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Spirits, Demons, entities while Meditating

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  • wisslewj
    Dear Meditation Society members, I have a few quick questions for you if you have the time. First off, I thank you for all the free info. It is quite handy.
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 24, 2004
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      Dear Meditation Society members,

      I have a few quick questions for you if you have the time. First
      off, I thank you for all the free info. It is quite handy. :)
      Just a quick blurb about me: (without a religious debate lol) I am a
      christian that has found church (not christianity) lacking. In other
      words I believe most churches have become modern day pharisees. They
      follow a bunch of rules with stoic resolve but have no real spiritual
      (experiential and closeness) side with god. They also have no
      ability to simply see TRUTH wherever it may be. If it lies outside
      their preconceived notions of god then it is of satan. (the "flat
      earth" is a great example of this ignorance) Anyway that said, I do
      believe that Jesus is what the bible says he was. But I believe that
      because it was one of the few "revealed" experiences I have had with
      god. In general god feels far away most of the time, even though I
      know he isnt. Thats where you come in. :)

      I have thoroughly studied the marvals of the brain, most of the
      religions of the world, and practices such as meditation, kundalini,
      astral travel, lucid dreaming, miracle healing etc etc. you name it.
      (I am a knowledge devourer by nauture but knowledge ISNT wisdom...as
      I am sure you all know) I believe that all this "mystical" stuff
      isnt really evil as many christians maintain but more that it is
      neutral in respect---tools persay. (in fact, to the neutral observer,
      christianity looks no different than the occult--- god, spirit in us,
      miracles etc) Most of these "tools" can be documented by science to
      exist and to be beneficial on our bodies---though science doesnt
      understand the HOW in alot of it. (for example the theta waves
      produced in deep meditation have been shown to be extremely
      beneficial to the healing and energizing of the human body)The brain
      is an awesome thing!! That said it would seem god has given us
      humans the biological or intrinsic abillity to reach higher states of
      consiousness etc. WHY would he allow this if we were not to use it?
      Hence my reason for saying I feel it is neutral and can be used
      to "see" clearer. (just like sex can be good/evil or prayer even)

      OK. So here is my question. (I ramble a bit lol) All of the
      practicionars of these things tote the benefits to meditation, astral
      travel, kundalini, lucid dreaming etc. BUT, most also speak of
      potential "dangers". Now without being religous specific the issues
      range about encountering evil---satan, demons, "low level" spirits,
      disembodied entities, elementals, etc.....whatever you wanna call
      them is irrelevent to me. My point is that there seems to be a
      general warning that as you enter the spiritual realms you WILL
      encounter this stuff. Is this true? I have read reports of
      paranormal activity occuring in regular life, being tormented
      by "demons", you name it. My question is, what is the reality of
      this? The possibility? I seek god with my whole heart and soul and
      desire to be transformed into a holy, godly, and pure individual. I
      want to serve and be filled with the love of god. (again please no
      deabate on WHO that god is or isnt) But I am not perfect by any means
      and I still have evil, or impurity if you will, within me that I can
      recognize. (non loving characteristics at times) That said, I dont
      seek to draw more evil into me or around me ya know.

      Some of the more terrifying reports I have read were with astral
      projection. (hooded things staring at you as you exit, screaming etc)
      My opinion is that if these things are real, that one should be
      prepared for them. How would one prepare? I wuld assume the ability
      to have a clear will and mind would be essential so as to force any
      encountered evil away? Again, how does one do this? Just as we
      wouldnt stroll into a battle without training first I dont believe we
      should wander willy-nilly into the realm of the unknown without be
      trained and properly prepared first. Well anyway, thanx for listening
      to me ramble. lol. I would greatly appreciate any advice and/or
      opinions as it is my desire to reach the wisdom and love of god not
      the knowledge and laws of men. Be blessed.
      Jeff
    • Thomas R. Strauman
      Jeff, I can understand what you say about religion and mysticism. I purchased a book about how to with psychic phenomenon. To be frank, I have not read it.
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 24, 2004
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        Jeff,
         
        I can understand what you say about religion and mysticism.  I purchased a book about "how to" with psychic phenomenon.  To be frank, I have not read it.  Mainly because at the same time I purchased a book on meditation, Buddhism and Zen.  I thought that before I even started playing with something like that, I should know myself better.
         
