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[Meditation Society of America] Re: Pallavi's question/shape the hell up

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  • Onniko
    ... intent. ... that seems to be a pretty predictable way as well. ... only a child that suffers at the hands of the haves greedy fingers. The suffering of
    Message 1 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fishman
      <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Gene Poole <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
      >
      > It appears to me that this powerpoint file was
      > NOT created by a 12YO girl, although one may
      > have been involved in its production.
      >
      > ___ Not very relevant, either way who the author was/is or the
      intent.
      >
      > I agree with Nina and Bruce's assessment; and
      > although some discussion has been forthcoming,
      > my suggestion is that yes, the thing is definitely
      > manipulative and yes, it does assume that there is
      > already a context within the 'reader' which will be
      > prompted to react in a certain predictable way, as
      > has Jason.
      >
      > ___ I suppose I could have easily discarded it with the junk mail,
      that seems to be a pretty predictable way as well.
      >
      > Babies? Puppies? Kittens?
      >
      > Dead babies? Where are the
      > dead puppies and dead kittens?
      >
      > ___ Death isn't at odds here, nor is it being presented that it's
      only a child that suffers at the hands of the haves greedy fingers.
      The suffering of animals is fairly relevent as well, but since we
      have no real, put forth ability to reduce this long time standing of
      suffering people (at the hands of haves), we'd be hard pressed to
      reduce the suffering scenerio of animals as well. This presentation
      just happened to be from a supposed 12 year old (I have an eleven
      year old that has done some similar presentations quite on his own.)

      *v* That's a good point, Jason. It's actually very typical
      of that age group as their creative efforts are often
      directed to emotional areas of life. The concrete is being
      expanded to the abstract and the area of compassion for
      others is being explored.


      Presentation from adults describe similar situations and a need for
      help in those areas. If all this is so well known and typical, then
      the answer should be pretty typical and well known as well.
      Apparently belaboring intent is the answer? HaHa.
      >
      >
      >
      > Peace and Love
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Do you Yahoo!?
      > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
    • carolina112900
      Gene. What can I do if in this case you are mistaking sanity for drunkenness? Nothing. Think what you want, OK? ~~freyja
      Message 2 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
        Gene.

        What can I do if in this
        case you are mistaking sanity
        for drunkenness?

        Nothing.

        Think what you want, OK?

        ~~freyja

        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Poole"
        <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
        > >freyjartist@a... wrote: (attribution manually added by author)
        >
        > Gene Had written:
        >
        > > <<It appears to me that this powerpoint file was
        > > NOT created by a 12YO girl, although one may
        > > have been involved in its production.
        > >
        > > I agree with Nina and Bruce's assessment; and
        > > although some discussion has been forthcoming,
        > > my suggestion is that yes, the thing is definitely
        > > manipulative and yes, it does assume that there is
        > > already a context within the 'reader' which will be
        > > prompted to react in a certain predictable way, as
        > > has Jason.
        > >
        > > Babies? Puppies? Kittens?
        > >
        > > Dead babies? Where are the
        > > dead puppies and dead kittens?
        > >
        > > And Freyja, are you drunk, or what?>>
        > >
        >
        > Freya responded:
        >
        > > Drunk? Why? because
        > > you're not agreeing with
        > > my assessment?
        >
        > You call that an 'assessment'?
        >
        > > Which does
        > > not obviously align with Nina and Bruce's?
        > > Not drunk, just getting radical here
        > > today.
        >
        > A well-known behaviour of the intoxicated.
        >
        > > The thing is manipulative
        > > IF you see it that way,
        > > that's all, but it doesn't
        > > mean it absolutely is.
        >
        > 'Absolutely' was not an attribute
        > assigned by me!
        >
        > (straw-man argument fails)
        >
        > > The other thing
        > > is, it depends who is viewing
        > > the thing, who it is being shown to,
        > > what are the qualities of
        > > the demographic sample.
        >
        > Well, duh!
        >
        > (appeal to popularity argument fails)
        >
        > > People on this list may have differing
        > > reactions, but in the spirit of self-inquiry,
        > > which I am sure is occuring in many of the
        > > members,
        > > there is no need to dismiss this piece
        > > out of hand as "manipulative".
        >
        > 'Dismiss'? I did not 'dismiss' it at all!
        >
        > Your 'assessment' is still requested!
        >
        > So far, you have 'assessed' only the
        > other 'assessors'.
        >
        > > <<Good grief!
        > >
        > > Oh yeah? so what does Lucy
        > > say to Charlie Brown when
        > > he says "Good Grief?"
        > >
        > > "You're such a bonehead, Charlie Brown!"
        > >
        > > ~~freyja
        >
        > Projections noted!
        >
        >
        > ==Gene Poole==
      • sandeep
        Deception, manipulations, modus-operandi, guilt, intentions, canniness deciphering through canniness, true compassion versus shame, needing a context to reply
        Message 3 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
          Deception,
           
