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in response to GUru Guru....

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  • veena shenoy
    In response to the attached email below: GURU GURU..... don t forget to read the full article on comparison from nithyananda swamiji. Stop Comparing, soar
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 19, 2005
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       In response to the attached email below: GURU GURU.....

      don't forget to read the full article on comparison from nithyananda swamiji.

      Stop Comparing, soar high!

      When we are not able to bear others’ excellence, we get jealous. Comparison is the seed and jealousy is the fruit. Comparison and jealousy are actually non-existent. We create them ourselves and talk endlessly on how to overcome them.  people simply want to either show that they are knowledgeable or that they are seekers – their 'seeker ego' surfaces.

      We will never meet failure if we live our lives by competing with ourselves. Win yourself with yourself, never with others. Every minute of comparison with others is a waste of time in your own progress. A great problem in the rat race is that even if you win you are only a rat! Lock yourself in a room and analyze how much of time and energy you waste in comparison with others; more than 60% I am sure. We talk of conserving petrol, water and electricity; what about conserving our own Energy?

      The real purpose of life cannot be understood by ego. When the ego is dropped, you will understand the Divine purpose of life, the Leelas or the Divine play. You will then enjoy the whole drama! If you keep thinking that life has a purpose and wait to achieve something, you will miss life itself. Life itself is the path, not the goal. When you have a goal, you will run and when you run, your feet will not touch the ground and you will miss the beauty of Existence or nature. When you drop the goal, the emphasis will be on the path.

      A scientist is a man who creates a formula to reproduce something that he has discovered in the outer world for others also to experience. A Master is a man who creates a formula to reproduce something that He experienced in the inner world for others to experience inside them. He creates a formula for others to experience the Bliss or the Eternal Truth that He experienced in His own Consciousness.

       

      Message: 1
      Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 12:10:08 -0700 (PDT)
      From: prakki surya
      Subject: Re: Guru Guru Guru ..............


      friends



      Some people desire to become Guru (Preacher) when they fail in every business. They want to succeed in the spiritual business. Some other people have the itch to become the Guru to get the disciples around them. But, for preaching and to become a real Guru in this world there are three requirements.



      1) You should discover a better truth in the scriptures.

      2) Due to lack of knowledge of your discovery, people must be suffering already.

      3) People should get benefit on knowing your discovery.


      So never be a harmful Guru. Don’t waste time and energy by becoming a useless Guru. Participate in the service of the useful Guru (Satguru) as a disciple and get the same position of that Satguru. Let every Guru and everyone who has the itch to become Guru think about my advice and do self-examination sitting alone with peaceful mind.



      THEN YOU WILL UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH.

      at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

      surya



      SURYA
      surya@...
      www.universal-spirituality.org


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      Message: 2
      Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 06:02:28 -0000
      From: "Lokesh shinh"
      Subject: Meditation & sex

      Dear friends & respected teachers

      First of all i am thankful too all
      the members & the modrate of this group to make this group to help
      people.

      I regularly meditate & i have a ? to God is sex is a bad or good

      The reply come to me was very surprising because God say to me Sex
      is Good if it is with love but is bad if it is lust

      Then i ask another ? to God i am a meditator i should have sex with
      several womens who love me & i also love them

      Yes i got the answer because meditation guide us to avoid thoughts &
      make our mind calm & quit.But if we are just leaving or avoding sex
      we can not concentrate because kundalini is in mooldhara chakra & if
      we block our sex desires we will block hara chakra & it will disturb
      kundalini (mooldhara chakra) so go for sex only with love not with
      lust
      Any question regarding this is highly appreciated i am a God servant
      to help all the humality

      OM
      Love & light
      Lokesh shinh




      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 3
      Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:48:05 +0530
      From: vishal pandya
      Subject: Re: Physical relaxation in meditation

      hi tony

      this is vishal from india

      i got somewhat same but small diffrence in mine experiences.

      before some days i am on the journey of indian temples.

      in some temples i entered i feel sensation of prana and lose my control of body

      even after a 20 - 25 minutes i got consiousness

      mine guruji siddhyogi shri vibhakarji www.siddhyog.org
      said that it is a flow of divine energy that take u ion to the deep meditation.

      so this is mine experience

      i like to share some more with u tony

      thanks
      On 9/14/05, Tony Osime wrote:
      > Hello everyone,
      >
      > After six weeks without meditating while on vacation, I started my sessions
      > and noted that they felt "dull".
      >
      > What I appreciate now is that I was not allowing my physical relaxation to
      > progress past the point of very low physical sensations. This limited my
      > depth of meditation. After six weeks, I had slightly forgotten this
      > technique.
      >
      > As I meditate, I physically relax. The more I relax, the deeper I go into
      > meditation. There comes a point where there are so few physical sensations
      > from my body that I find it hard to monitor my state of physical relaxation.
      > However, I can still continue my physical relaxation. Only now, the feedback
      > comes from inner sounds and mental states.
      >
      > I still need to "tell" my body to continue the physical relaxation, even
      > though I am not getting physical feedback. The key is to do this in a very
      > subtle way so it does not become a point of distraction to the meditation.
      >
      > If I stopped the relaxation progression simply because I felt no physical
      > sensations my sessions would remain at very shallow levels and seem "dull".
      >
      > Has anyone had this experience? Does anyone have any comments or
      > suggestions?
      >
      > Regards...Tony
      >
      >
      >
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      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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    • prakki surya
      Oh shenoy i am saadhaka only and not making any comparison with anybody. this discourse was written by my Satguru His Holiness Shri Datta Swami, who is Lord
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 20, 2005
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        Oh shenoy
         
