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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Knives vs Meditation

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  • Jason Fishman
    Hi Bob, Knife/blade making is actually a fun hobby, egads for me to say that, but it is. There is a craftsman like quality to many blades, which include
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 28, 2004
      Hi Bob,
       
      Knife/blade making is actually a fun hobby, egads for me to say that, but it is. There is a craftsman like quality to many blades, which include durability, this to it's lasting sharpness, it's stress factor (flexibility) and it's over-all girth (thinkness). The girth end is also significant to it's balanced use in the hands of humans, which there is throwing thrusting and swinging. Anyway, this is the draw, those factors are all about adaptability which inculdes the forementioned atributes. The side effect is the use of the blades in killing sports which is also best within survivalist mode and competitive modes of showmenship. If you take a gander, you'll find even larger forums for survialist groups, which includes guns, outbacking, home building models, water purifications, gardening, hunting, power generation, etc.
       
      The point here is, adaptability, health, stamina for the human genome is a popular past time. Meditations being just one aspect of this "betterment" of the human race even carries, in some social circles, a showmenship quality in what can be done with the body in the frame of the tuned in mind (firewalking, endurance, extreme temperature viability and even abstract skills of esp). Meditation is one of the greatest forms of sharpening the minds skill, yet often overlooked since it doesn't carry that object quality in the way that all the externals mentioned do. Of course unlike making blades, mediation takes even more time and personal energies to manifest even the slightest advantages.
       
      Object dependencies are extremely high at this stage, who knows for sure what the future might bring?
       
      Peace and Love

      medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
      We now have about 375 members, and our sister/brother
      meditation/nonduality/enlightenment/etc sites have as many as a little
      over double this. I recently became interested in collecting and
      learning how to make knives. I couldn't possibly tell you where or why
      this yen came into my consciousness, but there it was, and so I sought
      out information on the web about this (what I thought was) somewhat
      esoteric hobby/calling/material desire/whatever. Well, it turns out
      that one group I belong to has 24,000 members, another 16,000, and
      another 15,000. So, I guess what I'm wondering is what the
      significance of there being such a greater apparent interest in knives
      than in consciousness evolving subjects.
      Peace and blessings,
      Bob
      PS: Anybody know where I can get some good damascus blades at
      reasonable prices?:-)



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    • medit8ionsociety
      ... wrote: snip ... Dear Ninaji, This is another of those My, what a small universe this is type things! I carried a swiss army knife with the
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 28, 2004
        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Nina"
        <murrkis@y...> wrote:
        snip
        > You could say that knives can be consciousness evolving objects.
        >
        > My favorite knife is the swiss army serrated knife I've had for
        > camping and such. It is better than ginsu. I can saw down small
        > trees and then still slice tomatoes. Plus, it fits very nicely
        > in my purse. LOL! I admit that I have thought to have it near
        > as a defense (hehe, how universal is THAT?) a time or two, but
        > luckily have never had to use it in that capacity.
        >
        > Here is a link to an amazing knife store:
        > http://www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/eCommerce/prodlist.jsp?
        > Mode=Text&SearchText=damascus
        > I don't know how reasonable their prices are, but the
        > folks are "real nice" there. They are a little like a museum,
        > with lots of old, old knives on display, as well as knives
        > for sale.
        >
        > Bob, if you think knives are big, you haven't seen the traffic
        > this side of town on the gun show days. Yee haw!
        >
        > Nina