          manipulations,
           
          modus-operandi,
           
          guilt,
           
          intentions,
           
          canniness deciphering through canniness,
           
          true compassion versus shame,
           
          needing a context to reply to a kid ....
           
           
           
          ......all from a set of pictures put together by a kid.
           
           
          The making of the presentation, the collection of the pictures, using the contrast between an ice-cream and survival,....sure,... that is savy young mind at work.
           
          It is not a  bewildered presentation.
           
          The bewilderment is in Pallavi seeing her world, as she sees it, ..........where,........ in her words "if I am not asking for someone else's ice-cream, why cannot I be left alive, unhurt and not hungry, and with my Papa".
           
          Yes Jason, it was/is essentially for her,........ " Why has it to be this way?"
           
           
           
          If anybody has an answer for Pallavi and you are moved to articulate it,..........do so.
           
           
          The rest of the load of crap,............... just uses up band-width.
           
          Thank you Melody
          Why am I not suprised that you, if at all you would respond, ..........it would be to Pallavi....:-). 
           
           
          Nina, what was my answer?
           
          Nothing.Or not in words.
           
          I just held Pallavi in my arms, till her sobs ceased.
           
          Maybe, some other time, words may be needed.
           
          I will await for that need, the moment of that need and for the words to arise in that moment.
           
          If they do.
           
          Jason, you were intrigued why that file to this List and not to others.
          It has got uploaded to a few more.
          Any particular one that you feel I have missed?
           
          To most on the Democracy List, I had sent as personal emails. Many bounced back, after hours of uploading time.
          Hence decided the List route.
           
           
           
          Bob,.............Yes.
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
          And Freyja,.................:-)
           
          As you see, a live display of.........an arriving moment,................the immediate rising of a "what else is there to that moment".
           
           
           
           
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Melody" <melodyande@...>
          Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 05:36 AM
          Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Pallavi's question

          >
          > > >
          > > > What would you Nina, like to
          answer her?
          > >
          > > No, no, you posted the original, please
          do go first as
          > > regards what you would like to answer her.
          > >
          > > Nina
          >
          >
          >
          > Here....I'll
          start.
          >
          >
          > Dear Pallavi,
          >
          > The reason why
          some kids are concerned with
          > flavors of ice cream, while other kids
          are
          > concerned with surviving
          >
          > can be found within the
          question itself:
          > the word "other".
          >
          > As long as some
          people are regarded as
          > "not us", they will need to keep
          scratching
          > and clawing for their physical
          survival.
        • Jason Fishman
          sandeep wrote:Deception, manipulations, modus-operandi, guilt, intentions, canniness deciphering through canniness, true compassion
          Message 4 of 25 , Feb 3, 2004


            sandeep <sandeepc@...> wrote:
            Deception,
             
            manipulations,
             
            modus-operandi,
             
            guilt,
             
            intentions,
             
            canniness deciphering through canniness,
             
            true compassion versus shame,
             
            needing a context to reply to a kid ....
             
