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[Meditation Society of America] Re: TRANSMISSION

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  • jasonjamesmorgan
    ... Well, well, Your a bit father off than I originally thought. I see you are still doing your sadhana to the end of savikalpa samadhi. For if you were
    Message 1 of 22 , May 3, 2005
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      >
      > The Self is of nothing in this world. The laws of
      > physics do not apply, facile similes notwithstanding.
      >
      > Everyone is the Self. Nobody is "more" the Self,
      > despite what superstitious folk want to believe
      > about their gurus.
      >
      > The guru isn't there to zap you with shakti. That's
      > a myth some gurus use to make themselves popular.
      >
      > What a 'dispeller of darkness' does is illuminate
      > the thoughts of his/her devotees by pointing out
      > the Self in their awareness. It's not something
      > you catch vibrationally, it's something that's
      > suddenly apparent when it wasn't before. The guru
      > can make the connection for you, but you've got to
      > see it alone, completely outside any mythological
      > beliefs anyone has about gurus.

      Well, well,

      Your a bit father off than I originally thought. I see you are still
      doing your sadhana to the end of savikalpa samadhi. For if you were
      realized, you would know that duality is obvious and apparent and
      GOD. You have not realized, as you denie one side of the coin.

      A person can send prana to wherever, whenever they choose.

      So sad, so close, but to stubborn in his sadhana to drop the concept
      of no concepts.

      I grow bored of this. Maybe I will be back next year. My compassion
      might bring forth a thought or two for you. Ta Ta.

      Namaste
      Om Namah Shivaya
    • Reynold Wingate
      Can you please rephrase the last two paragraphs? I have read somewhere that when high-sounding words are abundant in writing, that s a sign the writer is not
      Message 2 of 22 , May 3, 2005
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        Can you please rephrase the last two paragraphs? I
        have read somewhere that when high-sounding words are
        abundant in writing, that's a sign the writer is not
        very sure of what he is talking about. Good writing on
        spirituality should be simple and easy to understand.
        I am lost in the last two paragraphs you wrote. Sorry!

        Reynold
        --- Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:

        ---------------------------------
        Reynold Wingate wrote:

        >Jiddu Krishnamoorthy used to dissuade those who
        wanted
        >to become disciples.
        >
        Well, he tried to do it --
        unfortunately, after he
        died he became the nexus
        of YAPBC (Yet Another
        Posthumous Bhakti Cult).

        >He believed the spiritual path o
        >each individual is different.
        >
        That's a fact, no belief
        is required.

        >A guru can only give
        >general tips to grow spiritually based on his own
        >personal experience.
        >
        Yes, just as pointing at
        the moon isn't that same
        as being able to grab it
        and hand it over. ;-)

        >It may not necessarily work for
        >his disciples.
        >
        >
        Clearly, otherwise such
        "disciples" would themselves
        uniformly be realized.
        There's obviously no
        universal recipe for that.

        >I believe a guru is not an absolute necessity for
        >spiritual growth. If you have the desire deep in you,
        >you will stumble into the truth some day.
        >
        >
        As Jodyji himself has put it,
        the only actual prerequisite
        is sincerity. This brings
        energy and determination --
        but also an awareness that
        "the desire deep within you"
        may in fact be nothing more
        or other than garden variety
        ambition, abeit clothed in
        "spear-chill" raiment!

        Can we be both sincere and
        indefatigable in our enquiry
        without hope of status and
        attainment? Isn't that the
        subtly elusive "purity" that
        is so often spoken of among
        seekers, the surrendered
        attitude expressed by "Not
        my will, but thine" and the
        very essence of both honest
        enquiry and authentic
        meditation?


        >--- jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
        >
        >---------------------------------
        >--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
        >jasonjamesmorgan
        ><no_reply@y...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >>Hello, hello,
        >>
        >>Put two glasses of water side by side, and the
        >>
        >>
        >temperatures even
        >
        >
        >>out. This is called resonance. If you want to
        >>
        >>
        >defute transmition,
        >
        >
        >>go to the local university, and prove the world
        >>
        >>
        >wrong.
        >
        >The Self is of nothing in this world. The laws of
        >physics do not apply, facile similes notwithstanding.
        >
        >Everyone is the Self. Nobody is "more" the Self,
        >despite what superstitious folk want to believe
        >about their gurus.
        >
        >The guru isn't there to zap you with shakti. That's
        >a myth some gurus use to make themselves popular.
        >
        >What a 'dispeller of darkness' does is illuminate
        >the thoughts of his/her devotees by pointing out
        >the Self in their awareness. It's not something
        >you catch vibrationally, it's something that's
        >suddenly apparent when it wasn't before. The guru
        >can make the connection for you, but you've got to
        >see it alone, completely outside any mythological
        >beliefs anyone has about gurus.
        >
        >



