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Re: Weekly Words ofWisdom-Love-Bob

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  • tarah513
    ... wrote: Dear Faithe, I d say that you present an intellectual argument pretty well, but it is a spiritual and emotional situation. As
    Message 1 of 24 , Jan 17, 2005
      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
      <no_reply@y...> wrote:

      Dear Faithe,
      I'd say that you present an intellectual
      argument pretty well, but it is a spiritual
      and emotional situation. As Gurdjieff would
      put it, you're using the "wrong center"
      to deal with Love.

      Faithe:

      You separate "intellectual" from "spiritual &
      emotional" situations. Is there really a
      separation? (More below in this topic.)

      Since Gurdjieff is not around to ask what he
      means, I will side-step the comment on
      "wrong center" as you say he would put it.

      I ask YOU what do you mean by "wrong center"?

      Bob:

      In Raja Yoga, the yoga
      of meditation, we find the first 2 steps
      are to discriminate between the real/eternal
      and the unreal/transient, and to have dispassion.

      Faithe:

      And how does one be discriminate at the same
      time as having dispassion? Is this not a conflict
      of terms? To discriminate is to find favor with
      something compared to another...which suggests
      emotion.

      Bob:

      The selfish love you write of is clearly
      situational and changing. It goes from worthy to
      unworthy.

      Faithe:

      I disagree. The selfish love which I speak of is
      unchanging. It is the "unselfish" love that
      vacillates from the worthy to unworthy. The selfish
      love is always worthy.

      Bob:

      This has nothing whatsoever to do with
      what Swamiji is pointing to. To use an example
      from another yoga that deals with Love, Kundalini
      Yoga, the Heart Chakra, when opened, is not
      selfish at all, and is infinite and non-exclusive
      in nature.

      Faithe:

      Could you please explain that further. I do not
      understand what you are saying. What does this
      love, when opened, do? How do you suppose that
      this Kundalini Yoga came to be?

      Bob:

      And when the veil of illusion is ripped
      away, the undescribable Reality presents itself as
      can perhaps best be most closly described as
      Loving Consciousness.

      Faithe:

      Have you met "Loving Consciousness". Who rips
      this veil away? Why is "Reality" undescribable?

      Bob:

      Words can only give a drop in the oceans worth of
      understanding of what this "Love" is.

      Faithe:

      Forget about the drops, do you understand it,
      and if so, can you explain it to me a little bit
      better?

      Bob:

      IT is only known experientially. And until that is
      our reality, all of our "selfish" actions are only
      attempts to experience this unselfish Love.

      Faithe:

      What is this "IT" that you refer to? Since it is only
      known personally through experiences (experientially)
      then it should be able to be explained...no?

      Could you please give me an example of what you
      perceive to be a "selfish" action?

      Bob:

      Peace and blessing,
      Bob

      PS: I remember Swami Satchidananda once saying
      (and I'm paraphrasing here) that the most selfish
      person was the one who wants to be unselfish,
      as s/he knows that only then will the entire
      creation be known as themselves, and thus
      satisfy all desires.

      Faithe:

      And what does that above mean? Sounds confusing to me.

      With all the conversation above, I now
      point out that your attempt to separate
      "intellectual" from "spiritual" is nothing
      more than a concept derived from an intellectual
      base to describe the "spiritual" as "separate".

      You make reference to "steps to be taken" above in
      Yoga...this too is nothing more than using the
      intellectual to come up with more concepts.

      All the meditation & yoga "theories", practices
      and "how to's" are all intellectual means to
      describe a process. Man is wondrous in using
      the intellectual to explain everything...even
      to the point of saying certain things are
      "unexplainable"...because intellectually
      they have been set up that way.

      Please, do not construe this as a belittling of
      meditation & yoga, because this is NOT the intention.
      What I am attempting to do is to take the mystique,
      secretiveness and "unexplainable" aspect out of it. My
      life is one continual meditative process.

      Man has been working on making spirituality full of
      hidden meanings, etc., for thousands of years. Haven't
      we been asleep long enough? Isn't it about time
      that we wake up to this fraud and take the hocus-
      pocus out of it?

      The "Loving Consciousness" that you refer to, falls
      into this same mode. It has been conceived out of
      the intellectual. Can you explain the difference
      between "Loving Consciousness" and "consciousness"?

      Intellectually, emotionally & spiritually yours,

      Faithe
    • medit8ionsociety
      ... Well, let s see if we can summerize Gurdjieff s concept of centers by giving a few examples of not using the right center at the right time. Let s say that
      Message 2 of 24 , Jan 17, 2005
        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, tarah513
        <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
        > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear Faithe,
        > I'd say that you present an intellectual
        > argument pretty well, but it is a spiritual
        > and emotional situation. As Gurdjieff would
        > put it, you're using the "wrong center"
        > to deal with Love.
        >
        > Faithe:
        >
        > You separate "intellectual" from "spiritual &
        > emotional" situations. Is there really a
        > separation? (More below in this topic.)
        >
        > Since Gurdjieff is not around to ask what he
        > means, I will side-step the comment on
        > "wrong center" as you say he would put it.
        >
        > I ask YOU what do you mean by "wrong center"?

        Well, let's see if we can summerize Gurdjieff's
        concept of centers by giving a few examples of
        not using the right center at the right time. Let's
        say that we are playing baseball, and are at bat.
        If we try to analyze the speed of the ball, the
        distance it's being thrown from, the weight of the
        ball, the height of the pitcher, the weather
        conditions, and so on, we're never going to be able
        to actually hit the ball. The intellectual center
        is inappropriate for this task. But if we let our
        body do the job, we can. This is using the physical
        center for a physical task. Similarly, if we want
        to purchase a car, it would make sense to use the
        intellectual center to determine if the price is
        fair, rather than just relying on our emotional or
        physical reaction to the car. Etc. Also, in general, the
        misuse of the appropriate center for the task at hand
        is one of the main causes of squandered energy, and
        drains us needlessly. And when we witness our life i
        n a balanced fashion, using the appropriate center at
        the appropriate time, we are then at the point where
        we can begin to "do", and not just react to the events
        in our life.

        > Bob:
        >
        > In Raja Yoga, the yoga
        > of meditation, we find the first 2 steps
        > are to discriminate between the real/eternal
        > and the unreal/transient, and to have dispassion.
        >
        > Faithe:
        >
        > And how does one be discriminate at the same
        > time as having dispassion? Is this not a conflict
        > of terms? To discriminate is to find favor with
        > something compared to another...which suggests
        > emotion.