        Dear Ninaji,
        This is another of those "My, what a small universe this is" type
        things! I carried a swiss army knife with the amazingly effective
        serrated knife and used it virtually every day for 20+ years. Then,
        when my son was about to get married, I went looking for a good father
        to son gift for him. And naturally, I decided on giving him a
        concealed deadly weapon:-) This led me to the same Smokey Mountain
        knife company (and who, as you pointed out, now does have an excellent
        web-site http://www.eknifeworks.com ) that you kindly recommended. And
        you are so right! There are really nice people. I had found Dan a
        great turquoise knife and soon after I gave it to him, I realized that
        I'd like one for myself, because of it's beauty and quality
        construction, and as a keepsake of him (he lives in Arkansas, and me
        in the Philly area). So I called the Smokey people and found out that
        they had sold out of them. But over the course of the next 1 1/2
        years, they kept supplying me with leads of stores and people who may
        have them. And I did eventually find one, and have carried it ever
        since as the replacement to my swiss army knife (which I still do
        carry in my nursing equipment bag). I guess it was this search that
        first made me aware of knives and to begin appreciating "Man's first
        tool" on a different level. And now I know first hand what Gregji sees
        in the Chris Reeves, Benchmade autos, and balisongs knives he is
        interested in, and the understanding Sri Jason has of the craftmanship
        involved in their making. Similarly, since seeing Kill Bill 1 this
        weekend, I can see why Jason's son is into swords, and that the
        quality of sword construction it demonstrated verified in a way the
        supposition that "knives can be consciousness evolving objects".
        Peace and blessings,
        Bob
        PS: Seeing the popularity and political power of the NRA, I have no
        doubt that gun shows have an enormous and enthusiastic turnout.
      • Nina
        Wow, Bob, I hadn t realized how enduringly helpful as well as friendly those Smokey Mountain knife shop folks are! The website is great, but you don t get the
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 28, 2004
          Wow, Bob, I hadn't realized how enduringly helpful
          as well as friendly those Smokey Mountain knife shop
          folks are! The website is great, but you don't get
          the full effect unless you visit their store in
          person. It is a slice of the Smokey Mountains, a la
          Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg - not quite as over-the-top,
          mind you. Big heavy timbered stuff... and probably a
          chainsaw carving of a bear or two. Knives are nice with
          a little kitsch, you know... Lest you think it is all
          about knives, they also have quite an array of kitchen
          gadgets and "stuff"... something like a general store
          on steroids. Jam-packed full-o-stuff with something of
          a carnival atmosphere. My parents live within a longish
          driving distance of the store and it is where we went to
          find some wood carving knives for my dad.

          Nice story, btw.

          Nina
        • Gene Poole
          ... Spiritually oriented groups disdain cutting remarks; and everyone wants to be on the cutting edge. A good knife used well, never loses its temper.
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 28, 2004
            >medit8ionsociety <no_reply@y...> wrote:

            > We now have about 375 members, and our sister/brother
            > meditation/nonduality/enlightenment/etc sites have as many as a little
            > over double this. I recently became interested in collecting and
            > learning how to make knives. I couldn't possibly tell you where or why
            > this yen came into my consciousness, but there it was, and so I sought
            > out information on the web about this (what I thought was) somewhat
            > esoteric hobby/calling/material desire/whatever. Well, it turns out
            > that one group I belong to has 24,000 members, another 16,000, and
            > another 15,000. So, I guess what I'm wondering is what the
            > significance of there being such a greater apparent interest in knives
            > than in consciousness evolving subjects.
            > Peace and blessings,
            > Bob
            > PS: Anybody know where I can get some good damascus blades at
            > reasonable prices?:-)

            Spiritually oriented groups disdain
            cutting remarks; and everyone wants
            to be on the cutting edge.

            A good knife used well, never loses its temper.

            Participating in spiritual groups, can be
            a test of one's mettle.

            A private or smallish smithy/forging
            company can produce damascus steel
            for you. You can even learn how to
            design the billets, to render into the
            very patterns you desire.

            If you really get into it, you can buy/make
            your own forge setup, including a nifty
            automatic 'pounder', and stationary
            metal-cutting bandsaw, so that you can
            design and produce your own billets of
            damascus. You can fold them as much as
            you want.

            I find metal-working, especially forge
            work, to be a fine 'meditation'.


            ==Gene Poole==
          • no by
            Dear Bob, dear Gene Poole, dear Readers, even as German the language English as my second choice is more difficult to write and sometimes to understand. From
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 30, 2004
              Dear Bob, dear Gene Poole, dear Readers,
               
              even as German the language English
              as my second choice is more difficult
              to write and sometimes to understand.
               
              From this letter of my friend Gene Poole,
              well known and - in my way - respected
              meanwhil as worthy friend may I add my point?
               