            ___ Yup all this on a meditation group, none the less. Simply ironic.
             
            ......all from a set of pictures put together by a kid.
             
             
            The making of the presentation, the collection of the pictures, using the contrast between an ice-cream and survival,....sure,... that is savy young mind at work.
             
            It is not a  bewildered presentation.
             
            The bewilderment is in Pallavi seeing her world, as she sees it, ..........where,........ in her words "if I am not asking for someone else's ice-cream, why cannot I be left alive, unhurt and not hungry, and with my Papa".
             
            Yes Jason, it was/is essentially for her,........ " Why has it to be this way?"
             
            __ I think it's essentially that way for alot of people or maybe even ALL people. The driving question "why" moves people daily.
             
            If anybody has an answer for Pallavi and you are moved to articulate it,..........do so.
             
            __ As far as the answer, a ditto from me on Melody's post.
             
            The rest of the load of crap,............... just uses up band-width.
             
            Thank you Melody
            Why am I not suprised that you, if at all you would respond, ..........it would be to Pallavi....:-). 
             
             
            Nina, what was my answer?
             
            Nothing.Or not in words.
             
            I just held Pallavi in my arms, till her sobs ceased.
             
            Maybe, some other time, words may be needed.
             
            I will await for that need, the moment of that need and for the words to arise in that moment.
             
            If they do.
             
            ___ Moving words, Moreso then the presentation.
             
            Jason, you were intrigued why that file to this List and not to others.
            It has got uploaded to a few more.
            Any particular one that you feel I have missed?
             
            ___ Not really, I'm not on many to take note. Your post would have gotten picked apart on most of the others, if it hadn't simply been somewhat ignored. The real problem is, it's not MY problem. Non-dual or religious schema aside.
             
            To most on the Democracy List, I had sent as personal emails. Many bounced back, after hours of uploading time.
            Hence decided the List route.
             
            __ Makes sense. I was curious if there was an instinct that there might be people more moved to write thier hearts here, then say over at the ranch. Not important just curious.
             
            I tend to think there is a great deal of dishonesty, here, there and everywhere. I think there is a buch of liars in among self-inquirers, among the politics of social behavior, I think it's not MY problem, knowing full well whats at play, is the biggest lie one can tell, along with playing out that lie as it trickles through the world.
             
            Since the issue was brought up as to intention here, I really could give a crap where it came from. Only that it's truthful, that it is what everyone deals with, whittingly or not, daily. Unless of course one is in a coma ;-)
             
            Do I think this has been going on for centuries? yup!
             
            Do I think it has gotten better since the cavemen? Absolutely no doubt, it has. Much farther away we are then survival of the fittest. I really don't have to do much and someone somewhere will "help" me out. Which at some point will be my reality, if I live that long.
             
            I typically see a continued clawing at the bounderies that keep us at odds, that keep this play of money/stuff/power, deforrestation, sucking up natural resources (irresponsibly), screwing up the enviroment, etc. etc. We have tons more to learn, no doubt...Hopefully we KEEP trying at it, trying to be more honest, more in tune with what keeps us living "creatures" on this planet. There is one thing for certain to me is I'm gonna die as a human body, best live as freely as a human body as I can (as responsibly as I can), without hindering "other" human bodies desire to live as well. Otherwise we mine as well blow the whole damn place up!
             
            YEA, YEA... I've heard it said a billion times too... And so it goes...
             
            Peace and Love


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          • Nina
            ... Nope, all from your initial refusal to reply to my simple question. All from your initial turning of that question back around on me. If you wonder why
            Message 5 of 25 , Feb 3, 2004
              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sandeep
              <sandeepc@b...> wrote:
              > Deception,
              >
              > manipulations,
              >
              > modus-operandi,
              >
              > guilt,
              >
              > intentions,
              >
              > canniness deciphering through canniness,
              >
              > true compassion versus shame,
              >
              > needing a context to reply to a kid ....
              >
              >
              >
              > ......all from a set of pictures put together by a kid.

