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Re: Benefits of Meditation

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  • Jeff Belyea
    Mustaq - How each of us experience meditation is intensely personal, and in some ways impossible to put into words. Writing (or talking) about the effects and
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 15, 2004
      Mustaq -

      How each of us experience
      meditation is intensely personal,
      and in some ways impossible
      to put into words.

      Writing (or talking) about the
      effects and benefits can seem
      almost a violation of the intimacy
      of meditation.

      As well, what might be an
      enthusiastic sharing of a specific
      benefit or effect of meditation, is all
      too easily interpreted as arrogance
      or self-aggrandizement.

      So, there is an understandable
      resistence to posting one's
      "his story" - especially for those
      who been on these discussion
      groups for some time, and have
      seen the return fire leveled at
      those who do so.

      The "practical" benefits mentioned
      in an earlier post were each specific
      from reports given by practitioners of
      meditation.

      What is your purpose for pursuing
      meditation?





      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
      "mustaqawacka" <mustaqawacka@y...> wrote:
      > Does anyone have any personal success stories of the
      benefits of
      > meditation, and how it has affected there career, relationships
      > etc.. that would be greatly appreciated thanks,
      >
      > Mustaq.
    • medit8ionsociety
      ... Dear Mustaq and all, As PapaJeff has said, the reasons we do it and the results we have from meditating are very personal. And yet, there are many common
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 15, 2004
        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
        <jeff@m...> wrote:
        > Mustaq -
        >
        > How each of us experience
        > meditation is intensely personal,
        > and in some ways impossible
        > to put into words.
        >
        > Writing (or talking) about the
        > effects and benefits can seem
        > almost a violation of the intimacy
        > of meditation.
        >
        > As well, what might be an
        > enthusiastic sharing of a specific
        > benefit or effect of meditation, is all
        > too easily interpreted as arrogance
        > or self-aggrandizement.
        >
        > So, there is an understandable
        > resistence to posting one's
        > "his story" - especially for those
        > who been on these discussion
        > groups for some time, and have
        > seen the return fire leveled at
        > those who do so.
        >
        > The "practical" benefits mentioned
        > in an earlier post were each specific
        > from reports given by practitioners of
        > meditation.
        >
        > What is your purpose for pursuing
        > meditation?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
        > "mustaqawacka" <mustaqawacka@y...> wrote:
        > > Does anyone have any personal success stories of the
        > benefits of
        > > meditation, and how it has affected there career, relationships
        > > etc.. that would be greatly appreciated thanks,
        > >
        > > Mustaq.

        Dear Mustaq and all,
        As PapaJeff has said, the reasons we do it and the results we have
        from meditating are very personal. And yet, there are many common
        grounds one can expect all meditators to have the potential to "get"
        out of their meditation practice. There is an excellent article in
        issue #7 of our newsletter, The Inner Traveler by Dr. Lonny Brown
        titled "Why Meditate?" that I recommend. It can be found at this URL:
        http://www.meditationsociety.com/it71808/index.html
        It is a fairly large file, but well worth the download-time wait.
        I also recommend that if you enjoy PapaJeff's wise and eloquent
        pointings to enlightenment, as I do, that you check out his new Yahoo
        group at:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mysticschool/
        Peace and blessings,
        Bob
      • no by
        Hi Jeff, it s real a pity, that you don t help us anymore with your blessed insights! Even special our n0by gathering lacks of your pure, ripe hints! But what
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 16, 2004

          Hi Jeff,

           

          it's real a pity, that you don't help us
          anymore with your blessed insights!

          Even special our n0by gathering
          lacks of your pure, ripe hints!

          But what to do? What more can be done,
          but to send you invitations again and again?

          Maybe with the coming moon some of you
          is curious and courageous enuff to dive in our culture?

          Subject:  Re: sannyas

          Dear Readers,
           
          in our bit weird warrior free n0by gathering
          caring confessions from deepest soul!
           Blessed Bhogwoshed Believers burn versus
          peagons - not bearing Bhogwosh Virus.
           
          Here is a nice, juicy German woman and mother,
          who confessess in blonde BEAUTY  her feelings
          about her inner deepest Bhogwosh Reception
          in a symbolizing fertilisation of her receptive state!

