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Re: [Meditation Society of America] logic and meditation

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  • Michael Read
    Hello Tony. Meditation fallacies? Hmm...sure to be someone who would object but the greatest fallacy is that meditation practice will ensure enlightenment.
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 1, 2002
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      Hello Tony.

      Meditation fallacies? Hmm...sure to be someone who would object but the greatest fallacy is that meditation practice will ensure enlightenment. There are Zen teaching stories that illustrate this. And yet meditation is part and parcel of Zen teachings.

      If meditation practice will not guarantee enlightenment, why practice? Looked at this way there is nothing to be gained by meditation, eh? But, consider meditation as a looking within and we can begin to see that the who and what we think we are is not who we are. In other words, we can begin to see through the fallacies that we hold to be truths.

      All manner of things can occur during a meditation session. Joys, ecstacies, fears, emotions, visions, transports of all kinds. Meditation is a turning within, self examination as it were. It can be a fearless examination of the internal picture show where we throw can everything on the line or it can be just more distraction.

      When fear arises we may want to run from it and find the bliss. When we do the fear simply follows us. It waits, we think it is trying to trap us or bind us somehow. What it is really doing is trying to tell us to accept everything. We wil always be followed by our fears until we learn to turn and examine them, see through them, accept them let them dissolve.

      Well, I suppose I have wandered a bit from your origional suggestion. But, I think the best way to dissolve fallacies about meditation is to meditate and see what happens. :-)

      love and blessings - michael



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • medit8ionsociety
      Dear Michael and All, What is written here is so very accurate! The next issue of The Inner Traveler will have a sub-theme about Fear, so I see dealing with
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 2, 2002
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        Dear Michael and All,
        What is written here is so very accurate! The next issue of The Inner
        Traveler will have a sub-theme about Fear, so I see dealing with this
        as most beneficial to spiritual evolution. And what can be seen in
        Michael, Ganga, Judi, and others who post here, is an absence of fear.
        They have all encountered it, faced it, and seen that the "I" who was
        afraid isn't real. Once seen, no need for fear, and no focal point for
        it to focus and intensify. And then the fun begins. It was always
        there, but we tended to run away from "not fun". And after facing
        fear, Fun is fun and funny and Not Fun is fun and funny. As they say
        on the street, "It's all good".
        Peace and blessings,
        Bob
        "Michael Read" <maread@t...> wrote:
        > Hello Tony.
        >
        > Meditation fallacies? Hmm...sure to be someone who would object but
        the greatest fallacy is that meditation practice will ensure
        enlightenment. There are Zen teaching stories that illustrate this.
        And yet meditation is part and parcel of Zen teachings.
        >
        > If meditation practice will not guarantee enlightenment, why
        practice? Looked at this way there is nothing to be gained by
        meditation, eh? But, consider meditation as a looking within and we
        can begin to see that the who and what we think we are is not who we
        are. In other words, we can begin to see through the fallacies that we
        hold to be truths.
        >
        > All manner of things can occur during a meditation session. Joys,
        ecstacies, fears, emotions, visions, transports of all kinds.
        Meditation is a turning within, self examination as it were. It can be
        a fearless examination of the internal picture show where we throw can
        everything on the line or it can be just more distraction.
        >
        > When fear arises we may want to run from it and find the bliss. When
        we do the fear simply follows us. It waits, we think it is trying to
        trap us or bind us somehow. What it is really doing is trying to tell
        us to accept everything. We wil always be followed by our fears until
        we learn to turn and examine them, see through them, accept them let
        them dissolve.
        >
        > Well, I suppose I have wandered a bit from your origional
        suggestion. But, I think the best way to dissolve fallacies about
        meditation is to meditate and see what happens. :-)
        >
        > love and blessings - michael
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • judirhodes
        ... Inner ... this ... fear. ... was ... for ... ******** I saw what I had been doing all my life very clearly, and there was no way I could deny it. Stunned,
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 2, 2002
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          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@y..., medit8ionsociety
          <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > Dear Michael and All,
          > What is written here is so very accurate! The next issue of The
          Inner
          > Traveler will have a sub-theme about Fear, so I see dealing with
          this
          > as most beneficial to spiritual evolution. And what can be seen in
          > Michael, Ganga, Judi, and others who post here, is an absence of
          fear.
          > They have all encountered it, faced it, and seen that the "I" who
          was
          > afraid isn't real. Once seen, no need for fear, and no focal point
          for
          > it to focus and intensify. And then the fun begins. It was always
          > there, but we tended to run away from "not fun". And after facing
          > fear, Fun is fun and funny and Not Fun is fun and funny. As they say
          > on the street, "It's all good".
          > Peace and blessings,

          ********
          "I saw what I had been doing all my life very clearly, and there was
          no way I could deny it. Stunned, I got up from my meditation mat and
          went outside, soon finding myself walking down the hill on a dusty
          gravel road way out in the middle of nowhere, laughing wildly, then
          crying, then laughing again, at the absurd, embarrassing, beautiful
          truth of it."

          -- Scott Morrison

          Have fun! :-0
          Judi
        • tosime
          Hi Michael, Thanks for such a brilliant answer. It really hit home for me. This was one of the fallacies I lived under - and I am not sure I have escaped it
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 2, 2002
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            Hi Michael,

            Thanks for such a brilliant answer. It really hit home for me. This was one
            of the fallacies I lived under - and I am not sure I have escaped it yet!

