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  • de la rouviere
    Dear friends, Thought you may find this reply to a few very perceptive questions and remarks from Doug to the Spiritual Humanism group interesting. By the
    Message 1 of 2 , May 20, 2005
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      Dear friends,
       
      Thought you may find this reply to a few very perceptive questions and remarks from Doug to the Spiritual Humanism group interesting.  By the way, if you have a moment, do look us up.  Some interesting material there as well.
       
      >>Dear Doug,
       
      Thanks for joining Spiritual Humanism. And a warm welcome! Looking at your first post here, I am sure we are going to have very interesting conversations around topics you might introduce.
       
      You said:
       
      >>>
       Humanism is a new term to me as well as spirituality without god.
      A question I have is how does non duality work in humanism without a
      source or god or whatever to be one with?>>>
       
      (Moller)
       
      You have touched here on one of the central themes of this enquiry.  You may therefore appreciate that I could only give broad outlines to a subject which is extensively explored in my book.  The problem for me when confronted with a question such as yours, is where to begin and where to end.  This is why I wrote a book, because there I could deal with every aspect of these matters clearly and comprehensively.  But let me try to reply as concise as possible.
       
      Not unlike the Buddha's original teachings, my insight into these matters also rejects both soul and God.  Naturally, this would imply that there is no soul to be (become) one with God.  My criticism of most of the spiritual, mystical and religious traditions is that these have projected a God where there is no such thing, state or experience, and assuming a basic dualistic disposition of humankind relative to this projection of the Great Other in the form of an inner entity called 'Soul'.  God is There.  Soul is here.  Soul must merge with God; be with God; or realize its fundamental unity with God. This in short sums up all traditional God/soul philosophies. And it is the indiscriminate projection of these philosophies, theories and metaphysical speculations by the traditions that Spiritual Humanism seeks to address in order to bring humankind's quest for integral living back into the human realm where it belongs, and from where it should never have been removed. After having had our gods around for the better part of 6ooo years, our human situation seems to be in no way better off for having them. My sense is that the time has now arrived for us to look to the source of all human experience - humanity itself- if we are going to resolve the problems we have created for ourselves. We have unquestioningly put faith in something we have created and projected 'out there' to be our source of inspiration and assistance.  But clearly, nothing good could come from this 'Source' as it never existed in the first place other than as part of the imaginative and projective potential of thought.
       
      Now, when we no longer concern ourselves with this great Other and its human counter-part, the soul, we are left with nothing but our humanity.  Here we are then, human beings - trying to make sense of a world in which we have to function in a practical, integral, loving and intelligent way. No doubt, not easy. Yet, if we are not once again forced by the difficulties, uncertainties, suffering and ultimate mystery of our ordinary human living to project some God out there to come to our rescue in times of need (and when is not a time of need?), we have only our human potential to fall back on  to resolve these matters for us. And here I use the word 'only' to mean not in comparison to some presumed Higher truth, but as 'nothing other than'. Spiritual Humanism suggests that for human beings there is only human life, and that both its suffering and the resolution of its suffering are integral to human life alone and therefore possible in the context of human life. Generally we are only aware of our suffering.  We have not deeply explored our human potential for relieving ourselves comprehensively and sustainably from what we have done to ourselves.  In fact, from our suffering and uninspected living, we projected Gods to do this work for us.  It never worked, other than providing us with a psychological comfort zone in times of distress. Merging with God and going to heaven are both based on fear, which is the natural consequence of uninspected living.
       
      Your question about the term 'spirituality' is therefore vital to this enquiry.  You asked how can there be spirituality without God?  Perhaps one could reply by saying: How could there be spirituality *with* God - if God is nothing but a projection of the fertile human imagination?  Yet, if we do not allow ourselves to get too distracted by this whole notion of God or no-God, and we stay with present evidence i.e.our human condition, we may begin to observe there is both vastly less and vastly more to us than we generally believe about ourselves.  Appropriate inner work such as self-observation, meditation, direct experience and so on, (again explained in detail in my book) will reveal that much of the complications we experience are due to false perceptions we have about ourselves and our world.  We superimpose these onto our lives in an uninspected way and dramatize these as though they are a necessary part of human living.  In this way we become vastly *more* than the simplicity of our natural state.  On the other hand, the same kind of inner work may reveal that there are qualities within ourselves which are so much more beautiful and pure than those we dramatize during our unaware moments as part of uninspected living. Spiritual Humanism suggests that inner work makes us less complicated,  while at the same time allows for the fullness of our natural condition to unfold gradually in the context of appropriate inner work.
       
      If we now try to look for a word or term to describe these deeper qualities of human potential, such as compassion, care, love, artistic expression, intelligence, awareness, relational integrity, a free spirit of enquiry, unconditioned emotional responses, the sense of well-being, happiness and joy and the revelation of non-dual reality, it seems not inappropriate to call these finer human qualities simply 'spiritual'.
       
      You described some of these very beautifully:
       
      Doug:
      >>>
      This present aliveness gives a feeling of
      wonder,newness and a sense of being connected to the things and
      people we come in contact with..>>>
       
      (Moller)
      These are manifestations not of what we generally associate with the body, nor are they created and sustained by thought or conditioned emotional responses.  They seem to appear and become functional when we create the appropriate circumstance for them to reveal themselves.  Normally they are hidden or obscured by other faculties such as compulsive thinking, unresolved emotional reactivities and habitual patterns of conditioned response- all forms of uninspected living.  But given space through correct inner work, these soon show themselves as integrally part of our human potential - human spiritual qualities without god. By discovering ways of opening up to the truth of natural condition, these will show themselves to have been there all along.  They were just obscured through uninspected living.
       
      Spiritual Humanism suggests ways by which these obscurations could effectively and permanently be removed and transcended. The thrust of my book is to bring the enquirer to a *sustainable* kind of non-dual living which is not only true for a few moments of meditative awakening or intermittend periods after that.  For me there is only one truth and that is Nonduality as it expresses itself in our daily living. Our task is to find ways to facilitate this on an ongoing basis.  Again, not easy.  But most certainly worth trying. We have only our suffering as presumed separate creatures to lose.
       
      Once we have removed that which presumes separation from within ourselves, what remains is the nondual truth of the living moment. No merging of anything into any-Thing is necessary or even possible. Nobody has ever seen either their 'I' or God. Neither were there from the start.
       
      Hope I have addressed some of your questions and observations.>>
       
      Hand in hand,
      Moller de la Rouviere
      Author of: Spirituality Without God
       

    • medit8ionsociety
      ... and remarks from Doug to the Spiritual Humanism group interesting. By the way, if you have a moment, do look us up. Some interesting material there as
      Message 2 of 2 , May 20, 2005
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "de la rouviere"
        <mollerdlr@t...> wrote:
        > Dear friends,
        >
        > Thought you may find this reply to a few very perceptive questions
        and remarks from Doug to the Spiritual Humanism group interesting. By
        the way, if you have a moment, do look us up. Some interesting
        material there as well.
        >
        ...I could only give broad outlines to a subject which is extensively
        explored in my book...This is why I wrote a book, because there I
        could deal with every aspect of these matters clearly and
        comprehensively...

        snip

        > Hand in hand,
        > Moller de la Rouviere
        > Author of: Spirituality Without God
        > www.spiritualhumanism.co.za

        Daily unpaid ad for book and group
        noted (and commented about to me by
        several members of this group :-)

        Peace and blessings,
        Bob

        PS: We don't take ads paid for or not,
        but certainly welcome efforts to enlighten
        content in posts, as Mollers seemingly are.
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