              Nope, all from your initial refusal to reply to
              my simple question. All from your initial turning
              of that question back around on me. If you wonder
              why that is, you might look to why you felt you
              had to hide your answer and could not write it
              flat-out as an accompaniment to your original post.
              Even saying, "Nothing. Or, not in words," would have
              sufficed.

              We weren't replying to Pallavi, as you had to. We were
              replying to your post, which you did not want to
              take responsibility for. Your choice, but don't go
              berating us for a perception of heartlessness.
              It was a psychological game, where the
              question is offered up as a way to force the outing
              of another's strategy, and where you, and anyone
              who expressed a heartrend or an appropriate
              'what is arising' answer, would win. Sandeep, from
              what I have seen of you on these lists, you are
              way too smart to not realize this action.

              Pretty much, you replied 'as expected'...
              from the 'high horse'... after everyone else
              had 'stuck their horse necks out'... and with
              the summary dismissal of everyone else's
              'replies'.

              Bandwidth doesn't discriminate between
              horse shit and helpfulness.

              Have the nicest of days, really.

              Nina

              > The making of the presentation, the collection of the pictures,
              using the contrast between an ice-cream and survival,....sure,...
              that is savy young mind at work.
              >
              > It is not a bewildered presentation.
              >
              > The bewilderment is in Pallavi seeing her world, as she sees
              it, ..........where,........ in her words "if I am not asking for
              someone else's ice-cream, why cannot I be left alive, unhurt and not
              hungry, and with my Papa".
              >
              > Yes Jason, it was/is essentially for her,........ " Why has it to
              be this way?"
              >
              >
              >
              > If anybody has an answer for Pallavi and you are moved to
              articulate it,..........do so.
              >
              >
              > The rest of the load of crap,............... just uses up band-
              width.
              >
              > Thank you Melody
              > Why am I not suprised that you, if at all you would
              respond, ..........it would be to Pallavi....:-).
              >
              >
              > Nina, what was my answer?
              >
              > Nothing. Or not in words.
              >
              > I just held Pallavi in my arms, till her sobs ceased.
              >
              > Maybe, some other time, words may be needed.
              >
              > I will await for that need, the moment of that need and for the
              words to arise in that moment.
              >
              > If they do.
            • wrmspirit@aol.com
              Bandwidth doesn t discriminate between horse shit and helpfulness. Have the nicest of days, really. Nina The release of horse shit becomes helpful for a
              Message 6 of 25 , Feb 3, 2004
                Bandwidth doesn't discriminate between
                horse shit and helpfulness.

                Have the nicest of days, really.

                Nina


                The release of horse shit becomes helpful for a constipated horse who cares not that another may step in it.......For the fly it becomes attractive, for the shoe, a nuisance, for the earth, fertilizer...
              • sandeep
                ... From: Nina To: Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 06:25 PM Subject: [Meditation Society of
                Message 7 of 25 , Feb 3, 2004
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Nina" <murrkis@...>
                  To: <meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 06:25 PM
                  Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sandeep's question



                  > Have the nicest of days, really.
                  >
                  > Nina


                  Thank you Nina.

                  Do you have anything to say for Pallavi?
                • Nina
                  ... I d probably give her a hug and tell her I don t have an answer. Nina
                  Message 8 of 25 , Feb 3, 2004
                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sandeep
                    <sandeepc@b...> wrote:
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "Nina" <murrkis@y...>
                    > To: <meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 06:25 PM
                    > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sandeep's question
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > > Have the nicest of days, really.
                    > >
                    > > Nina
                    >
                    >
                    > Thank you Nina.
                    >
                    > Do you have anything to say for Pallavi?

                    I'd probably give her a hug and tell her I don't have an answer.

