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Confused answers about the body

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  • lovepeaceyes2000
    My Dear Friend: It is not just an understanding that we are not of the body, but a way of life to realize who we are and where are we from and where are we
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 12, 2005
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      My Dear Friend:
      It is not just an understanding that we are not of the body, but a
      way of life to realize who we are and where are we from and where
      are we going. It is by the energy around us that we can see the
      gift that the Creator has given us. Take for a moment in time
      a `ant's' life. They may only live for a week or so but to the ant
      it is a life time. According to the ant what it sees and experience
      is what it exchanges with its own personality. Now compare our life
      time to the ant and we can see that the ant's life is but a wink of
      your eye. Yet you knowing more through the higher energy given from
      within, knows that – life is not all in according to the ant.
      So liken too, there are many books and teachings that show that we
      are not this body, but let us become real for we both know that this
      is just book knowledge, or mind knowledge. This is not knowledge
      gain from experience. Yet in a small way we have the grace to
      experience one type of body in which we never really for a moment in
      time think of it as a different body experience. But look at your
      dream state? When you are in your dream state, and I am with you in
      this dream state of yours, I reach out and pinch your cheeks and you
      will say ouch, yes? So too, now you are awake and you are reading
      this letter of sharing with you and I am to say standing next to you
      and I pinch you once again, you will once again say to me ouch,
      yes? My question to you is which body are you in right now the
      dream state or the wake state? For in both remember you said ouch
      to my pinching… And in each state you felt like it was real. Which
      one are we in? Buy taking this first step one now begin in the life
      experience of finding out who we are, what we are. Finally to make
      a long story short, meditation is a vortex to another time and space
      within you. Yet remember that once you experience the Oneness there
      is no time or space, really. Everything you need and want is inside
      of you. This is the gift of freedom of will. The ability to create
      that which you are in the fullest. Remember, that liken to the
      hammer of the carpenter's, so the body too, is a tool for the soul
      or the spirit, or the real you, who you think you are. You see I
      may think of you as the person you are, and you know the person who
      you are, but there is still a deeper person of what you are. It is
      this person that we are all to become one day through the grace of
      the energy within and about us… that ture person of ourself...

      Somewhere, in our life we have heard the words – `The truth will set
      you free'. But as you grow deeper in qigong or the practice that
      one personally does with spirit life, we begin to hear or learn of
      the words – `Love of the Energy (force) Sets you free.' Well this
      is what this training is about learning to be free as our Creator
      wished us to be. We grow up watching various religious groups
      battle each other in the name of God, each claiming the Energy as
      its sole right, and we wonder what kind of God there must be out
      there who allows all this to happen. Surely, you understand what I
      am saying here, right? Well the understanding lies deeper with the
      understanding of the Energy and the way the energy flows. It is
      true that the Energy does love you. But this concept was not
      properly understood by all the philosophers who wrote the holy
      books, and that caused confusion. This love that the energy has for
      you is not an emotional love that, say, your uncle has for you or
      you for your mother or father. This love that the energy loves you
      comes from the teaching that the energy loves itself. Therefore,
      because it is in you, the energy loves you, and the way to enhance
      that love is to love yourself. By doing so, you consciously
      concentrate on the Energy, and this will make the energy expand
      within you. This is not an egocentric, narcissistic love, but a
      love that comes from respecting all living things, and the greatest
      living thing under your immediate control is your own self.

      Does this mean that you should not love others or go out of your way
      to help them? No! It means that you have to recognize yourself as
      part and parcel of God. Therefore you are the God our Creator
      wanted us to be, as the infinite life force. One must learn to
      express this concept as strongly and as possibly as you can.
      Remember, through acts of kindness, we practice magnanimity, and the
      recipients feel that there is a power for good beyond their misery,
      but that is all one is going to feel. Remember, that these actions
      rise and fall outside of the energy's immediate perceptions;
      therefore one does not really expand an individual's expression.
      Good works deals with external physical illusion rather then inner
      reality. This is one reason why, if you concentrate on a God
      outside of yourself, you exert power in the wrong direction, and
      eventually it dissipates or weakens rather than magnifies, who you
      are. By loving yourself and respecting all things, you complete an
      esoteric understanding of love that grants you added power and helps
      you to grow.

