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  • jack
    i have been mediting daily since may im up to 45 mins a day even though i make upsetting decsions that leave me feeling bad its takes me so very long to feel
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 25, 2004
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      i have been mediting daily since may
      im up to 45 mins a day
      even though i make upsetting decsions that leave me feeling bad
      its takes me so very long to feel good again
      i have gotten such clarity and awareness from meditating and made
      such changes in my life since may
      i have a long list of benefits from my meditation
      but i truly seek help with the bad choices that i make that pull me
      in the gutter
      thanks for giving me the oppurtunity to tell where i am with my
      meditation at the present moment
      jack in kentucky
    • Jeff Belyea
      Jack - As you mature in meditation you may find that you are better able to own your upsetting choices and see more clearly that they are conscious choices
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 26, 2004
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        Jack -

        As you mature in meditation
        you may find that you are better
        able to "own" your upsetting
        choices and see more clearly
        that they are conscious choices
        with some short-term benefits
        or pleasure (otherwise you
        wouldn't choose them), and
        which then produce long-term
        bad feelings...and simply
        make the calm decision to
        choose more wisely.

        Meditation can and often
        does produce a new
        sense of clarity and even
        for some a "startling wisdom",
        a shift in perspective about
        problem issues in life.

        The calm that meditation
        brings; the quieting of the
        inner chatter, will eventually
        bring with it a renewed clarity
        about life and your perspective
        on it. With clarity, you will look
        at the choices differently -
        more holistically (a sense
        of how they effect the rest
        of your life and relationships).

        So, in a way, meditation will
        take you there - or at least
        will open the door for you
        to choose to produce balance
        in your life, more consciously.

        Hope this helps,

        Jeff




        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jack"
        <hjackdavis@a...> wrote:
        > i have been mediting daily since may
        > im up to 45 mins a day
        > even though i make upsetting decsions that leave me feeling
        bad
        > its takes me so very long to feel good again
        > i have gotten such clarity and awareness from meditating and
        made
        > such changes in my life since may
        > i have a long list of benefits from my meditation
        > but i truly seek help with the bad choices that i make that pull
        me
        > in the gutter
        > thanks for giving me the oppurtunity to tell where i am with my
        > meditation at the present moment
        > jack in kentucky
      • medit8ionsociety
        ... Dear Jack, Here s a technique from our web site that has helped many who have desired to make better choices, be good , get rid of negative
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 26, 2004
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          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jack"
          <hjackdavis@a...> wrote:
          > i have been mediting daily since may
          > im up to 45 mins a day
          > even though i make upsetting decsions that leave me feeling bad
          > its takes me so very long to feel good again
          > i have gotten such clarity and awareness from meditating and made
          > such changes in my life since may
          > i have a long list of benefits from my meditation
          > but i truly seek help with the bad choices that i make that pull me
          > in the gutter
          > thanks for giving me the oppurtunity to tell where i am with my
          > meditation at the present moment
          > jack in kentucky

          Dear Jack,
          Here's a technique from our web site that has helped many who have
          desired to make better choices, be "good", get rid of negative
          characteristics, etc. It can be found on our Guided Meditations CD
          and in the Archive section of our web site;
          http://www.meditationsociety.com
          I hope it is beneficial to you.
          Peace and blessings,
          Bob

          The Dalai Lama Meditation
          The Dalai Lama has been acknowledged by Tibetan Buddhists to be a
          reincarnation of the God of Compassion and by the world in general to
          be a Nobel Peace Prize winner but few know him to be a practicing
          meditator. All his life, he has been surrounded by masters of
          meditation and has been initiated into many different techniques. It
          is therefore appropriate that we pay attention when he points out one
          method so valuable that he does it everyday:
          Remember when you were a kid and they often had cartoons where
          someone had a devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other and
          they were whispering into an ear -- one encouraging doing "bad" and
          one doing "good". In a way, that's the basis of the Dalai Lama
          Meditation technique.