              ''Forge work on metal'' needs a higher heat
              than i.e. cutting plum-cake into pieces -
              don't you agree about this natural law?
               
              When you get closer to this heat of fire,
              have you experienced uncomfortable reactions
              - like sweat, a desire to escape, to leave the place?
               
              Therefore to stand the heat of the fire, symbolized
              as ''hell fire'' in some cultures, from my P.o.V.
              a special conditioned training is inevitable.

              From my family and culture heritage this
              hard education is for ''warriors'' only -
              weak ones perish, die or leave in disgust.
               
              Gene Poole gets by the years of our friendship
              stronger and stronger in this warrior training,
              our longtime relationship brings sweets after sweat?
               
              Some rare ones with a longing for the ''heat of the fire'',
              some rare ones stand hot, hard forge work,
              real rare ones meditate on mind-knife, lovely art of attacks!
               
              n0by
               
               
              sheltering energy for my friend Gene Poole:
               

               

              http://www.n0by.de/2/rst/geenepool.htm

               
               
               
               
               
               



              Spiritually oriented groups disdain
              cutting remarks; and everyone wants
              to be on the cutting edge.

              A good knife used well, never loses its temper.

              Participating in spiritual groups, can be
              a test of one's mettle.

              A private or smallish smithy/forging
              company can produce damascus steel
              for you. You can even learn how to
              design the billets, to render into the
              very patterns you desire.

              If you really get into it, you can buy/make
              your own forge setup, including a nifty
              automatic 'pounder', and stationary
              metal-cutting bandsaw, so that you can
              design and produce your own billets of
              damascus. You can fold them as much as
              you want.

              I find metal-working, especially forge
              work, to be a fine 'meditation'.


              ==Gene Poole==


              http://n0by.de

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/n0by/


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              Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
            • medit8ionsociety
              ... Dear nOby, Well said, in any language. When we want to get a dirty white sheet clean, we drown it, put caustic substances on it, grind them in, drown them
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 30, 2004
                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, no by
                <n0by4you@y...> wrote:
                > Dear Bob, dear Gene Poole, dear Readers,
                >
                > even as German the language English
                > as my second choice is more difficult
                > to write and sometimes to understand.
                >
                > From this letter of my friend Gene Poole,
                > well known and - in my way - respected
                > meanwhil as worthy friend may I add my point?
                >
                > ''Forge work on metal'' needs a higher heat
                > than i.e. cutting plum-cake into pieces -
                > don't you agree about this natural law?
                >
                > When you get closer to this heat of fire,
                > have you experienced uncomfortable reactions
                > - like sweat, a desire to escape, to leave the place?
                >
                > Therefore to stand the heat of the fire, symbolized
                > as ''hell fire'' in some cultures, from my P.o.V.
                > a special conditioned training is inevitable.
                >
                > From my family and culture heritage this
                > hard education is for ''warriors'' only -
                > weak ones perish, die or leave in disgust.
                >
                > Gene Poole gets by the years of our friendship
                > stronger and stronger in this warrior training,
                > our longtime relationship brings sweets after sweat?
                >
                > Some rare ones with a longing for the ''heat of the fire'',
                > some rare ones stand hot, hard forge work,
                > real rare ones meditate on mind-knife, lovely art of attacks!
                >
                > n0by

                > sheltering energy for my friend Gene Poole:

                >
                > http://www.n0by.de/2/rst/geenepool.htm
                >
                Dear nOby,

                Well said, in any language. When we want to get a dirty white sheet
                clean, we drown it, put caustic substances on it, grind them in,
                drown them again, put them through the wringer, and finally iron them
                out with heat and pressure. And finally they are pure and clean.
                Similarly, as you point to, when we want to turn iron into steel, we
                heat it to the extreme and burn out the impurities. We then pound it
                into a usuable shape. This is analagous to what the seeker can expect
                on his quest to inner freedom, and meditation, self-enquery, and
                other so-called spiritual practices can be seen as the tools and
                actions to use to remove the impurities and make us strong and usable
                (by, as AA would put it, "The Higher Power"). And yes, it is a
                warrior ethic that leads to being ready, willing, and able to go
                through the spiritual fire.