          Please enjoy her artful presentation from
          her inner richness of the New Man from India -
          Now in Germany! She left ''Greatest Fuehrer of Times''
          ((GreFoT)) succesfull behind: Kali JOY comes:
           
           
           
           

          Sannyas

            Message 14973 of 15028  |  Previous | Next  [ Up Thread ]

          Sun Aug 15, 2004  8:50 am


          Hi n0by,

          although you never really answer my questions in public, and only point to the cd of your website you've sent me the other day (which I haven't looked at yet, mea culpa!), I start to understand more about you and the 'Sangha'...

          As far as I can see, you came to Osho (that time Bhagwan, a 'name' I never liked) not out of love (to yourself), but out of BELIEVE. And, as it usually is with BELIEVE, at some point of time the other side of the coin turns up, the DOUBT.And, with it, through the outside happenings, the frustration, followed by turning the back completely.



          I start to understand more about you and the 'Sangha'...

          You 'old guys' are the generation after Hitler. You've had the hard task of swimming free from the domination through dictators.  You are the generation of the hippies, the student revolution, and the 'make love, not war'- sexual revolution. 

          You 'old people' went to Osho basically because of free sex, mostly coming from a background of having traveled through India, and having had lots of drug experiences.

          And you 'old guys' had been presented a new dictator, this time in a female coat.  It was a FIRE TEST - as far as I can see.  It was the
          deep cooking of all this old conditioning - of OBBEYing to an authority, out of BELIEVE.

          You 'old guys' are the generation after Hitler. You've had the hard task of swimming free from the domination through dictators. You are the generation of the hippies, the student revolution, and the 'make love, not war'- sexual revolution. 



          mostly coming from a background of having traveled through India, 

          You 'old people' went to Osho basically because of free sex, mostly coming from a background of having traveled through India, and having had lots of drug experiences.

          And you 'old guys' had been presented a new dictator, this time in a female coat. It was a FIRE TEST - as far as I can see. It was the deep cooking of all this old conditioning - of OBBEYing to an authority, out of BELIEVE. 

          It was a repetition of the 3rd Reich, a task for the revolutionaries to solve. It was a chance for you, a test for your awareness, and for the ability to stand up for yourself. 

          Most of you guys 'failed' the fire test. You kept the old structures in a new face. You (most of the 'old guys were Germans) were unable to detect the first signs of dictatorship, until it was too late. Or maybe some of you did - but the call of the 'open whore house' and the feeling of being connected  in a group of similar feeling people kept you in the game.


          And you 'old guys' had been presented a new dictator, this time in a female coat. 

          It was YOU, who allowed the DICTATORSHIP of the 'BITCHES'! It was YOU who didn't stand up against  it, when it was still possible. It was YOU who didn't  REBELL, or at least left. IT was YOU who didn't read  the signs. And finally it was YOU whose BELIEVE was  completely schattered - and you left in disgust, and  still keep ranting and ranting.

          You keep ranting against Osho, against Sannyas,  against Sannyasins - but actually you rant against  yourself. Because deep down you know that you  failed the test. And the hatred you put out whenever 
          you only hear the word 'Osho' is a hatred for  yourself, n0by.

          The test was GREAT! It was dividing the seed from  the crap. It was sorting the FOLLOWERS from  the SEEKERS. It was sorting those who went to  Poona just for the outside FUN and the FREE SEX 
          from those with a deep yearning for LIBERATION.

          n0by, Ramarshi is right: Something in you is dead. It has died together with you believe. But Ramarshi is also wrong: it is never too late. 


          It was YOU, who allowed the DICTATORSHIP of the
          'BITCHES'!

          This inner flame is always burning, it is the very life essence. It can smolder, like it does right now - but  it can also burn up again. And it has no chance  anymore to burn up from turning to someone on the  outside, some MASTER to FOLLOW (some finger  pointing to the moon - excuse the clich´┐Ż) - it can only  burn up when you turn back into yourself, into it directly.

          I can already see your sarcastically smiling face,  n0bster. I saw it right in front of my face yesterday,  when we talked on the phone. I told you of my  gratitute to 'the grace of late birth' - I was too  young to get to Poona in the 70ties, and watching  from the outside in the 80ties too disgusted from  the Oregon happenings to ever consider to get into  this SECT of red-clothed, mala-wearing FOLLOWERS. 