      The part of your evolution that is the farthest to the outside of
      the real you is your physical body, but because you are in the
      physical, it dominates. By loving and caring for it, you are
      saying – `What I am is beautiful, and what I am has value. I
      respect what I am, and I understand that each and every second of my
      life is an extension of the Energy.' Love of the self and the
      respect that you show for your body is the first step in expanding
      your consciousness.

      Om Tat Sat
      Your Friend and Brother
      Rama
    • jodyrrr
      ... Actually, it s a simple moment of recognition. Seeing what has always been there. It s not about being or not being a body, it s about seeing the truth
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 12, 2005
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "lovepeaceyes2000"
        <lovepeaceyes2000@y...> wrote:
        >
        > My Dear Friend:
        > It is not just an understanding that we are not of the body, but a
        > way of life to realize who we are and where are we from and where
        > are we going. It is by the energy around us that we can see the
        > gift that the Creator has given us.

        Actually, it's a simple moment of recognition. Seeing what
        has always been there. It's not about being or not being a
        body, it's about seeing the truth that is our and the whole
        universe's being. It's not something added or attained.
        It's always been here.
      • Bruce Morgen
        ... ...and it s always been you. This is not a recognition in the usual sense of a successful comparison of sensory input with a memory. It s the Divine
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 12, 2005
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          jodyrrr wrote:

          >--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "lovepeaceyes2000"
          ><lovepeaceyes2000@y...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >>My Dear Friend:
          >>It is not just an understanding that we are not of the body, but a
          >>way of life to realize who we are and where are we from and where
          >>are we going. It is by the energy around us that we can see the
          >>gift that the Creator has given us.
          >>
          >>
          >
          >Actually, it's a simple moment of recognition. Seeing what
          >has always been there. It's not about being or not being a
          >body, it's about seeing the truth that is our and the whole
          >universe's being. It's not something added or attained.
          >It's always been here.
          >
          >
          ...and it's always been you.
          This is not a recognition in
          the usual sense of a
          successful comparison of
          sensory input with a
          memory. It's the Divine
          essence finding Itself in
          Itself, the binding and
          enlivening formless presence
          that nevertheless inhabits
          the entirety of maya, the
          manifest universe of
          apparent forms and causality.
        • Michael Read
          Jodyji ... Bruceji ... Wonderful! Thanks fellas, these words reflect the essence of the truth as stated in the Avadhuta Gita: When water and water are mixed
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 13, 2005
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            Jodyji
            > >Actually, it's a simple moment of recognition. Seeing what
            > >has always been there. It's not about being or not being a
            > >body, it's about seeing the truth that is our and the whole
            > >universe's being. It's not something added or attained.
            > >It's always been here.
            > >
            Bruceji
            > ...and it's always been you.
            > This is not a recognition in
            > the usual sense of a
            > successful comparison of
            > sensory input with a
            > memory. It's the Divine
            > essence finding Itself in
            > Itself, the binding and
            > enlivening formless presence
            > that nevertheless inhabits
            > the entirety of maya, the
            > manifest universe of
            > apparent forms and causality.

            Wonderful!

            Thanks fellas, these words reflect the essence of the truth as
            stated in the Avadhuta Gita:

            "When water and water are mixed
            There is no difference.
            It is the same with matter and spirit.
            This is very clear to me now."

            A word for all our sisters and brothers trying to "get somewhere"
            via the tool of meditation: There is nowhere to go!

            with joy,

            michael
          • Bruce Morgen
            ... Thanks for the kind words and the Gita excerpt -- joyful indeed, sir!
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 13, 2005
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              Michael Read wrote:

