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Re: how about this

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  • dabo_now
    ... be ... this ... most of ... practice ... is ... generally ... been ... Bob, you make realization sound like a step-by-step process. a cause-and- effect
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 7, 2004
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
      <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "dabo_now"
      > <dscasta@y...> wrote:
      > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "dabo_now"
      > > <dscasta@y...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > meditation is the "health" of your being.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > comments, anyone?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > you should know that i have had only one glimpse of what might
      be
      > > > meditation, i am certain i am not in meditation right now, but
      this
      > > > is exactly my point - i feel like a fucking walking disease
      most of
      > > > the time.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > dabo
      > >
      > >
      > > let me remove the word "being", cause someone may not like it.
      > >
      > >
      > > meditation is the "health" of who you are.
      > >
      > >
      > > dabo
      >
      > Dear Dabo,
      > I am really not sure at all of what you mean by using the term
      > "health" relative to meditation. Classically, meditation is the 7th
      > step in an 8 part process that leads to (here goes more subjective
      > words:-) Enlightenment/Cosmic Comsciousness/Realization.
      > The first 5 steps establish a strong foundation by having you
      practice
      > dispassion by neither running towards things or away from them, and
      > discrimination between the real and the unreal, the finite and the
      > infinite, and in a way, right from wrong. Also practiced and gained
      is
      > self control, by having you master your senses, breath, and
      generally
      > all reactivity. Then you aren't doing the things that are "wrong"
      > (take your peace away/distract you) and you are ready for the 6th
      > step, which is Concentration. You then find, after making all the
      > efforts necessary and appropriate, when you really are Concentrating
      > and your mind is focused and one-pointed, that Meditation (the 7th
      > step) comes to you effortlessly. And ultimately, in the 8th and
      > ultimate part, Contemplation, what is revealed is what has always
      been
      > the case... that (as you put it), "who you are" is
      > Truth/Consciousness/Bliss. And you live happily ever after.
      > Peace and blessings,
      > Bob



      Bob,

      you make realization sound like a step-by-step process. a cause-and-
      effect chain, progress along which is guaranteed by the efforts of
      the practitioner.


      somehow, this does not coincide with my understanding of realization.


      > And you live happily ever after.

      you promise? :)


      dabo
    • medit8ionsociety
      ... Well, you re wrong and you re right. What I have described is the thousands of years old, tried and proven methodology of Raja Yoga. And many many
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 7, 2004
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "dabo_now"
        <dscasta@y...> wrote:
        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
        > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "dabo_now"
        > > <dscasta@y...> wrote:
        > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "dabo_now"
        > > > <dscasta@y...> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > meditation is the "health" of your being.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > comments, anyone?
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > you should know that i have had only one glimpse of what might
        > be
        > > > > meditation, i am certain i am not in meditation right now, but
        > this
        > > > > is exactly my point - i feel like a fucking walking disease
        > most of
        > > > > the time.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > dabo
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > let me remove the word "being", cause someone may not like it.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > meditation is the "health" of who you are.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > dabo
        > >
        > > Dear Dabo,
        > > I am really not sure at all of what you mean by using the term
        > > "health" relative to meditation. Classically, meditation is the 7th
        > > step in an 8 part process that leads to (here goes more subjective
        > > words:-) Enlightenment/Cosmic Comsciousness/Realization.
        > > The first 5 steps establish a strong foundation by having you
        > practice
        > > dispassion by neither running towards things or away from them, and
        > > discrimination between the real and the unreal, the finite and the
        > > infinite, and in a way, right from wrong. Also practiced and gained
        > is
        > > self control, by having you master your senses, breath, and
        > generally
        > > all reactivity. Then you aren't doing the things that are "wrong"
        > > (take your peace away/distract you) and you are ready for the 6th
        > > step, which is Concentration. You then find, after making all the
        > > efforts necessary and appropriate, when you really are Concentrating
        > > and your mind is focused and one-pointed, that Meditation (the 7th
        > > step) comes to you effortlessly. And ultimately, in the 8th and
        > > ultimate part, Contemplation, what is revealed is what has always
        > been
        > > the case... that (as you put it), "who you are" is
        > > Truth/Consciousness/Bliss. And you live happily ever after.
        > > Peace and blessings,
        > > Bob
        >
        >
        >
        > Bob,
        >
        > you make realization sound like a step-by-step process. a cause-and-
        > effect chain, progress along which is guaranteed by the efforts of
        > the practitioner.
        >
        >

        Well, you're wrong and you're right. What I have described is the
        thousands of years old, tried and proven methodology of Raja Yoga. And
        many many Enlightened people have credited this process with providing
        the pure soil for the heavenly crop to be able to bear fruit, or some
        other similar lofty and pretty sounding kind of pretentious cliche.
        But there is nothing guaranteed, no matter the effort involved. It is
        by Grace/Luck/The Fickle Finger of Fate/the right amount of drugs or
        inner chemistry or neuro workings/...whatever...that has this most
        momentious and also the least remarkable ("Why this was right there
        the whole time!!! Why did't I see what was right in front of me?!!!",
        etc) Realization "Be"(happen).