        i am saadhaka only and not making any comparison with anybody. this discourse was written by my Satguru His Holiness Shri Datta Swami, who is Lord Datta in human form.
         
        I am surya His disciple participating in His mission of divine knowledge propagation. Anyway as the administrator of the Universe, it is Lord who is only capable of putting people in right track. I am just a human being like any other and serving Him only in His mission.
         
        in your analysis, you are more concentrating on qualities forgetting about the best quality devotion.  Spiritual growth itself means increase of devotion on Lord day by day by getting more and more divine knowledge. we should spend every minute in getting devotion which is the best quality. 
         
        at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
        surya
         
        veena shenoy <rajeevi0416@...> wrote:

        The real purpose of life cannot be understood by ego. When the ego is dropped, you will understand the Divine purpose of life, the Leelas or the Divine play. You will then enjoy the whole drama!



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      • vishal pandya
        dear surya i am getting you. but how can you say one man as a lord even lord rama even not said himself as a lord. i am not saying ur guru is not powerful he
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 20, 2005
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          dear surya

          i am getting you.

          but how can you say one man as a lord even lord rama even not said
          himself as a lord.

          i am not saying ur guru is not powerful he is powerful but not the god

          sorry if i said something wrong

          thanks


          On 9/20/05, prakki surya <dattapr2000@...> wrote:
          > Oh shenoy
          >
          > i am saadhaka only and not making any comparison with anybody. this
          > discourse was written by my Satguru His Holiness Shri Datta Swami, who is
          > Lord Datta in human form.
          >
          > I am surya His disciple participating in His mission of divine knowledge
          > propagation. Anyway as the administrator of the Universe, it is Lord who is
          > only capable of putting people in right track. I am just a human being like
          > any other and serving Him only in His mission.
          >
          > in your analysis, you are more concentrating on qualities forgetting about
          > the best quality devotion. Spiritual growth itself means increase of
          > devotion on Lord day by day by getting more and more divine knowledge. we
          > should spend every minute in getting devotion which is the best quality.
          >
          > at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
          > surya
          >
          > veena shenoy <rajeevi0416@...> wrote:
          >
          > The real purpose of life cannot be understood by ego. When the ego is
          > dropped, you will understand the Divine purpose of life, the Leelas or the
          > Divine play. You will then enjoy the whole drama!
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > SURYA
          > surya@...
          > www.universal-spirituality.org
          >
          > __________________________________________________
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > http://mail.yahoo.com
          >
        • prakki surya
          dear friend Pat of Swamiji s discourse ........... How can one argue that the Lord cannot come down in the human form? If He is incapable of doing so, He
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 20, 2005
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            dear friend

             

            Pat of Swamiji's discourse ...........

             

            How can one argue that the Lord cannot come down in the human form? If He is incapable of doing so, He cannot be omnipotent. You need not argue that though the Lord is capable, there is no necessity of such human form. You may not have that necessity. Are you the only human being on this whole earth? Have you taken the opinion of all the human beings to say like this? There are several devotees who belong to Nivrutti (path of liberation) and desire for the Lord in human form to see (Darsanam), to touch (Sparsanam), to hear the knowledge and clarify their doubts (Sambhashanam) and to live along with the Lord (Sahavasa) for achieving these three for a long time. The main purpose is preaching the divine knowledge and clarify the doubts. The statues or photos or energetic forms or space cannot preach the knowledge and that is against the universal observation (perception). Preaching of the knowledge by the human forms of the Lord like Krishna, Jesus etc is observed universally and accepted perception. Such universal observation is according to the rules of the nature. When something is possible through a simple way by following the rules of the nature, is it not foolish to do the same simple thing in the complicated way violating the rules of the nature?  When water is available in plenty from the tap, what is the necessity of producing water by forcing Hydrogen and Oxygen to react with the help of an electric arc?

