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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Meditation and blood pressure

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  • Rushikant Mehta
    Hello Tony, very happy to know u ve been doing meditation for abt 4 yrs now. Can u plz favor us & tell what type of meditation u r doing & how ? Like me many
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 13, 2005
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      Hello Tony, very happy to know u've been doing meditation for abt 4 yrs now.
      Can u plz favor us & tell what type of meditation u r doing & how ? Like me many others may be interested in knowing. Thank u.
       
      -rushikant.

      Tony Osime <tony.osime@...> wrote:
      Hello Diana,

      Thanks for your comments.
      My meditation is very relaxed. I have been practicing for about 4 years now.
      I believe that meditation has helped to reduce the impact of day to day work
      stress while helping me develop spiritually. "I" am separate from my
      thoughts, even though I have to use the language of my thoughts to
      communicate with others (Like I am doing now) and myself. I look forward to
      the day I am free from the language of thought for communication both with
      others and with myself.

      I also had many "mind induced" ailments. When I look back on my health
      before meditation I feel as if 80% of all my ailments were psychosomatic.

      I have done some research on the internet and I think I have some answers to
      why blood pressure might naturally rise during meditation. The theory is
      that while in meditation your muscles are so relaxed and you are so still
      that your blood circulates less through the outer capillaries since these
      areas need less blood. Since your total blood volume remains the same in the
      short term, this translates into a small increase in pressure. The converse
      also happens. If you started vigorous exercise, your blood pressure would
      fall since more of your blood is pumped to the muscles and the outer
      capillaries. This makes sense to me.

      My guess is that blood pressure is influenced by a number of things and any
      one of them could have a short term dominance. While in meditation, my calm
      mind may reduce my blood pressure, but my physical stillness may increase
      it. Also if my heart beat slows, it might have pump harder to compensate
      which might increase pressure. All in all, it is interesting learning but
      probably not something we should worry about.

      ...Tony

      Diana wrote...

      Message: 2        
         Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 21:02:35 -0700 (PDT)
         From: Diana Woods <spirit_first_org@...>
      Subject: Re: Meditation and blood pressure

      Hi Tony.
      Interesting study. I am curious, though, to know if your meditation practice
      (especially if it is new) is relaxed for you or if it is a struggle. Is the
      attempt to change old habits into a new practice affecting your blood
      pressure? (This, of course, would be temporary, until you become more
      practiced in becoming the meditation instead of working the meditation.)
      I discovered dramatic health benefits from meditation, first in healing a
      serious skin infection (something I sought in meditation) and then in
      overcoming severe lactose intolerance (something I did not seek but that
      happened from an intensive meditation retreat).
      I am curious to know how blood pressure works for you and others in
      meditation--I cannot imagine one's stepping out of the thinking mind to
      contribute to a rise in blood pressure.
      Interesting study...
      I wish you much blessing.
      Diana







      May All Beings be Happy, be Peaceful, be Liberated from Misery.

      Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

    • Diana Woods
      Hi Tony. Please forgive my delayed reply. I spent the past week editing a brand-new book (a condensed version of the full book coming out next year) called An
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 14, 2005
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        Hi Tony.
         
        Please forgive my delayed reply. I spent the past week editing a brand-new book (a condensed version of the full book coming out next year) called An Essential Guide to Peace and Authentic Power, a beautiful book by Jonathan Evatt, a young new writer from New Zealand. I am honored to have been part of such a lovely creation.
         
        The intensive meditation retreat that lead to such dramatic health results was a nine-day Avatar program with Star's Edge International. For me it was a nine-day retreat in the wilderness in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains; I was the only student during that time and I had two masters training me. I believe the relevant factor was that I spent most of ten hours a day working on expanding consciousness (the doctrine or style of the program not being the key element). I spent almost all of my waking hours in some form of meditation or attempted meditation (which is in itself a meditation). On the last day of the program I experienced my first of what I believe I can call an "out of body" experience (though not truly out of body because while I was beyond my body, I was also within my body).
         
        After the nine-day course I discovered my severe lactose intolerance was gone (which was not even explored during that time).
         
        I am now developing a book manuscript called What Do You Do When You Meditate? that presents real-life personal stories of meditation experience.
         
        Thank you for your continued conversation in these pages...
         
        Diana
         


        Tony Osime <tony.osime@...> wrote:
        Hi Diana,

        Wanted to thank you again for your comments.