              >
              >
              >Jodyji
              >
              >
              >>>Actually, it's a simple moment of recognition. Seeing what
              >>>has always been there. It's not about being or not being a
              >>>body, it's about seeing the truth that is our and the whole
              >>>universe's being. It's not something added or attained.
              >>>It's always been here.
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >Bruceji
              >
              >
              >>...and it's always been you.
              >>This is not a recognition in
              >>the usual sense of a
              >>successful comparison of
              >>sensory input with a
              >>memory. It's the Divine
              >>essence finding Itself in
              >>Itself, the binding and
              >>enlivening formless presence
              >>that nevertheless inhabits
              >>the entirety of maya, the
              >>manifest universe of
              >>apparent forms and causality.
              >>
              >>
              >
              >Wonderful!
              >
              >Thanks fellas, these words reflect the essence of the truth as
              >stated in the Avadhuta Gita:
              >
              >"When water and water are mixed
              >There is no difference.
              >It is the same with matter and spirit.
              >This is very clear to me now."
              >
              >A word for all our sisters and brothers trying to "get somewhere"
              >via the tool of meditation: There is nowhere to go!
              >
              >with joy,
              >
              >michael
              >
              >
              Thanks for the kind words and
              the Gita excerpt -- joyful
              indeed, sir!
            • jasonjamesmorgan
              Hello, Natural abidance in the effulgence of Self if preceded by un-natural abidance in the effulgence of Self. It is like the allegory of the women looking
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 13, 2005
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                Hello,

                Natural abidance in the effulgence of Self if preceded by un-natural
                abidance in the effulgence of Self.

                It is like the allegory of the women looking for the necklace
                everywhere, when the whole time it was around her neck.

                I think the western advaita people are doing some serious damage to
                the people who have not found their necklace. They there is no need
                to look, but leave out the part about how to find it.

                The rishis are great because they tell people what they need to hear
                to realize the self. Unfortunately the western people who went to
                them, realized the self easily because their concentration was
                devolped by western schools etc. So they were just told to be still,
                to hold on to the I, to drop all concepts. But what of the people
                who's minds jump around, and they are unable to do this? Or the
                devotional type, who is unable to give up a conception?

                So these western advaita guys come back here, and start preaching,
                the do nothing path(the last step of dropping the ego and all
                conceptions), and say that meditation and all the glory of 4
                thousands years of hindu spiritual evolution is tossed out the window.

                The Rishis were great because they lead the devotional type person
                thru bhakti, total identification with God. They lead the weak
                minded thru raja yoga, taught them how to concentrate, then taught
                them what to concentrate on.

                Effort is needed to get to the effortless state.

                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Read"
                <mareadba@y...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > Jodyji
                > > >Actually, it's a simple moment of recognition. Seeing what
                > > >has always been there. It's not about being or not being a
                > > >body, it's about seeing the truth that is our and the whole
                > > >universe's being. It's not something added or attained.
                > > >It's always been here.
                > > >

                JJM.The moment of recognition came thru a series of events. Those
                events are sadhana. By realizing one is not the body, is getting one
                step closer, removing one obsticle to realization. This realization
                is like a wall. By removing these false ideas thru sadhana, thru
                knowledge, we lower the wall. Making it easeir to scale the wall and
                realize. It has always been there, like the necklase.

                I always like the allegory of trying to imagine oneself as dead. It
                is impossible, thus proving that we are not the body, we are eternal.


                > Bruceji
                > > ...and it's always been you.
                > > This is not a recognition in
                > > the usual sense of a
                > > successful comparison of
                > > sensory input with a
                > > memory. It's the Divine
                > > essence finding Itself in
                > > Itself, the binding and
                > > enlivening formless presence
                > > that nevertheless inhabits
                > > the entirety of maya, the
                > > manifest universe of
                > > apparent forms and causality.

                JJM.Descibe recognition however you want to. Just remember that a
                truth is not a truth untill you prove it to yourself. Every one will
                need a different explantion, as everyone has different vasanas. What
                worked for you, may not work for someone else. All paths lead to non-
                dual realization.


                >
                > Wonderful!
                >
                > Thanks fellas, these words reflect the essence of the truth as
                > stated in the Avadhuta Gita:
                >
                > "When water and water are mixed
                > There is no difference.
                > It is the same with matter and spirit.
                > This is very clear to me now."
                >
                > A word for all our sisters and brothers trying to "get somewhere"
                > via the tool of meditation: There is nowhere to go!
                >
                > with joy,
                >
                > michael

                JJM. Perfect example. These words worked for him. But if it worked
                for everybody, there would only be one path to realization. No
                muslim non-dual path, no christian non-dual path, no bhakti non-dual
                path, no gnani non-dual path.