                    Nina
                  • sandeep
                    ... From: Nina To: Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 07:43 PM Subject: [Meditation Society of
                    Message 9 of 25 , Feb 3, 2004
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Nina" <murrkis@...>
                      Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 07:43 PM
                      Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sandeep's question

                      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sandeep
                      > <
                      face=Arial size=2>sandeepc@b...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > >
                      From: "Nina" <
                      murrkis@y...>
                      > > To:
                      <
                      meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 06:25
                      PM
                      > > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sandeep's
                      question
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > 
                      > > > Have
                      the nicest of days, really.
                      > > >
                      > > > Nina
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Thank you Nina.
                      > >
                      > > Do
                      you have anything to say for Pallavi?
                      >
                      > I'd probably give her a
                      hug and tell her I don't have an answer.
                      >
                      > Nina
                       
                       
                       
                      Thank you.
                       
                       
                    • Gene Poole
                      ... between an ice-cream and survival,....sure,... that is savy young mind at work. ... No? Think again, wise one. On an email list, an esteemed person (you)
                      Message 10 of 25 , Feb 3, 2004
                        >sandeep <sandeepc@b...> wrote:

                        > Deception,
                        >
                        > manipulations,
                        >
                        > modus-operandi,
                        >
                        > guilt,
                        >
                        > intentions,
                        >
                        > canniness deciphering through canniness,
                        >
                        > true compassion versus shame,
                        >
                        > needing a context to reply to a kid ....
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ......all from a set of pictures put together by a kid.
                        >
                        >
                        > The making of the presentation, the collection of the pictures, using the contrast
                        between an ice-cream and survival,....sure,... that is savy young mind at work.
                        >
                        > It is not a bewildered presentation.

                        No?

                        Think again, wise one.

                        On an email list, an esteemed person (you)
                        posts what is claimed to be a presentation
                        composed by a 12 YO girl; and this becomes
                        an issue in itself, which it should be.

                        Sandeep, what is going on with you? Do you
                        imagine that you can or do control how any
                        posting is received?

                        Do you imagine that responses which are at
                        variance with what you want to hear, are somehow
                        indicative of flaws or shortcomings in the respondent?

                        My comment was that I have no proof that this
                        PP was actually made by a 12 YO girl; and that is
                        still an issue for me. I have no proof that you have
                        'hugged her' as she experienced her perplexity.

                        Frankly, as seen from here, the issue of 'what you
                        (Sandeep) are up to, is an important one.

                        Are you trying to bring up in the reader, resonance
                        with the suffering of the endangered and deprived?

                        I am sorry to say, that no such effort is required in
                        my case. I am fully 'resonant' with the plight of the
                        suffering innocents of this world. I am 'sorry to say',
                        for the simple reason that I wish that I too were 'innocent';
                        but, it is too late for me. I may not be 'innocent' in the
                        same way as the putative suffering 12 YO girl, but neither
                        am I 'guilty' of causing her any suffering.

                        So what the hell is up with you, Sandeep? Where is your
                        usual 'doo be doo be doo' non-attachment. and why do
                        you now hold everyone to your unstated standards of
                        morality?

                        These are serious questions from me, Sandeep; please
                        let me know. Please post your answer here.

                        12YO girls... kittens, puppies, dead babies and ice cream;
                        are those REALLY the imagery which are relevant to a 12YO
                        girl, in a 3rd world country?

                        Thank you...

                        ==Gene Poole==
                      • Onniko
                        ... using the contrast between an ice-cream and survival,....sure,... that is savy young mind at work. ... it, ..........where,........ in her words if I am
                        Message 11 of 25 , Feb 3, 2004
                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sandeep
                          <sandeepc@b...> wrote:
                          > Deception,
                          >
                          > manipulations,
                          >
                          > modus-operandi,
                          >
                          > guilt,
                          >
                          > intentions,
                          >
                          > canniness deciphering through canniness,
                          >
                          > true compassion versus shame,
                          >
                          > needing a context to reply to a kid ....
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ......all from a set of pictures put together by a kid.
                          >
                          >
                          > The making of the presentation, the collection of the pictures,
                          using the contrast between an ice-cream and survival,....sure,...
                          that is savy young mind at work.
                          >
                          > It is not a bewildered presentation.
                          >
                          > The bewilderment is in Pallavi seeing her world, as she sees
                          it, ..........where,........ in her words "if I am not asking for
                          someone else's ice-cream, why cannot I be left alive, unhurt and not
                          hungry, and with my Papa".
                          >
                          > Yes Jason, it was/is essentially for her,........ " Why has it to
                          be this way?"
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > If anybody has an answer for Pallavi and you are moved to
                          articulate it,..........do so.
                          >
                          >
                          > The rest of the load of crap,............... just uses up band-
                          width.
                          >
                          > Thank you Melody
                          > Why am I not suprised that you, if at all you would
                          respond, ..........it would be to Pallavi....:-).
                          >
                          >
                          > Nina, what was my answer?
                          >
                          > Nothing.Or not in words.
                          >
                          > I just held Pallavi in my arms, till her sobs ceased.
                          >