        I am curious about your intensive meditation retreat. Could you tell us
        more. What activities did you perform? What were the experiences of
        others? How did the experience change your perspective of meditation?

        Look forward to your reply...Tony

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      • Tony Osime
        Hello Rushikant, It is my pleasure to describe my meditation practice. I practice inner sounds meditation. I use ear plugs to eliminate most external sounds. I
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 14, 2005
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          Hello Rushikant,

          It is my pleasure to describe my meditation practice.

          I practice inner sounds meditation. I use ear plugs to eliminate most
          external sounds. I close my eyes. In a relaxed position, I allow my thoughts
          to gently subside; this typically follows my physical relaxation.

          As I relax and my mental chatter subsides, I become increasingly aware of my
          inner sounds. It starts like the white noise you get when a TV is not tuned
          to any channel. Eventually you notice distinct sounds within the general
          background sounds. If you pay very subtle attention to the most subtle of
          these distinct sounds you are gently pulled into deeper levels of
          meditation. At a certain point you get flushes of endorphins - very
          pleasurable but essentially a distraction. Further still you reach very
          peaceful states of nothingness where all time and meaning appear to cease.
          At this stage there is almost no desire - to continue meditation or to stop,
          even to breath.

          This is as far as I have gone.

          The hardest part is to quiet the mind chatter. The next challenge is to
          latch onto an inner sound. If you focus too strongly the sound disappears
          and you are left empty. If you focus too lightly, the sound passes you by
          and you are again left empty. If you get the focus just right, you are
          pulled to a deeper level of meditation - almost like a traveler on a journey
          reaches a new land.

          At different points I sometimes get insights. I try not to focus on them
          since they can pull you back into thought.

          I hope this gives you a good picture of my practice. Please let me know if
          you want more.

          ...Tony
        • Rushikant Mehta
          Sure, Tony, from where did u learn it ? who r others doing it ? Is there a guide too ? plz give out more. It s interesting. -rushikant. Tony Osime
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 14, 2005
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            Sure, Tony, from where did u learn it ? who r others doing it ? Is there a guide too ? plz give out more. It's interesting.

            -rushikant.

             



            Tony Osime <tony.osime@...> wrote:
            Hello Rushikant,

            It is my pleasure to describe my meditation practice.

            I practice inner sounds meditation. I use ear plugs to eliminate most
            external sounds. I close my eyes. In a relaxed position, I allow my thoughts
            to gently subside; this typically follows my physical relaxation.

            As I relax and my mental chatter subsides, I become increasingly aware of my
            inner sounds. It starts like the white noise you get when a TV is not tuned
            to any channel. Eventually you notice distinct sounds within the general
            background sounds. If you pay very subtle attention to the most subtle of
            these distinct sounds you are gently pulled into deeper levels of
            meditation. At a certain point you get flushes of endorphins - very
            pleasurable but essentially a distraction. Further still you reach very
            peaceful states of nothingness where all time and meaning appear to cease.
            At this stage there is almost no desire - to continue meditation or to stop,
            even to breath.

            This is as far as I have gone.

            The hardest part is to quiet the mind chatter. The next challenge is to
            latch onto an inner sound. If you focus too strongly the sound disappears
            and you are left empty. If you focus too lightly, the sound passes you by
            and you are again left empty. If you get the focus just right, you are
            pulled to a deeper level of meditation - almost like a traveler on a journey
            reaches a new land.

            At different points I sometimes get insights. I try not to focus on them
            since they can pull you back into thought.

            I hope this gives you a good picture of my practice. Please let me know if
            you want more.

            ...Tony




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          • Tony Osime
            Hi Diana, Thanks for such a wonderful reply - it was definitely worth the wait. The book you edited sounds fascinating. Could you give us a little summary of
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 15, 2005
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              Hi Diana,

              Thanks for such a wonderful reply - it was definitely worth the wait.

              The book you edited sounds fascinating. Could you give us a little summary
              of the key message? Did you feel yourself change in any way as you edited
              the book?

              Your out of body experience also sounds fascinating. I had a few
              experiences. What I discovered was that my mind is sufficiently
              sophisticated to create the "appearance" of an out of body experience to the
              extent that I cannot quite tell the difference. In my case tiny details told
              me my experience was my creation rather than "reality". However, the
              experience helped me appreciate that even what we call "reality" is also our
              creation to a large extent - depending on how "conscious" you are. This
              might sound weird but what I am writing right now might actually be you
              writing yourself!