             

            To show the production of the water by this reaction, this experiment can be performed once but not every time whenever water is required. To show the super power of the Lord a statue or a photo or the energetic form or even formless space may talk once. But to preach the spiritual knowledge continuously, the Lord need not talk continuously through statues or photos or energetic forms or space. Some devotee might have experienced such super power in some place and in some time. Such experience is not supported by simultaneous universal observation. When you are seeing the moon in the sky, others are also observing the same moon simultaneously. This is required to authorise any experience. When this authorisation is absent, your experience may be true or might have been due to some psychological disorder. The existence of such psychic experience is also observed in this world. Therefore we cannot isolate the possibility of these two cases in your experience. Therefore there is a necessity for the human form of the Lord and since the Lord is omnipotent, He is coming down in the human form. There cannot be any further argument on this point. I know you are worried that the Lord is modified into the human body and thus the unchangeable Lord has to be changed. Do not worry about this point, because the Lord is never modified into the human body. He only entered into the human body. The word “Asritam” in the verse of Gita “Manushim tanumasritam” means the entry of the Lord into the human body and not the modification of the Lord as a human body. Lord Krishna in Gita clarified this in the verse “Avyaktam Vyaktimapannam”.

             

            When a person says that God sent him as messenger and that He has brought the message of the Lord, again the same problem appears. When God is giving the message to that person, nobody has seen it. That person is the single witness. Now the leftover alternative to believe that the knowledge was given by the Lord only is that we have to test the knowledge. Had we seen the transfer of the knowledge from God to that person with our eyes, we need not test that knowledge. It must have been definitely the divine knowledge. If we have to believe a statement of that person without the simultaneous universal perception, then we have to believe even a fraud person who utters the same statement. If you give us a piece of metal and say that is Gold, since God gave it, we cannot believe it. Either we must have seen the God giving it to you or we must analyse the metal. Moreover the knowledge is not like the piece of metal, which will not change by transfer. When a teacher explains a concept to somebody and asks him to deliver it to his students, it cannot be transferred as it is. The transfer of knowledge consists of not only the concept but also the explanation. The concept might have been transferred but any body other than that original teacher cannot do the same way of explanation of the concept by which the concept pierces into the heart. Therefore to propagate the divine knowledge the Lord Himself comes down in a human form. Arjuna said the same in Gita “Tvadanyah” which means that except the Lord nobody can preach the divine knowledge and clarify the spiritual doubts.

             

            Veda says that the Lord alone knows about Himself (Brahmavit Brahmaiva). Gita says that nobody other than the Lord can know the Lord. Some people misinterpret this Vedic statement as that he who knows Brahman becomes Brahman. But this interpretation contradicts Gita because Gita says that nobody other than the Brahman can know Brahman. The conclusion of this is that the Lord alone can preach about the Lord or Himself. Therefore from this point of view also the Lord has to come down in the human form to preach about Himself. When the Lord preaches, He preaches the concept very clearly. Then you will naturally detect the preacher as the Lord Himself. This is inevitable with any human incarnation. Now you cannot tolerate this because you misunderstand Him that He indirectly ended in Himself. You will think that He is the biggest cheater. You will be the happiest person if His divine knowledge concludes that you are the Lord in the human form. Then you will praise such knowledge. The advaita scholar solves this problem of your egoism and jealousy by saying that He and yourself are the Lord. It is a compromise in the spiritual business. Unfortunately Lord Krishna did not know such norms of the business. Throughout the Gita He repeatedly emphasized that He alone is the Lord in the human form and He preached very clearly about the Lord. He did not say even once that Arjuna was Brahman like the Advaita scholar. He asked Arjuna to salute Him, to meditate upon Him and to serve Him (Manmanabhava—Gita). If Arjuna was Brahman, Brahman cannot salute Brahman. If you have any doubt about the preacher to be the Lord, you can analyse His knowledge. First you must see whether He is coating the scriptures as a support while introducing the concepts. Then you must apply the faculty of your analysis and see whether His interpretations are logical. When you are satisfied with His divine knowledge in all angles and if such knowledge indicates Him as Lord you must accept Him.

             

            at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

            surya

            www.universal-spirituality.org

             



            vishal pandya <yogivishal@...> wrote:
            dear surya

            i am getting you.

            but how can you say one man as a lord even lord rama even not said
            himself as a lord.

            i am not saying ur guru is not powerful he is powerful but not the god

            sorry if i said something wrong

            thanks


            On 9/20/05, prakki surya <dattapr2000@...> wrote:
            > Oh shenoy

            > i am saadhaka only and not making any comparison with anybody. this
            > discourse was written by my Satguru His Holiness Shri Datta Swami, who is
            > Lord Datta in human form.

            > I am surya His disciple participating in His mission of divine knowledge
            > propagation. Anyway as the administrator of the Universe, it is Lord who is
            > only capable of putting people in right track. I am just a human being like
            > any other and serving Him only in His mission.

            > in your analysis, you are more concentrating on qualities forgetting about
            > the best quality devotion.  Spiritual growth itself means increase of
            > devotion on Lord day by day by getting more and more divine knowledge. we
            > should spend every minute in getting devotion which is the best quality.