        >
        > somehow, this does not coincide with my understanding of realization.
        >

        Yup! It is beyond and before as well as concurrent with "understanding".

        > > And you live happily ever after.
        >
        > you promise? :)
        >
        >

        Guaranteed, money back if not satisfied:-)

        > dabo

        Peace and blessings,
        Bob
      • Don James
        ... wrote: Messages Messages Help Reply | Forward | View Source | Unwrap Lines Message 13144 of 13157 | Previous | Next [ Up Thread ]
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 10, 2004
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          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
          <no_reply@y...> wrote:

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          From: medit8ionsociety
          Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 10:37 am
          Subject: Re: how about this


          ADVERTISEMENT


          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "dabo_now"
          <dscasta@y...> wrote:
          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
          > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "dabo_now"
          > > <dscasta@y...> wrote:
          > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "dabo_now"
          > > > <dscasta@y...> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > meditation is the "health" of your being.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > comments, anyone?
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > you should know that i have had only one glimpse of what might
          > be
          > > > > meditation, i am certain i am not in meditation right now, but
          > this
          > > > > is exactly my point - i feel like a fucking walking disease
          > most of
          > > > > the time.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > dabo
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > let me remove the word "being", cause someone may not like it.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > meditation is the "health" of who you are.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > dabo
          > >
          > > Dear Dabo,
          > > I am really not sure at all of what you mean by using the term
          > > "health" relative to meditation. Classically, meditation is the
          7th
          > > step in an 8 part process that leads to (here goes more subjective
          > > words:-) Enlightenment/Cosmic Comsciousness/Realization.
          > > The first 5 steps establish a strong foundation by having you
          > practice
          > > dispassion by neither running towards things or away from them,
          and
          > > discrimination between the real and the unreal, the finite and the
          > > infinite, and in a way, right from wrong. Also practiced and
          gained
          > is
          > > self control, by having you master your senses, breath, and
          > generally
          > > all reactivity. Then you aren't doing the things that are "wrong"
          > > (take your peace away/distract you) and you are ready for the 6th
          > > step, which is Concentration. You then find, after making all the
          > > efforts necessary and appropriate, when you really are
          Concentrating
          > > and your mind is focused and one-pointed, that Meditation (the 7th
          > > step) comes to you effortlessly. And ultimately, in the 8th and
          > > ultimate part, Contemplation, what is revealed is what has always
          > been
          > > the case... that (as you put it), "who you are" is
          > > Truth/Consciousness/Bliss. And you live happily ever after.
          > > Peace and blessings,
          > > Bob
          >
          >
          >
          > Bob,
          >
          > you make realization sound like a step-by-step process. a cause-and-
          > effect chain, progress along which is guaranteed by the efforts of
          > the practitioner.
          >
          >

          Well, you're wrong and you're right. What I have described is the
          thousands of years old, tried and proven methodology of Raja Yoga. And
          many many Enlightened people have credited this process with providing
          the pure soil for the heavenly crop to be able to bear fruit, or some
          other similar lofty and pretty sounding kind of pretentious cliche.
          But there is nothing guaranteed, no matter the effort involved. It is
          by Grace/Luck/The Fickle Finger of Fate/the right amount of drugs or
          inner chemistry or neuro workings/...whatever...that has this most
          momentious and also the least remarkable ("Why this was right there
          the whole time!!! Why did't I see what was right in front of me?!!!",
          etc) Realization "Be"(happen).

          -yes, different strokes for different aspirants. One may not get
          enlightened by your method but the next person may. Either way, one
          has to learn all these things you mention, whether that process
          itself is the catalyst for awakening.

          >
          > somehow, this does not coincide with my understanding of
          realization.
          >

          Yup! It is beyond and before as well as concurrent
          with "understanding".

          -realization is a level of consciousness. So in a way, everyone who
          is conscious at all is realized, it's just a matter of degrees, it's
          not so black and white, either/or. It's a figure/ground shift of the
          foundation of attention, shifting from the habit of mental
          identification and filtering, pushing that stuff into the background
          and allowing awareness to be in the foreground. And then resoloving
          all the mental confusion.

          > > And you live happily ever after.
          >
          > you promise? :)
          >
          >
          Guaranteed, money back if not satisfied:-)

          > dabo

          Peace and blessings,
          Bob
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