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RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: TRANSMISSION

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  • Greg Goode
    Hey Bruceji, That s a cool one, YAPBC. I just might use it, with full attribution, of course! --Greg
    Message 1 of 22 , May 3, 2005
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      Hey Bruceji,

       

      That’s a cool one, YAPBC.

      I just might use it, with full

      attribution, of course!

       

      --Greg

    • jasonjamesmorgan
      ... Well, well, Your a bit father off than I originally thought. I see you are still doing your sadhana to the end of savikalpa samadhi. For if you were
      Message 2 of 22 , May 3, 2005
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        >
        > The Self is of nothing in this world. The laws of
        > physics do not apply, facile similes notwithstanding.
        >
        > Everyone is the Self. Nobody is "more" the Self,
        > despite what superstitious folk want to believe
        > about their gurus.
        >
        > The guru isn't there to zap you with shakti. That's
        > a myth some gurus use to make themselves popular.
        >
        > What a 'dispeller of darkness' does is illuminate
        > the thoughts of his/her devotees by pointing out
        > the Self in their awareness. It's not something
        > you catch vibrationally, it's something that's
        > suddenly apparent when it wasn't before. The guru
        > can make the connection for you, but you've got to
        > see it alone, completely outside any mythological
        > beliefs anyone has about gurus.

        Well, well,

        Your a bit father off than I originally thought. I see you are still
        doing your sadhana to the end of savikalpa samadhi. For if you were
        realized, you would know that duality is obvious and apparent and
        GOD. You have not realized, as you denie one side of the coin.

        A person can send prana to wherever, whenever they choose.

        So sad, so close, but to stubborn in his sadhana to drop the concept
        of no concepts.

        I grow bored of this. Maybe I will be back next year. My compassion
        might bring forth a thought or two for you. Ta Ta.

        Namaste
        Om Namah Shivaya
      • Reynold Wingate
        Can you please rephrase the last two paragraphs? I have read somewhere that when high-sounding words are abundant in writing, that s a sign the writer is not
        Message 3 of 22 , May 3, 2005
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          Can you please rephrase the last two paragraphs? I
          have read somewhere that when high-sounding words are
          abundant in writing, that's a sign the writer is not
          very sure of what he is talking about. Good writing on
          spirituality should be simple and easy to understand.
          I am lost in the last two paragraphs you wrote. Sorry!

          Reynold
          --- Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:

          ---------------------------------
          Reynold Wingate wrote:

          >Jiddu Krishnamoorthy used to dissuade those who
          wanted
          >to become disciples.
          >
          Well, he tried to do it --
          unfortunately, after he
          died he became the nexus
          of YAPBC (Yet Another
          Posthumous Bhakti Cult).

          >He believed the spiritual path o
          >each individual is different.
          >
          That's a fact, no belief
          is required.

          >A guru can only give
          >general tips to grow spiritually based on his own
          >personal experience.
          >
          Yes, just as pointing at
          the moon isn't that same
          as being able to grab it
          and hand it over. ;-)

          >It may not necessarily work for
          >his disciples.
          >
          >
          Clearly, otherwise such
          "disciples" would themselves
          uniformly be realized.
          There's obviously no
          universal recipe for that.

          >I believe a guru is not an absolute necessity for
          >spiritual growth. If you have the desire deep in you,
          >you will stumble into the truth some day.
          >
          >
          As Jodyji himself has put it,
          the only actual prerequisite
          is sincerity. This brings
          energy and determination --
          but also an awareness that
          "the desire deep within you"
          may in fact be nothing more
          or other than garden variety
          ambition, abeit clothed in
          "spear-chill" raiment!

          Can we be both sincere and
          indefatigable in our enquiry
          without hope of status and
          attainment? Isn't that the
          subtly elusive "purity" that
          is so often spoken of among
          seekers, the surrendered
          attitude expressed by "Not
          my will, but thine" and the
          very essence of both honest
          enquiry and authentic
          meditation?