        How does one discriminate at the same time as having
        dispassion? By unreactively witnessing our life
        as it takes place without judgement, comparisons, or
        commentary. And this ability is potentiated up by meditating.
        And meditation begins with discrimination and dispassion.
        When we get overly reactive positively or negatively,
        we are set up for a fall. The calm unattached witnessing
        of life's flow is the way to go. "Don't sweat the small
        stuff" is a basic form of discrimination. In Raja Yoga,
        this is extropolated to the infinite and eternal. These
        have been the first 2 steps in the meditative process for
        thousands of years, and is the foundation that must exist
        for the control of the senses, the mind, and emotions
        to happen. We then proceed to being able to
        concentrate, and then have meditation come to us, and
        ultimately enter into contemplation.

        > Bob:
        >
        > The selfish love you write of is clearly
        > situational and changing. It goes from worthy to
        > unworthy.
        >
        > Faithe:
        >
        > I disagree. The selfish love which I speak of is
        > unchanging. It is the "unselfish" love that
        > vacillates from the worthy to unworthy. The selfish
        > love is always worthy.

        I disagree. The selfish love is always qualified.

        > Bob:
        >
        > This has nothing whatsoever to do with
        > what Swamiji is pointing to. To use an example
        > from another yoga that deals with Love, Kundalini
        > Yoga, the Heart Chakra, when opened, is not
        > selfish at all, and is infinite and non-exclusive
        > in nature.
        >
        > Faithe:
        >
        > Could you please explain that further. I do not
        > understand what you are saying. What does this
        > love, when opened, do? How do you suppose that
        > this Kundalini Yoga came to be?

        Yes, words can't explain that which is experiential.
        I think Kundalini came to be long ago as our ancesters
        sat in caves and had no internet to surf, nor Tv
        to watch, so they looked within and found the really
        impressive reality show of shows:-)

        > Bob:
        >
        > And when the veil of illusion is ripped
        > away, the undescribable Reality presents itself as
        > can perhaps best be most closly described as
        > Loving Consciousness.
        >
        > Faithe:
        >
        > Have you met "Loving Consciousness". Who rips
        > this veil away? Why is "Reality" undescribable?

        The infiniteness of how much love is everpresent
        is beyond words and the experience of IT is mind
        chatter stopping. And the experience is not
        producable. It comes by Grace.

        > Bob:
        >
        > Words can only give a drop in the oceans worth of
        > understanding of what this "Love" is.
        >
        > Faithe:
        >
        > Forget about the drops, do you understand it,
        > and if so, can you explain it to me a little bit
        > better?

        I can't even explain it to my so-called self.
        IT is experiental.

        > Bob:
        >
        > IT is only known experientially. And until that is
        > our reality, all of our "selfish" actions are only
        > attempts to experience this unselfish Love.
        >
        > Faithe:
        >
        > What is this "IT" that you refer to? Since it is only
        > known personally through experiences (experientially)
        > then it should be able to be explained...no?

        No - see above, and within.

        > Could you please give me an example of what you
        > perceive to be a "selfish" action?

        Seeing only your body/mind/emotions as what needs to
        be cared about. And this puts you in a terrible
        and vulnerable position, whereas the person who puts
        others needs before "their" own can't go wrong. If
        you act for the good of others, you will never get
        "bad karma", and if you act for yourself only, it
        can't be avoided. As Kir Li Molari put it "Only
        the selfish suffer".

        > Bob:
        >
        > Peace and blessing,
        > Bob
        >
        > PS: I remember Swami Satchidananda once saying
        > (and I'm paraphrasing here) that the most selfish
        > person was the one who wants to be unselfish,
        > as s/he knows that only then will the entire
        > creation be known as themselves, and thus
        > satisfy all desires.
        >
        > Faithe:
        >
        > And what does that above mean? Sounds confusing to me.

        I'm sorry, I must have retold it in a poor way.
        It means that being unselfish is such a good stratogy
        for life that you are actually being selfish if you take
        that approach because you know good things will always
        then come to you.

        > With all the conversation above, I now
        > point out that your attempt to separate
        > "intellectual" from "spiritual" is nothing
        > more than a concept derived from an intellectual
        > base to describe the "spiritual" as "separate".

        Yeah, sort of. But what I am pointing to is being complete,
        and not top heavy intellectually. Because then you
        would be unbalanced, and eventually you will surely
        tip over, and that's a very vulnerable position to be in.

        > You make reference to "steps to be taken" above in
        > Yoga...this too is nothing more than using the
        > intellectual to come up with more concepts.
        >
        If that's as far as you want to take it. But I think
        that's seeing only one tree when there is a forrest
        in front of you.

        > All the meditation & yoga "theories", practices
        > and "how to's" are all intellectual means to
        > describe a process. Man is wondrous in using
        > the intellectual to explain everything...even
        > to the point of saying certain things are
        > "unexplainable"...because intellectually
        > they have been set up that way.

        I'm going to go way out here...The mind is your/our
        biggest enemy, and it's here talking you right out of
        self-enquiry and justifying a position that shuts off
        evolution of consciousness. Still the mind if you
        want to "get IT". And Raja Yoga/meditation is a fine
        way towards that end. If you want to go the intellectual
        route, Jhana Yoga, the yoga of wisdom is right there
        for us. It is perhaps the "hardest" path, but for many,
        it has been most beneficial. Enquire "Who am I".
        And see what happens.

        > Please, do not construe this as a belittling of
        > meditation & yoga, because this is NOT the intention.
        > What I am attempting to do is to take the mystique,
        > secretiveness and "unexplainable" aspect out of it. My
        > life is one continual meditative process.

        That's great! I hope it brings you peace. I don't think
        meditation and yoga are at all secretive and unexpalanable.
        I think a life without meditation is.

        > Man has been working on making spirituality full of
        > hidden meanings, etc., for thousands of years. Haven't
        > we been asleep long enough? Isn't it about time
        > that we wake up to this fraud and take the hocus-
        > pocus out of it?

        That's what meditation is all about.

        > The "Loving Consciousness" that you refer to, falls
        > into this same mode. It has been conceived out of
        > the intellectual. Can you explain the difference
        > between "Loving Consciousness" and "consciousness"?

        Yeah, but to quote Kir Li Molari again, all it would
        be is more "Words! Words! Words!"

        > Intellectually, emotionally & spiritually yours,
        >
        > Faithe

        Peace and blessings,
        Bob
      • T.
        Hi guys, it s me - the baby lurker. Holy crow, I want to get where you guys are!! I know of course that you all have been studying (??) and practicing for a
        Message 3 of 24 , Jan 18, 2005
          Hi guys, it's me - the baby lurker.

