--- In firstname.lastname@example.org
> > > Hal, there is nowhere other than where "all" exists. There is no
> way to get to it. It's here, right now, in all, as all.>>
> You are correct Jody about the above. I used the words, "get to"
> the "place" of emptiness when it would have been more correct to
> say "realizing" the "state" of emptiness.
Or, seeing the ever-existing reality of emptiness as the
very form of our own being. It's always there, closer
than our own breath, in everyone, at all times.
> I agree, to each their own, but if someone wants to use meditation
> expecting to strenghten the mind instead of setting it aside then
> they are feeding the enemy. I see no harm of posing this question
> especially concerning those new to meditation who are asking for
> advise on the subject of meditation.
Some may need a little mind strengthening. Many of us
are beset by thinking/personality disorders which must
be addressed, IMO, before we can begin to consider the
deconstruction of the mind. IOW, we've got to begin from
a place of mental integrity. Meditation can help to
establish and fortify this integrity. It is from this
platform of mental stability that one can jump off into the
activity of inquiry. Attempting inquiry without stability
is like trying to ride a bike with flat tires. You just
aren't going to get anywhere (in terms of authentic
inquiry,) and eventually the bike will get wrecked.
> BTW what's with the rote remark? Did i somehow offend you or am i
I wasn't offended, Hal, although I should admit to being
a bit grumpy. One of my pet peeves is the demonization
of the mind as somehow being responsible for ignorance.
The mind just does its thing. There's no blame in that.
One can come to realization in the context of an active
mind. It's not what the mind is doing or isn't doing,
it's what realization is expected to be that gets in
the way of its manifesting in a life. And the only one
to blame for that is the person holding the expectation.
I have found the lionshare of spiritual culture to be
just plain wrong about realization, mostly because most
of spiritual culture is transmitted by those who don't
have the experiential understanding themselves. It's
like people read a book on car repair, and suddenly they
are expert mechanics. In actual fact, one doesn't become
an expert mechanic without ripping apart many engines
outside of any books written on the subject.
I heard your advice to be along these lines, but I could
very well be mistaken on my part. If so, I'm sorry for
causing you any offense.
> > Making it somewhere to "get" to only makes it somewhere
> > you *believe* you aren't. In other words, putting that
> > carrot on the stick only makes us forget those carrots
> > already in our pocket, in abundance.
> > Different kinds of meditation work differently in different
> > kinds of people. The variance in methods is wide to
> > reflect the wide variance of people employing them.
> > What works or doesn't for you may have *nothing* to do
> > with what works or doesn't for others. For instance,
> > some might consider mantra meditation to be strengthing,
> > in that samskaras are created with the repetition of the
> > mantra. However, these samskaras can have the effect of
> > bringing more clarity to the mind, in some individuals.
> > > IOW, to each his/her own, and may his/her own find
> > their own way, in their own time, on their own terms,
> > outside of rote advice which has little to do with
> > the reality that is being spoken about.
> > >
> > --jody.