          >--- jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
          >
          >---------------------------------
          >--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
          >jasonjamesmorgan
          ><no_reply@y...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >>Hello, hello,
          >>
          >>Put two glasses of water side by side, and the
          >>
          >>
          >temperatures even
          >
          >
          >>out. This is called resonance. If you want to
          >>
          >>
          >defute transmition,
          >
          >
          >>go to the local university, and prove the world
          >>
          >>
          >wrong.
          >
          >The Self is of nothing in this world. The laws of
          >physics do not apply, facile similes notwithstanding.
          >
          >Everyone is the Self. Nobody is "more" the Self,
          >despite what superstitious folk want to believe
          >about their gurus.
          >
          >The guru isn't there to zap you with shakti. That's
          >a myth some gurus use to make themselves popular.
          >
          >What a 'dispeller of darkness' does is illuminate
          >the thoughts of his/her devotees by pointing out
          >the Self in their awareness. It's not something
          >you catch vibrationally, it's something that's
          >suddenly apparent when it wasn't before. The guru
          >can make the connection for you, but you've got to
          >see it alone, completely outside any mythological
          >beliefs anyone has about gurus.
          >
          >



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        • Bruce Morgen
          ... I could, but with all due respect, I ll decline that request at his time. ... An absurd contention imo, especially given that there is no consensus on what
          Message 4 of 22 , May 4, 2005
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            Reynold Wingate wrote:

            >Can you please rephrase the last two paragraphs?
            >
            I could, but with all due
            respect, I'll decline that
            request at his time.

            >I
            >have read somewhere that when high-sounding words are
            >abundant in writing, that's a sign the writer is not
            >very sure of what he is talking about.
            >
            An absurd contention imo,
            especially given that
            there is no consensus on
            what "high-sounding"
            means.

            >Good writing on
            >spirituality should be simple and easy to understand.
            >
            >
            Well, that certainly puts
            a good deal of what the
            ancients wrote out of the
            running, doesn't it?

            >I am lost in the last two paragraphs you wrote. Sorry!
            >
            >
            Me too -- but there it is.
            Are you sure you're not
            being a bit lazy in your
            approach? I can see only
            one or two words in those
            paragraphs that are all
            that uncommon, and the
            sentences parse pretty
            easily. The gists of both
            are quite simple and I'd be
            glad to discuss whatever
            specifics are eluding you.

            Thank you for your interest!

