soul through the human body.

             

            Similarly the Lord enters a human body and available for your true love. You must take pains to detect him. Have you not taken pains to search a suitable girl for marriage to show your true love? Take the help of the divine knowledge. Vedas and Gita have given the procedure to detect the human incarnation. To cut your bonds with the family members, who are also, human beings, another human form of God is only the equal competitor. Formless objects, statues and photos cannot compete. Your body is also a human form.

             The bond with money is only for the human forms. If you develop the bond with human incarnation, which is Lord Himself called as Sadguru, He will bless you with divine knowledge, which alone can cut your worldly bonds. Since you have not fully realized, your attachment persists. The attachment is violent only due to the high intensity of ignorance, which is nothing but mis-interpreted and twisted wrong knowledge. Such ignorance can disappear only by the light of true divine knowledge.

             

            The source of that knowledge is Sadguru. Therefore, you must catch a Sadguru and hear His divine knowledge constantly. You must clarify your doubts at every stage. When you are fully clarified, the ignorance disappears like the darkness in the presence of sunlight. Thus, the root cause is only ignorance and root remedy is only true knowledge. When the ignorance is associated with egoism and jealousy, it is like diabetes associated with hypertension and kidney-failure. Your case is not serious because you are with ignorance only. It will be easy to treat you.

             

            at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

            surya

            www.universal-spirituality.org


            mani kumara <kumara_maniin@...> wrote:

            thanks.what an accurate description.i think thinking stops when you start observing.when the observation is intense trying to catch the first thought that pops up the feeling is very nice.
            love
            mani


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