          Holy crow, I want to get where you guys are!! I know of course that
          you all have been studying (??) and practicing for a long time and
          I'm willing to accept what I can achieve/recieve slowly but surely.

          I just don't know where/how to start!! I attempt meditation
          frequently - but still haven't achieved it. I'm not
          getting "frustrated" really, but something like it.

          I hate to ask you all to go back to basics - but any lessons/advice
          you could lend to a newcomer would be greatly appreciated.

          I want this very badly, but I'm finding that I'm not even exactly
          sure what "this" is - it seems the more I try to draw closer to it -
          the further away I'm actually getting. And it seems that all the
          wanting and trying is about as far away from it as it can get!! =o)

          I hope this isn't considered an intrusion. My apologies, if it is.

          Trina

          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
          <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          >
          > "Selfish love is not love. It's attachment, because you are doing
          > things for your sake. Real love has no selfishness in it. If you
          > really love somebody, it is completely selfless. The entire nature
          > loves us selflessly. Whether we appreciate or not, whether we give
          > anything in return or not, it just loves us. Rain pours without any
          > expectation; sun shines without any expectation; trees give their
          > fruits without any expectation; bushes give their flowers without
          any
          > expectation; the cow gives milk without any expectation. The motto
          of
          > the entire nature is selflessness: serve, serve, serve. In fact, we
          > are created to serve others, not to serve ourselves. We have been
          > provided everything by God or Nature, to serve others.
          >
          > God bless you. Om Shanthi, Shanthi, Shanthi."
          >
          > H.H. Sri Gurudev Swami Satchidananda
          >
          > For more information about Swami Satchidananda:
          > http://www.swamisatchidananda.org
        • Thomas R. Strauman
          Trina, Just do it. The importance is not in the achieving, but in the doing. Tom.
          Message 4 of 24 , Jan 19, 2005
            Trina,
             
            Just do it.  The importance is not in the achieving, but in the doing.
             
            Tom.
          • Bob Hart
            Hi Trina, What is it you are expecting to find with meditation? Namaste Bob Hart
            Message 5 of 24 , Jan 23, 2005
              Hi Trina, What is it you are expecting to find with meditation?
              Namaste Bob Hart
            • T.
              I d like to deepen my relationship with God. I d like to calm my inner soul. I d like to broaden my understanding. I would like to stop trying and just BE.
              Message 6 of 24 , Jan 23, 2005
                I'd like to deepen my relationship with God. I'd like to calm my
                inner soul. I'd like to broaden my understanding. I would like to
                stop trying and just BE.

                Mostly, I just want to be able to do it!! I have the HARDEST time
                quieting my mind. I haven't really been able to achieve
                meditation. I think I've come close - but then I THINK about it
                ("oh, yay, I'm doing it!!") and then it goes and stays gone. LOL

                Trina


                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bob Hart
                <hartbd_62521@y...> wrote:
                > Hi Trina, What is it you are expecting to find with meditation?
                > Namaste Bob Hart
              • Bob Hart
                Hi Trina, try this, 1. first for 5 min just sit and watch what goes on in your mind, don t try and do anything, just observe, eyes closed go ahead and do it
                Message 7 of 24 , Jan 23, 2005
                  Hi Trina, try this, 1. first for 5 min just sit and watch what goes on in your mind, don't try and do anything, just observe, eyes closed go ahead and do it now._____________________ Good what did you see? what did you hear? there probably was a lot going on in your head right? OK  lesson 2. for 5 min choose one of these practices, on the out breath count 1 every out breath count untill you get to 10 then start over ,, eyes closed both practices this one just say breathing in as you breat in and breathing out as you breate out. now try that for 5 min. go ahead and try it.  What happen? Did you find that there wasn't room in your head for all the chatter this time?     Most of the time you can only think of one think at a time so when you pratice one of these your mind chatter should cease. If you find your self losing track of were you are just go back to your practice. When any thoughts come just say thinking thinking go back to your practice. Try this and get back with me please. Thanks Trina.
                  Namaste Bob Hart
                • T.
                  Okay! I tried what you suggested. First - my mind was of course, pretty loud and busy. I m sure you expected that. I just listened to it and took some
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jan 25, 2005
                    Okay! I tried what you suggested. First - my mind was of course,
                    pretty loud and busy. I'm sure you expected that. I just listened
                    to it and took some "mental notes". Didn't seem really chaotic -
                    just busy.

                    Then I tried the counting technique - and I fell asleep the first
                    time (dang!!) BUT - I tried the counting technique again tonight and
                    although I did a lot of thinking (dang!!) I just did what you
                    suggested and mentally said "thinking" and went back to counting.
                    I'm not sure that I accomplished any sort of medatative state -
                    however I was PLEASED to see that when I opened my eyes, 8 minutes
                    had passed when I was SURE it would be only 3 or 4. So, that was
                    GOOD.

                    I felt pretty relaxed and my hands and feet had a slight tingle and
                    I was surprised at how LONG it took to get to 10 (thinking!! LOL) -
                    so, all in all I feel like it was a good experience. I will
                    continue to use this method and keep you updated.

                    Looking forward to my next lesson! *wink* and THANK YOU for taking
                    the time with me - to teach me. I really appreciate you!

                    Trina

                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bob Hart
                    <hartbd_62521@y...> wrote:
                    > Hi Trina, try this, 1. first for 5 min just sit and watch what
                    goes on in your mind, don't try and do anything, just observe, eyes
                    closed go ahead and do it now._____________________ Good what did
                    you see? what did you hear? there probably was a lot going on in
                    your head right? OK lesson 2. for 5 min choose one of these
                    practices, on the out breath count 1 every out breath count untill
                    you get to 10 then start over ,, eyes closed both practices this one
                    just say breathing in as you breat in and breathing out as you
                    breate out. now try that for 5 min. go ahead and try it. What
                    happen? Did you find that there wasn't room in your head for all the
                    chatter this time? Most of the time you can only think of one
                    think at a time so when you pratice one of these your mind chatter
                    should cease. If you find your self losing track of were you are
                    just go back to your practice. When any thoughts come just say
                    thinking thinking go back to your practice. Try this and get back
                    with me please.
                    > Thanks Trina.
                    > Namaste Bob Hart
                  • n0by
                    In true meditation the meditator and the object of meditation are no longer present. If there is intention to meditate then this intention, this doing, is
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jan 26, 2005
                      In true meditation the meditator and the object of meditation are no
                      longer present.
                      If there is intention to meditate then this intention, this doing,
                      is coming from a doer. It comes from the concept of separation, "ME".
                      When meditation happens there is no one to whom it happens, no
                      happener making it happen.
                      Such moments cannot be brought about by methods, techniques or
                      practices as these are all ego based, based upon the idea that one
                      is not already existence itself.
                      The impulse to meditate arises when the action of seeking is
                      believed to be coming from a seeker, from "otherness", and this in
                      turn creates something to be sought. Seeking is an activity, NOT an
                      entity, in consciousness.
                      That which the seeking arises from is what is being sought. When
                      this is intuitively understood no deliberate attempt to meditate can
                      arise as the impulse to do so is no longer present, having been
                      severed at the root by the realisation that there is only Oneness,
                      that one is already what was being sought.
                      This is true meditation, there is no longer a meditator, simply
                      meditation happening.