            >Reynold
            >--- Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:
            >
            >---------------------------------
            >Reynold Wingate wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            >>Jiddu Krishnamoorthy used to dissuade those who
            >>
            >>
            >wanted
            >
            >
            >>to become disciples.
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >Well, he tried to do it --
            >unfortunately, after he
            >died he became the nexus
            >of YAPBC (Yet Another
            >Posthumous Bhakti Cult).
            >
            >
            >
            >>He believed the spiritual path o
            >>each individual is different.
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >That's a fact, no belief
            >is required.
            >
            >
            >
            >>A guru can only give
            >>general tips to grow spiritually based on his own
            >>personal experience.
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >Yes, just as pointing at
            >the moon isn't that same
            >as being able to grab it
            >and hand it over. ;-)
            >
            >
            >
            >>It may not necessarily work for
            >>his disciples.
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >Clearly, otherwise such
            >"disciples" would themselves
            >uniformly be realized.
            >There's obviously no
            >universal recipe for that.
            >
            >
            >
            >>I believe a guru is not an absolute necessity for
            >>spiritual growth. If you have the desire deep in you,
            >>you will stumble into the truth some day.
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >As Jodyji himself has put it,
            >the only actual prerequisite
            >is sincerity. This brings
            >energy and determination --
            >but also an awareness that
            >"the desire deep within you"
            >may in fact be nothing more
            >or other than garden variety
            >ambition, abeit clothed in
            >"spear-chill" raiment!
            >
            >Can we be both sincere and
            >indefatigable in our enquiry
            >without hope of status and
            >attainment? Isn't that the
            >subtly elusive "purity" that
            >is so often spoken of among
            >seekers, the surrendered
            >attitude expressed by "Not
            >my will, but thine" and the
            >very essence of both honest
            >enquiry and authentic
            >meditation?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >>--- jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
            >>
            >>---------------------------------
            >>--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
            >>jasonjamesmorgan
            >><no_reply@y...> wrote:
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>>Hello, hello,
            >>>
            >>>Put two glasses of water side by side, and the
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>temperatures even
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>>out. This is called resonance. If you want to
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>defute transmition,
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>>go to the local university, and prove the world
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>wrong.
            >>
            >>The Self is of nothing in this world. The laws of
            >>physics do not apply, facile similes notwithstanding.
            >>
            >>Everyone is the Self. Nobody is "more" the Self,
            >>despite what superstitious folk want to believe
            >>about their gurus.
            >>
            >>The guru isn't there to zap you with shakti. That's
            >>a myth some gurus use to make themselves popular.
            >>
            >>What a 'dispeller of darkness' does is illuminate
            >>the thoughts of his/her devotees by pointing out
            >>the Self in their awareness. It's not something
            >>you catch vibrationally, it's something that's
            >>suddenly apparent when it wasn't before. The guru
            >>can make the connection for you, but you've got to
            >>see it alone, completely outside any mythological
            >>beliefs anyone has about gurus.
            >>
            >>
            >>
          • jodyrrr
            ... But the obviousness of duality does not include the reality of the magical nonsense which exists in spiritual culture, the nonsense you are taking for
            Message 5 of 22 , May 4, 2005
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              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, jasonjamesmorgan
              <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              > > The Self is of nothing in this world. The laws of
              > > physics do not apply, facile similes notwithstanding.
              > >
              > > Everyone is the Self. Nobody is "more" the Self,
              > > despite what superstitious folk want to believe
              > > about their gurus.
              > >
              > > The guru isn't there to zap you with shakti. That's
              > > a myth some gurus use to make themselves popular.
              > >
              > > What a 'dispeller of darkness' does is illuminate
              > > the thoughts of his/her devotees by pointing out
              > > the Self in their awareness. It's not something
              > > you catch vibrationally, it's something that's
              > > suddenly apparent when it wasn't before. The guru
              > > can make the connection for you, but you've got to
              > > see it alone, completely outside any mythological
              > > beliefs anyone has about gurus.
              >
              > Well, well,
              >
              > Your a bit father off than I originally thought. I see you are still
              > doing your sadhana to the end of savikalpa samadhi. For if you were
              > realized, you would know that duality is obvious and apparent and
              > GOD. You have not realized, as you denie one side of the coin.

              But the obviousness of duality does not include the reality
              of the magical nonsense which exists in spiritual culture,
              the nonsense you are taking for fact. The nonsense which
              chokes the life out of realization like algae in a pond.

              > A person can send prana to wherever, whenever they choose.

              Sure, as a intellectual conceit or in a dream.

              > So sad, so close, but to stubborn in his sadhana to drop the concept
              > of no concepts.

              The same is said of you, unable to see the truth that sits
              on the end of your nose.

              > I grow bored of this. Maybe I will be back next year. My compassion
              > might bring forth a thought or two for you. Ta Ta.
              >
              > Namaste
              > Om Namah Shivaya

              How generous. Don't let the door hit you in
              the ass.
            • Jeff Belyea
              ... Yes, we can. When the enquiry comes from a place of despair, degradation, shame and guilt, and the hope is for release from their grip, neither purity nor
              Message 6 of 22 , May 5, 2005
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                > Can we be both sincere and
                > indefatigable in our enquiry
                > without hope of status and
                > attainment?