          Sit quietly, calmly with eyes closed, as relaxed yet aware as you can
          be. Visualize yourself on the left side of your minds eye as you
          would appear to yourself and others in a moment of impatience. Really
          see this inner vision. Watch your face, observe your body language.
          What does your impatient self look like? On the right side of your
          minds eye, see yourself when you are very patient. What do you look
          like when you have a lifetime of time. As tense as you appeared on
          the left as your impatient self, see yourself as relaxed in your
          patience on the right. Now on the left side, see yourself as you
          appear when you're depressed. Look carefully. How does that make you
          feel? Can you be aware of the aura of doom and gloom you're
          radiating? And then, on the right side of your minds eye, see
          yourself as you are when you're joyous. Merge with that happiness.
          Know how others would see you.

          Continue seeing all the seemingly negative feelings and behaviors on
          the inner left-hand side of your minds eye and the opposite on the
          right. On the left, see yourself as jealous and on the right as how
          you appear when you are truly glad for someone else's sucess or
          happiness. On the left, see the bigoted you and on the right, the all-
          embracing. On the left the mean, on the right the sweet. See the
          stupid you and the brilliant. See the clumsy and the graceful. On the
          left, see the unsatisfied and on the right, the contented.

          Go on and on, becoming familiar with the "you" on the left and the
          opposite "you" on the right. Then see the total "you" who would be
          there on the left if none of the characteristics of the right side
          were present. Now see the "you" who would be the totality of yourself
          with the right side only if none of the behaviors and feelings of the
          left side "you" had ever appeared.

          The Dalai Lama tells us that there is nothing else necessary because
          just by seeing your negative left-side self, you will become so
          disgusted with yourself when you witness yourself acting in any of
          the left side ways that you will automatically cease any of those
          actions and start doing and feeling the right-side actions.
          Eventually, you will become the right-side you exclusively.
          Eventually, you will have peace, compassion, wisdom, good health,
          patience, and all the other glorious aspects of life.

          This technique has the potential to change your life profoundly for
          the better. It is one of the best antidotes for negativity. It is
          consistent with his unlimited compassion that the Dalai Lama has
          shared it with us.
        • jodyrrr
          ... Hey Jack. Have you thought about trying psychotherapy? I truly believe that *everyone* would benefit from the counsel of a good therapist, regardless of
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 30, 2004
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jack"
            <hjackdavis@a...> wrote:
            > i have been mediting daily since may
            > im up to 45 mins a day
            > even though i make upsetting decsions that leave me feeling bad
            > its takes me so very long to feel good again
            > i have gotten such clarity and awareness from meditating and made
            > such changes in my life since may
            > i have a long list of benefits from my meditation
            > but i truly seek help with the bad choices that i make that pull me
            > in the gutter
            > thanks for giving me the oppurtunity to tell where i am with my
            > meditation at the present moment
            > jack in kentucky

            Hey Jack.

            Have you thought about trying psychotherapy?
            I truly believe that *everyone* would benefit
            from the counsel of a good therapist, regardless
            of whether they may be considered a victim of
            a psychopathology.

            The trick is finding a good one, but if and when
            you do, in concert with your meditation, you may
            find the boost you need to get through the rough
            patches we all encounter in our lives (often
            closely related to those rough patches we've
            already been through.)

            --jody.
          • Greg Goode
            ... ===Let me second this! I m very glad to hear favorable recommendations about psychotherapy, since it is fashionable in some recent spiritual quarters to
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 30, 2004
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              At 06:50 PM 8/30/2004 +0000, jodyrrr wrote:

              >Hey Jack.
              >
              >Have you thought about trying psychotherapy?
              >I truly believe that *everyone* would benefit
              >from the counsel of a good therapist, regardless
              >of whether they may be considered a victim of
              >a psychopathology.
              >
              >The trick is finding a good one, but if and when
              >you do, in concert with your meditation, you may
              >find the boost you need to get through the rough
              >patches we all encounter in our lives (often
              >closely related to those rough patches we've
              >already been through.)


