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Meditation Insight - shaping our thoughts

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  • Tony Osime
    During my session today, I had some insights about our mind chatter. I wonder if anyone has any comments to add? As I listened to my usual mind chatter during
    Message 1 of 2 , Dec 4, 2004
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      During my session today, I had some insights about our mind chatter. I
      wonder if anyone has any comments to add?

      As I listened to my usual mind chatter during the period when my body
      was relaxing sufficiently for me to start the deeper part of my session,
      I had this mechanical picture of a thought held in one hand while the
      other hand tried to attach alternate thoughts. If the new thought did
      not fit, it would be discarded and another thought would be picked up.
      This process would continue until some sort of conclusion was reached
      and the modified thought would now be discarded in favor of a new
      thought to be worked on.

      My sense is that this is a continuous process going on 24 hours a day.
      During the night we turn off the thought recording mechanism because
      this makes the process less efficient.

      The insight I had was that since we can see the process of thought
      development, we can influence the choice of thought to attach. We can
      actually train ourselves to be better thinkers...Maybe not a good thing
      to do while meditating!!!

      My internet connection will go in a few minutes.

      The second insight is that the quality of meditation without mind
      chatter is very different from when there is mind chatter. Without mind
      chatter adds depth. With mind chatter adds breadth.

      ...Tony
    • Jeff Belyea
      Tony - This sort of thoughtful analysis, while fun and entertaining, and not without some value, is not meditation in the classic way. One does not think (mind
      Message 2 of 2 , Dec 5, 2004
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        Tony -

        This sort of thoughtful analysis,
        while fun and entertaining, and
        not without some value, is not
        meditation in the classic way.

        One does not think (mind chatter)
        their way to the meditative experience,
        and one does not simply not not think.

        While one may use tools and
        techniques as a road map, but they
        eventually must give way in order
        for the meditative experience to
        come in its subtle yet startling
        way of bringing an entirely new
        perspective on how we "know"
        and who we are in this life.

        One must disappear entirely, with
        no concern for or attachment to
        the process, either mind chatter
        or not, or silence or not, or phenomenon
        (the experience of light, sound, taste...)
        or not, before one is in "meditation".

        The meditative way of being is
        a spontaneous way of existing
        in the world, without being "of the world".
        As soon as we stick a mind probe in,
        we are back to our senses and
        out of meditation.

        To ask, "Am I thinking or not thinking"
        is thinking. And thinking or not thinking
        is not meditation.

        Ummmmm?

        Maybe Sandeep's succinct response
        said it all, and my attempts to clarify
        are unnecessarily muddying the water.

        Enjoy the day.

        Seize the moment.

        Then disappear.



        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Tony
        Osime" <tony.osime@f...> wrote:
        > During my session today, I had some insights about our mind
        chatter. I
        > wonder if anyone has any comments to add?
        >
        > As I listened to my usual mind chatter during the period when
        my body
        > was relaxing sufficiently for me to start the deeper part of my
        session,
        > I had this mechanical picture of a thought held in one hand
        while the
        > other hand tried to attach alternate thoughts. If the new thought
        did
        > not fit, it would be discarded and another thought would be
        picked up.
        > This process would continue until some sort of conclusion
        was reached
        > and the modified thought would now be discarded in favor of a
        new
        > thought to be worked on.
        >
        > My sense is that this is a continuous process going on 24
        hours a day.
        > During the night we turn off the thought recording mechanism
        because
        > this makes the process less efficient.
        >
        > The insight I had was that since we can see the process of
        thought
        > development, we can influence the choice of thought to attach.
        We can
        > actually train ourselves to be better thinkers...Maybe not a good
        thing
        > to do while meditating!!!
        >
        > My internet connection will go in a few minutes.
        >
        > The second insight is that the quality of meditation without
        mind
        > chatter is very different from when there is mind chatter.
        Without mind
        > chatter adds depth. With mind chatter adds breadth.
        >
        > ...Tony
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