            > at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
            > surya

            > veena shenoy <rajeevi0416@...> wrote:
            >
            > The real purpose of life cannot be understood by ego. When the ego is
            > dropped, you will understand the Divine purpose of life, the Leelas or the
            > Divine play. You will then enjoy the whole drama!
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > SURYA
            > surya@...
            > www.universal-spirituality.org
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > http://mail.yahoo.com
            >



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          • vishal pandya
            dear friend from reading ur mail i got that i hert u very much but mine intention is not that. i am just saying the duttaswami may be most powerful man in
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 21, 2005
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              dear friend
               
              from reading ur mail i got that i hert u very much but mine intention is not that.
               
              i am just saying the duttaswami may be most powerful man in world but still not a god
               
              i am very sorry for that
               
              i appreciate your devotion.
               
              thanks
               
              vishal
               


               
              On 9/21/05, prakki surya <dattapr2000@...> wrote:

              dear friend

               

              Pat of Swamiji's discourse ...........

               

              How can one argue that the Lord cannot come down in the human form? If He is incapable of doing so, He cannot be omnipotent. You need not argue that though the Lord is capable, there is no necessity of such human form. You may not have that necessity. Are you the only human being on this whole earth? Have you taken the opinion of all the human beings to say like this? There are several devotees who belong to Nivrutti (path of liberation) and desire for the Lord in human form to see (Darsanam), to touch (Sparsanam), to hear the knowledge and clarify their doubts (Sambhashanam) and to live along with the Lord (Sahavasa) for achieving these three for a long time. The main purpose is preaching the divine knowledge and clarify the doubts. The statues or photos or energetic forms or space cannot preach the knowledge and that is against the universal observation (perception). Preaching of the knowledge by the human forms of the Lord like Krishna, Jesus etc is observed universally and accepted perception. Such universal observation is according to the rules of the nature. When something is possible through a simple way by following the rules of the nature, is it not foolish to do the same simple thing in the complicated way violating the rules of the nature?   When water is available in plenty from the tap, what is the necessity of producing water by forcing Hydrogen and Oxygen to react with the help of an electric arc?

               

              To show the production of the water by this reaction, this experiment can be performed once but not every time whenever water is required. To show the super power of the Lord a statue or a photo or the energetic form or even formless space may talk once. But to preach the spiritual knowledge continuously, the Lord need not talk continuously through statues or photos or energetic forms or space. Some devotee might have experienced such super power in some place and in some time. Such experience is not supported by simultaneous universal observation. When you are seeing the moon in the sky, others are also observing the same moon simultaneously. This is required to authorise any experience. When this authorisation is absent, your experience may be true or might have been due to some psychological disorder. The existence of such psychic experience is also observed in this world. Therefore we cannot isolate the possibility of these two cases in your experience. Therefore there is a necessity for the human form of the Lord and since the Lord is omnipotent, He is coming down in the human form. There cannot be any further argument on this point. I know you are worried that the Lord is modified into the human body and thus the unchangeable Lord has to be changed. Do not worry about this point, because the Lord is never modified into the human body. He only entered into the human body. The word "Asritam" in the verse of Gita "Manushim tanumasritam" means the entry of the Lord into the human body and not the modification of the Lord as a human body. Lord Krishna in Gita clarified this in the verse "Avyaktam Vyaktimapannam".

               

              When a person says that God sent him as messenger and that He has brought the message of the Lord, again the same problem appears. When God is giving the message to that person, nobody has seen it. That person is the single witness. Now the leftover alternative to believe that the knowledge was given by the Lord only is that we have to test the knowledge. Had we seen the transfer of the knowledge from God to that person with our eyes, we need not test that knowledge. It must have been definitely the divine knowledge. If we have to believe a statement of that person without the simultaneous universal perception, then we have to believe even a fraud person who utters the same statement. If you give us a piece of metal and say that is Gold, since God gave it, we cannot believe it. Either we must have seen the God giving it to you or we must analyse the metal. Moreover the knowledge is not like the piece of metal, which will not change by transfer. When a teacher explains a concept to somebody and asks him to deliver it to his students, it cannot be transferred as it is. The transfer of knowledge consists of not only the concept but also the explanation. The concept might have been transferred but any body other than that original teacher cannot do the same way of explanation of the concept by which the concept pierces into the heart. Therefore to propagate the divine knowledge the Lord Himself comes down in a human form. Arjuna said the same in Gita "Tvadanyah" which means that except the Lord nobody can preach the divine knowledge and clarify the spiritual doubts.

               