              ===Let me second this! I'm very glad to hear
              favorable recommendations about psychotherapy,
              since it is fashionable in some recent spiritual
              quarters to claim that psychotherapy will impede
              spiritual progress. Not true! I know several
              people who left the neo-advaita satsang movement,
              began psychotherapy, and are no longer seeking
              what they sought from satsang.

              --Greg
            • jodyrrr
              ... Absolutely. That s because (and I know that you know this) that what they were seeking in satsang, they were never going to get there. Most folks come to
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 30, 2004
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                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Greg Goode
                <goode@d...> wrote:
                > At 06:50 PM 8/30/2004 +0000, jodyrrr wrote:
                >
                > >Hey Jack.
                > >
                > >Have you thought about trying psychotherapy?
                > >I truly believe that *everyone* would benefit
                > >from the counsel of a good therapist, regardless
                > >of whether they may be considered a victim of
                > >a psychopathology.
                > >
                > >The trick is finding a good one, but if and when
                > >you do, in concert with your meditation, you may
                > >find the boost you need to get through the rough
                > >patches we all encounter in our lives (often
                > >closely related to those rough patches we've
                > >already been through.)
                >
                >
                > ===Let me second this! I'm very glad to hear
                > favorable recommendations about psychotherapy,
                > since it is fashionable in some recent spiritual
                > quarters to claim that psychotherapy will impede
                > spiritual progress. Not true! I know several
                > people who left the neo-advaita satsang movement,
                > began psychotherapy, and are no longer seeking
                > what they sought from satsang.
                >
                > --Greg

                Absolutely. That's because (and I know that you
                know this) that what they were seeking in satsang,
                they were never going to get there.

                Most folks come to spirituality looking for self-
                improvement, because they are operating under a
                cloud of self-loathing. By finding a guru and
                achieving his/her love, they believe they will be
                able to love themselves. Unfortunately, it doesn't
                always work this way. In fact, it rarely does.
                A quick survey of any bigtime guru's community
                will prove this. There is a higher concentration
                of emotionally fucked-up people there than in
                almost any other gathering of individuals.

                Getting God and seeking the Self are good things,
                but this is not the same as finding inner clarity,
                which requires a rigorous and brutally honest self-
                examination. There are very few gurus who can truly
                help you with that. A good therapist can, and will,
                if you are lucky enough to find one.

                --jody.
              • Jeff Belyea
                Hi Jody - This is interesting to consider - the difference between therapy and meditation. Our personal crossfire positions are clear (at least to us). So no
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 30, 2004
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                  Hi Jody -

                  This is interesting to consider -
                  the difference between therapy and
                  meditation. Our personal crossfire
                  positions are clear (at least to us).
                  So no rerun, but in this
                  time of political debate - equal
                  time (words, bites, bytes):

                  Certainly, psychology offers a
                  proven model for dealing with
                  life's perceived ups and downs.
                  And so does meditation. They
                  just come at it from different
                  angles (some inner, some outer).
                  Transformational psychology
                  blends the goal of psychotherapy
                  and the "supreme" goal of meditation.

                  Without a sound psychological
                  worldview, meditation may have
                  little value, so I agree that
                  adjunct therapy may be wise, but
                  it depends on what the "seeker"
                  is seeking in meditation, and
                  of course, what issues are
                  disrupting peace of mind.

                  Here's where therapy takes
                  return fire from your wild meditation
                  buckshots:

                  Much psychotherapy is focused on
                  reassessment of life experiences;
                  kind of, "If I only knew then,
                  what I know now". For example,
                  when one looks back at an event
                  that had a powerful impact, at
                  an earlier point in life and
                  reassesses their reaction from
                  a more mature and insightful
                  point of view, it is thought
                  that they can find emotional
                  release from that earlier impact,
                  realize that their reaction was
                  immature and even a misinterpretation,
                  and thereby effect an emotional
                  healing.