              Anyway - back to another reality.

              Your new book manuscript sounds interesting. Can we help you in any way?
              (Does that statement sound familiar?)

              Look forward to your reply...Tony


              Message: 1
              Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:58:46 -0700 (PDT)
              From: Diana Woods <spirit_first_org@...>
              Subject: Re: Meditation and blood pressure

              Hi Tony.

              Please forgive my delayed reply. I spent the past week editing a brand-new
              book (a condensed version of the full book coming out next year) called An
              Essential Guide to Peace and Authentic Power, a beautiful book by Jonathan
              Evatt, a young new writer from New Zealand. I am honored to have been part
              of such a lovely creation.

              The intensive meditation retreat that lead to such dramatic health results
              was a nine-day Avatar program with Star's Edge International. For me it was
              a nine-day retreat in the wilderness in the foothills of the Blue Ridge
              Mountains; I was the only student during that time and I had two masters
              training me. I believe the relevant factor was that I spent most of ten
              hours a day working on expanding consciousness (the doctrine or style of the
              program not being the key element). I spent almost all of my waking hours in
              some form of meditation or attempted meditation (which is in itself a
              meditation). On the last day of the program I experienced my first of what I
              believe I can call an "out of body" experience (though not truly out of body
              because while I was beyond my body, I was also within my body).

              After the nine-day course I discovered my severe lactose intolerance was
              gone (which was not even explored during that time).

              I am now developing a book manuscript called What Do You Do When You
              Meditate? that presents real-life personal stories of meditation experience.

              Thank you for your continued conversation in these pages...

              Diana
            • Tony Osime
              Hi Rushikant, The technique I use is mostly self-taught. I picked up the method of using earplugs from a book or some internet material. I had such good
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 15, 2005
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                Hi Rushikant,

                The technique I use is mostly self-taught. I picked up the method of using
                earplugs from a book or some internet material. I had such good results I
                never seriously considered changing.

                Most of what I have developed has come from my own experience. I
                experimented quite a bit, but simply tried to understand what was happening
                and also tried to find a slightly better way.

                I have been limited a bit by fear of the unknown. There are times when
                things have happened and I have had to rush out of my session out of fear.

                For example, in one session I heard a faint distant bell like sound that
                gradually got louder and louder. It got so loud I felt like something inside
                my head was going to explode so I quickly broke off the session. I have
                since regretted that action as I feel that I was going through some form of
                transformation that I have never been able to recreate.

                Also my sessions now are no where near as blissful as they were some years
                ago. I sort of miss that period as it was almost like getting naturally high
                each time I meditated.

                Some other pointers? I strike a bell three times before I start my session
                and I use the fading reverberation as a sort of calibrating device that
                helps me tune into the inner sounds.

                Please let me know if you want more.

                ...Tony
                ________________________________________________________________________
                ________________________________________________________________________

                Message: 4
                Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 04:31:05 +0100 (BST)
                From: Rushikant Mehta <rushi_kant@...>
                Subject: Re: Meditation and blood pressure

                Sure, Tony, from where did u learn it ? who r others doing it ? Is there a
                guide too ? plz give out more. It's interesting.

                -rushikant.




                Tony Osime <tony.osime@...> wrote:
                Hello Rushikant,

                It is my pleasure to describe my meditation practice.

                I practice inner sounds meditation. I use ear plugs to eliminate most
                external sounds. I close my eyes. In a relaxed position, I allow my thoughts
                to gently subside; this typically follows my physical relaxation.

                As I relax and my mental chatter subsides, I become increasingly aware of my
                inner sounds. It starts like the white noise you get when a TV is not tuned
                to any channel. Eventually you notice distinct sounds within the general
                background sounds. If you pay very subtle attention to the most subtle of
                these distinct sounds you are gently pulled into deeper levels of
                meditation. At a certain point you get flushes of endorphins - very
                pleasurable but essentially a distraction. Further still you reach very
                peaceful states of nothingness where all time and meaning appear to cease.
                At this stage there is almost no desire - to continue meditation or to stop,
                even to breath.

                This is as far as I have gone.

                The hardest part is to quiet the mind chatter. The next challenge is to
                latch onto an inner sound. If you focus too strongly the sound disappears
                and you are left empty. If you focus too lightly, the sound passes you by
                and you are again left empty. If you get the focus just right, you are
                pulled to a deeper level of meditation - almost like a traveler on a journey
                reaches a new land.