                Dropping all concepts is a concept in and of itself.

                Religous tolerance people.

                The cake tastes sweet from all sides.

                Ramana did not deny the existence of other dimensions etc, he only
                said to ignore them.

                All Rishis have said that developing siddhis is an obsticale for
                realization. True True. But what about after realization. Why not
                play with this universe, with all your abilities?

                Meditation is nessacary for some to realize. And meditation is
                fruitfull after realization.

                Most western advaita teachers remind me of crackheads. A crackhead
                who has a mountain of crack in his basement would never leave the
                house. These western advaita people seem stagnent, intolerant, and
                hard headed.

                Realization is the goal of all. But after realization, why not go
                help others, why not develop siddhis, why not study scripture, why
                not do good works, why not take up an ego of devotion or knowledge?

                Namaste
                Om Namah Shivaya
                Jason James Morgan
              • jodyrrr
                ... How would a woman find her necklace? Wouldn t she have to look? How can looking by taught? What s unnatural about being the Self without yet knowing the
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 13, 2005
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                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, jasonjamesmorgan
                  <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello,
                  >
                  > Natural abidance in the effulgence of Self if preceded by un-natural
                  > abidance in the effulgence of Self.
                  >
                  > It is like the allegory of the women looking for the necklace
                  > everywhere, when the whole time it was around her neck.
                  >
                  > I think the western advaita people are doing some serious damage to
                  > the people who have not found their necklace. They there is no need
                  > to look, but leave out the part about how to find it.

                  How would a woman find her necklace? Wouldn't she have to
                  look? How can looking by taught?

                  What's unnatural about being the Self without yet knowing
                  the Self?

                  The fact is, Jason, that everyone will see their necklace
                  when they see their necklace. What are you going to do in
                  the meantime? Meditation is a good idea if you're seeking
                  the Self, but there are many kinds of meditation, taught
                  and spontaneously manifested. It's not only what your
                  interpretation of what the Rishis recommend, which itself
                  is clouded in myth and belief.

                  [snip]

                  > Effort is needed to get to the effortless state.

                  And what that effort entails is going to be different
                  for every single person on the planet.

                  --jody.
                • Michael Read
                  ... natural ... to ... need ... hear ... still, ... It is not the so-called other that you need concern yourself about. Look to yourself. Find out who you are
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 14, 2005
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                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, jasonjamesmorgan
                    <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello,
                    >
                    > Natural abidance in the effulgence of Self if preceded by un-
                    natural
                    > abidance in the effulgence of Self.
                    >
                    > It is like the allegory of the women looking for the necklace
                    > everywhere, when the whole time it was around her neck.
                    >
                    > I think the western advaita people are doing some serious damage
                    to
                    > the people who have not found their necklace. They there is no
                    need
                    > to look, but leave out the part about how to find it.
                    >
                    > The rishis are great because they tell people what they need to
                    hear
                    > to realize the self. Unfortunately the western people who went to
                    > them, realized the self easily because their concentration was
                    > devolped by western schools etc. So they were just told to be
                    still,
                    > to hold on to the I, to drop all concepts. But what of the people
                    > who's minds jump around, and they are unable to do this? Or the
                    > devotional type, who is unable to give up a conception?
                    >

                    It is not the so-called other that you need concern yourself about.
                    Look to yourself. Find out who you are first and foremost.

                    > So these western advaita guys come back here, and start preaching,
                    > the do nothing path(the last step of dropping the ego and all
                    > conceptions), and say that meditation and all the glory of 4
                    > thousands years of hindu spiritual evolution is tossed out the
                    window.
                    >

                    Oh it's much worse than that! Every concept about who you think you
                    are gets destroyed! What a hoot!

                    > The Rishis were great because they lead the devotional type person
                    > thru bhakti, total identification with God. They lead the weak
                    > minded thru raja yoga, taught them how to concentrate, then taught
                    > them what to concentrate on.
                    >
                    > Effort is needed to get to the effortless state.

                    Yah, and the wheel just keeps on turning.