                  Unfortunately, what so often
                  happens in therapy; such as in
                  support groups and the constellation
                  model, is that the revisiting
                  and stirring of old issues effects
                  something very much like kicking
                  old horseshit. The stink returns
                  and the earlier emotional impact,
                  rather than being lessened,
                  is exacerbated.

                  Nice theory, catharsis,
                  but in many (if not most) cases
                  there is no release, only a
                  revisiting of a bad dream, over
                  and over and over...for years.
                  The "patient" never finds release
                  and comes to be ensnared in the
                  support group's childish
                  sentimentality - and all the
                  personal attention it brings.
                  At this point, the one who comes
                  for therapy has discovered a
                  way to become the focus of
                  attention, the recipient of
                  endless hugs and tears...and
                  this is their pay off. No way
                  will they let go of the emotional
                  impact, because each time they
                  rerun the movie, they get all
                  kinds of sympathy and attention.

                  Of course, both meditation and
                  therapy are infused with "teachers"
                  who harbor "superstitious" imaginings
                  and feed on others to support
                  their own egoic need to feel superior
                  or even "supernatural". They each
                  sell their own brand of horseshit
                  to some unsuspecting people
                  who come for guidance/therapy...and the
                  results are often disappointment and
                  emotional disaster.

                  This isn't universal, and certainly
                  groups like AA and other support
                  structures have helped many people,
                  and probably saved many lives, and
                  many enlightened therapists bring
                  an intentional "applied metaphysics"
                  to therapy. And spiritual communities
                  typically hum with peace of mind
                  and goodwill. (Unless someone
                  is stuck in the late 60s and early
                  70s).

                  Meditation is a different matter:

                  Nice theory, meditation. The idea
                  that entering a silence of the mind
                  will trigger a "response" from God,
                  from our higher Self, is one that
                  has captured the imagination since...
                  most probably before recorded
                  history. Certainly history records
                  testimony of meditation's efficacy
                  in dealing with a broad range of
                  human "ills". The mystic path
                  is known to virtually all religions
                  and spiritual traditions.

                  Satsang points to this - it is not
                  where IT is found, but is can
                  provide a "lamp unto our feet"
                  that may guide us to a realization
                  of our true home - within God.

                  And on a less lofty plane, there
                  are a kazillion reports of today's
                  meditators reporting improved
                  stress management and ability
                  to relax, more non-judgmental
                  acceptance of other personality
                  types, improved relationships
                  and more positive self-talk
                  a renewed enthusiasm for life/career
                  goals ((not to mention the host of
                  physiological benefits of
                  meditation) ...to name a few.

                  To return to a spiritual context...

                  Meditation potentially holds a key
                  to the entrance to another realm.
                  This is not therapy, in the classic
                  sense. Entrance into this realm,
                  beyond space and time, into the
                  eternal holy moment, requires
                  "death" of all previously held
                  concepts, a beginner's mind, an
                  emptying, a total surrender...
                  a willingness to die to the former
                  self, and the opportunity to
                  meet the Self - an entirely new
                  (or possibly newly remembered)
                  Self. The needy neurotic who
                  comes to the master meditation
                  teacher as a sincere student
                  may receive the unique healing,
                  another sort of resolution, an
                  entirely new perspective on what
                  seemed to be difficult circumstances,
                  a startling new "wisdom", a
                  gnosis that cures neurosis.

                  To find the right key that
                  unlocks the door to peace of mind
                  and perfect resolution of past
                  problems and pain of remorse,
                  is to be "reborn" a Self of pure
                  existential courage, to know
                  perfect peace of mind and
                  a joy unspeakable...

                  At this level of meditation
                  theistic language is often
                  used...God is remembered.
                  Our intimate "place" within
                  God is remembered.