                At different points I sometimes get insights. I try not to focus on them
                since they can pull you back into thought.

                I hope this gives you a good picture of my practice. Please let me know if
                you want more.

                ...Tony
              • Rushikant Mehta
                Indeed Great! Wonderful Tony ! The most interesting part seems u r probably in the process of developing your own process ! Sound, the ear-sense-object as a
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 15, 2005
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                  Indeed Great! Wonderful Tony ! The most interesting part seems u r probably in the process of developing your own process !
                   
                  Sound, the ear-sense-object as a meditation tool though less widely known in practice, seems to be facinating! Since the factory inside the body is working 24x7, inner sounds are always available for attention, right ?
                   
                  U r right, u very nearly missed a jumping board in that frightful moment. But no need to doubt it will return. It may be wiser to just leave it to Nature without craving for it. 
                   
                  Isn't it  like a voyage in the skies with no fixed roads, no road-signs, no landmarks ? It has its own challenges & thrills ! Bravo ! few attempt that. Wish u success, self-earned & well deserved. Hope u overcome trying moments determinedly, patiently & persistently.
                   
                  We, in vipassana, use the touch sense, touch the whole body surface with the mind & observe the sensations it creates & learn to observe them objectively. It does two things. keeps the mind in present, penetrates the subconscious & does the cleaning job ! But we fortunately have a very well defined route, cheking signals, motivating colleagues, supportive environment & senior counsellers  to keep us on tract !
                  Well, all the best, all the time, with all that  sounds mysterious !

                  rushikant.

                   



                  Tony Osime <tony.osime@...> wrote:
                  Hi Rushikant,

                  The technique I use is mostly self-taught. I picked up the method of using
                  earplugs from a book or some internet material. I had such good results I
                  never seriously considered changing.

                  Most of what I have developed has come from my own experience. I
                  experimented quite a bit, but simply tried to understand what was happening
                  and also tried to find a slightly better way.

                  I have been limited a bit by fear of the unknown. There are times when
                  things have happened and I have had to rush out of my session out of fear.

                  For example, in one session I heard a faint distant bell like sound that
                  gradually got louder and louder. It got so loud I felt like something inside
                  my head was going to explode so I quickly broke off the session. I have
                  since regretted that action as I feel that I was going through some form of
                  transformation that I have never been able to recreate.

                  Also my sessions now are no where near as blissful as they were some years
                  ago. I sort of miss that period as it was almost like getting naturally high
                  each time I meditated.

                  Some other pointers? I strike a bell three times before I start my session
                  and I use the fading reverberation as a sort of calibrating device that
                  helps me tune into the inner sounds.

                  Please let me know if you want more.

                  ...Tony
                  ________________________________________________________________________
                  ________________________________________________________________________

                  Message: 4        
                     Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 04:31:05 +0100 (BST)
                     From: Rushikant Mehta <rushi_kant@...>
                  Subject: Re: Meditation and blood pressure

                  Sure, Tony, from where did u learn it ? who r others doing it ? Is there a
                  guide too ? plz give out more. It's interesting.

                  -rushikant.




                  Tony Osime <tony.osime@...> wrote:
                  Hello Rushikant,

                  It is my pleasure to describe my meditation practice.

                  I practice inner sounds meditation. I use ear plugs to eliminate most
                  external sounds. I close my eyes. In a relaxed position, I allow my thoughts
                  to gently subside; this typically follows my physical relaxation.

                  As I relax and my mental chatter subsides, I become increasingly aware of my
                  inner sounds. It starts like the white noise you get when a TV is not tuned
                  to any channel. Eventually you notice distinct sounds within the general
                  background sounds. If you pay very subtle attention to the most subtle of
                  these distinct sounds you are gently pulled into deeper levels of
                  meditation. At a certain point you get flushes of endorphins - very
                  pleasurable but essentially a distraction. Further still you reach very
                  peaceful states of nothingness where all time and meaning appear to cease.
                  At this stage there is almost no desire - to continue meditation or to stop,
                  even to breath.

                  This is as far as I have gone.

                  The hardest part is to quiet the mind chatter. The next challenge is to
                  latch onto an inner sound. If you focus too strongly the sound disappears
                  and you are left empty. If you focus too lightly, the sound passes you by
                  and you are again left empty. If you get the focus just right, you are
                  pulled to a deeper level of meditation - almost like a traveler on a journey
                  reaches a new land.

                  At different points I sometimes get insights. I try not to focus on them
                  since they can pull you back into thought.