              Veda says that the Lord alone knows about Himself (Brahmavit Brahmaiva). Gita says that nobody other than the Lord can know the Lord. Some people misinterpret this Vedic statement as that he who knows Brahman becomes Brahman. But this interpretation contradicts Gita because Gita says that nobody other than the Brahman can know Brahman. The conclusion of this is that the Lord alone can preach about the Lord or Himself. Therefore from this point of view also the Lord has to come down in the human form to preach about Himself. When the Lord preaches, He preaches the concept very clearly. Then you will naturally detect the preacher as the Lord Himself. This is inevitable with any human incarnation. Now you cannot tolerate this because you misunderstand Him that He indirectly ended in Himself. You will think that He is the biggest cheater. You will be the happiest person if His divine knowledge concludes that you are the Lord in the human form. Then you will praise such knowledge. The advaita scholar solves this problem of your egoism and jealousy by saying that He and yourself are the Lord. It is a compromise in the spiritual business. Unfortunately Lord Krishna did not know such norms of the business. Throughout the Gita He repeatedly emphasized that He alone is the Lord in the human form and He preached very clearly about the Lord. He did not say even once that Arjuna was Brahman like the Advaita scholar. He asked Arjuna to salute Him, to meditate upon Him and to serve Him (Manmanabhava—Gita). If Arjuna was Brahman, Brahman cannot salute Brahman. If you have any doubt about the preacher to be the Lord, you can analyse His knowledge. First you must see whether He is coating the scriptures as a support while introducing the concepts. Then you must apply the faculty of your analysis and see whether His interpretations are logical. When you are satisfied with His divine knowledge in all angles and if such knowledge indicates Him as Lord you must accept Him.

               

              at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

              surya

              www.universal-spirituality.org

               



              vishal pandya <yogivishal@...> wrote:
              dear surya

              i am getting you.

              but how can you say one man as a lord even lord rama even not said
              himself as a lord.

              i am not saying ur guru is not powerful he is powerful but not the god

              sorry if i said something wrong

              thanks


              On 9/20/05, prakki surya < dattapr2000@...> wrote:
              > Oh shenoy

              > i am saadhaka only and not making any comparison with anybody. this
              > discourse was written by my Satguru His Holiness Shri Datta Swami, who is
              > Lord Datta in human form.

              > I am surya His disciple participating in His mission of divine knowledge
              > propagation. Anyway as the administrator of the Universe, it is Lord who is
              > only capable of putting people in right track. I am just a human being like
              > any other and serving Him only in His mission.

              > in your analysis, you are more concentrating on qualities forgetting about
              > the best quality devotion.  Spiritual growth itself means increase of
              > devotion on Lord day by day by getting more and more divine knowledge. we
              > should spend every minute in getting devotion which is the best quality.

              > at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
              > surya

              > veena shenoy <rajeevi0416@...> wrote:
              >
              > The real purpose of life cannot be understood by ego. When the ego is
              > dropped, you will understand the Divine purpose of life, the Leelas or the
              > Divine play. You will then enjoy the whole drama!
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > SURYA
              > surya@...
              > www.universal-spirituality.org
              >
              > __________________________________________________
              > Do You Yahoo!?
              > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              > http://mail.yahoo.com
              >



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            • prakki surya
              dear friend The main intention of this divine knowledge propagation of Swamiji is truth should be propagated so that all the interested aspirants will benefit.
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 21, 2005
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                dear friend
                 
                The main intention of this divine knowledge propagation of Swamiji is truth should be propagated so that all the interested aspirants will benefit. The practical aspect of identifying Lord & worshipping that Lord should be inculcated.
                 

                When Lord comes in Human form His main concentration in the preaching will be where people are lacking the knowledge. If one is strong in Mathematics, what is the use of teaching him mathematics? Teach the subject where he is weak. Sofar mostly people never identified the Lord (Ofcourse other than a handful) when He came in human form like Jesus, Krishna, Mohammed, Buddha... The reason being not aware of the knowledge required for identifying Him.



                Now Shri Datta swami gave many discourses in this direction to give complete knowledge. For the first time, He included science also into religions and explaining divine knowledge scientifically to bring atheists also into the main stream of believers of Lord.

                After identifying, next step is to please the Lord (because if I see president of my country will I get any benefit from him other than momentary happiness?)

                 

                As of now mostly all religions people are good in theoretical worship consisting of prayers, meditation & spiritual discussions. That is why Swamiji opened knowledge on the practical worship consisting of karma phala tyaga (donating money for Lord's mission) and karma sanyasa (physically participating in Lord's mission). Anyway foreigners are better than Indians in this practical worship.

                 

                World's richest people (two) have already expressed their willingness for financial assistance to this mission. But Swamiji is of the opinion that everybody should realise the truth and participate in the Lord's mission. So that everybody should get benifitted.

                 

                at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

                surya

                 

                 

                 


                vishal pandya <yogivishal@...> wrote:
                dear friend
                 
                from reading ur mail i got that i hert u very much but mine intention is not that.
                 
                i am just saying the duttaswami may be most powerful man in world but still not a god
                 
                i am very sorry for that
                 
                i appreciate your devotion.
                 
                thanks
                 
                vishal
                 


                 
                On 9/21/05, prakki surya <dattapr2000@...> wrote:

                dear friend

                 

                Pat of Swamiji's discourse ...........

