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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Pallavi's question [Sandeep]

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  • sandeep
    Hi Gene, ... Why? A presentation got put-together by a child and then I was moved to upload it. It presents a scenario as seen by a pair of young eyes/mind.
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 3, 2004
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      Hi Gene,
       

      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      >
      From: "Gene Poole" <
      gene_poole@...>
      > To: <
      href="mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com">meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 10:52 PM
      > Subject:
      [Meditation Society of America] Re: Pallavi's question [Sandeep]
      >
      >
      > > >sandeep <
      face=Arial size=2>sandeepc@b...> wrote:
      > >
      > > > Deception,
      > > >
      > > > manipulations,
      > > >
      > > > modus-operandi,
      > > >
      > > > guilt,
      > > >
      > > >
      intentions,
      > > >
      > > > canniness deciphering through
      canniness,
      > > >
      > > > true compassion versus
      shame,
      > > >
      > > > needing a context to reply to a kid
      ....
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      ......all from a set of pictures put together by a kid.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > The making of the presentation, the
      collection of the pictures, using
      > the contrast
      > > between an
      ice-cream and survival,....sure,... that is savy young mind at
      >
      work.
      > > >
      > > > It is not a  bewildered
      presentation.
      > >
      > > No?
      > >
      > > Think
      again, wise one.
      > >
      > > On an email list, an esteemed person
      (you)
      > > posts what is claimed to be a presentation
      > >
      composed by a 12 YO girl; and this becomes
      > > an issue in itself,
      which it should be.
       
      Why?
      A presentation got put-together by a child and then I was moved to upload it.
       
      It presents a scenario as seen by a pair of young eyes/mind.
       
      That's all that happened, that's all that took place, as far as this List is concerned.
       
      What it all represented to you Gene, the issues that appear relevant to you,.........you believe, you don't believe, your need for proof, whether it is bewildering stuff or it's not,..... whether there is an agenda behind that posting.....all that is your stuff.
       
      And no doubt very relevant for Gene.
       
       
       

      > >
      > > Sandeep, what is going
      on with you? Do you imagine that you can or do control how any
      > >
      posting is received?
       
       
      eh?
       
      When did I ever say, that the post SHOULD be received like such and such.
       
      All the "shoulds" appear to be from your side.
       
      As I said earlier, if you have an answer for Pallavi and you are moved to articulate it, ...please do so.
       
      if you don't,..that's your answer.
       

      > >
      > > Do you imagine that responses which
      are at variance with what you want to hear, are somehow
      > > indicative
      of flaws or shortcomings in the respondent?
       
       
      And do you imagine,........that's what I imagine?
       
      There is no variance dear Gene, for the simple reason, there is no expectation on what a response is to be from you, or from anybody else.
       
       
       

      > >
      > > My comment was that I have no proof
      that this PP was actually made by a 12 YO girl; and that is
      > > still
      an issue for me. I have no proof that you have 'hugged her'  as she experienced her perplexity.
       
       
      That lack of proof is an issue for Gene, .........noted.
       
       
       

      > >
      > > Frankly, as seen from here, the
      issue of 'what you (Sandeep) are up to, is an important one.
       
      Oh, the usual hoopla.:-)
       
      Nah, suggest what is of more importance, is the belief, that behind a happening,.............there is to be an "up-to agenda".
       

      > >
      > > Are you trying to bring up in the
      reader, resonance with the suffering of the endangered and deprived?
       
      :-)
      A resonance for truly to be a resonance,...............just arises in the moment, to an impacting input.
       
      It cannot be contrived, neither by the poster or the one who views a posting.
       

      > >
      > > I am sorry to say, that no such
      effort is required in
      > > my case.
       
      Noted.
       
      No effort was being made for anybody's case, irrespective of how the posting was seen.
       
       
       
       
      > I am fully 'resonant' with the plight of the
      > > suffering innocents of this world. I am 'sorry to say',
      > > for
      the simple reason that I wish that I too were 'innocent';
      > > but, it
      is too late for me. I may not be 'innocent' in the
      > > same way as the
      putative suffering 12 YO girl, but neither
      > > am I 'guilty' of causing
      her any suffering.
       
       
      Fine.
      Was not seeking a confirmation from you Gene, anyway.
      Or from anybody.
       
       
       
       
       

      > >
      > > So what the hell is up with you,
      Sandeep? Where is your usual 'doo be doo be doo' non-attachment.
       
       
      LOL
       
      It remains dooo bee doo bee dooo.
       
      The lint in ear or the wax in the eye, deafens the doo bee dooing.
       
       
       
      >and why do
      > > you now hold everyone to your
      unstated standards of
      > > morality?
       
       
      LOL
       
      Holding everyone to some unstated standards of morality.
       
      Come on Gene, get some wadrobe to malfunction.
       
       

      > >
      > > These are serious questions from
      me, Sandeep; please let  me know. Please post your answer here.
      > >
      > > 12YO girls... kittens, puppies, dead babies and ice
      cream;
      > > are those REALLY the imagery which are relevant to a
      12YO
      > > girl, in a 3rd world country?
       