                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "T."
                      <jedsgirl522@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Okay! I tried what you suggested. First - my mind was of course,
                      > pretty loud and busy. I'm sure you expected that. I just
                      listened
                      > to it and took some "mental notes". Didn't seem really chaotic -
                      > just busy.
                      >
                      > Then I tried the counting technique - and I fell asleep the first
                      > time (dang!!) BUT - I tried the counting technique again tonight
                      and
                      > although I did a lot of thinking (dang!!) I just did what you
                      > suggested and mentally said "thinking" and went back to counting.
                      > I'm not sure that I accomplished any sort of medatative state -
                      > however I was PLEASED to see that when I opened my eyes, 8 minutes
                      > had passed when I was SURE it would be only 3 or 4. So, that was
                      > GOOD.
                      >
                      > I felt pretty relaxed and my hands and feet had a slight tingle and
                      > I was surprised at how LONG it took to get to 10 (thinking!! LOL) -
                      > so, all in all I feel like it was a good experience. I will
                      > continue to use this method and keep you updated.
                      >
                      > Looking forward to my next lesson! *wink* and THANK YOU for taking
                      > the time with me - to teach me. I really appreciate you!
                      >
                      > Trina
                      >
                      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bob Hart
                      > <hartbd_62521@y...> wrote:
                      > > Hi Trina, try this, 1. first for 5 min just sit and watch what
                      > goes on in your mind, don't try and do anything, just observe, eyes
                      > closed go ahead and do it now._____________________ Good what did
                      > you see? what did you hear? there probably was a lot going on in
                      > your head right? OK lesson 2. for 5 min choose one of these
                      > practices, on the out breath count 1 every out breath count untill
                      > you get to 10 then start over ,, eyes closed both practices this
                      one
                      > just say breathing in as you breat in and breathing out as you
                      > breate out. now try that for 5 min. go ahead and try it. What
                      > happen? Did you find that there wasn't room in your head for all
                      the
                      > chatter this time? Most of the time you can only think of one
                      > think at a time so when you pratice one of these your mind chatter
                      > should cease. If you find your self losing track of were you are
                      > just go back to your practice. When any thoughts come just say
                      > thinking thinking go back to your practice. Try this and get back
                      > with me please.
                      > > Thanks Trina.
                      > > Namaste Bob Hart
                    • T.
                      How did you learn how to meditate? Trina ... no ... separation, ME . ... an ... can ... course, ... first ... counting. ... minutes ... was ... and ... LOL) -
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jan 27, 2005
                        How did you learn how to meditate?

                        Trina


                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "n0by"
                        <n0by4you@y...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > In true meditation the meditator and the object of meditation are
                        no
                        > longer present.
                        > If there is intention to meditate then this intention, this doing,
                        > is coming from a doer. It comes from the concept of
                        separation, "ME".
                        > When meditation happens there is no one to whom it happens, no
                        > happener making it happen.
                        > Such moments cannot be brought about by methods, techniques or
                        > practices as these are all ego based, based upon the idea that one
                        > is not already existence itself.
                        > The impulse to meditate arises when the action of seeking is
                        > believed to be coming from a seeker, from "otherness", and this in
                        > turn creates something to be sought. Seeking is an activity, NOT
                        an
                        > entity, in consciousness.
                        > That which the seeking arises from is what is being sought. When
                        > this is intuitively understood no deliberate attempt to meditate
                        can
                        > arise as the impulse to do so is no longer present, having been
                        > severed at the root by the realisation that there is only Oneness,
                        > that one is already what was being sought.
                        > This is true meditation, there is no longer a meditator, simply
                        > meditation happening.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "T."
                        > <jedsgirl522@y...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Okay! I tried what you suggested. First - my mind was of
                        course,
                        > > pretty loud and busy. I'm sure you expected that. I just
                        > listened
                        > > to it and took some "mental notes". Didn't seem really chaotic -

                        > > just busy.
                        > >
                        > > Then I tried the counting technique - and I fell asleep the
                        first
                        > > time (dang!!) BUT - I tried the counting technique again tonight
                        > and
                        > > although I did a lot of thinking (dang!!) I just did what you
                        > > suggested and mentally said "thinking" and went back to
                        counting.
                        > > I'm not sure that I accomplished any sort of medatative state -
                        > > however I was PLEASED to see that when I opened my eyes, 8
                        minutes
                        > > had passed when I was SURE it would be only 3 or 4. So, that
                        was
                        > > GOOD.
                        > >
                        > > I felt pretty relaxed and my hands and feet had a slight tingle
                        and
                        > > I was surprised at how LONG it took to get to 10 (thinking!!
                        LOL) -
                        > > so, all in all I feel like it was a good experience. I will
                        > > continue to use this method and keep you updated.
                        > >
                        > > Looking forward to my next lesson! *wink* and THANK YOU for
                        taking
                        > > the time with me - to teach me. I really appreciate you!
                        > >
                        > > Trina
                        > >
                        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bob Hart
                        > > <hartbd_62521@y...> wrote:
                        > > > Hi Trina, try this, 1. first for 5 min just sit and watch what
                        > > goes on in your mind, don't try and do anything, just observe,
                        eyes
                        > > closed go ahead and do it now._____________________ Good what
                        did
                        > > you see? what did you hear? there probably was a lot going on in
                        > > your head right? OK lesson 2. for 5 min choose one of these
                        > > practices, on the out breath count 1 every out breath count
                        untill
                        > > you get to 10 then start over ,, eyes closed both practices this
                        > one
                        > > just say breathing in as you breat in and breathing out as you
                        > > breate out. now try that for 5 min. go ahead and try it. What
                        > > happen? Did you find that there wasn't room in your head for all
                        > the
                        > > chatter this time? Most of the time you can only think of
                        one
                        > > think at a time so when you pratice one of these your mind
                        chatter
                        > > should cease. If you find your self losing track of were you are
                        > > just go back to your practice. When any thoughts come just say
                        > > thinking thinking go back to your practice. Try this and get
                        back
                        > > with me please.
                        > > > Thanks Trina.
                        > > > Namaste Bob Hart
                      • sarif mir
                        Thanks trina sarifmir T. wrote: How did you learn how to meditate? Trina ... no ... separation, ME . ... an ... can ... course, ...
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jan 27, 2005
                          Thanks trina
                          sarifmir

                          "T." <jedsgirl522@...> wrote:

                          How did you learn how to meditate?