                Yes, we can. When the enquiry
                comes from a place of despair,
                degradation, shame and guilt,
                and the hope is for release
                from their grip, neither purity
                nor status nor attainment are
                the foci - unless you are
                going to quibble that attainment
                of peace of mind is to be
                counted among "attainments".
                It is gift. The fact that
                IT grants purity does not
                count, either. The POM and
                purity are totally Jackerjacks'
                surprises. (Just a little
                anticipatory fencing
                before the touche).

                The awakening in this context
                is a startling and unexpected
                helping of jimmies, a cherry
                on top, a...lot of sweetness,
                and frequently gives birth to
                a Bhakti Yogi - a gratitude
                attitude for the double scoop.

                The fact that reports of
                this unique solution are
                often couched in spiritual
                terms may be the result of
                a family tradition or a
                cultural prime coat.

                Some will hear the reports
                of spiritual enlightenment
                as ego aggrandizement and
                attempts to attain status
                or imply some attainment
                of a lofty estate. But the
                Bhakti Yogi has no such
                interests.

                To those, like Jodi, for
                whom it was more of an
                "Oh, yeah, now I see it,"
                and life goes on, there
                are typically no jimmies,
                no cherries, but a sweetness
                nevertheless. Even Greg
                uses the words "sweetness
                and light" in his report.

                (Sorry, Michael.)

                Sweet as ever,

                Jeff
              • Greg Goode
                ... ===These are good points. Sincerely and singlemindedly trying to end one s suffering is not the same as going for the status of having attained a goal.
                Message 7 of 22 , May 5, 2005
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                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
                  <jeff@m...> wrote:
                  > > Can we be both sincere and
                  > > indefatigable in our enquiry
                  > > without hope of status and
                  > > attainment?
                  >
                  > Yes, we can. When the enquiry
                  > comes from a place of despair,
                  > degradation, shame and guilt,
                  > and the hope is for release
                  > from their grip, neither purity
                  > nor status nor attainment are
                  > the foci.

                  ...

                  > Even Greg uses the words "sweetness
                  > and light" in his report.

                  ===These are good points. Sincerely and singlemindedly trying to end
                  one's suffering is not the same as going for the status of having
                  attained a goal. When in the middle of great suffering, a person
                  would gladly trade all chances of lofty attainment for the relief
                  from suffering.

                  I remember one AIDS activist mentioning that he visited some AIDS
                  patients in the hospital. They said something that really made an
                  impression on him. They told him that sure, they remembered the
                  feverishly strong sexual compulsion they felt when they had sex all
                  those times - unprotected. There's a sort of divine madness that
                  takes over, seems like it will protect you. Now, they are
                  experiencing the aftermath. They all told the activist that they'd
                  gladly give away the sexual experiences they had, plus all hope of
                  *ever* having sex again, if they could only be free of the virus now.

                  In my case, I was intensely looking into the essence of my nature.
                  What made me ME? What makes anyone what they are, and not something
                  else? Where is my identity located? How is it carried? How is it
                  *my* identity? Although this was not a painful inquiry, it was a
                  constant one - yes, and it had a touch of sweet, light fascination.
                  I was really in the grips of it. My head was in the tiger's mouth.
                  I hadn't heard of any satsangs or spiritual groups doing this kind of
                  stuff. There was no association in my mind of a level, status or
                  endpoint to be reached. Because I had no acquaintances doing this
                  kind of thing, I really didn't have a socially constructed notion of
                  a kind of person to compare myself to, or "an after it is over." I
                  was doing it in kind of an open and unknowing way.