        That said, medititation in it purest form is not religion or paranormal.  It is a tool, by which one learns/discovers/experiences reality and enlightenment.
         
        I imagine it can also be used as a tool to experience a lot more, but taking a more Zen approach, it is a more passive thing.
         
        I do know that I will not risk encountering any entities unless I am fully strong enough to deal with them.
         
        And the direction that my meditation has taken has not been toward such as that, but rather with a focus on forgiveness and lovingkindness.
         
        So, I guess that I am saying that a meditation-like state to experience the paranormal is not really meditation.
         
        Tom
      • wisslewj
        (I hope i am responding right here lol as I have never done this.) Tom, i agree it is more than likely neutral and should increase love etc. But the fact is
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 24, 2004
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          (I hope i am responding right here lol as I have never done this.)

          Tom, i agree it is more than likely neutral and should increase love
          etc. But the fact is that eventually as you get deeper into
          meditation, it seems you will run into "stuff". I just want to know
          how people prepare that have encountered this. Ya know, advice from
          the front lines so to speak. But thanx for your input and opinion. :)
          Jeff

          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas R.
          Strauman" <tomstro@c...> wrote:
          > Jeff,
          >
          > I can understand what you say about religion and mysticism. I
          purchased a
          > book about "how to" with psychic phenomenon. To be frank, I have
          not read
          > it. Mainly because at the same time I purchased a book on
          meditation,
          > Buddhism and Zen. I thought that before I even started playing with
          > something like that, I should know myself better.
          >
          > That said, medititation in it purest form is not religion or
          paranormal. It
          > is a tool, by which one learns/discovers/experiences reality and
          > enlightenment.
          >
          > I imagine it can also be used as a tool to experience a lot more,
          but taking
          > a more Zen approach, it is a more passive thing.
          >
          > I do know that I will not risk encountering any entities unless I
          am fully
          > strong enough to deal with them.
          >
          > And the direction that my meditation has taken has not been toward
          such as
          > that, but rather with a focus on forgiveness and lovingkindness.
          >
          > So, I guess that I am saying that a meditation-like state to
          experience the
          > paranormal is not really meditation.
          >
          > Tom
        • medit8ionsociety
          ... Yo Jeff, First of all, welcome, and thanks for posting this interesting and thought provoking letter. But maybe that s exactly what the problem is.
          Message 4 of 4 , Nov 24, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "wisslewj"
            <wisslewj@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear Meditation Society members,
            >
            > I have a few quick questions for you if you have the time. First
            > off, I thank you for all the free info. It is quite handy. :)
            > Just a quick blurb about me: (without a religious debate lol) I am a
            > christian that has found church (not christianity) lacking. In other
            > words I believe most churches have become modern day pharisees. They
            > follow a bunch of rules with stoic resolve but have no real spiritual
            > (experiential and closeness) side with god. They also have no
            > ability to simply see TRUTH wherever it may be. If it lies outside
            > their preconceived notions of god then it is of satan. (the "flat
            > earth" is a great example of this ignorance) Anyway that said, I do
            > believe that Jesus is what the bible says he was. But I believe that
            > because it was one of the few "revealed" experiences I have had with
            > god. In general god feels far away most of the time, even though I
            > know he isnt. Thats where you come in. :)
            >
            > I have thoroughly studied the marvals of the brain, most of the
            > religions of the world, and practices such as meditation, kundalini,
            > astral travel, lucid dreaming, miracle healing etc etc. you name it.
            > (I am a knowledge devourer by nauture but knowledge ISNT wisdom...as
            > I am sure you all know) I believe that all this "mystical" stuff
            > isnt really evil as many christians maintain but more that it is
            > neutral in respect---tools persay. (in fact, to the neutral observer,
            > christianity looks no different than the occult--- god, spirit in us,
            > miracles etc) Most of these "tools" can be documented by science to
            > exist and to be beneficial on our bodies---though science doesnt
            > understand the HOW in alot of it. (for example the theta waves
            > produced in deep meditation have been shown to be extremely
            > beneficial to the healing and energizing of the human body)The brain
            > is an awesome thing!! That said it would seem god has given us
            > humans the biological or intrinsic abillity to reach higher states of
            > consiousness etc. WHY would he allow this if we were not to use it?
            > Hence my reason for saying I feel it is neutral and can be used
            > to "see" clearer. (just like sex can be good/evil or prayer even)
            >
            > OK. So here is my question. (I ramble a bit lol) All of the
            > practicionars of these things tote the benefits to meditation, astral
            > travel, kundalini, lucid dreaming etc. BUT, most also speak of
            > potential "dangers". Now without being religous specific the issues
            > range about encountering evil---satan, demons, "low level" spirits,
            > disembodied entities, elementals, etc.....whatever you wanna call
            > them is irrelevent to me. My point is that there seems to be a
            > general warning that as you enter the spiritual realms you WILL
            > encounter this stuff. Is this true? I have read reports of
            > paranormal activity occuring in regular life, being tormented
            > by "demons", you name it. My question is, what is the reality of
            > this? The possibility? I seek god with my whole heart and soul and
            > desire to be transformed into a holy, godly, and pure individual. I
            > want to serve and be filled with the love of god. (again please no
            > deabate on WHO that god is or isnt) But I am not perfect by any means
            > and I still have evil, or impurity if you will, within me that I can
            > recognize. (non loving characteristics at times) That said, I dont
            > seek to draw more evil into me or around me ya know.
            >
            > Some of the more terrifying reports I have read were with astral
            > projection. (hooded things staring at you as you exit, screaming etc)
            > My opinion is that if these things are real, that one should be
            > prepared for them. How would one prepare? I wuld assume the ability
            > to have a clear will and mind would be essential so as to force any
            > encountered evil away? Again, how does one do this? Just as we
            > wouldnt stroll into a battle without training first I dont believe we
            > should wander willy-nilly into the realm of the unknown without be
            > trained and properly prepared first. Well anyway, thanx for listening
            > to me ramble. lol. I would greatly appreciate any advice and/or
            > opinions as it is my desire to reach the wisdom and love of god not
            > the knowledge and laws of men. Be blessed.
            > Jeff