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      • Bruce Morgen
        ... I could, but with all due respect, I ll decline that request at his time. ... An absurd contention imo, especially given that there is no consensus on what
        Message 3 of 22 , May 4, 2005
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          Reynold Wingate wrote:

          >Can you please rephrase the last two paragraphs?
          >
          I could, but with all due
          respect, I'll decline that
          request at his time.

          >I
          >have read somewhere that when high-sounding words are
          >abundant in writing, that's a sign the writer is not
          >very sure of what he is talking about.
          >
          An absurd contention imo,
          especially given that
          there is no consensus on
          what "high-sounding"
          means.

          >Good writing on
          >spirituality should be simple and easy to understand.
          >
          >
          Well, that certainly puts
          a good deal of what the
          ancients wrote out of the
          running, doesn't it?

          >I am lost in the last two paragraphs you wrote. Sorry!
          >
          >
          Me too -- but there it is.
          Are you sure you're not
          being a bit lazy in your
          approach? I can see only
          one or two words in those
          paragraphs that are all
          that uncommon, and the
          sentences parse pretty
          easily. The gists of both
          are quite simple and I'd be
          glad to discuss whatever
          specifics are eluding you.

          Thank you for your interest!

          >Reynold
          >--- Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:
          >
          >---------------------------------
          >Reynold Wingate wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >>Jiddu Krishnamoorthy used to dissuade those who
          >>
          >>
          >wanted
          >
          >
          >>to become disciples.
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >Well, he tried to do it --
          >unfortunately, after he
          >died he became the nexus
          >of YAPBC (Yet Another
          >Posthumous Bhakti Cult).
          >
          >
          >
          >>He believed the spiritual path o
          >>each individual is different.
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >That's a fact, no belief
          >is required.
          >
          >
          >
          >>A guru can only give
          >>general tips to grow spiritually based on his own
          >>personal experience.
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >Yes, just as pointing at
          >the moon isn't that same
          >as being able to grab it
          >and hand it over. ;-)
          >
          >
          >
          >>It may not necessarily work for
          >>his disciples.
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >Clearly, otherwise such
          >"disciples" would themselves
          >uniformly be realized.
          >There's obviously no
          >universal recipe for that.
          >
          >
          >
          >>I believe a guru is not an absolute necessity for
          >>spiritual growth. If you have the desire deep in you,
          >>you will stumble into the truth some day.
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >As Jodyji himself has put it,
          >the only actual prerequisite
          >is sincerity. This brings
          >energy and determination --
          >but also an awareness that
          >"the desire deep within you"
          >may in fact be nothing more
          >or other than garden variety
          >ambition, abeit clothed in
          >"spear-chill" raiment!
          >
          >Can we be both sincere and
          >indefatigable in our enquiry
          >without hope of status and
          >attainment? Isn't that the
          >subtly elusive "purity" that
          >is so often spoken of among
          >seekers, the surrendered
          >attitude expressed by "Not
          >my will, but thine" and the
          >very essence of both honest
          >enquiry and authentic
          >meditation?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >>--- jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
          >>
          >>---------------------------------
          >>--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
          >>jasonjamesmorgan
          >><no_reply@y...> wrote:
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>>Hello, hello,
          >>>
          >>>Put two glasses of water side by side, and the
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>temperatures even
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>>out. This is called resonance. If you want to
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>defute transmition,
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>>go to the local university, and prove the world
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>wrong.
          >>
          >>The Self is of nothing in this world. The laws of
          >>physics do not apply, facile similes notwithstanding.
          >>
          >>Everyone is the Self. Nobody is "more" the Self,
          >>despite what superstitious folk want to believe
          >>about their gurus.
          >>
          >>The guru isn't there to zap you with shakti. That's
          >>a myth some gurus use to make themselves popular.
          >>
          >>What a 'dispeller of darkness' does is illuminate
          >>the thoughts of his/her devotees by pointing out
          >>the Self in their awareness. It's not something
          >>you catch vibrationally, it's something that's
          >>suddenly apparent when it wasn't before. The guru
          >>can make the connection for you, but you've got to
          >>see it alone, completely outside any mythological
          >>beliefs anyone has about gurus.
          >>
          >>
          >>
        • jodyrrr
          ... But the obviousness of duality does not include the reality of the magical nonsense which exists in spiritual culture, the nonsense you are taking for
          Message 4 of 22 , May 4, 2005
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, jasonjamesmorgan
            <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            >
            > >
            > > The Self is of nothing in this world. The laws of
            > > physics do not apply, facile similes notwithstanding.
            > >
            > > Everyone is the Self. Nobody is "more" the Self,
            > > despite what superstitious folk want to believe
            > > about their gurus.
            > >
            > > The guru isn't there to zap you with shakti. That's
            > > a myth some gurus use to make themselves popular.
            > >
            > > What a 'dispeller of darkness' does is illuminate
            > > the thoughts of his/her devotees by pointing out
            > > the Self in their awareness. It's not something
            > > you catch vibrationally, it's something that's
            > > suddenly apparent when it wasn't before. The guru
            > > can make the connection for you, but you've got to
            > > see it alone, completely outside any mythological
            > > beliefs anyone has about gurus.
            >
            > Well, well,
            >
            > Your a bit father off than I originally thought. I see you are still
            > doing your sadhana to the end of savikalpa samadhi. For if you were
            > realized, you would know that duality is obvious and apparent and
            > GOD. You have not realized, as you denie one side of the coin.