                    >
                    > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Read"
                    > <mareadba@y...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Jodyji
                    > > > >Actually, it's a simple moment of recognition. Seeing what
                    > > > >has always been there. It's not about being or not being a
                    > > > >body, it's about seeing the truth that is our and the whole
                    > > > >universe's being. It's not something added or attained.
                    > > > >It's always been here.
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > JJM.The moment of recognition came thru a series of events. Those
                    > events are sadhana. By realizing one is not the body, is getting
                    one
                    > step closer, removing one obsticle to realization. This
                    realization
                    > is like a wall. By removing these false ideas thru sadhana, thru
                    > knowledge, we lower the wall. Making it easeir to scale the wall
                    and
                    > realize. It has always been there, like the necklase.
                    >
                    > I always like the allegory of trying to imagine oneself as dead.
                    It
                    > is impossible, thus proving that we are not the body, we are
                    eternal.
                    >
                    >
                    > > Bruceji
                    > > > ...and it's always been you.
                    > > > This is not a recognition in
                    > > > the usual sense of a
                    > > > successful comparison of
                    > > > sensory input with a
                    > > > memory. It's the Divine
                    > > > essence finding Itself in
                    > > > Itself, the binding and
                    > > > enlivening formless presence
                    > > > that nevertheless inhabits
                    > > > the entirety of maya, the
                    > > > manifest universe of
                    > > > apparent forms and causality.
                    >
                    > JJM.Descibe recognition however you want to. Just remember that a
                    > truth is not a truth untill you prove it to yourself. Every one
                    will
                    > need a different explantion, as everyone has different vasanas.
                    What
                    > worked for you, may not work for someone else. All paths lead to
                    non-
                    > dual realization.
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Wonderful!
                    > >
                    > > Thanks fellas, these words reflect the essence of the truth as
                    > > stated in the Avadhuta Gita:
                    > >
                    > > "When water and water are mixed
                    > > There is no difference.
                    > > It is the same with matter and spirit.
                    > > This is very clear to me now."
                    > >
                    > > A word for all our sisters and brothers trying to "get
                    somewhere"
                    > > via the tool of meditation: There is nowhere to go!
                    > >
                    > > with joy,
                    > >
                    > > michael
                    >
                    > JJM. Perfect example. These words worked for him. But if it
                    worked
                    > for everybody, there would only be one path to realization. No
                    > muslim non-dual path, no christian non-dual path, no bhakti non-
                    dual
                    > path, no gnani non-dual path.

                    Who is on the 'path'?

                    >
                    > Dropping all concepts is a concept in and of itself.

                    Hey drop that concept and back away slowly...

                    >
                    > Religous tolerance people.

                    Ah, if only the religious were tolerant.

                    >
                    > The cake tastes sweet from all sides.
                    >
                    > Ramana did not deny the existence of other dimensions etc, he only
                    > said to ignore them.
                    >
                    > All Rishis have said that developing siddhis is an obsticale for
                    > realization. True True. But what about after realization. Why
                    not
                    > play with this universe, with all your abilities?

                    Now suppose that you woke up tomorow morning woth all the power in
                    the universe at your command. What would you do? And, who would you
                    do it to?

                    >
                    > Meditation is nessacary for some to realize. And meditation is
                    > fruitfull after realization.

                    Nah, it's just a pleasant way to pass the time.

                    >
                    > Most western advaita teachers remind me of crackheads. A
                    crackhead
                    > who has a mountain of crack in his basement would never leave the
                    > house. These western advaita people seem stagnent, intolerant,
                    and
                    > hard headed.

                    Perhaps. But, who cares!

                    >
                    > Realization is the goal of all. But after realization, why not go
                    > help others, why not develop siddhis, why not study scripture, why
                    > not do good works, why not take up an ego of devotion or knowledge?

                    Why not take up the zither?

                    >
                    > Namaste
                    > Om Namah Shivaya
                    > Jason James Morgan

                    Good luck old man,

                    michael
                  • jasonjamesmorgan
                    Hello, Concentration on the I , is where to look for the neclace. Not realizing the Self, is un-natural. One more thing Jody, Honestly I dont believe you
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 14, 2005
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                      Hello,

                      Concentration on the I , is where to look for the neclace. Not
                      realizing the Self, is un-natural.


