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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Digest Number 1027/jason

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  • Grant Bardsley
    Hi Jason, ... replying to the digest last time. Always drives me crazy when that happens and I m receiving. ... (which probably shows). Just wisps right off
    Message 1 of 1 , Jul 4, 2004
      Hi Jason,

      > Hi Grant, thanks for the share!
      > Apologies to you and the the other folks here for forgetting to edit when
      replying to the digest last time. Always drives me crazy when that happens
      and I'm receiving.
      > --- I thought it very clear. But then again I rarely edit the text I write
      (which >probably shows). Just wisps right off the cuff.

      I meant that I hadn't cut out redundant copied text, of which there's a lot,
      if you reply to the digest, ie not snipping.

      > >I've never been a buff or a big time knower of types and names of
      > I'm a terrible accumulator of gun names and models, the same with cinema,
      I remember names and faces on screen and directors. I've often been amazed
      at how effortless this is and opined at my failure to make any real use of
      this skill other than for fun.
      > --- Wow, thats great! I'm like that with music and cars. But for the most
      part my >memory is less then keen.

      My memory for this trivia stuff is getting worse now; maybe it's aging,
      maybe it's repeated blows to the top of the head (we live in a house with
      low doorways and I'm tallish).

      > >I'm >not a big gun fan
      > >in general for the simple fact that I just don't need a gun these days
      > hunting or >sharp
      > >shooting)
      > Mine's just for fun but at the same time it's not a toy and I keep it
      locked up and out of the way of the kids.
      > They like to shoot with me occasionally but are soon bored by the
      discipline and repetition.
      > --- Yea I understand. I don't do that well with repeatition either unless
      >it's >something that somehow really grabs me. My kids can't sit still for
      >much other >then movies and the tv. One or two of them can actually sit and
      >read an entire >book, but only on rare occasions of sheer bordem.

      Mine aren't reading yet but we live in the country and have plenty of books
      so we hope they'll get a taste for it.

      They'll sit down and draw or paint or make things (they're 6 and 3) but
      their concentration, while intense, is short-lived.

      > >and really don't want the responsability to keep them out of the hands
      > the kids,
      > >especially when they feel they want to impress thier friends. I know
      > are >ways to do this and
      > >teach them they shouldn't be pulling out weapons to show off, but that
      > would be >the only reason I
      > >would have a gun collection (to show them off). It's just too dangerous
      > have >them around, even
      > >when properly trained in the use.
      > I agree with you as far as bullet firing weapons are concerned. In England
      for instance the gun laws are very draconian making the ownership of any
      firearm a tricky proposition and i fully support them.
      > --- It's wierd for me... I'm not a big advocate of laws in general, but
      >somehow >it's slighty unnerving if I think about the new gun laws at the
      >local bar (pub) in that >someone might just have a gun, get drunk and start
      >firing off rounds when >someone looks at thier girlfriend wrong.

      I couldn't agree more. The type of conflict you describe is traditional
      outside pubs the length and breadth of the UK on friday nights at closing
      time. I'd dread to think what would happen if people were toting guns;
      enough damage is done with fists and glasses as it is.

      >This is the state of the US more often then not. From what I hear from
      friends, >they seem to be constently nervous of being injured and or killed,
      which is a huge >reason for this endless piles of laws we seem to have.
      > Where I live now (Portugal, just about to win the European cup by the way,
      if you're a soccer fan) everyone has a shotgun and goes hunting. Several
      hunters are blown away annually by other hunters, as well as thousands of
      small birds, rabbits, deer and boar.
      > --- Yes, shooting up the forest! We have that here pretty often too! Some
      of the >metro-parks here open up for dear season and there is pratically
      always a story >about how someone got shot in thier backyard trimming bushes
      or playing with >the dog.
      > >Not that I'm against gun ownership, especially >when people are
      > >smart about using them, but here in Ohio they just passed a law that
      > gun >owners rights to
      > >carry them concealed and there are just alot of angery people out there.
      > Yes.
      > I think it's a complex issue, the relationship between gun law and gun
      crime. In Canada for instance, while they have almost as many guns percapita
      as the states, they still have almost negligible rate of death by shooting.
      > --- True. I think the mentality is more stable in Canada. One major reason
      >is that >they have a form of government that actually tends to cater to the
      >desires of the >people and manages a health care system thats "free" as
      >well. The US >government is a tax junkie and the people pay every last cent
      >for greedy palms >>(including all sorts of insurances). I typically get
      >half my earned salary after >taxes .and I hear england is running close
      >behind in wage taxation. Costs for >goods here are very high in comparison
      >to income, but you might hardly notice it >on the surface in the middle
      >class areas.