                  --Greg

                  P.S. Plus, meditation helped!
                • jodyrrr
                  ... wrote: [snip] ... Actually, the seeing of it was accompanied by the simultaneous dissolving of the idea of me as Ramakrishna terms it.
                  Message 8 of 22 , May 5, 2005
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                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
                    <jeff@m...> wrote:

                    [snip]

                    > To those, like Jodi, for
                    > whom it was more of an
                    > "Oh, yeah, now I see it,"
                    > and life goes on, there
                    > are typically no jimmies,
                    > no cherries, but a sweetness
                    > nevertheless. Even Greg
                    > uses the words "sweetness
                    > and light" in his report.
                    >
                    > (Sorry, Michael.)
                    >
                    > Sweet as ever,
                    >
                    > Jeff

                    Actually, the "seeing" of "it" was accompanied
                    by the simultaneous dissolving of the "idea of
                    me" as Ramakrishna terms it. Watching that me
                    dissolve was almost a shock, but it happened so
                    quickly that there wasn't time for a reaction.

                    This isn't to say I don't have a sense of "me,"
                    just that its hold on identity was shattered, and
                    has remained so ever since.

                    I have to admit a sweetness as the result of this,
                    although I'm still the same firey asshole I was
                    before it all went down.

                    --jody.
                  • Greg Goode
                    ... ===Yeah, that s just it. Even aging, the deaths of parents, friends, terminal illnesses, my wife going to federal detention for an indeterminate period,
                    Message 9 of 22 , May 5, 2005
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                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                      <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:


                      > I have to admit a sweetness as the result of this,
                      > although I'm still the same firey asshole I was
                      > before it all went down.

                      ===Yeah, that's just it. Even aging, the deaths of parents, friends,
                      terminal illnesses, my wife going to federal detention for an
                      indeterminate period, not enough cash for her bail (no bail bonds
                      accepted for immigration stuff), $1200 phone bills, bleeding
                      rollerblading accidents, bike accidents, sprains -- all this isn't
                      separate from sweetness, space and light.

                      --Greg
                    • de la rouviere
                      Dear Jeff, May I come in here with some kind of observation. ... comes from a place of despair, degradation, shame and guilt, and the hope is for release from
                      Message 10 of 22 , May 6, 2005
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                        Dear Jeff,
                         
                        May I come in here with some kind of observation.
                         
                        You said:
                         
                         >>Yes, we can. When the enquiry
                        comes from a place of despair,
                        degradation, shame and guilt,
                        and the hope is for release
                        from their grip,>> snip..
                         
                        Could it also be that this kind of suffering-based enquiry could have two rather distinct motivations: 1) the suffering coming from the things you pointed out above, and 2) when this kind of gross suffering has worked itself gradually out of the system there remains the pure suffering of duality in its most delicate form yet to be transcended? 
                         
                        I guess what I am suggesting is that there is the totally untrimmed tree to start with and all that is evident are forms of emotional, psychological and mental disturbances.  These no doubt form the bulk of the conscious experience of separation at that level of disorganization.  However, there comes a time along the path of self-enquiry where these things no longer distract the practitioner so heavily from inner silence and some sense of freedom from conditioning and shadow emotional stuff.  This in itself brings a lightness of being, but there is still the residual state of duality present, which could easily again be drawn into mere reactivity and mental distortion.  Yet, at this stage, one is no longer driven by the gross suffering of personal historical stuff.  What is on the table is just the mere sense of duality.  It seems to me that only when this has been recognized as suffering and ways have been found to transcend this fundamental inclination towards mere separateness, can the freedom of which you may be speaking reveal itself.
                         
                        Or perhaps we may be talking about different experiences altogether?.  It is really difficult to apprehend the very many manifestations of freedom from where people nowadays speak.  So many claim freedom and enlightement.  I often find it difficult to fully appreciate where they are coming from. In the olden days, and as tradition has it, practioners in the Zen tradition actually often left their teachers, or were sent away to other teachers to have the different levels of their 'enlightenment' verified, disputed, worked on etc. lest the student fools h/herself into truly believing they are fully enlightened while perhaps the finer points might still be missing.  As yet, we have no such kind of 'peer review' in the west relative to our enlightening experiences. So we all seem just have our own relative light to stand or fall by.  This may of course create some serious confusion for many  - and a ready breeding ground for illusion?
                         