                      One more thing Jody, Honestly I dont believe you have read Sri
                      Ramakrishna and his divine play.

                      Firstly it came out last year, and your friends money making endeavor
                      came out in 99, so you would have had your erroneous ideas about the
                      book, and would not have read it.

                      Second from your skillfull avoidance of the bavamukha question, you
                      obviously dont know about it. As it was only mention in the book you
                      did not read.

                      Third a major theme of the book was to show that he was a man, and to
                      remove the myth. Then your assumtions of our myths and such would
                      have no basis.

                      Be back in a couple of hours.

                      Namaste
                      Om Namah Shivaya
                      Jason James Morgan


                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                      <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, jasonjamesmorgan
                      > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hello,
                      > >
                      > > Natural abidance in the effulgence of Self if preceded by un-
                      natural
                      > > abidance in the effulgence of Self.
                      > >
                      > > It is like the allegory of the women looking for the necklace
                      > > everywhere, when the whole time it was around her neck.
                      > >
                      > > I think the western advaita people are doing some serious damage
                      to
                      > > the people who have not found their necklace. They there is no
                      need
                      > > to look, but leave out the part about how to find it.
                      >
                      > How would a woman find her necklace? Wouldn't she have to
                      > look? How can looking by taught?
                      >
                      > What's unnatural about being the Self without yet knowing
                      > the Self?
                      >
                      > The fact is, Jason, that everyone will see their necklace
                      > when they see their necklace. What are you going to do in
                      > the meantime? Meditation is a good idea if you're seeking
                      > the Self, but there are many kinds of meditation, taught
                      > and spontaneously manifested. It's not only what your
                      > interpretation of what the Rishis recommend, which itself
                      > is clouded in myth and belief.
                      >
                      > [snip]
                      >
                      > > Effort is needed to get to the effortless state.
                      >
                      > And what that effort entails is going to be different
                      > for every single person on the planet.
                      >
                      > --jody.
                    • jodyrrr
                      ... That s silly. Very silly. Not realizing the Self is the *most* natural thing in the realm of human psychology. If it wasn t, there d by a lot more
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 14, 2005
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                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, jasonjamesmorgan
                        <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello,
                        >
                        > Concentration on the I , is where to look for the neclace. Not
                        > realizing the Self, is un-natural.

                        That's silly. Very silly. Not realizing the Self is
                        the *most* natural thing in the realm of human psychology.

                        If it wasn't, there'd by a lot more realized folk about.

                        > One more thing Jody, Honestly I dont believe you have read Sri
                        > Ramakrishna and his divine play.

                        You are right. I thought you were referring to "Ramakrishna,
                        The Great Master."

                        > Firstly it came out last year, and your friends money making endeavor
                        > came out in 99, so you would have had your erroneous ideas about the
                        > book, and would not have read it.

                        Firstly, Kali's Child was not a money-making endeavor.
                        It is a published Phd dissertion that found an audience
                        due to the truths it contained.

                        > Second from your skillfull avoidance of the bavamukha question, you
                        > obviously dont know about it. As it was only mention in the book you
                        > did not read.
                        >
                        > Third a major theme of the book was to show that he was a man, and to
                        > remove the myth. Then your assumtions of our myths and such would
                        > have no basis.
                        >
                        > Be back in a couple of hours.
                        >
                        > Namaste
                        > Om Namah Shivaya
                        > Jason James Morgan

                        Whatever. The fact is that Ramakrishna liked the boys a
                        lot more than the Math lets on to. It's easy for them
                        to continue the coverup as the devotional community is
                        chock full of fawning sycophants who would not dare to
                        think critically about their precious "Thakur" fantasy.