      I can't remember what the rate of taxation was last time I looked but
      certainly the UK's NHS is a wonderful thing. In general the UK is spending
      more of its tax income socially since the Tories were defeated.

      > This was something highlighted in the excellent 'Bowling for Columbine' by
      Michael Moore; highly recommended as a doc. on these issues if you haven't
      caught it already.
      > --- No, I haven't maybe I'll check it out. For sure I'll add it to the
      growing list of docs to look into.
      > >Anywho, I'm glad to hear you actually enjoy the gun and shooting. I've
      > to >the range with
      > >friends and had a great time firing off rounds too! Funny how I just
      > have >any motivation
      > >for that kind of stress relief stuff anymore.
      > >Peace and Love
      > I'm glad to say that most of the time my shooting is just an agreeable
      leisure time activity; I hope to do some archery too one of these days.
      > In terms of stress relief, I often get hunched in my shoulders and neck
      from time at the PC and then a spot of shooting (by moonlight with the
      lasersight!) provides welcome relief from that particular stress, as does
      the throwing about of nunchukas from time to time.
      > --- Yes, that sounds like an all around great view to have of weapons in
      >general. >I enjoy doing all sorts of stuff by moonlight too, the moon is
      >such a draw!

      Yes; we look at it through a small telescope and can see craters. The
      landscape gets lit up so each feature is very stark and clear; beautiful.

      We have dogs and a cherry tree too so it can get very zennish.


      > Speaking of which.... I was enjoying the full moon tonight and noticed it
      >low in the sky but much smaller then it was last time when it was this low
      >in the sky. Last time, at arms length it measured aprox. 1 inch (sorry US
      .>standard measure). Yet tonight it's just a little over 1/4. It's
      >how many theories there are about why the moon appears so big when it's low
      >in the horizon, but tonight it's not. I guess I'm still in awe of such
      >mysteries. Perhaps the moons orbit does get shallower, but according to
      >science, it doesn't change in distance very much at all.

      Were asking similar questions ourselves just the other night. I favour the
      theory that says it looks bigger because of comparison with objects on the
      horizon and the horizon itself; without an object to compare it to its
      subjective size shrinks.

      The amount I don't know about astronomy and the movements of the planets
      fills several large libraries though.

      The skies here (southern portugal) are very clear and I love to look at the
      stars, without really knowing much about them. On most nights if you look up
      when you're outside (our bathroom is a walk away from our house) you'll see
      shooting stars.

      I was given a wonderful program that runs on real time and will print out
      star maps of the sky from your longitude and latitude. You can hold them at
      arms length next to the sky they represent and follow constellations; name
      stars. Red Shift 4 it's called, great piece of kit.

      > Hunter S Thompson was a big fan of destressing by shooting with large
      guns, as I recall.
      > Guns and knives and the martial arts in general carry a heavy non-pc
      anti-liberal charge as symbols, though there's an intimate relationship
      between the martial arts and religion; I've just read 'Zen in the Art of
      Archery' by Eugene Herrigel which is fascinating and all about this.
      > --- Is it anything like Zen and the art of motorcycle maintainence?

      Not in form but in essence.

      > I read that some years ago and wasn't too fond of the ideas behind the
      >comparison. Zen just feels so personal and abstract where motorcycle
      >maintainence more mechanical, geometric, general and scientific.

      As I remember it, it's more the process of maintenance, the craft/skill
      itself, rather than the technological object, that's being looked at for its

      In ZIAA, Herrigel is not allowed to practice Zen in Japan until he has
      mastered a Zen art, such as calligraphy, flower arranging or archery.

      To begin with, he is unsure how the art relates to the spiritual practice,
      seeing them as distinct. To begin with it is not clear that his archery
      master is also a master of Zen too.

      Eventually he reaches the position of shooting without intention, aim or
      control; of allowing IT to shoot through him.

      In ZIMM he talks about a similar flow in the care of motorcycle engines; a
      way that engines which have been maintained with care display this in their
      running. The care he's talking of should be capitalised really as it's
      analgous to zen practice.

      > There was just >alot of referencing to mechanation and logic in what it's
      like to >experience being >human. To me, the 2 are almost completely
      incompatable >comparisons.

      Yes, I seem to remember that there was alot of heavy philosophy stuff with
      his alter-ego Phaedrus or something, which I didn't enjoy at the time, but I
      think there is zen in the maintenance of engines, in motorcycles and engines
      and rivers.