            Yo Jeff,
            First of all, welcome, and thanks for posting this interesting and
            thought provoking letter. But maybe that's exactly what the "problem"
            is. Perhaps we should be stilling and silently witnessing the
            thoughts, not provoking them. To many, it's not fashionable or PC
            these days to say that effort is "good", but I think that for the
            great majority of those who have found what you and we all seek,
            effort 'pre-seeded' the effortless effort. And meditation is a great
            seed planting device. BTW, much of this was just pointed to in an
            excellent post by another non-church saluting Christian, PapaJeff...
            http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/meditationsocietyofamerica/message/13409
            Now, as to worrying about scary higher realms, demons, evils, and
            other "potential dangers", how can anything possibly top the physical
            world we seem to be living in? When we are stuck with nothing but
            reactivity to our inner and outer environment only with our limited 5
            senses, and our everwavering emotions and chattering mind, can we ever
            not be afraid? So, I answer your question with a firm YES!...These
            "things are real". And here's where meditation/self inquiry/spiritual
            practice comes in. These are the tools by which we, as the Army says,
            become all we can be. And with meditation as our tool and effort,
            slowly and suddenly we gain the ability to act, and not just react.
            And the first and only action is simply paying attention. And by
            Grace, with perfect attention, we see that we have always been, and
            are, and always will be the "holy, godly, and pure individual" we have
            been seeking to be. And ... we live happily ever after.
            Peace and blessings,
            Bob
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