                          Trina


                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "n0by"
                          <n0by4you@y...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > In true meditation the meditator and the object of meditation are
                          no
                          > longer present.
                          > If there is intention to meditate then this intention, this doing,
                          > is coming from a doer. It comes from the concept of
                          separation, "ME".
                          > When meditation happens there is no one to whom it happens, no
                          > happener making it happen.
                          > Such moments cannot be brought about by methods, techniques or
                          > practices as these are all ego based, based upon the idea that one
                          > is not already existence itself.
                          > The impulse to meditate arises when the action of seeking is
                          > believed to be coming from a seeker, from "otherness", and this in
                          > turn creates something to be sought. Seeking is an activity, NOT
                          an
                          > entity, in consciousness.
                          > That which the seeking arises from is what is being sought. When
                          > this is intuitively understood no deliberate attempt to meditate
                          can
                          > arise as the impulse to do so is no longer present, having been
                          > severed at the root by the realisation that there is only Oneness,
                          > that one is already what was being sought.
                          > This is true meditation, there is no longer a meditator, simply
                          > meditation happening.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "T."
                          > <jedsgirl522@y...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Okay!  I tried what you suggested.  First - my mind was of
                          course,
                          > > pretty loud and busy.  I'm sure you expected that.  I  just
                          > listened
                          > > to it and took some "mental notes".  Didn't seem really chaotic -

                          > > just busy.
                          > >
                          > > Then I tried the counting technique - and I fell asleep the
                          first
                          > > time (dang!!) BUT - I tried the counting technique again tonight
                          > and
                          > > although I did a lot of thinking (dang!!) I just did what you
                          > > suggested and mentally said "thinking" and went back to
                          counting. 
                          > > I'm not sure that I accomplished any sort of medatative state -
                          > > however I was PLEASED to see that when I opened my eyes, 8
                          minutes
                          > > had passed when I was SURE it would be only 3 or 4.  So, that
                          was
                          > > GOOD.
                          > >
                          > > I felt pretty relaxed and my hands and feet had a slight tingle
                          and
                          > > I was surprised at how LONG it took to get to 10 (thinking!!
                          LOL) -
                          > > so, all in all I feel like it was a good experience.   I will
                          > > continue to use this method and keep you updated. 
                          > >
                          > > Looking forward to my next lesson!  *wink* and THANK YOU for
                          taking
                          > > the time with me - to teach me.  I really appreciate you!
                          > >
                          > > Trina
                          > >
                          > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bob Hart
                          > > <hartbd_62521@y...> wrote:
                          > > > Hi Trina, try this, 1. first for 5 min just sit and watch what
                          > > goes on in your mind, don't try and do anything, just observe,
                          eyes
                          > > closed go ahead and do it now._____________________ Good what
                          did
                          > > you see? what did you hear? there probably was a lot going on in
                          > > your head right? OK  lesson 2. for 5 min choose one of these
                          > > practices, on the out breath count 1 every out breath count
                          untill
                          > > you get to 10 then start over ,, eyes closed both practices this
                          > one
                          > > just say breathing in as you breat in and breathing out as you
                          > > breate out. now try that for 5 min. go ahead and try it.  What
                          > > happen? Did you find that there wasn't room in your head for all
                          > the
                          > > chatter this time?     Most of the time you can only think of
                          one
                          > > think at a time so when you pratice one of these your mind
                          chatter
                          > > should cease. If you find your self losing track of were you are
                          > > just go back to your practice. When any thoughts come just say
                          > > thinking thinking go back to your practice. Try this and get
                          back
                          > > with me please.
                          > > >  Thanks Trina.
                          > > > Namaste Bob Hart




                          Do you Yahoo!?
                          Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'

                        • Savitri &Kamalakar Rambhatla
                          Hai: I am a silent member of this group and reading and enjoying the info posted. Meditation is the key regardless of what method and who taught it. Just as
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jan 27, 2005
                            Hai:
                            I am a silent member of this group and reading and enjoying the info posted. Meditation is the key regardless of what method and who taught it. Just as two human beings are not the same, every person has unique awareness and the inert energy within us can come to the surface with meditation. I can suggest for those interested to visit www.dhyanapeetam.org and watch the enlightened master swami Nithyananda, a young 28 year old from Bangalore. He has given us only half hour meditation per day easily done by anybody. Infact he has trained acharyas last year who are now conducting life bliss program all over US, which cleanses and energises our 7 major chakras or centers. If anybody is interested further, please write to me. I am in Los Angeles.
                             
                            Sri Nithya Swabav

                            "T." <jedsgirl522@...> wrote:

                            How did you learn how to meditate?

                            Trina


                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "n0by"
                            <n0by4you@y...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > In true meditation the meditator and the object of meditation are
                            no
                            > longer present.
                            > If there is intention to meditate then this intention, this doing,
                            > is coming from a doer. It comes from the concept of
                            separation, "ME".
                            > When meditation happens there is no one to whom it happens, no
                            > happener making it happen.
                            > Such moments cannot be brought about by methods, techniques or
                            > practices as these are all ego based, based upon the idea that one
                            > is not already existence itself.
                            > The impulse to meditate arises when the action of seeking is
                            > believed to be coming from a seeker, from "otherness", and this in
                            > turn creates something to be sought. Seeking is an activity, NOT
                            an
                            > entity, in consciousness.
                            > That which the seeking arises from is what is being sought. When
                            > this is intuitively understood no deliberate attempt to meditate
                            can
                            > arise as the impulse to do so is no longer present, having been
                            > severed at the root by the realisation that there is only Oneness,
                            > that one is already what was being sought.
                            > This is true meditation, there is no longer a meditator, simply
                            > meditation happening.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "T."
                            > <jedsgirl522@y...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Okay!  I tried what you suggested.  First - my mind was of
                            course,
                            > > pretty loud and busy.  I'm sure you expected that.  I  just
                            > listened
                            > > to it and took some "mental notes".  Didn't seem really chaotic -