       
      Interesting Gene.
       
      So you suppose 12YO girls... kittens, puppies, dead babies and ice cream, are not relevant in a 3rd world country?
       
      Have you ever travelled to a 3rd world country?
       
       
       
      Incidentally, it's not so much of "haves" versus have-nots"
       
      If you see the second set of pictures, it's more about kids caught in a war-scenario.
       
      For Pallavi, as much I have gathered, it's not so much as the deprivation,.... as much as kids paying the cost,....... when adults are busy settling scores.
       

       
    • Gene Poole
      ... Hi Sandeep... thanks for your reply. I have digested it. (burp!) Here is this: http://texaschapbookpress.com/filicide01preface.htm From there: Both the
      Message 2 of 3 , Feb 4, 2004
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        >sandeep <sandeepc@b...> wrote:

        > Hi Gene,
        >

        Hi Sandeep... thanks for your reply.

        I have digested it. (burp!)

        Here is this:

        http://texaschapbookpress.com/filicide01preface.htm

        From there:

        "Both the revolutionary and the reactionary find it possible to
        act bloodily and to justify their actions through an extreme form of
        identification with various patterns of violence. The revolutionary
        has an answer to the world's problems and attempts to make the
        world over into that answer. The reactionary finds the status quo
        pleasantly worthwhile and strives mightily to defend it. One of the
        pitfalls in the process of discriminating violences is the
        construction of one's personality in such a way that the
        personality comes to equate itself with the very act of
        discrimination.

        "So we take the process of perception one step farther and call it
        "apperception." Apperception may be understood as doubly removed
        self-consciousness. Put another way, it is thinking thinking about
        thinking. It is a nonjudgmental rendering of the self in all its
        facets, both violent and nonviolent. We arrive again at paradox:
        it is the self observed and--another Western heresy--not
        interfered with. (The Heisenberg Principle is only an externalization
        of filicidal violence down to the quantum realm.)"


        ==Gene Poole==
      • sandeep
        ... From: Gene Poole To: Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 02:29 PM Subject: [Meditation
        Message 3 of 3 , Feb 4, 2004
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Gene Poole" <gene_poole@...>
          Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 02:29 PM
          Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Pallavi's question [Sandeep]

          > >sandeep <sandeepc@b...> wrote:
          >
          > > Hi Gene,
          > >
          >
          > Hi Sandeep... thanks for your reply.
          >
          > I have
          digested it. (burp!)
           
           
          :-)
           
          You are welcome.
           
           

          >
          > Here is this:
          >
          >
          href="http://texaschapbookpress.com/filicide01preface.htm">http://texaschapbookpress.com/filicide01preface.htm
          >
          > From there:
          >
          > "Both the
          revolutionary and the reactionary find it possible to
          > act bloodily and
          to justify their actions through an extreme form of
          > identification with
          various patterns of violence. The revolutionary
          > has an answer to the
          world's problems and attempts to make the
          > world over into that answer.
          The reactionary  finds the status quo
          > pleasantly worthwhile and
          strives mightily to defend it.
           
           
          Yes, both accept the independent existential reality of that, ..............which one wants to change and the other wishes to resist any change to that.
           
          The rebel and the establishment,...........both as much identified.
           
           
           
          > One of the
          > pitfalls in the
          process of discriminating violences is the
          > construction of one's
          personality in such a way that the
          > personality comes to equate itself
          with the very act of
          > discrimination.
           
           
          Or to put it in another way,.........a prevailing sense of discrimination along with an associated sense of a stake with the discrimnation, ..............is the sense of the person.
           
          The body-mind organism, wired for survival and perpetuation does discriminate between what it senses as a threat to it's survival or what it senses as an opportunity to "malfunction some wardrobe" (appropriate pheromones gets exuded, in either case )
           
          The body fears and lusts, but is not anxious with either.
           
          The failure to address the fear may prove painful for the body,.............the loss of an opportunity for some nookey may mean raging hormones......but "suffering" is an alien concept for the body.
           
          Suffering being connoted as the sense of 'WHY ME",................. at the advent of pain. 
           
          Suffering, anxiety, insecurity, anguish,........... need to seek/achieve/attain/obtain,.................the pleasures of the persona.
           
           

          >
          >
          "So we take the process of perception one     step farther and call it
          > "apperception." Apperception may be understood
          as     doubly removed
          > self-consciousness. Put
          another way, it is thinking thinking about
          > thinking. It is a
          nonjudgmental rendering of the self in all its
          > facets, both violent and
          nonviolent. We arrive again at paradox:
          > it is the self observed
          and--another Western     heresy--not
          > interfered
          with. (The Heisenberg Principle is only an externalization
          > of filicidal
          violence down to the quantum realm.)"
           
           
          Apperception, is as much a conceptual term as the terms, realization, awakening, understanding, enlightenment.
           
          It is a mere pointing,................. to a perceiving,...............without a perceiver thereof.
           
          A perceiving of the immanence,...............in simultaneous transcendence.
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
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