                        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                        > <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, jasonjamesmorgan
                        > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Hello,
                        > > >
                        > > > Natural abidance in the effulgence of Self if preceded by un-
                        > natural
                        > > > abidance in the effulgence of Self.
                        > > >
                        > > > It is like the allegory of the women looking for the necklace
                        > > > everywhere, when the whole time it was around her neck.
                        > > >
                        > > > I think the western advaita people are doing some serious damage
                        > to
                        > > > the people who have not found their necklace. They there is no
                        > need
                        > > > to look, but leave out the part about how to find it.
                        > >
                        > > How would a woman find her necklace? Wouldn't she have to
                        > > look? How can looking by taught?
                        > >
                        > > What's unnatural about being the Self without yet knowing
                        > > the Self?
                        > >
                        > > The fact is, Jason, that everyone will see their necklace
                        > > when they see their necklace. What are you going to do in
                        > > the meantime? Meditation is a good idea if you're seeking
                        > > the Self, but there are many kinds of meditation, taught
                        > > and spontaneously manifested. It's not only what your
                        > > interpretation of what the Rishis recommend, which itself
                        > > is clouded in myth and belief.
                        > >
                        > > [snip]
                        > >
                        > > > Effort is needed to get to the effortless state.
                        > >
                        > > And what that effort entails is going to be different
                        > > for every single person on the planet.
                        > >
                        > > --jody.
                      • devianandi
                        ... devi: i know you have a love of the truth but have you ever considered that sometimes its best to just keep quiet? i m just referring to ramakrishna and
                        Message 11 of 12 , Apr 14, 2005
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                          >
                          > Whatever. The fact is that Ramakrishna liked the boys a
                          > lot more than the Math lets on to. It's easy for them
                          > to continue the coverup as the devotional community is
                          > chock full of fawning sycophants who would not dare to
                          > think critically about their precious "Thakur" fantasy.
                          >


                          devi: i know you have a love of the truth but have you ever
                          considered that sometimes its best to just keep quiet? i'm just
                          referring to ramakrishna and his so called penchant......a long time
                          ago when someone gave me the Gospel of Ramakrishna i read it and
                          found great comfort in it...it's a wonderful wonderful book with so
                          much good God stuff to digest....sooooooo many teachings.....!

                          if i had thought/heard beleived that he was a pedifile, there would
                          have been no way i would have had that expereince of that book...see?

                          i would have missed out on something really GREAT

                          by spreading this news, people will be turned away...

                          or

                          all the pedifiles will think they can become perfect masters..

                          my truth
                          devi
                        • jasonjamesmorgan
                          Hello, I totally agree with you, I think the best thing to be done is to keep this guys name out our mouth. And if it does come up, just give them the
                          Message 12 of 12 , Apr 14, 2005
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                            Hello,

                            I totally agree with you, I think the best thing to be done is to
                            keep this guys name out our mouth. And if it does come up, just give
                            them the official refutation. He is not coming out with a third
                            edition, because he has no ground to stand on anymore.

                            I hope no one will be deterred from finding this rishi through the
                            works of his devotees and disciples, because of one mans myth about
                            the master.

                            I think it is a testiment to the purity of the culture, that this man
                            is only suffering the effects of his malevolence through maya. If he
                            had tried to make a dollar by saying Mohamad was gay, I think one of
                            their more radical following would have let his blood by now.

                            Truth always prevails, as it is apparent. The real myth around the
                            master, is that his devotees are unrealistic and that he was sexually
                            disturbed.

                            Namaste
                            Om Namah Shivaya
                            Jason James Morgan






                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "devianandi"
                            <polansky@m...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > >
                            > > Whatever. The fact is that Ramakrishna liked the boys a
                            > > lot more than the Math lets on to. It's easy for them
                            > > to continue the coverup as the devotional community is
                            > > chock full of fawning sycophants who would not dare to
                            > > think critically about their precious "Thakur" fantasy.
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            > devi: i know you have a love of the truth but have you ever
                            > considered that sometimes its best to just keep quiet? i'm just
                            > referring to ramakrishna and his so called penchant......a long
                            time
                            > ago when someone gave me the Gospel of Ramakrishna i read it and
                            > found great comfort in it...it's a wonderful wonderful book with so
                            > much good God stuff to digest....sooooooo many teachings.....!
                            >
                            > if i had thought/heard beleived that he was a pedifile, there would
                            > have been no way i would have had that expereince of that
                            book...see?
                            >
                            > i would have missed out on something really GREAT
                            >
                            > by spreading this news, people will be turned away...
                            >
                            > or
                            >
                            > all the pedifiles will think they can become perfect masters..
                            >
                            > my truth
                            > devi
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