                            > > just busy.
                            > >
                            > > Then I tried the counting technique - and I fell asleep the
                            first
                            > > time (dang!!) BUT - I tried the counting technique again tonight
                            > and
                            > > although I did a lot of thinking (dang!!) I just did what you
                            > > suggested and mentally said "thinking" and went back to
                            counting. 
                            > > I'm not sure that I accomplished any sort of medatative state -
                            > > however I was PLEASED to see that when I opened my eyes, 8
                            minutes
                            > > had passed when I was SURE it would be only 3 or 4.  So, that
                            was
                            > > GOOD.
                            > >
                            > > I felt pretty relaxed and my hands and feet had a slight tingle
                            and
                            > > I was surprised at how LONG it took to get to 10 (thinking!!
                            LOL) -
                            > > so, all in all I feel like it was a good experience.   I will
                            > > continue to use this method and keep you updated. 
                            > >
                            > > Looking forward to my next lesson!  *wink* and THANK YOU for
                            taking
                            > > the time with me - to teach me.  I really appreciate you!
                            > >
                            > > Trina
                            > >
                            > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bob Hart
                            > > <hartbd_62521@y...> wrote:
                            > > > Hi Trina, try this, 1. first for 5 min just sit and watch what
                            > > goes on in your mind, don't try and do anything, just observe,
                            eyes
                            > > closed go ahead and do it now._____________________ Good what
                            did
                            > > you see? what did you hear? there probably was a lot going on in
                            > > your head right? OK  lesson 2. for 5 min choose one of these
                            > > practices, on the out breath count 1 every out breath count
                            untill
                            > > you get to 10 then start over ,, eyes closed both practices this
                            > one
                            > > just say breathing in as you breat in and breathing out as you
                            > > breate out. now try that for 5 min. go ahead and try it.  What
                            > > happen? Did you find that there wasn't room in your head for all
                            > the
                            > > chatter this time?     Most of the time you can only think of
                            one
                            > > think at a time so when you pratice one of these your mind
                            chatter
                            > > should cease. If you find your self losing track of were you are
                            > > just go back to your practice. When any thoughts come just say
                            > > thinking thinking go back to your practice. Try this and get
                            back
                            > > with me please.
                            > > >  Thanks Trina.
                            > > > Namaste Bob Hart



                          • Bob Hart
                            Hi Trina, i m glad you had a good experience. Keep practaceing i ll send you a new meditation in a week of so. The whole idea of meditation is simplly to quiet
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jan 27, 2005
                              Hi Trina, i'm glad you had a good experience. Keep practaceing i'll send you a new meditation in a week of so. The whole idea of meditation is simplly to quiet the chatter in the mind. That doesn't sound like much but it is enormus. Namaste Bob Hart
                            • Bob Hart
                              HI Trina, Bob Hart here. I learned how to meditate through books audio tapes and recently in person in a meditation class. There are thousands of types of
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jan 27, 2005
                                HI Trina, Bob Hart here. I learned how to meditate through books audio tapes and recently in person in a meditation class. There are thousands of types of meditation and most of them are good.  Namaste Bob Hart
                              • Bob Hart
                                Hi Sri Nithy Swabav,I checked out the site you recommended and really liked what it had to say I ll go back when I have more time. Namaste Bob Hart
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jan 27, 2005
                                  Hi Sri Nithy Swabav,I checked out the site you recommended and really liked what it had to say I'll go back when I have more time.  Namaste Bob Hart
                                • T.
                                  ??? I just really want to say Thank You myself to those of you who have taken the time to share with me. Trina ... doing, ... one ... in ... Oneness, ...
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jan 27, 2005
                                    ???

                                    I just really want to say Thank You myself to those of you who have
                                    taken the time to share with me.

                                    Trina


                                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sarif mir
                                    <sarifmir@y...> wrote:
                                    > Thanks trina
                                    > sarifmir
                                    >
                                    > "T." <jedsgirl522@y...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > How did you learn how to meditate?
                                    >
                                    > Trina
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "n0by"
                                    > <n0by4you@y...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > In true meditation the meditator and the object of meditation are
                                    > no
                                    > > longer present.
                                    > > If there is intention to meditate then this intention, this
                                    doing,
                                    > > is coming from a doer. It comes from the concept of
                                    > separation, "ME".
                                    > > When meditation happens there is no one to whom it happens, no
                                    > > happener making it happen.
                                    > > Such moments cannot be brought about by methods, techniques or
                                    > > practices as these are all ego based, based upon the idea that
                                    one
                                    > > is not already existence itself.
                                    > > The impulse to meditate arises when the action of seeking is
                                    > > believed to be coming from a seeker, from "otherness", and this
                                    in
                                    > > turn creates something to be sought. Seeking is an activity, NOT
                                    > an
                                    > > entity, in consciousness.
                                    > > That which the seeking arises from is what is being sought. When
                                    > > this is intuitively understood no deliberate attempt to meditate
                                    > can
                                    > > arise as the impulse to do so is no longer present, having been
                                    > > severed at the root by the realisation that there is only
                                    Oneness,
                                    > > that one is already what was being sought.
                                    > > This is true meditation, there is no longer a meditator, simply
                                    > > meditation happening.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "T."
                                    > > <jedsgirl522@y...> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Okay! I tried what you suggested. First - my mind was of
                                    > course,
                                    > > > pretty loud and busy. I'm sure you expected that. I just
                                    > > listened
                                    > > > to it and took some "mental notes". Didn't seem really
                                    chaotic -
                                    >
                                    > > > just busy.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Then I tried the counting technique - and I fell asleep the
                                    > first
                                    > > > time (dang!!) BUT - I tried the counting technique again
                                    tonight
                                    > > and
                                    > > > although I did a lot of thinking (dang!!) I just did what you
                                    > > > suggested and mentally said "thinking" and went back to
                                    > counting.
                                    > > > I'm not sure that I accomplished any sort of medatative state -
                                    > > > however I was PLEASED to see that when I opened my eyes, 8
                                    > minutes
                                    > > > had passed when I was SURE it would be only 3 or 4. So, that
                                    > was
                                    > > > GOOD.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I felt pretty relaxed and my hands and feet had a slight tingle
                                    > and
                                    > > > I was surprised at how LONG it took to get to 10 (thinking!!
                                    > LOL) -
                                    > > > so, all in all I feel like it was a good experience. I will
                                    > > > continue to use this method and keep you updated.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Looking forward to my next lesson! *wink* and THANK YOU for
                                    > taking
                                    > > > the time with me - to teach me. I really appreciate you!
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Trina
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bob Hart
                                    > > > <hartbd_62521@y...> wrote:
                                    > > > > Hi Trina, try this, 1. first for 5 min just sit and watch
                                    what
                                    > > > goes on in your mind, don't try and do anything, just observe,
                                    > eyes
                                    > > > closed go ahead and do it now._____________________ Good what
                                    > did
                                    > > > you see? what did you hear? there probably was a lot going on
                                    in
                                    > > > your head right? OK lesson 2. for 5 min choose one of these
                                    > > > practices, on the out breath count 1 every out breath count
                                    > untill
                                    > > > you get to 10 then start over ,, eyes closed both practices
                                    this
                                    > > one
                                    > > > just say breathing in as you breat in and breathing out as you
                                    > > > breate out. now try that for 5 min. go ahead and try it. What
                                    > > > happen? Did you find that there wasn't room in your head for
                                    all
                                    > > the
                                    > > > chatter this time? Most of the time you can only think of
                                    > one
                                    > > > think at a time so when you pratice one of these your mind
                                    > chatter
                                    > > > should cease. If you find your self losing track of were you
                                    are
                                    > > > just go back to your practice. When any thoughts come just say
                                    > > > thinking thinking go back to your practice. Try this and get
                                    > back
                                    > > > with me please.
                                    > > > > Thanks Trina.
                                    > > > > Namaste Bob Hart
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
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                                    > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
                                  • T.
                                    *snappy salute* You got it, chief! Thanks AGAIN!! A chatter-free mind sounds like a GREAT start to me!! Trina ... send you a new meditation in a week of so.
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jan 27, 2005
                                      *snappy salute*