                 

                How can one argue that the Lord cannot come down in the human form? If He is incapable of doing so, He cannot be omnipotent. You need not argue that though the Lord is capable, there is no necessity of such human form. You may not have that necessity. Are you the only human being on this whole earth? Have you taken the opinion of all the human beings to say like this? There are several devotees who belong to Nivrutti (path of liberation) and desire for the Lord in human form to see (Darsanam), to touch (Sparsanam), to hear the knowledge and clarify their doubts (Sambhashanam) and to live along with the Lord (Sahavasa) for achieving these three for a long time. The main purpose is preaching the divine knowledge and clarify the doubts. The statues or photos or energetic forms or space cannot preach the knowledge and that is against the universal observation (perception). Preaching of the knowledge by the human forms of the Lord like Krishna, Jesus etc is observed universally and accepted perception. Such universal observation is according to the rules of the nature. When something is possible through a simple way by following the rules of the nature, is it not foolish to do the same simple thing in the complicated way violating the rules of the nature?   When water is available in plenty from the tap, what is the necessity of producing water by forcing Hydrogen and Oxygen to react with the help of an electric arc?

                 

                To show the production of the water by this reaction, this experiment can be performed once but not every time whenever water is required. To show the super power of the Lord a statue or a photo or the energetic form or even formless space may talk once. But to preach the spiritual knowledge continuously, the Lord need not talk continuously through statues or photos or energetic forms or space. Some devotee might have experienced such super power in some place and in some time. Such experience is not supported by simultaneous universal observation. When you are seeing the moon in the sky, others are also observing the same moon simultaneously. This is required to authorise any experience. When this authorisation is absent, your experience may be true or might have been due to some psychological disorder. The existence of such psychic experience is also observed in this world. Therefore we cannot isolate the possibility of these two cases in your experience. Therefore there is a necessity for the human form of the Lord and since the Lord is omnipotent, He is coming down in the human form. There cannot be any further argument on this point. I know you are worried that the Lord is modified into the human body and thus the unchangeable Lord has to be changed. Do not worry about this point, because the Lord is never modified into the human body. He only entered into the human body. The word "Asritam" in the verse of Gita "Manushim tanumasritam" means the entry of the Lord into the human body and not the modification of the Lord as a human body. Lord Krishna in Gita clarified this in the verse "Avyaktam Vyaktimapannam".

                 

                When a person says that God sent him as messenger and that He has brought the message of the Lord, again the same problem appears. When God is giving the message to that person, nobody has seen it. That person is the single witness. Now the leftover alternative to believe that the knowledge was given by the Lord only is that we have to test the knowledge. Had we seen the transfer of the knowledge from God to that person with our eyes, we need not test that knowledge. It must have been definitely the divine knowledge. If we have to believe a statement of that person without the simultaneous universal perception, then we have to believe even a fraud person who utters the same statement. If you give us a piece of metal and say that is Gold, since God gave it, we cannot believe it. Either we must have seen the God giving it to you or we must analyse the metal. Moreover the knowledge is not like the piece of metal, which will not change by transfer. When a teacher explains a concept to somebody and asks him to deliver it to his students, it cannot be transferred as it is. The transfer of knowledge consists of not only the concept but also the explanation. The concept might have been transferred but any body other than that original teacher cannot do the same way of explanation of the concept by which the concept pierces into the heart. Therefore to propagate the divine knowledge the Lord Himself comes down in a human form. Arjuna said the same in Gita "Tvadanyah" which means that except the Lord nobody can preach the divine knowledge and clarify the spiritual doubts.

                 

                Veda says that the Lord alone knows about Himself (Brahmavit Brahmaiva). Gita says that nobody other than the Lord can know the Lord. Some people misinterpret this Vedic statement as that he who knows Brahman becomes Brahman. But this interpretation contradicts Gita because Gita says that nobody other than the Brahman can know Brahman. The conclusion of this is that the Lord alone can preach about the Lord or Himself. Therefore from this point of view also the Lord has to come down in the human form to preach about Himself. When the Lord preaches, He preaches the concept very clearly. Then you will naturally detect the preacher as the Lord Himself. This is inevitable with any human incarnation. Now you cannot tolerate this because you misunderstand Him that He indirectly ended in Himself. You will think that He is the biggest cheater. You will be the happiest person if His divine knowledge concludes that you are the Lord in the human form. Then you will praise such knowledge. The advaita scholar solves this problem of your egoism and jealousy by saying that He and yourself are the Lord. It is a compromise in the spiritual business. Unfortunately Lord Krishna did not know such norms of the business. Throughout the Gita He repeatedly emphasized that He alone is the Lord in the human form and He preached very clearly about the Lord. He did not say even once that Arjuna was Brahman like the Advaita scholar. He asked Arjuna to salute Him, to meditate upon Him and to serve Him (Manmanabhava—Gita). If Arjuna was Brahman, Brahman cannot salute Brahman. If you have any doubt about the preacher to be the Lord, you can analyse His knowledge. First you must see whether He is coating the scriptures as a support while introducing the concepts. Then you must apply the faculty of your analysis and see whether His interpretations are logical. When you are satisfied with His divine knowledge in all angles and if such knowledge indicates Him as Lord you must accept Him.