                          *v* Oh? Are you saying that there is a real Pallavi which you
                          personally know and who was crying over the children who did
                          not have peace and creature comforts?

                          That surprizes me because I've seen many children around that age
                          who have made art of the public appeals variety and they were as far
                          from crying as is they were lying on the beach licking a
                          cone. Not to say they were callous, but rather that they
                          felt very good about what they did to help make everyone see
                          the injustice that they so recently learned to see.

                          Their feeling for the children they depicted was never sorrow,
                          but was in a way, more of a detached compassion for
                          something they felt the old people in power needed to
                          be reminded of. Those children would have seen a hug as
                          an insult to their intelligence, or a typical adult
                          brushing off of the 'poor sad little kid', a very patronizing
                          response to what they felt was their very insightful media efforts.

                          Actually, if there was a Pallavi who reads in here
                          I'd want to tell you that you did a great job in putting that
                          thought provolking public service announcement together. It
                          is artistically pleasing as well as remaining clear and to the
                          point while holding the interest of the viewer. The use of
                          the question was smart because it makes the viewer think,
                          whereas so often the authority method of script turns people
                          off. Nice presentation, Pallavi.
                        • sandeep
                          ... From: Onniko To: Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 01:42 AM Subject: [Meditation Society
                          Message 12 of 25 , Feb 3, 2004
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Onniko" <onniko@...>
                            Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 01:42 AM
                            Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Pallavi's question


                            > >
                            > > I just held Pallavi in
                            my arms, till her sobs ceased.
                            > >
                            >
                            > *v* Oh? Are you
                            saying that there is a real Pallavi which you
                            > personally know and who
                            was crying over the children who did
                            > not have peace and creature
                            comforts?
                             
                            Yes.
                            And it is more about the consequences for children caught in war zones and conflict situation, rather than of endemic deprivations.

                            >
                            > That surprizes me because I've seen many
                            children around that age  who have made art of the public appeals variety and they >were as far  from crying as is they were lying on the beach licking a cone. Not to say they were callous, but rather that they
                            >
                            felt very good about what they did to help make everyone see the injustice that they so recently learned to see.
                            >
                            > Their feeling for the children they depicted was
                            never sorrow, but was in a way, more of a detached compassion for
                            >
                            something they felt the old people in power needed to be reminded of. Those children would have seen a hug as
                            > an insult to their intelligence, or a
                            typical adult brushing off of the 'poor sad little kid', a very patronizing
                            > response to what they felt was their very insightful media
                            efforts.
                             
                             
                            That indeed is also a typical response.
                             
                             
                            In this case, it was different.
                             

                            >
                            > Actually, if there was a Pallavi who reads
                            in here
                            > I'd want to tell you that you did a great job in putting
                            that
                            > thought provolking public service announcement together. It
                            >
                            is artistically pleasing as well as remaining clear and to the
                            > point
                            while holding the interest of the viewer. The use of
                            > the question was
                            smart because it makes the viewer think,
                            > whereas so often the authority
                            method of script turns people
                            > off. Nice presentation,
                            Pallavi.
                             
                             
                            No Pallavi is not subbed to this List or any List for that matter.
                             
                            I will convey your thoughts to her.
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             

                             
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