                Peace and blessings,
                Bob
              • Gene Poole
                ... Thanks, n00b. ... It is yes, a matter of higher heat, needed to allow shaping of metal. But more than heat, really; the issue is TIME. An instance; how
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 30, 2004
                  >no by <n0by4you@y...> wrote:

                  > Dear Bob, dear Gene Poole, dear Readers,
                  >
                  > even as German the language English
                  > as my second choice is more difficult
                  > to write and sometimes to understand.
                  >
                  > From this letter of my friend Gene Poole,
                  > well known and - in my way - respected
                  > meanwhil as worthy friend may I add my point?

                  Thanks, n00b.


                  > ''Forge work on metal'' needs a higher heat
                  > than i.e. cutting plum-cake into pieces -
                  > don't you agree about this natural law?

                  It is yes, a matter of higher heat,
                  needed to allow shaping of metal.

                  But more than heat, really; the issue
                  is TIME.

                  An instance; how much time does
                  pass, before coal, becomes diamond,
                  even at the very high heat and pressure,
                  in the environment deep inside the
                  planet?

                  It is not an 'instant' process; and
                  because it can happen only in
                  certain ways, over a period of time,
                  'impatience' will not hasten the
                  transformation.

                  The same with metal forge work;
                  the 'finished product' will take an
                  amount of time, during which the
                  skill of the smithy is deployed.

                  Impatience, will serve only to dull
                  the skill, and also, will result in an
                  inferior end-product.

                  One who fires the forge for metal-
                  work, knows already, the factor of
                  time, and knows that there is no
                  short-cut. In this, we see the difference
                  between the master smithy, and the
                  impatient 'spiritual seeker'.

                  > When you get closer to this heat of fire,
                  > have you experienced uncomfortable reactions
                  > - like sweat, a desire to escape, to leave the place?

                  I and the forge, are one.

                  > Therefore to stand the heat of the fire, symbolized
                  > as ''hell fire'' in some cultures, from my P.o.V.
                  > a special conditioned training is inevitable.
                  >
                  > From my family and culture heritage this
                  > hard education is for ''warriors'' only -
                  > weak ones perish, die or leave in disgust.

                  Skill is learned over time; and skill is deployed
                  over time, to produce a desired product.

                  The heat, the skill, are for nothing,
                  if time is not respected.

                  Hitting harder, does not replace the
                  skill of the hit; the shaping of hot metal,
                  requires 'finesse', skill won by experience,
                  which is acquired by the virtue of patience,
                  and that patience, is simply an acknowledgment
                  of the reality of the relationship between
                  metal, and heat.

                  > Gene Poole gets by the years of our friendship
                  > stronger and stronger in this warrior training,
                  > our longtime relationship brings sweets after sweat?

                  My 'reward' for the sweat, is to be
                  able to exert my efforts with 'finesse';
                  so that, I am able to shape into fine detail,
                  what before, had been a crude lump.

                  > Some rare ones with a longing for the ''heat of the fire'',
                  > some rare ones stand hot, hard forge work,
                  > real rare ones meditate on mind-knife, lovely art of attacks!
                  >
                  > n0by

                  'Attack' is relative, is it not?

                  Does the tumor perceive the
                  scalpel of the surgeon as 'attack'?

                  And is the motive of the surgeon,
                  'attack', or is it creative, to preserve
                  and prolong the life of the patient?

                  These are among the issues,
                  which must be explored and
                  understood, before the Big Brain
                  can finally get about its real
                  business.

                  When these issues are understood,
                  the fulfillment of resonance with
                  one's true nature can be had; and
                  then, one is functioning above the
                  level of dire conflict.