            But the obviousness of duality does not include the reality
            of the magical nonsense which exists in spiritual culture,
            the nonsense you are taking for fact. The nonsense which
            chokes the life out of realization like algae in a pond.

            > A person can send prana to wherever, whenever they choose.

            Sure, as a intellectual conceit or in a dream.

            > So sad, so close, but to stubborn in his sadhana to drop the concept
            > of no concepts.

            The same is said of you, unable to see the truth that sits
            on the end of your nose.

            > I grow bored of this. Maybe I will be back next year. My compassion
            > might bring forth a thought or two for you. Ta Ta.
            >
            > Namaste
            > Om Namah Shivaya

            How generous. Don't let the door hit you in
            the ass.
          • Jeff Belyea
            ... Yes, we can. When the enquiry comes from a place of despair, degradation, shame and guilt, and the hope is for release from their grip, neither purity nor
            Message 5 of 22 , May 5, 2005
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              > Can we be both sincere and
              > indefatigable in our enquiry
              > without hope of status and
              > attainment?

              Yes, we can. When the enquiry
              comes from a place of despair,
              degradation, shame and guilt,
              and the hope is for release
              from their grip, neither purity
              nor status nor attainment are
              the foci - unless you are
              going to quibble that attainment
              of peace of mind is to be
              counted among "attainments".
              It is gift. The fact that
              IT grants purity does not
              count, either. The POM and
              purity are totally Jackerjacks'
              surprises. (Just a little
              anticipatory fencing
              before the touche).

              The awakening in this context
              is a startling and unexpected
              helping of jimmies, a cherry
              on top, a...lot of sweetness,
              and frequently gives birth to
              a Bhakti Yogi - a gratitude
              attitude for the double scoop.

              The fact that reports of
              this unique solution are
              often couched in spiritual
              terms may be the result of
              a family tradition or a
              cultural prime coat.

              Some will hear the reports
              of spiritual enlightenment
              as ego aggrandizement and
              attempts to attain status
              or imply some attainment
              of a lofty estate. But the
              Bhakti Yogi has no such
              interests.

              To those, like Jodi, for
              whom it was more of an
              "Oh, yeah, now I see it,"
              and life goes on, there
              are typically no jimmies,
              no cherries, but a sweetness
              nevertheless. Even Greg
              uses the words "sweetness
              and light" in his report.

              (Sorry, Michael.)

              Sweet as ever,

              Jeff
            • Greg Goode
              ... ===These are good points. Sincerely and singlemindedly trying to end one s suffering is not the same as going for the status of having attained a goal.
              Message 6 of 22 , May 5, 2005
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                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
                <jeff@m...> wrote:
                > > Can we be both sincere and
                > > indefatigable in our enquiry
                > > without hope of status and
                > > attainment?
                >
                > Yes, we can. When the enquiry
                > comes from a place of despair,
                > degradation, shame and guilt,
                > and the hope is for release
                > from their grip, neither purity
                > nor status nor attainment are
                > the foci.

                ...

                > Even Greg uses the words "sweetness
                > and light" in his report.