                                      You got it, chief!

                                      Thanks AGAIN!! A chatter-free mind sounds like a GREAT start to me!!

                                      Trina


                                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bob Hart
                                      <hartbd_62521@y...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hi Trina, i'm glad you had a good experience. Keep practaceing i'll
                                      send you a new meditation in a week of so. The whole idea of
                                      meditation is simplly to quiet the chatter in the mind. That doesn't
                                      sound like much but it is enormus. Namaste Bob Hart
                                    • Savitri &Kamalakar Rambhatla
                                      If stopping hte inner chattering is so easy then meditation should be a piece of cake. In order to stop inner mental chattering, one meditation technique is to
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Jan 27, 2005
                                        If stopping hte inner chattering is so easy then meditation should be a piece of cake. In order to stop inner mental chattering, one meditation technique is to meditate with a mahamantra CD. This CD has 20 minutes of humming with eyes closed and the eyeballs must be made not to move by exerting presuure on it from inside. As you hum deeply and loudly you will generate a feeling of being hollow like banboo and this sound pervades you and inner chattering will stop. After 20 minutees you can then be silent and focus on your heart center ( Anahata chakra) and the music will stop after 10 minutes. This meditation technique from Swami Nithyanada is so powerful that it will transform the being.
                                         
                                        jai Gurudev
                                        Kamalakar

                                        "T." <jedsgirl522@...> wrote:

                                        ???

                                        I just really want to say Thank You myself to those of you who have
                                        taken the time to share with me.

                                        Trina


                                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sarif mir
                                        <sarifmir@y...> wrote:
                                        > Thanks trina
                                        > sarifmir
                                        >
                                        > "T." <jedsgirl522@y...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > How did you learn how to meditate?
                                        >
                                        > Trina
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "n0by"
                                        > <n0by4you@y...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > In true meditation the meditator and the object of meditation are
                                        > no
                                        > > longer present.
                                        > > If there is intention to meditate then this intention, this
                                        doing,
                                        > > is coming from a doer. It comes from the concept of
                                        > separation, "ME".
                                        > > When meditation happens there is no one to whom it happens, no
                                        > > happener making it happen.
                                        > > Such moments cannot be brought about by methods, techniques or
                                        > > practices as these are all ego based, based upon the idea that
                                        one
                                        > > is not already existence itself.
                                        > > The impulse to meditate arises when the action of seeking is
                                        > > believed to be coming from a seeker, from "otherness", and this
                                        in
                                        > > turn creates something to be sought. Seeking is an activity, NOT
                                        > an
                                        > > entity, in consciousness.
                                        > > That which the seeking arises from is what is being sought. When
                                        > > this is intuitively understood no deliberate attempt to meditate
                                        > can
                                        > > arise as the impulse to do so is no longer present, having been
                                        > > severed at the root by the realisation that there is only
                                        Oneness,
                                        > > that one is already what was being sought.
                                        > > This is true meditation, there is no longer a meditator, simply
                                        > > meditation happening.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "T."
                                        > > <jedsgirl522@y...> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Okay!  I tried what you suggested.  First - my mind was of
                                        > course,
                                        > > > pretty loud and busy.  I'm sure you expected that.  I  just
                                        > > listened
                                        > > > to it and took some "mental notes".  Didn't seem really
                                        chaotic -
                                        >
                                        > > > just busy.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Then I tried the counting technique - and I fell asleep the
                                        > first
                                        > > > time (dang!!) BUT - I tried the counting technique again
                                        tonight
                                        > > and
                                        > > > although I did a lot of thinking (dang!!) I just did what you
                                        > > > suggested and mentally said "thinking" and went back to
                                        > counting. 
                                        > > > I'm not sure that I accomplished any sort of medatative state -
                                        > > > however I was PLEASED to see that when I opened my eyes, 8
                                        > minutes
                                        > > > had passed when I was SURE it would be only 3 or 4.  So, that
                                        > was
                                        > > > GOOD.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I felt pretty relaxed and my hands and feet had a slight tingle
                                        > and
                                        > > > I was surprised at how LONG it took to get to 10 (thinking!!
                                        > LOL) -
                                        > > > so, all in all I feel like it was a good experience.   I will
                                        > > > continue to use this method and keep you updated. 
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Looking forward to my next lesson!  *wink* and THANK YOU for
                                        > taking
                                        > > > the time with me - to teach me.  I really appreciate you!
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Trina
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bob Hart
                                        > > > <hartbd_62521@y...> wrote:
                                        > > > > Hi Trina, try this, 1. first for 5 min just sit and watch
                                        what
                                        > > > goes on in your mind, don't try and do anything, just observe,
                                        > eyes
                                        > > > closed go ahead and do it now._____________________ Good what
                                        > did
                                        > > > you see? what did you hear? there probably was a lot going on
                                        in
                                        > > > your head right? OK  lesson 2. for 5 min choose one of these
                                        > > > practices, on the out breath count 1 every out breath count
                                        > untill
                                        > > > you get to 10 then start over ,, eyes closed both practices
                                        this
                                        > > one
                                        > > > just say breathing in as you breat in and breathing out as you
                                        > > > breate out. now try that for 5 min. go ahead and try it.  What
                                        > > > happen? Did you find that there wasn't room in your head for
                                        all
                                        > > the
                                        > > > chatter this time?     Most of the time you can only think of
                                        > one
                                        > > > think at a time so when you pratice one of these your mind
                                        > chatter
                                        > > > should cease. If you find your self losing track of were you
                                        are
                                        > > > just go back to your practice. When any thoughts come just say
                                        > > > thinking thinking go back to your practice. Try this and get
                                        > back
                                        > > > with me please.
                                        > > > >  Thanks Trina.
                                        > > > > Namaste Bob Hart
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
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                                      • Bob Hart
                                        Namaste Jai. Meditation is easy . It does take a lot ot practice through. I like what you have written. Bob Hart
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Jan 28, 2005
                                            Namaste Jai.  Meditation is easy . It does take a lot ot practice through. I like what you have written. Bob Hart                                                                                                    
                                          If stopping hte inner chattering is so easy then meditation should be a piece of cake. In order to stop inner mental chattering, one meditation technique is to meditate with a mahamantra CD. This CD has 20 minutes of humming with eyes closed and the eyeballs must be made not to move by exerting presuure on it from inside. As you hum deeply and loudly you will generate a feeling of being hollow like banboo and this sound pervades you and inner chattering will stop. After 20 minutees you can then be silent and focus on your heart center ( Anahata chakra) and the music will stop after 10 minutes. This meditation technique from Swami Nithyanada is so powerful that it will transform the being.
                                           