                  Meditation may opened the door to
                  this "heavenly, eternal" realm,
                  but the decision to enter into the
                  "enlightenment" or "awakening"
                  or "holy of holies" is left to
                  the "seeker". The teacher points the
                  way, and offers guidance along
                  the path, drawing upon his or her
                  own direct personal experience of
                  having entered the place beyond
                  time and space, where a new
                  being replaced the old one.

                  As Jesus, said, "We (teachers)
                  know of what we speak."

                  This is the role of the true, ardent
                  and sometimes over-enthusiastic
                  Boddhisattva. They wait, either on
                  this earthly plane, or on what might be
                  called the astral plane (beyond
                  space and time - as in where
                  Jesus resides for those who
                  have "met" him) at the entrance
                  to this "changing room", this
                  place of removal of darkness
                  (gu-ru means "darkness remover")
                  as in a darkened consciousness,
                  as servants to those sentient
                  beings who have come to the
                  point of earnest aspiration.

                  This shift in perception, known
                  to one who has emerged from God's
                  changing room, is not gained as
                  a result of a new rational insight
                  or a more mature reaction to
                  past life experiences. This
                  change is, in a manner of speaking,
                  pure grace - God's work. Grace
                  gives new life, a new being, a new
                  knowing (gnosis - the gnosis
                  that cures neurosis) that changes
                  everything - while changing
                  nothing. No words suffice.
                  The shift is only known
                  experientially.

                  Meditators and therapy clients
                  meet each other going the other
                  way everyday.


                  Papajeff






                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                  <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
                  > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Greg
                  Goode
                  > <goode@d...> wrote:
                  > > At 06:50 PM 8/30/2004 +0000, jodyrrr wrote:
                  > >
                  > > >Hey Jack.
                  > > >
                  > > >Have you thought about trying psychotherapy?
                  > > >I truly believe that *everyone* would benefit
                  > > >from the counsel of a good therapist, regardless
                  > > >of whether they may be considered a victim of
                  > > >a psychopathology.
                  > > >
                  > > >The trick is finding a good one, but if and when
                  > > >you do, in concert with your meditation, you may
                  > > >find the boost you need to get through the rough
                  > > >patches we all encounter in our lives (often
                  > > >closely related to those rough patches we've
                  > > >already been through.)
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ===Let me second this! I'm very glad to hear
                  > > favorable recommendations about psychotherapy,
                  > > since it is fashionable in some recent spiritual
                  > > quarters to claim that psychotherapy will impede
                  > > spiritual progress. Not true! I know several
                  > > people who left the neo-advaita satsang movement,
                  > > began psychotherapy, and are no longer seeking
                  > > what they sought from satsang.
                  > >
                  > > --Greg
                  >
                  > Absolutely. That's because (and I know that you
                  > know this) that what they were seeking in satsang,
                  > they were never going to get there.
                  >
                  > Most folks come to spirituality looking for self-
                  > improvement, because they are operating under a
                  > cloud of self-loathing. By finding a guru and
                  > achieving his/her love, they believe they will be
                  > able to love themselves. Unfortunately, it doesn't
                  > always work this way. In fact, it rarely does.
                  > A quick survey of any bigtime guru's community
                  > will prove this. There is a higher concentration
                  > of emotionally fucked-up people there than in
                  > almost any other gathering of individuals.
                  >
                  > Getting God and seeking the Self are good things,
                  > but this is not the same as finding inner clarity,
                  > which requires a rigorous and brutally honest self-
                  > examination. There are very few gurus who can truly
                  > help you with that. A good therapist can, and will,
                  > if you are lucky enough to find one.
                  >
                  > --jody.
                • jodyrrr
                  ... Hey Jeff. [snip] ... Perhaps. However, I d contend that s a new development. IOW, that wasn t part of the original specification. Meditation did not
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 30, 2004
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                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
                    <jeff@m...> wrote:
                    > Hi Jody -

                    Hey Jeff.