                 

                at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

                surya

                www.universal-spirituality.org

                 



                vishal pandya <yogivishal@...> wrote:
                dear surya

                i am getting you.

                but how can you say one man as a lord even lord rama even not said
                himself as a lord.

                i am not saying ur guru is not powerful he is powerful but not the god

                sorry if i said something wrong

                thanks


                On 9/20/05, prakki surya < dattapr2000@...> wrote:
                > Oh shenoy

                > i am saadhaka only and not making any comparison with anybody. this
                > discourse was written by my Satguru His Holiness Shri Datta Swami, who is
                > Lord Datta in human form.

                > I am surya His disciple participating in His mission of divine knowledge
                > propagation. Anyway as the administrator of the Universe, it is Lord who is
                > only capable of putting people in right track. I am just a human being like
                > any other and serving Him only in His mission.

                > in your analysis, you are more concentrating on qualities forgetting about
                > the best quality devotion.  Spiritual growth itself means increase of
                > devotion on Lord day by day by getting more and more divine knowledge. we
                > should spend every minute in getting devotion which is the best quality.

                > at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
                > surya

                > veena shenoy <rajeevi0416@...> wrote:
                >
                > The real purpose of life cannot be understood by ego. When the ego is
                > dropped, you will understand the Divine purpose of life, the Leelas or the
                > Divine play. You will then enjoy the whole drama!
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > SURYA
                > surya@...
                > www.universal-spirituality.org
                >
                > __________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > http://mail.yahoo.com
                >



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              • Delia Tofolean
                Dear friends, a god is not the most powerful man in the world - he didn t believe in power or victory but in love, compasion and serenity. And all gods were
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 21, 2005
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear friends,
                   
                  a god is not the most powerful man in the world - he didn't believe in power or victory but in love, compasion and serenity. And all gods were visiting the Earth - or still do it...
                   
                  The nectar of Thy sin-effacing utterances brings life and hope to those scorched by misery. They are extolled by wise sages and the mere listening to them would bestow auspiciousness on all - they confer every boon. Those who spread them freely are verily magnanimous - they disseminate what is wholly edifying to listeners.

                   O dearest One, Thy loving looks, haunting smiles and graceful movements are most auspicious themes for meditation. Thy secret promises and sympathies touch us to the core, O great Magician. Our minds are deeply stirred by them.

                   

                  And every living god has a secret ...sometimes very dark ones.

                  Take every gift of the cosmic power.

                   

                  serenity, harmony and peace

                   

                  Delia

                   


                  vishal pandya <yogivishal@...> wrote:
                  dear friend
                   
                  from reading ur mail i got that i hert u very much but mine intention is not that.
                   
                  i am just saying the duttaswami may be most powerful man in world but still not a god
                   
                  i am very sorry for that
                   
                  i appreciate your devotion.
                   
                  thanks
                   
                  vishal
                   


                   
                  On 9/21/05, prakki surya <dattapr2000@...> wrote:

                  dear friend

                   

                  Pat of Swamiji's discourse ...........

                   

                  How can one argue that the Lord cannot come down in the human form? If He is incapable of doing so, He cannot be omnipotent. You need not argue that though the Lord is capable, there is no necessity of such human form. You may not have that necessity. Are you the only human being on this whole earth? Have you taken the opinion of all the human beings to say like this? There are several devotees who belong to Nivrutti (path of liberation) and desire for the Lord in human form to see (Darsanam), to touch (Sparsanam), to hear the knowledge and clarify their doubts (Sambhashanam) and to live along with the Lord (Sahavasa) for achieving these three for a long time. The main purpose is preaching the divine knowledge and clarify the doubts. The statues or photos or energetic forms or space cannot preach the knowledge and that is against the universal observation (perception). Preaching of the knowledge by the human forms of the Lord like Krishna, Jesus etc is observed universally and accepted perception. Such universal observation is according to the rules of the nature. When something is possible through a simple way by following the rules of the nature, is it not foolish to do the same simple thing in the complicated way violating the rules of the nature?   When water is available in plenty from the tap, what is the necessity of producing water by forcing Hydrogen and Oxygen to react with the help of an electric arc?

                   

                  To show the production of the water by this reaction, this experiment can be performed once but not every time whenever water is required. To show the super power of the Lord a statue or a photo or the energetic form or even formless space may talk once. But to preach the spiritual knowledge continuously, the Lord need not talk continuously through statues or photos or energetic forms or space. Some devotee might have experienced such super power in some place and in some time. Such experience is not supported by simultaneous universal observation. When you are seeing the moon in the sky, others are also observing the same moon simultaneously. This is required to authorise any experience. When this authorisation is absent, your experience may be true or might have been due to some psychological disorder. The existence of such psychic experience is also observed in this world. Therefore we cannot isolate the possibility of these two cases in your experience. Therefore there is a necessity for the human form of the Lord and since the Lord is omnipotent, He is coming down in the human form. There cannot be any further argument on this point. I know you are worried that the Lord is modified into the human body and thus the unchangeable Lord has to be changed. Do not worry about this point, because the Lord is never modified into the human body. He only entered into the human body. The word "Asritam" in the verse of Gita "Manushim tanumasritam" means the entry of the Lord into the human body and not the modification of the Lord as a human body. Lord Krishna in Gita clarified this in the verse "Avyaktam Vyaktimapannam".