            I like your approach of meditating to see what happens - I look forward to
            meeting all my fallacies.

            ...Tony

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Michael Read [mailto:maread@...]
            Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 10:39 PM
            To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] logic and meditation


            Hello Tony.

            Meditation fallacies? Hmm...sure to be someone who would object but the
            greatest fallacy is that meditation practice will ensure enlightenment.
            There are Zen teaching stories that illustrate this. And yet meditation is
            part and parcel of Zen teachings.

            If meditation practice will not guarantee enlightenment, why practice?
            Looked at this way there is nothing to be gained by meditation, eh? But,
            consider meditation as a looking within and we can begin to see that the who
            and what we think we are is not who we are. In other words, we can begin to
            see through the fallacies that we hold to be truths.

            All manner of things can occur during a meditation session. Joys, ecstacies,
            fears, emotions, visions, transports of all kinds. Meditation is a turning
            within, self examination as it were. It can be a fearless examination of the
            internal picture show where we throw can everything on the line or it can be
            just more distraction.

            When fear arises we may want to run from it and find the bliss. When we do
            the fear simply follows us. It waits, we think it is trying to trap us or
            bind us somehow. What it is really doing is trying to tell us to accept
            everything. We wil always be followed by our fears until we learn to turn
            and examine them, see through them, accept them let them dissolve.

            Well, I suppose I have wandered a bit from your origional suggestion. But, I
            think the best way to dissolve fallacies about meditation is to meditate and
            see what happens. :-)

            love and blessings - michael
          • Michael Read
            You are most welcome, Tony. You mention escaping. and I assume you mean the fear(s). I wish I could tell you that escape is possible...unfortunately, it isn t.
            Message 5 of 5 , Dec 2, 2002
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              You are most welcome, Tony. You mention escaping. and I assume you mean the fear(s). I wish I could tell you that escape is possible...unfortunately, it isn't. Delay, however, is the norm for us human beings. My sink full of dirty dishes is a prime example. I was going to do them when I got home but doggone-it-all I recieved a cut on my palm today and it needs to heal before doing the dishes. Gee - it is always something.

              The quote of Scott Morrison's that Judi posted. That is what happens. Now, trying to make it happen may not give the results one is looking for. And that is the delay, right there. It is almost built in. We have layered a set of great expectations onto the concept of awaking/enlightenment/understanding. We expect the Bliss, the Joy, the Light, the Holy Name of God, cosmic Awareness, Powers, infinite Love...and so on. Or, we may be desireing to somehow reconnect with the Divine.

              There is no use blaming anyone, or the circumstances of your life for having built up this huge barrier of expectations. The hurdle is there and something must be done about it. But what? Jump it and it another takes it's place. Go around and you still want to jump it. Knock it over and trample it to pieces and you just glue it back together again.
              The hurdle is only in the mind, it is illusion. So, let it go - let it be. Instead take a look at that thing which is creating the barrier. Turn from the hurdle and look at who is trying to jump over, go around.

              In my experience it IS scary when one does this. I read that Ramana felt fear before he let go. You see, finally, that the very hanging onto being you is the only barrier. You see, finally, that the illusion of this world extends even to oneself. Scary? You know it!

              To find a glimpse of how it all turns out read the Zen Ox-herding story. Here is a good rendition of the tale. http://www.mro.org/zmm/artgallery/oxherd.html

              When the revolution comes - it will be worth it. You will survive.

              ciao - michael
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: tosime
              To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 12:15 PM
              Subject: [Meditation Society of America] logic and meditation


              Hi Michael,

              Thanks for such a brilliant answer. It really hit home for me. This was one
              of the fallacies I lived under - and I am not sure I have escaped it yet!

              I like your approach of meditating to see what happens - I look forward to
              meeting all my fallacies.

              ...Tony

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Michael Read [mailto:maread@...]
              Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 10:39 PM
              To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] logic and meditation


              Hello Tony.

              Meditation fallacies? Hmm...sure to be someone who would object but the
              greatest fallacy is that meditation practice will ensure enlightenment.
              There are Zen teaching stories that illustrate this. And yet meditation is
              part and parcel of Zen teachings.

              If meditation practice will not guarantee enlightenment, why practice?
              Looked at this way there is nothing to be gained by meditation, eh? But,
              consider meditation as a looking within and we can begin to see that the who
              and what we think we are is not who we are. In other words, we can begin to
              see through the fallacies that we hold to be truths.

              All manner of things can occur during a meditation session. Joys, ecstacies,
              fears, emotions, visions, transports of all kinds. Meditation is a turning
              within, self examination as it were. It can be a fearless examination of the
              internal picture show where we throw can everything on the line or it can be
              just more distraction.

              When fear arises we may want to run from it and find the bliss. When we do
              the fear simply follows us. It waits, we think it is trying to trap us or
              bind us somehow. What it is really doing is trying to tell us to accept
              everything. We wil always be followed by our fears until we learn to turn
              and examine them, see through them, accept them let them dissolve.

              Well, I suppose I have wandered a bit from your origional suggestion. But, I
              think the best way to dissolve fallacies about meditation is to meditate and
              see what happens. :-)

              love and blessings - michael


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