                        Have a good weekend,
                        Moller de la Rouviere
                         
                         
                      • Jeff Belyea
                        ... have two rather distinct motivations: 1) the suffering coming from the things you pointed out above, and 2) when this kind of gross suffering has worked
                        Message 11 of 22 , May 6, 2005
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                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "de la rouviere"
                          <mollerdlr@t...> wrote:
                          > Dear Jeff,
                          >
                          > May I come in here with some kind of observation.
                          >
                          > You said:
                          >
                          > >>Yes, we can. When the enquiry
                          > comes from a place of despair,
                          > degradation, shame and guilt,
                          > and the hope is for release
                          > from their grip,>> snip..
                          >
                          > Could it also be that this kind of suffering-based enquiry could
                          have two rather distinct motivations: 1) the suffering coming from
                          the things you pointed out above, and 2) when this kind of gross
                          suffering has worked itself gradually out of the system there remains
                          the pure suffering of duality in its most delicate form yet to be
                          transcended?
                          >
                          > I guess what I am suggesting is that there is the totally untrimmed
                          tree to start with and all that is evident are forms of emotional,
                          psychological and mental disturbances. These no doubt form the bulk
                          of the conscious experience of separation at that level of
                          disorganization. However, there comes a time along the path of self-
                          enquiry where these things no longer distract the practitioner so
                          heavily from inner silence and some sense of freedom from
                          conditioning and shadow emotional stuff. This in itself brings a
                          lightness of being, but there is still the residual state of duality
                          present, which could easily again be drawn into mere reactivity and
                          mental distortion. Yet, at this stage, one is no longer driven by
                          the gross suffering of personal historical stuff. What is on the
                          table is just the mere sense of duality. It seems to me that only
                          when this has been recognized as suffering and ways have been found
                          to transcend this fundamental inclination towards mere separateness,
                          can the freedom of which you may be speaking reveal itself.
                          >
                          > Or perhaps we may be talking about different experiences
                          altogether?. It is really difficult to apprehend the very many
                          manifestations of freedom from where people nowadays speak. So many
                          claim freedom and enlightement. I often find it difficult to fully
                          appreciate where they are coming from. In the olden days, and as
                          tradition has it, practioners in the Zen tradition actually often
                          left their teachers, or were sent away to other teachers to have the
                          different levels of their 'enlightenment' verified, disputed, worked
                          on etc. lest the student fools h/herself into truly believing they
                          are fully enlightened while perhaps the finer points might still be
                          missing. As yet, we have no such kind of 'peer review' in the west
                          relative to our enlightening experiences. So we all seem just have
                          our own relative light to stand or fall by. This may of course
                          create some serious confusion for many - and a ready breeding ground
                          for illusion?
                          >
                          > Have a good weekend,
                          > Moller de la Rouviere
                          > www.spiritualhumanism.co.za

                          Thank you, Moller.

                          Of course, we can only
                          speak authentically
                          from our own direct
                          experience. And, yes,
                          this is a difficult
                          task - to communicate
                          our personal experience
                          clearly and completely.

                          The gradual working out
                          of the issues that were
                          the root causes of
                          suffering, either through
                          the grace of time or
                          with the help of a
                          therapeutic approach
                          is distinctly different
                          from the experience of
                          Enlightened Awakening, a
                          "stepping into perfection"
                          in which the startling
                          realization of "all is well"
                          presents itself, as if
                          beyond anything the mind
                          has previously thought
                          or imagined.

                          The latter mends the
                          illusion of separation
                          and sense of duality, and
                          leaves a residual sweetness
                          as an undercurrent of
                          day-to-day consciousness
                          (as Jody and Greg have
                          noted in recent posts)
                          that is above any and all
                          circumstances of life
                          events.