                                          jai Gurudev
                                          Kamalakar
                                                                                                
                                        • �:-)
                                          Without the willingness to pass the most difficult situations, I would have never learned anything - therefore you read nothing but stories and have the chance
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Jan 31, 2005

                                            Without the willingness to pass the
                                            most difficult situations, I would have
                                            never learned anything - therefore
                                            you read nothing but stories and
                                            have the chance to join a gathering,
                                            without any support for your expectations.

                                            The core of all ''learning'' is the destruction
                                            of expectations. By this you recognize
                                            a true from a false teacher: a false teacher
                                            feeds your expectations with flatteries,
                                            promises, lies - a true teacher creates
                                            nothing but frustrations - either you learn
                                            - or you escape in any sorts of fantasies.

                                            Now - if you read this example - it's up
                                            to you to decide: ''are these fantasies
                                            or a description of living reality?''

                                             

                                            Lermoos, Ehrwald, Biberwier

                                            click thumbnail to start the show


                                            Saturday morning 5.00 a.m.. Munich, 10 degrees below zero. 10 Celsius degrees minus.. The cover from the car's chimney is frozen. One hour runs the engine in our street, in front of our house, to warm up the room, to free the ice and snow from the windows. With a broom I push the snow from the roof. After one and half hour the car is ready for the road.

                                            In Garmisch Partenkirchen the first sun baptizes the ''Kramer-Spitze'' in white golden light.

                                            The first villages in Austria, Ehrwald, Leermoos are even colder: 14 degrees Celsius below zero. It's hard to drive. The parking places are fully frozen, everywhere ice and snow. With the ESP (electronic stability program) in the front-wheel drive the car runs marvellous.

                                            Bus loads of young people enjoy this ski week ends. Around 30 big busses bring the adventurous youngsters with snow boards and skies.

                                            Therefore many people line up in front of three cashpoints. I have to wait nearly an hour. Then at 11.00 a.m. I get my ticket for 28 Euro, 3 Euro less than the full day ticket. From 9.00 a.m. till 4.00 p.m. many different mountain elevators pump the sportsmen on the top.

                                            Skiing is hard work. At noon I have to rest in the car and cook tea. To do this, I have to put off the ski shoes.. In the living area of my motor home I move without shoes. To take of f and later on again the ski shoes is hard work too. It's hard to walk in heavy ski shoes. It's even hard find out under four trousers with two shirts, sweater, woollen jacket the machin to pee.


                                            My job in Munich is easy to do. Four days only I will work in the future. So my week ends are three days long. These week end bring new lust for life.

                                            When I stay too long at home and in the job with reduced energy there is danger, to fall in depressive mood. Mind starts to doubt all and everything. Hurting questions are hunting me: ''For what all these efforts? Now, when my child earns money for herself, can't I let fall me deeper and deeper, until I'm down and out? Out of the rat race for money, reputation, a little bit of luxury? Can't I sell both my cars? Is it not enough, to sit at home and watch the day go by?''

                                            On top of the hill, finally in 2040 Meters above sea level, the beauty of these mountains is not to describe! Sun warms the body. Clouds in the valley mirror the white sun with blending rays. White snow crystals flow through the air like diamond needles. Each shining snow needle dances in an abundance of light.

                                            On the top of the hill I feel again, for what I'm still fighting for. My beard is full of ice. The ice wind hinders to drive down to the valley. The only time I drive the long way down, I rest in the car, cook water, prepare tea and sip the hot brew slowly.

                                            Back in the sun above the clouds in the valley the body tanks warmth. After all I have to drive down. In Ehrwald a sauna bath heats up my body, afterwards a hot soup in the car does the same. The night can come. 10.00 p.m,. running engine and gas oven together warm up the car inside to 20 degrees. 12 degrees minus outside. Bed time.

                                            Sunday, 5.a.m.: the yellow half moon shines with cold light into the windows. 18 degrees below Zero outside, eight degrees plus inside. The ventilator of the gas oven I switch on to the second gear. With this I start the engine too. Tea for breakfast and around an hour full heating the temperature inside climbs up to 14 degrees plus.

                                            This cold Sunday I drive to the next little village: Biberwier. The same mountain I climbed up end of August last year. Today I only buy a half day ticket - till 1.00 p.m. My bones are getting older: on Valentine's day, two weeks from now, I celebrate my 57 birthday.

                                            A ready made Chinese soup, coffee and cake give me the energy, to drive home. The traffic jam towards Munich is not yet thick. When I come home and park the car in front of our home, Mimamai comes home on her bike too. She learns this week end for her job: ''how to save life?''

                                            I admire her discipline. So thankful I feel for all her love. In time of pain, in the dentist chair or in the ice cold chair, bringing me up in the freezing mountain morning, I hypnotize myself with a most consoling imagination: "We lay in bed. She warms my belly with her back."

                                             


                                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "T."
                                            wrote:

                                            How did you learn how to meditate?

                                            Trina




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