                    [snip]

                    > Certainly, psychology offers a
                    > proven model for dealing with
                    > life's perceived ups and downs.
                    > And so does meditation.

                    Perhaps. However, I'd contend that's
                    a new development. IOW, that wasn't
                    part of the original specification.
                    Meditation did not develop as a self-
                    help technique. That came in the early
                    20th century.

                    Making meditation a replacement for
                    psychotherapy may extend its marketability,
                    but it's not an approach that all meditation
                    teachers would recommend.


                    [snip]

                    > Much psychotherapy is focused on
                    > reassessment of life experiences;

                    Not exactly. Psychotherapy is about
                    relieving emotional tension. One way
                    to accomplish this is by way of life
                    assessement. The reassessment comes
                    after, when the emotional polarity
                    has been somewhat neutralized.

                    > kind of, "If I only knew then,
                    > what I know now". For example,
                    > when one looks back at an event
                    > that had a powerful impact, at
                    > an earlier point in life and
                    > reassesses their reaction from
                    > a more mature and insightful
                    > point of view, it is thought
                    > that they can find emotional
                    > release from that earlier impact,
                    > realize that their reaction was
                    > immature and even a misinterpretation,
                    > and thereby effect an emotional
                    > healing.

                    That's not my impression of psycho-
                    therapy at all. It's reliving past
                    events to unlock the emotional potential
                    that is stored there. That happens
                    completely outside of any subjective
                    evaluations as to what was correct
                    or incorrect about the reaction at
                    the time.

                    This isn't to say that looking back
                    doesn't reveal the mistakes we made,
                    but a good psychotherapist isn't going
                    to view them as such, nor recommmend that
                    they be viewed as mistakes by their clients.

                    > Unfortunately, what so often
                    > happens in therapy; such as in
                    > support groups and the constellation
                    > model, is that the revisiting
                    > and stirring of old issues effects
                    > something very much like kicking
                    > old horseshit. The stink returns
                    > and the earlier emotional impact,
                    > rather than being lessened,
                    > is exacerbated.

                    That's not the fault of psychotherapy,
                    just a crappy therapist.

                    > Nice theory, catharsis,
                    > but in many (if not most) cases
                    > there is no release, only a
                    > revisiting of a bad dream, over
                    > and over and over...for years.

                    That statement seemingly contradicts
                    my entire life.

                    > The "patient" never finds release
                    > and comes to be ensnared in the
                    > support group's childish
                    > sentimentality - and all the
                    > personal attention it brings.
                    > At this point, the one who comes
                    > for therapy has discovered a
                    > way to become the focus of
                    > attention, the recipient of
                    > endless hugs and tears...and
                    > this is their pay off. No way
                    > will they let go of the emotional
                    > impact, because each time they
                    > rerun the movie, they get all
                    > kinds of sympathy and attention.

                    Again, bad therapist. No cookie.

                    [snip]

                    > Nice theory, meditation. The idea
                    > that entering a silence of the mind
                    > will trigger a "response" from God,
                    > from our higher Self, is one that
                    > has captured the imagination since...

                    That's your theory of meditation, Jeff.
                    Mine is this: mind is entrained by the
                    repetition of mantra, or silence, or
                    whatever. Mental discipline follows,
                    and mind content becomes less cluttered.

                    That's the ideal situation. In many folks,
                    dark stuff gets stirred up. It has to for
                    progress to occur. A [good] therapist can
                    be very helpful if this occurs, and it does
                    occur. It did in me, and in a number of
                    others I've known in my life.

                    IOW, a good, effective meditation practice
                    isn't always peaches and creme. In fact, if
                    you don't run into a few shadows, it's not
                    doing much of anything for you with regards
                    to personal transformation, IMO.

                    [snip]

                    > Meditators and therapy clients
                    > meet each other going the other
                    > way everyday.
                    >
                    >
                    > Papajeff

                    And some find that by walking in both
                    directions, they end up just where they wanted
                    to be more quickly and with more clarity than
                    if they'd just gone one way or the other.