                ===These are good points. Sincerely and singlemindedly trying to end
                one's suffering is not the same as going for the status of having
                attained a goal. When in the middle of great suffering, a person
                would gladly trade all chances of lofty attainment for the relief
                from suffering.

                I remember one AIDS activist mentioning that he visited some AIDS
                patients in the hospital. They said something that really made an
                impression on him. They told him that sure, they remembered the
                feverishly strong sexual compulsion they felt when they had sex all
                those times - unprotected. There's a sort of divine madness that
                takes over, seems like it will protect you. Now, they are
                experiencing the aftermath. They all told the activist that they'd
                gladly give away the sexual experiences they had, plus all hope of
                *ever* having sex again, if they could only be free of the virus now.

                In my case, I was intensely looking into the essence of my nature.
                What made me ME? What makes anyone what they are, and not something
                else? Where is my identity located? How is it carried? How is it
                *my* identity? Although this was not a painful inquiry, it was a
                constant one - yes, and it had a touch of sweet, light fascination.
                I was really in the grips of it. My head was in the tiger's mouth.
                I hadn't heard of any satsangs or spiritual groups doing this kind of
                stuff. There was no association in my mind of a level, status or
                endpoint to be reached. Because I had no acquaintances doing this
                kind of thing, I really didn't have a socially constructed notion of
                a kind of person to compare myself to, or "an after it is over." I
                was doing it in kind of an open and unknowing way.

                --Greg

                P.S. Plus, meditation helped!
              • jodyrrr
                ... wrote: [snip] ... Actually, the seeing of it was accompanied by the simultaneous dissolving of the idea of me as Ramakrishna terms it.
                Message 7 of 22 , May 5, 2005
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                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
                  <jeff@m...> wrote:

                  [snip]

                  > To those, like Jodi, for
                  > whom it was more of an
                  > "Oh, yeah, now I see it,"
                  > and life goes on, there
                  > are typically no jimmies,
                  > no cherries, but a sweetness
                  > nevertheless. Even Greg
                  > uses the words "sweetness
                  > and light" in his report.
                  >
                  > (Sorry, Michael.)
                  >
                  > Sweet as ever,
                  >
                  > Jeff

                  Actually, the "seeing" of "it" was accompanied
                  by the simultaneous dissolving of the "idea of
                  me" as Ramakrishna terms it. Watching that me
                  dissolve was almost a shock, but it happened so
                  quickly that there wasn't time for a reaction.

                  This isn't to say I don't have a sense of "me,"
                  just that its hold on identity was shattered, and
                  has remained so ever since.

                  I have to admit a sweetness as the result of this,
                  although I'm still the same firey asshole I was
                  before it all went down.

                  --jody.
                • Greg Goode
                  ... ===Yeah, that s just it. Even aging, the deaths of parents, friends, terminal illnesses, my wife going to federal detention for an indeterminate period,
                  Message 8 of 22 , May 5, 2005
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                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                    <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:


                    > I have to admit a sweetness as the result of this,
                    > although I'm still the same firey asshole I was
                    > before it all went down.

                    ===Yeah, that's just it. Even aging, the deaths of parents, friends,
                    terminal illnesses, my wife going to federal detention for an
                    indeterminate period, not enough cash for her bail (no bail bonds
                    accepted for immigration stuff), $1200 phone bills, bleeding
                    rollerblading accidents, bike accidents, sprains -- all this isn't
                    separate from sweetness, space and light.

                    --Greg
                  • de la rouviere
                    Dear Jeff, May I come in here with some kind of observation. ... comes from a place of despair, degradation, shame and guilt, and the hope is for release from
                    Message 9 of 22 , May 6, 2005
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                      Dear Jeff,
                       
                      May I come in here with some kind of observation.
                       
                      You said:
                       
                       >>Yes, we can. When the enquiry
                      comes from a place of despair,
                      degradation, shame and guilt,
                      and the hope is for release
                      from their grip,>> snip..
                       
                      Could it also be that this kind of suffering-based enquiry could have two rather distinct motivations: 1) the suffering coming from the things you pointed out above, and 2) when this kind of gross suffering has worked itself gradually out of the system there remains the pure suffering of duality in its most delicate form yet to be transcended? 
                       