      I see no difficulty in analogising humanity in machine terms; in my view, we
      are biological body/mind machines, conditioned by the collision of
      environment and psychophysical nature to behave/think/feel as we do.

      > Oh, which reminds me of a preview for a new movie thats comming out that I
      >saw before spiderman 2 this evening. It's about the human race building
      robots to >serve mankind, but then the robots attempt to take control (not a
      new idea, but >looks like fun for sci-fi/action buffs like me), adopting the
      human attributes of >power and desire.

      Yeah, 'I, Robot', does it look cool?

      Am an sf fan too and I wonder how close it will be to Asimov's original (not
      at all by the look of it). There was 'Bicentennial Man' that was made out of
      another of his books but I missed that, di you catch it? Just re-reading the
      classic 'Foundation' series again now. Bit dated and dry but good fun too!

      >It's starring Will Smith (who was a rapper, turned tv star, then >movie
      star) and >who I think is great and versatile, even in the more serious

      Yes, he's great in 'Men In Black' and 'Independence Day' and when he just
      started out in 'Six Degrees of Separation'.

      >Just some >thoughts as you mentioned cinema, spiderman 2 was awesome and
      >thrilling! >Better then the first one I think.


      Am a big Raimi fan, love comic books and thought the last one was fabulous.

      Nice slinging webs with you,

      > Peace and Love
      > ---------------------------------
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      > Message: 5
      > Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 05:06:06 -0700 (PDT)
      > From: Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@...>
      > Subject: Stepping away - Remote View
      > Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@...> wrote:
      > I've posted stuff like this before without much or any todo over it. I
      wonder if people on here just pass the experience by, perhaps no one here
      can't relate. I'd be interested in comments and/or thoughts.
      > Last night I set aside a little time for a practice that I used to do
      quite often, but stopped for the last experience was vapid and seemed
      deadly. It's a remote viewing of sorts, but it doen't seem to take on the
      quality that I have read about in the past. Most people that I have read on
      the experience of remote viewing describe it as a tearing away from the
      body, almost like a ripping can be heard/felt.
      > I did do a short travel last night and this is how it typically goes...
      > It's a must (I have found) to lie down, usually on my back, but most of
      the time it doesn't matter anymore what position. There are 3 stages. The
      first is a silent witness role, as in most meditation practices, of just
      getting into watch mode. It's not in breath control or any other exercise
      though, since what your looking to do is break away from the body. As I
      start to fall back the second stage is a heaviness, a sinking like a ton,
      but if I lift my arm during it feels normal, it's something else that gets
      heavy. This is where I usually used to bail out, it's very, very heavy as
      you follow it in. The third step is as the heaviness smooths out into a
      float, but the sensation is practically vacant, almost as if the feeling
      aspect is just residual. Like feeling limbs, eyes ears, etc. are just
      minimal sensations, but there is a very strong emotional feeling, not sure
      how to describe it because typically when there is feeling of emotion there
      is a bodily sensation that correspondes,
      > there just isn't that sort of sensation, it's very dull.
      > After that stage I'm there and can move about (as if by will). I don't
      feel a balance or local I only "see" local and very fainty "hear", both of
      which are very clear but ghostly in quality. I don't have perfect vision and
      usually cant read the clock across the room well, but in this "state" it's
      crystal clear, but hollow in appearence. It's almost like the reverse of
      what a ghostly image is to a physical body. If you pass your hand through a
      mist, thats what it's like with normally solid objects. There also seems to
      be a residual self image of a body going on too, as I have gone by a mirror,
      looked at myself and I look like I would "expect" myself to look like. I
      often don't get off far, for to long, maybe 10-12 feet from the body, then
      the heaviness kicks in and almost immediately I'm back.
      > I'm a pretty logical oriented person, all of this sounds far fetched, even
      in writting it. Part of it is "passing" on the logic of it "this can't be
      happening" which stops it pronto, although there may be a slight heaviness
      for a few minutes after. I can't suggest that any try it unless they have
      been in the heaviness stage before and know how that feels. It's not painful
      or anything, just very intense.
      > Since many of us here talk about meditation, yoga and spiritual practices,
      I'd really be interested in anyones thoughts or shares, save it though if
      you just think I'm hallucinating, I've already concidered that! Being an LSD
      user in the past, this aint nothing like that at all. Since Jeff isn't
      around anymore, no one "goes" there much these days with me, at least not on
      these lists.
      > Peace and Love
      > ---------------------------------
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