                  I hope this gives you a good picture of my practice. Please let me know if
                  you want more.

                  ...Tony






                  May All Beings be Happy, be Peaceful, be Liberated from Misery.

                  Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

                • Diana Woods
                  Hi Tony, Yes, the book affected me deeply as I edited it and as I continue reading it...but then...I chose this writer to give my time and attention to because
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 20, 2005
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                    Hi Tony,
                     
                    Yes, the book affected me deeply as I edited it and as I continue reading it...but then...I chose this writer to give my time and attention to because I want to be engaged with his message. What better way for me to learn from wisdom than to interact with it...  I was careful, recognizing the possibility of my leaving an imprint on another's words (when I work with students I don't feel that way but working with a spiritual writing made me careful not to inject myself into the writing).  
                     
                    The edited book is a message about the illusion we call reality, about understanding the difference between our Selves and the stories we tell, about increasing awareness, and about practices to lead to peace and authentic power (and what it really is). Jonathan's upcoming book is called The Seven Empowerments and will be complete next year. This new condensed version is a great first step. Jonathan has been in a meditation retreat for the past week but when he returns home I will work with him on getting the condensed version available to the public. You can access his blog at http://www.feal.org/blog2/ Let me know what you think...
                    For my meditation book, I am still looking for personal answers to the questions "Where Do You Meditate?" (like "I have a meditation room in the basement of my house" or "I meditate in my garden sitting next to the lilies" or "I have designated a corner of my bedroom as my space for meditation and I have a Buddha and several candles and chimes there"). And answers to the question "When Do You Meditate?" (like "first thing in the morning when I wake up and before I turn on the news" or "just before I go to sleep at night so I can slip into a peaceful sleep" or "I take a break in the middle of the day and step into the silence of the empty sanctuary next door to my office" (which is what I really do). I want real answers from real people to give an honest picture of the many times and places we step into this sacred space.
                     
                    Thanks for asking...
                     
                    I wish you blessings on your day.
                    Diana

                    Tony Osime <tony.osime@...> wrote:

                    Hi Diana,

                    Thanks for such a wonderful reply - it was definitely worth the wait.

                    The book you edited sounds fascinating. Could you give us a little summary
                    of the key message? Did you feel yourself change in any way as you edited
                    the book?

                    Your out of body experience also sounds fascinating. I had a few
                    experiences. What I discovered was that my mind is sufficiently
                    sophisticated to create the "appearance" of an out of body experience to the
                    extent that I cannot quite tell the difference. In my case tiny details told
                    me my experience was my creation rather than "reality". However, the
                    experience helped me appreciate that even what we call "reality" is also our
                    creation to a large extent - depending on how "conscious" you are. This
                    might sound weird but what I am writing right now might actually be you
                    writing yourself!

                    Anyway - back to another reality.

                    Your new book manuscript sounds interesting. Can we help you in any way?
                    (Does that statement sound familiar?)

                    Look forward to your reply...Tony


                    Message: 1        
                       Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:58:46 -0700 (PDT)
                       From: Diana Woods <spirit_first_org@...>
                    Subject: Re: Meditation and blood pressure

                    Hi Tony.

                    Please forgive my delayed reply. I spent the past week editing a brand-new
                    book (a condensed version of the full book coming out next year) called An
                    Essential Guide to Peace and Authentic Power, a beautiful book by Jonathan
                    Evatt, a young new writer from New Zealand. I am honored to have been part
                    of such a lovely creation.

                    The intensive meditation retreat that lead to such dramatic health results
                    was a nine-day Avatar program with Star's Edge International. For me it was
                    a nine-day retreat in the wilderness in the foothills of the Blue Ridge
                    Mountains; I was the only student during that time and I had two masters
                    training me. I believe the relevant factor was that I spent most of ten
                    hours a day working on expanding consciousness (the doctrine or style of the
                    program not being the key element). I spent almost all of my waking hours in
                    some form of meditation or attempted meditation (which is in itself a
                    meditation). On the last day of the program I experienced my first of what I
                    believe I can call an "out of body" experience (though not truly out of body
                    because while I was beyond my body, I was also within my body).

                    After the nine-day course I discovered my severe lactose intolerance was
                    gone (which was not even explored during that time).

                    I am now developing a book manuscript called What Do You Do When You
                    Meditate? that presents real-life personal stories of meditation experience.

                    Thank you for your continued conversation in these pages...

                    Diana






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