                   

                  When a person says that God sent him as messenger and that He has brought the message of the Lord, again the same problem appears. When God is giving the message to that person, nobody has seen it. That person is the single witness. Now the leftover alternative to believe that the knowledge was given by the Lord only is that we have to test the knowledge. Had we seen the transfer of the knowledge from God to that person with our eyes, we need not test that knowledge. It must have been definitely the divine knowledge. If we have to believe a statement of that person without the simultaneous universal perception, then we have to believe even a fraud person who utters the same statement. If you give us a piece of metal and say that is Gold, since God gave it, we cannot believe it. Either we must have seen the God giving it to you or we must analyse the metal. Moreover the knowledge is not like the piece of metal, which will not change by transfer. When a teacher explains a concept to somebody and asks him to deliver it to his students, it cannot be transferred as it is. The transfer of knowledge consists of not only the concept but also the explanation. The concept might have been transferred but any body other than that original teacher cannot do the same way of explanation of the concept by which the concept pierces into the heart. Therefore to propagate the divine knowledge the Lord Himself comes down in a human form. Arjuna said the same in Gita "Tvadanyah" which means that except the Lord nobody can preach the divine knowledge and clarify the spiritual doubts.

                   

                  Veda says that the Lord alone knows about Himself (Brahmavit Brahmaiva). Gita says that nobody other than the Lord can know the Lord. Some people misinterpret this Vedic statement as that he who knows Brahman becomes Brahman. But this interpretation contradicts Gita because Gita says that nobody other than the Brahman can know Brahman. The conclusion of this is that the Lord alone can preach about the Lord or Himself. Therefore from this point of view also the Lord has to come down in the human form to preach about Himself. When the Lord preaches, He preaches the concept very clearly. Then you will naturally detect the preacher as the Lord Himself. This is inevitable with any human incarnation. Now you cannot tolerate this because you misunderstand Him that He indirectly ended in Himself. You will think that He is the biggest cheater. You will be the happiest person if His divine knowledge concludes that you are the Lord in the human form. Then you will praise such knowledge. The advaita scholar solves this problem of your egoism and jealousy by saying that He and yourself are the Lord. It is a compromise in the spiritual business. Unfortunately Lord Krishna did not know such norms of the business. Throughout the Gita He repeatedly emphasized that He alone is the Lord in the human form and He preached very clearly about the Lord. He did not say even once that Arjuna was Brahman like the Advaita scholar. He asked Arjuna to salute Him, to meditate upon Him and to serve Him (Manmanabhava?Gita). If Arjuna was Brahman, Brahman cannot salute Brahman. If you have any doubt about the preacher to be the Lord, you can analyse His knowledge. First you must see whether He is coating the scriptures as a support while introducing the concepts. Then you must apply the faculty of your analysis and see whether His interpretations are logical. When you are satisfied with His divine knowledge in all angles and if such knowledge indicates Him as Lord you must accept Him.

                   

                  at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

                  surya

                  www.universal-spirituality.org

                   



                  vishal pandya <yogivishal@...> wrote:
                  dear surya

                  i am getting you.

                  but how can you say one man as a lord even lord rama even not said
                  himself as a lord.

                  i am not saying ur guru is not powerful he is powerful but not the god

                  sorry if i said something wrong

                  thanks


                  On 9/20/05, prakki surya < dattapr2000@...> wrote:
                  > Oh shenoy

                  > i am saadhaka only and not making any comparison with anybody. this
                  > discourse was written by my Satguru His Holiness Shri Datta Swami, who is
                  > Lord Datta in human form.

                  > I am surya His disciple participating in His mission of divine knowledge
                  > propagation. Anyway as the administrator of the Universe, it is Lord who is
                  > only capable of putting people in right track. I am just a human being like
                  > any other and serving Him only in His mission.

                  > in your analysis, you are more concentrating on qualities forgetting about
                  > the best quality devotion.  Spiritual growth itself means increase of
                  > devotion on Lord day by day by getting more and more divine knowledge. we
                  > should spend every minute in getting devotion which is the best quality.

                  > at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
                  > surya

                  > veena shenoy <rajeevi0416@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The real purpose of life cannot be understood by ego. When the ego is
                  > dropped, you will understand the Divine purpose of life, the Leelas or the
                  > Divine play. You will then enjoy the whole drama!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > SURYA
                  > surya@...
                  > www.universal-spirituality.org
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  > http://mail.yahoo.com
                  >



                  Yahoo! for Good
                  Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

                  SPONSORED LINKS
                  Health and wellnessHealth wellness productHealth and wellness program
                  Health promotion and wellnessBusiness health wellnessWomens health and wellness


                  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS





                  Yahoo! for Good
                  Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

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