                          So many models attempt
                          to distinguish between
                          the therapeutic recovery
                          and the Enlightened, more
                          dramatic resolution of
                          suffering. And even these
                          have subsets. The savikalpa
                          and nirvikalpa, and then
                          sahaj samadhi, come to
                          mind.

                          The easing of suffering
                          through time erasure of
                          the sting, the temporary
                          Enlightenment of savikalpa
                          samadhi, and the seemingly
                          permanent shift of awareness
                          and Awakening to the
                          "Ture Self" of nirvikalpa
                          samadhi are neat distinctions,
                          but as you've written,
                          can cause a lot of confusion
                          and maybe even delusion.

                          Additionally, those who
                          feel compelled, or as
                          Bruce Morgen writes, are
                          "choicelessly obligated"
                          to share the good news
                          of Enlightenment, seem
                          to innocenlty over-promise
                          the availability of this
                          New Wisdom, Understanding,
                          Experiential Knowledge.

                          The Big Guys of Gurudom,
                          and the relatively unknown
                          Awakened Teachers, seem
                          to all offer a model or
                          point to a path that they
                          walked, with the expectation
                          that a similar walk will
                          produce a similar result.

                          As Bruce and Jeff Brooks
                          have written; if this
                          were so, we would have
                          millions instead of
                          hundreds of Awakened
                          Ones, Buddhas, Christs,
                          Krisnas, on earth now.

                          As for the much-hunted
                          deluded gurus, it seems
                          that this is a much-overblown
                          hunt. It is unimaginable
                          that anyone would step up
                          to the role without the
                          experiential knowledge -
                          for some power trip or
                          monetary reward. That
                          hunt is left for others.

                          Those who fire verbal
                          bombast at any talk or
                          writing of Enlightenment
                          are the more discouraging
                          and disparaging game in
                          my crosshairs.

                          Peace,

                          Jeff
                        • Jeff Belyea
                          ... Hi Jody - Thanks. The dissolving of the idea of me is one of those subtle and difficult to describe aspects of Awakening that has the rational mind hear
                          Message 12 of 22 , May 9, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                            <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
                            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
                            > <jeff@m...> wrote:
                            >
                            > [snip]
                            >
                            > > To those, like Jody, for
                            > > whom it was more of an
                            > > "Oh, yeah, now I see it,"
                            > > and life goes on, there
                            > > are typically no jimmies,
                            > > no cherries, but a sweetness
                            > > nevertheless. Even Greg
                            > > uses the words "sweetness
                            > > and light" in his report.
                            > >
                            > > (Sorry, Michael.)
                            > >
                            > > Sweet as ever,
                            > >
                            > > Jeff
                            >
                            > Actually, the "seeing" of "it" was accompanied
                            > by the simultaneous dissolving of the "idea of
                            > me" as Ramakrishna terms it. Watching that me
                            > dissolve was almost a shock, but it happened so
                            > quickly that there wasn't time for a reaction.
                            >
                            > This isn't to say I don't have a sense of "me,"
                            > just that its hold on identity was shattered, and
                            > has remained so ever since.
                            >
                            > I have to admit a sweetness as the result of this,
                            > although I'm still the same firey asshole I was
                            > before it all went down.
                            >
                            > --jody.


                            Hi Jody -

                            Thanks.

                            The dissolving of the "idea
                            of me" is one of those subtle
                            and difficult to describe
                            aspects of Awakening that
                            has the rational mind hear
                            a metal-pipe clang.

                            That shift out of the personal
                            sense of "ego" to just "being"
                            brings the sweet relief from
                            taking anything personally, and
                            it not only allows for continuity
                            of the fiery asshole persona...
                            it transforms one predisposed
                            to being a fiery asshole
                            into a fearless fiery asshole;
                            taming the lions of fear and
                            doubt and replacing those with
                            a hot and sweet pepper undercurrent.

                            Love, as always,

                            Jeff
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