                      I guess what I am suggesting is that there is the totally untrimmed tree to start with and all that is evident are forms of emotional, psychological and mental disturbances.  These no doubt form the bulk of the conscious experience of separation at that level of disorganization.  However, there comes a time along the path of self-enquiry where these things no longer distract the practitioner so heavily from inner silence and some sense of freedom from conditioning and shadow emotional stuff.  This in itself brings a lightness of being, but there is still the residual state of duality present, which could easily again be drawn into mere reactivity and mental distortion.  Yet, at this stage, one is no longer driven by the gross suffering of personal historical stuff.  What is on the table is just the mere sense of duality.  It seems to me that only when this has been recognized as suffering and ways have been found to transcend this fundamental inclination towards mere separateness, can the freedom of which you may be speaking reveal itself.
                       
                      Or perhaps we may be talking about different experiences altogether?.  It is really difficult to apprehend the very many manifestations of freedom from where people nowadays speak.  So many claim freedom and enlightement.  I often find it difficult to fully appreciate where they are coming from. In the olden days, and as tradition has it, practioners in the Zen tradition actually often left their teachers, or were sent away to other teachers to have the different levels of their 'enlightenment' verified, disputed, worked on etc. lest the student fools h/herself into truly believing they are fully enlightened while perhaps the finer points might still be missing.  As yet, we have no such kind of 'peer review' in the west relative to our enlightening experiences. So we all seem just have our own relative light to stand or fall by.  This may of course create some serious confusion for many  - and a ready breeding ground for illusion?
                       
                      Have a good weekend,
                      Moller de la Rouviere
                       
                       
                    • Jeff Belyea
                      ... have two rather distinct motivations: 1) the suffering coming from the things you pointed out above, and 2) when this kind of gross suffering has worked
                      Message 10 of 22 , May 6, 2005
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                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "de la rouviere"
                        <mollerdlr@t...> wrote:
                        > Dear Jeff,
                        >
                        > May I come in here with some kind of observation.
                        >
                        > You said:
                        >
                        > >>Yes, we can. When the enquiry
                        > comes from a place of despair,
                        > degradation, shame and guilt,
                        > and the hope is for release
                        > from their grip,>> snip..
                        >
                        > Could it also be that this kind of suffering-based enquiry could
                        have two rather distinct motivations: 1) the suffering coming from
                        the things you pointed out above, and 2) when this kind of gross
                        suffering has worked itself gradually out of the system there remains
                        the pure suffering of duality in its most delicate form yet to be
                        transcended?
                        >
                        > I guess what I am suggesting is that there is the totally untrimmed
                        tree to start with and all that is evident are forms of emotional,
                        psychological and mental disturbances. These no doubt form the bulk
                        of the conscious experience of separation at that level of
                        disorganization. However, there comes a time along the path of self-
                        enquiry where these things no longer distract the practitioner so
                        heavily from inner silence and some sense of freedom from
                        conditioning and shadow emotional stuff. This in itself brings a
                        lightness of being, but there is still the residual state of duality
                        present, which could easily again be drawn into mere reactivity and
                        mental distortion. Yet, at this stage, one is no longer driven by
                        the gross suffering of personal historical stuff. What is on the
                        table is just the mere sense of duality. It seems to me that only
                        when this has been recognized as suffering and ways have been found
                        to transcend this fundamental inclination towards mere separateness,
                        can the freedom of which you may be speaking reveal itself.
                        >
                        > Or perhaps we may be talking about different experiences
                        altogether?. It is really difficult to apprehend the very many
                        manifestations of freedom from where people nowadays speak. So many
                        claim freedom and enlightement. I often find it difficult to fully
                        appreciate where they are coming from. In the olden days, and as
                        tradition has it, practioners in the Zen tradition actually often
                        left their teachers, or were sent away to other teachers to have the
                        different levels of their 'enlightenment' verified, disputed, worked
                        on etc. lest the student fools h/herself into truly believing they
                        are fully enlightened while perhaps the finer points might still be
                        missing. As yet, we have no such kind of 'peer review' in the west
                        relative to our enlightening experiences. So we all seem just have
                        our own relative light to stand or fall by. This may of course
                        create some serious confusion for many - and a ready breeding ground
                        for illusion?
                        >
                        > Have a good weekend,
                        > Moller de la Rouviere
                        > www.spiritualhumanism.co.za

                        Thank you, Moller.

                        Of course, we can only
                        speak authentically
                        from our own direct
                        experience. And, yes,
                        this is a difficult
                        task - to communicate
                        our personal experience
                        clearly and completely.