                  ==Gene Poole==





                  > Spiritually oriented groups disdain
                  > cutting remarks; and everyone wants
                  > to be on the cutting edge.
                  >
                  > A good knife used well, never loses its temper.
                  >
                  > Participating in spiritual groups, can be
                  > a test of one's mettle.
                  >
                  > A private or smallish smithy/forging
                  > company can produce damascus steel
                  > for you. You can even learn how to
                  > design the billets, to render into the
                  > very patterns you desire.
                  >
                  > If you really get into it, you can buy/make
                  > your own forge setup, including a nifty
                  > automatic 'pounder', and stationary
                  > metal-cutting bandsaw, so that you can
                  > design and produce your own billets of
                  > damascus. You can fold them as much as
                  > you want.
                  >
                  > I find metal-working, especially forge
                  > work, to be a fine 'meditation'.
                  >
                  >
                  > ==Gene Poole==
                  >
                  >
                  > http://n0by.de
                  >
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/n0by/
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
                • no by
                  Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 18:50:38 -0000 From: Gene Poole Subject: Re: Knives vs Meditation: Forging a-head Thanks, n00b. But more than
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jul 2, 2004

                       Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 18:50:38 -0000
                       From: "Gene Poole" <gene_poole@...>
                    Subject: Re: Knives vs Meditation: Forging a-head


                    Thanks, n00b.


                    But more than heat, really; the issue
                    is TIME.

                     

                    Thanks, G.P. - great Priest or something like this? ;-)

                     

                    It looks like, you're right. Sure you are,
                    otherwise, who am I, to talk against your truth?

                    That brings my weird warrior's word work
                    to the point of _my_ real issues:

                    HELPLESSNESS!

                    My words are helpless, all what I've done,
                    utterly helpless - a growing helpless towards death!

                    My floppy finger in service of my mind, ego, existence,
                    my readers reactions or actions against/for or YAHHHN...

                    HELPLESSNESS!

                    Again and again I have to admit, ''I'' can ''do''nothing'' -
                    nothing can be done - like time runs out with each breath.

                    In this helplessness my way to the exit should surrender,
                    even in this I'm helpless - it happens or not -

                    Like friendship, enemies, love, hate or YAAAAHNNN,
                    helpless I am, helplessness is the issue, _my_ issue!

                     

                    n0by

                     

                    helpless

                    even to lazy to look up the dic,
                    who this word needs to written: HELPLESSNESS!

                    Helpless to share my helpless missing understading
                    for my helplessness - really I, I, I would prefer to help myself !

                     

                    But WHO AM I?

                     

                    helpless

                     

                    endless

                     

                    helpless

                     

                     

                    sobsobsob

                     


                     



                    http://n0by.de

                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/n0by/


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                  • Nina
                    Connection found between knives and meditation... Nina . . . http://www.throwzini.com/issue_91.html 2. GUEST COLUMN: KNIFE THROWING THERAPY by Jim Tengler
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jul 2, 2004
                      Connection found between knives and meditation...

                      Nina

                      . . .


                      http://www.throwzini.com/issue_91.html

                      2. GUEST COLUMN:

                      KNIFE THROWING THERAPY
                      by Jim Tengler

                      Hello, just thought I'd share a little something about what I
                      call "KTT" or "Knife Throwing Therapy". To fill you in quickly, I
                      have been throwing knives off and on for most of my life. I'm 41 now.
                      No competition or anything, just having fun.

                      About four and a half years ago I was in a bad motorcycle accident,
                      broke a lot of bones and had eight surgeries to try to repair some of
                      it. To make a long story short, I ended up with severe chronic pain
                      in a few areas.

                      One of the methods of trying to fight chronic pain is meditation and
                      one form of this meditation is called distractive meditation. What
                      that means is finding something that you have to concentrate on and
                      focus to help distract your mind from focusing on the pain. In the
                      process of finding something I could focus on and stay with for that
                      I decided to use knife throwing, since its something I love and you
                      need to focus on.

                      So I set up a target in the back yard and I've been throwing everyday
                      for months now. It turns out to be fantastic therapy for the pain and
                      a great way to relieve stress and a focused way to relieve anger and
                      frustration.

                      Plus my nine-year-old daughter who always wants to do stuff with Dad
                      has picked up the sport and loves it. And to be fair, when she really
                      focuses she can sometimes throw better than me. Kinda embarrasses me
                      sometimes but she's a natural.

                      Well that's about all. Just thought I'd pass on that knife throwing
                      could even have some medical benefits to it.

                      Happy throwing and stay safe.

                      Jim Tengler
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