          I met Osho in 1987 - not by accident when travelling, not  through a greed for sex, and not for the yearning to  belong to some group, some chosen people who will change the world. I'd read a book - and for the first I'd found someone speaking out what I always felt  true, and what had, since childhood, made me feel an  alien in the world. And there was no yearning to get  to see the MASTER, to BECOME a SANNYASIN -  the very thought of 'following a master' was completely  out of question. I was a rebel, and belonging to some  group was an impossible idea for me.


          I can already see your sarcastically smiling face,  n0bster. 

          I met Osho on the inside a few weeks after the book -  a voice inside, a presence, some slight guidance only,  not opening doors for me, but basically pointing to the  thousands of doors I do not need to open. He was  whispering inside of me, for a few weeks only -  and it was never a call to follow him. It was a call  to follow myself, to turn back inside. At some point  of time I understood the 'work of the master' -  and I took Sannyas, in deep love. By mail, without  any celebration. And his voice inside me STOPPED.  And threw me just back to myself. No chance 
          anymore to keep my focus on him.

          My Sannyas is very different to yours, n0by.  It is a reminder only.

          You've laughed when I told you that my son mistakes  Osho for his father. It was clear sign for you,  you've detected a believer in me, who conditiones  her child to be an Osho believer.


          My Sannyas is very different to yours, n0by.  It is a reminder only.

          I told you, and do it again here, where this mix-up comes from: Rishi doesn't know his father. He knows only pictures - a man with long hair, a beard, and brown, soft, 'indian' eyes (he has the same eyes). And also Osho has these eyes, and the beard and long hair. Last year, when visiting a friend with an indian husband, Rishi asked me if this guy was Osho.

          And what is still left from Osho on the outside in our lifes is a few pictures, and every night, before going to sleep, a little mentioning of his name only, for me in gratitute to Osho who was a help for me to be now who and where I am.

          And some more truth in Rishis mixing-up: he has no father. And he was conceived in deep love and surrender, through the beloved to the whole of life. And this is also my connection with Osho. It is true, in a way he is Oshos child. And just now I remember a vision I had in my very first night in Poona, 1988, which I never shared with anyone because it was just too absurd and contradictory to what I though could be true: for a few hours 
          I felt in deep embrace with Osho, and I conceived a child. I had taken it symbolically - my inner child, myself being reborn.

          It just now brings big laughter...
          ... and this laughter I send to you, for an enchanting Sunday

          Khaleela



          I felt in deep embrace with Osho, and I conceived a child. 


          back

           
           

           

           

           

          Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 13:01:15 -0000
             From: "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@...>
          Subject: Re: Benefits of Meditation

          Mustaq -

          How each of us experience
          meditation is intensely personal,
          and in some ways impossible
          to put into words.

          Writing (or talking) about the
          effects and benefits can seem
          almost a violation of the intimacy
          of meditation.

          As well, what might be an
          enthusiastic sharing of a specific
          benefit or effect of meditation, is all
          too easily interpreted as arrogance
          or self-aggrandizement.

          So, there is an understandable
          resistence to posting one's
          "his story" - especially for those
          who been on these discussion
          groups for some time, and have
          seen the return fire leveled at
          those who do so.

          The "practical" benefits mentioned
          in an earlier post were each specific
          from reports given by practitioners of
          meditation.

          What is your purpose for pursuing
          meditation?




          http://n0by.de

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/n0by/


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        • blueoceantiger
          ... dear Mustaq: i am writing here because this touches a conversation i had with a dear one tonight. we discussed how there are experiences that are so
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 18, 2004
            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "mustaqawacka"
            <mustaqawacka@y...> wrote:
            > Does anyone have any personal success stories of the benefits of
            > meditation, and how it has affected there career, relationships
            > etc.. that would be greatly appreciated thanks,
            >
            > Mustaq.

            dear Mustaq:

            i am writing here because this touches
            a conversation i had with a dear one tonight.
            we discussed how there are experiences that are
            so sacred, alive, untouchable, that there seems
            no need or possibility to offer them in words.

            i can be as close physically to you as anyone
            could be and i can tell you of the most wonderful
            or nihilistic things, and it will not give you your
            own direct experience of what i speak of. and it
            may instead give you a description that serves
            to make you overlook your own real experience,
            because it does not sound the same.

            that said, there is an avid curiosity in me
            for reading and expressing at times. there
            is also an awareness that any attempt
            to use words creates containers for what is
            infinite and undefinable.