                    --jody
                  • Jeff Belyea
                    Thanks, Jody. It seems that meditation, yoga, visualization, guided imagery, relaxation techniques and even contemporary hypnotherapy - acknowledged in 1957 by
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 31, 2004
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                      Thanks, Jody. It seems that
                      meditation, yoga, visualization,
                      guided imagery, relaxation
                      techniques and even contemporary
                      hypnotherapy - acknowledged in
                      1957 by the medical establishment
                      (sorry for the hold-over hippie
                      vocabulary) are being blended
                      more and more into "mainstream"
                      therapies and overall healthcare,
                      education, business and sport.

                      Billions are being spent on
                      these "alternative or complementary"
                      approaches to well-being. And
                      sometimes, they go more
                      efficiently and wholistically
                      to the "heart" of the matter.

                      Agreed that a combination
                      of good counsel and meditation
                      can be the best route for some.

                      However...

                      The spiritual aspect of meditation
                      need not get lost in its relatively
                      new role in the self-help (Self-help)
                      arena. Even here, it can be
                      breakthrough-useful as an
                      "applied metaphysics".

                      God most probably doesn't
                      need man's psychotherapy. (ü)

                      Best,

                      Jeff
                    • jodyrrr
                      ... wrote: [snip] ... Only when He manifests as us men (and women.) ... --jody.
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 31, 2004
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                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
                        <jeff@m...> wrote:

                        [snip]

                        > The spiritual aspect of meditation
                        > need not get lost in its relatively
                        > new role in the self-help (Self-help)
                        > arena. Even here, it can be
                        > breakthrough-useful as an
                        > "applied metaphysics".
                        >
                        > God most probably doesn't
                        > need man's psychotherapy. (ü)

                        Only when He manifests as us men (and women.)

                        > Best,
                        >
                        > Jeff

                        --jody.
                      • Jeff Belyea
                        ... Belyea ... Sure, even though we are made manifest in the image of God, what is encountered (or possibly wired into us) when manifested in this physical,
                        Message 11 of 11 , Aug 31, 2004
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                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                          <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
                          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff
                          Belyea"
                          > <jeff@m...> wrote:
                          >
                          > [snip]
                          >
                          > > The spiritual aspect of meditation
                          > > need not get lost in its relatively
                          > > new role in the self-help (Self-help)
                          > > arena. Even here, it can be
                          > > breakthrough-useful as an
                          > > "applied metaphysics".
                          > >
                          > > God most probably doesn't
                          > > need man's psychotherapy. (ü)
                          >
                          > Only when He manifests as us men (and women.)
                          >
                          > > Best,
                          > >
                          > > Jeff
                          >
                          > --jody.

                          Sure, even though we are
                          made manifest in the image of God,
                          what is encountered (or possibly
                          wired into us) when manifested
                          in this physical, rational form,
                          is the genesis of the feeling of
                          separation - what is called maya
                          or illusion in some traditions; and
                          the feeling that we are (our identity is)
                          the manifest, rather than the spirit,
                          a spark of God's own fire.

                          Forgetting that we are within God,
                          or being coerced out of knowing this
                          (socialization - being force-fed from
                          the tree of duality) is what prepares
                          the ground for dark disturbing doubts -
                          not only about religion or sprituality, but
                          about who we are at our core.

                          Meditation, at its loftiest, is one
                          vehicle for dispelling the notion
                          that we are separate from God.

                          In meditation, either formal or
                          the meditative state that a
                          mountain range or a sunrise
                          can provoke, we can potentially
                          discover that the answer to "Who Am I"
                          is not this manifest flesh and blood
                          container, but rather the Self that
                          is the unmanifest spirit, a play
                          of consciousness, eternal,
                          within God, inseparable from God.

                          Enjoying the day,

                          Jeff
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