                        The gradual working out
                        of the issues that were
                        the root causes of
                        suffering, either through
                        the grace of time or
                        with the help of a
                        therapeutic approach
                        is distinctly different
                        from the experience of
                        Enlightened Awakening, a
                        "stepping into perfection"
                        in which the startling
                        realization of "all is well"
                        presents itself, as if
                        beyond anything the mind
                        has previously thought
                        or imagined.

                        The latter mends the
                        illusion of separation
                        and sense of duality, and
                        leaves a residual sweetness
                        as an undercurrent of
                        day-to-day consciousness
                        (as Jody and Greg have
                        noted in recent posts)
                        that is above any and all
                        circumstances of life
                        events.

                        So many models attempt
                        to distinguish between
                        the therapeutic recovery
                        and the Enlightened, more
                        dramatic resolution of
                        suffering. And even these
                        have subsets. The savikalpa
                        and nirvikalpa, and then
                        sahaj samadhi, come to
                        mind.

                        The easing of suffering
                        through time erasure of
                        the sting, the temporary
                        Enlightenment of savikalpa
                        samadhi, and the seemingly
                        permanent shift of awareness
                        and Awakening to the
                        "Ture Self" of nirvikalpa
                        samadhi are neat distinctions,
                        but as you've written,
                        can cause a lot of confusion
                        and maybe even delusion.

                        Additionally, those who
                        feel compelled, or as
                        Bruce Morgen writes, are
                        "choicelessly obligated"
                        to share the good news
                        of Enlightenment, seem
                        to innocenlty over-promise
                        the availability of this
                        New Wisdom, Understanding,
                        Experiential Knowledge.

                        The Big Guys of Gurudom,
                        and the relatively unknown
                        Awakened Teachers, seem
                        to all offer a model or
                        point to a path that they
                        walked, with the expectation
                        that a similar walk will
                        produce a similar result.

                        As Bruce and Jeff Brooks
                        have written; if this
                        were so, we would have
                        millions instead of
                        hundreds of Awakened
                        Ones, Buddhas, Christs,
                        Krisnas, on earth now.

                        As for the much-hunted
                        deluded gurus, it seems
                        that this is a much-overblown
                        hunt. It is unimaginable
                        that anyone would step up
                        to the role without the
                        experiential knowledge -
                        for some power trip or
                        monetary reward. That
                        hunt is left for others.

                        Those who fire verbal
                        bombast at any talk or
                        writing of Enlightenment
                        are the more discouraging
                        and disparaging game in
                        my crosshairs.

                        Peace,

                        Jeff
                      • Jeff Belyea
                        ... Hi Jody - Thanks. The dissolving of the idea of me is one of those subtle and difficult to describe aspects of Awakening that has the rational mind hear
                        Message 11 of 22 , May 9, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                          <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
                          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
                          > <jeff@m...> wrote:
                          >
                          > [snip]
                          >
                          > > To those, like Jody, for
                          > > whom it was more of an
                          > > "Oh, yeah, now I see it,"
                          > > and life goes on, there
                          > > are typically no jimmies,
                          > > no cherries, but a sweetness
                          > > nevertheless. Even Greg
                          > > uses the words "sweetness
                          > > and light" in his report.
                          > >
                          > > (Sorry, Michael.)
                          > >
                          > > Sweet as ever,
                          > >
                          > > Jeff
                          >
                          > Actually, the "seeing" of "it" was accompanied
                          > by the simultaneous dissolving of the "idea of
                          > me" as Ramakrishna terms it. Watching that me
                          > dissolve was almost a shock, but it happened so
                          > quickly that there wasn't time for a reaction.
                          >
                          > This isn't to say I don't have a sense of "me,"
                          > just that its hold on identity was shattered, and
                          > has remained so ever since.
                          >
                          > I have to admit a sweetness as the result of this,
                          > although I'm still the same firey asshole I was
                          > before it all went down.
                          >
                          > --jody.


                          Hi Jody -

                          Thanks.

                          The dissolving of the "idea
                          of me" is one of those subtle
                          and difficult to describe
                          aspects of Awakening that
                          has the rational mind hear
                          a metal-pipe clang.

                          That shift out of the personal
                          sense of "ego" to just "being"
                          brings the sweet relief from
                          taking anything personally, and
                          it not only allows for continuity
                          of the fiery asshole persona...
                          it transforms one predisposed
                          to being a fiery asshole
                          into a fearless fiery asshole;
                          taming the lions of fear and
                          doubt and replacing those with
                          a hot and sweet pepper undercurrent.

                          Love, as always,

                          Jeff
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