            what i would like to say is that there comes
            a time when there is no separation between
            meditation and life, between what is when one
            closes one's eyes, and what is present, when
            one's eyes are open.

            also though, it was in meditation years ago that
            i had one of my first experiences of vastness,
            boundlessness, and time stopping.

            if you are genuinely wondering if there is a point
            to meditation, i say if it draws you, then yes!
            there are so many versions and stories about it.
            as far as i can see now, all are techniques so that
            one can risk being fully present for what is.
            just as psychological training is so that one may
            feel comfortable being present with someone else.
            many experience restlessness and fear at some point,
            or wondering "is this it, is this right, is this
            all there is?" staying with these experiences or
            non-experiences are the openings to everything.
            and yet the experiences no matter how fabulous,
            are not it. it is the being with what is,
            whatever may arise, that is really the crux for me.

            does it affect one's life? it changes everything
            and yet it is all the same. only more so exactly
            what is. and there is a grace in this that
            is wordless, intangible and utterly real.
            surrendering all ideas, all of what i hold as me,
            creates availability to what is present.

            for me, breathing, living, writing, surrendering,
            speaking my truth, loving and meditation are all
            the same thing. being fully here, just as i am.
            and within this is a softness, a stillness, and
            an equanimity, available for all of us.

            this is simply my (non-expert)perception and
            response in this moment. thank you for an
            opportunity to ponder this.


            --josie--
          • Jeff Belyea
            Beautiful...beyond words. Thanks, Josie. ... mustaqawacka ... benefits of ... relationships
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 18, 2004
              Beautiful...beyond words.
              Thanks, Josie.


              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
              "blueoceantiger" <jkane@d...> wrote:
              > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
              "mustaqawacka"
              > <mustaqawacka@y...> wrote:
              > > Does anyone have any personal success stories of the
              benefits of
              > > meditation, and how it has affected there career,
              relationships
              > > etc.. that would be greatly appreciated thanks,
              > >
              > > Mustaq.
              >
              > dear Mustaq:
              >
              > i am writing here because this touches
              > a conversation i had with a dear one tonight.
              > we discussed how there are experiences that are
              > so sacred, alive, untouchable, that there seems
              > no need or possibility to offer them in words.
              >
              > i can be as close physically to you as anyone
              > could be and i can tell you of the most wonderful
              > or nihilistic things, and it will not give you your
              > own direct experience of what i speak of. and it
              > may instead give you a description that serves
              > to make you overlook your own real experience,
              > because it does not sound the same.
              >
              > that said, there is an avid curiosity in me
              > for reading and expressing at times. there
              > is also an awareness that any attempt
              > to use words creates containers for what is
              > infinite and undefinable.
              >
              > what i would like to say is that there comes
              > a time when there is no separation between
              > meditation and life, between what is when one
              > closes one's eyes, and what is present, when
              > one's eyes are open.
              >
              > also though, it was in meditation years ago that
              > i had one of my first experiences of vastness,
              > boundlessness, and time stopping.
              >
              > if you are genuinely wondering if there is a point
              > to meditation, i say if it draws you, then yes!
              > there are so many versions and stories about it.
              > as far as i can see now, all are techniques so that
              > one can risk being fully present for what is.
              > just as psychological training is so that one may
              > feel comfortable being present with someone else.
              > many experience restlessness and fear at some point,
              > or wondering "is this it, is this right, is this
              > all there is?" staying with these experiences or
              > non-experiences are the openings to everything.
              > and yet the experiences no matter how fabulous,
              > are not it. it is the being with what is,
              > whatever may arise, that is really the crux for me.
              >
              > does it affect one's life? it changes everything
              > and yet it is all the same. only more so exactly
              > what is. and there is a grace in this that
              > is wordless, intangible and utterly real.
              > surrendering all ideas, all of what i hold as me,
              > creates availability to what is present.
              >
              > for me, breathing, living, writing, surrendering,
              > speaking my truth, loving and meditation are all
              > the same thing. being fully here, just as i am.
              > and within this is a softness, a stillness, and
              > an equanimity, available for all of us.
              >
              > this is simply my (non-expert)perception and
              > response in this moment. thank you for an
              > opportunity to ponder this.
              >
              >
              > --josie--
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