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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Comfort Thingy

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  • Harvey Schneider
    ... From: jodyrrr To: Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 11:38 AM Subject: [Meditation Society
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 2, 2004
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "jodyrrr" <jodyrrr@...>
      To: <meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 11:38 AM
      Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Comfort Thingy


      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Harvey Schneider"
      > <haarvi1@n...> wrote:
      > > In my former skeptical questioning of the Comfort
      > > Doctrine, I asked if this doctrine was true by virtue
      > > of observation or definition. Along the same lines,
      > > it may be useful to consider another related question:
      > >
      > > What would count as evidence that the Comfort Doctrine
      > > is not true?
      >
      > I don't know yet Harvey. It just doesn't seem possible
      > that there is any, but I guess that's indicating that I may
      > be incapable of hearing about it. I hope not.
      >
      > I truly want to be proven wrong here. But I've been thinking
      > along these lines for a year now, and I haven't been able to
      > come up with anything.
      >
      > I'm afraid there isn't anything. Life strives for its own
      > security. That's all it does, that's why it exists.
      >
      > Please show me that I'm wrong.
      >
      > > If nothing could be held against the doctrine, then it would
      > > indicate - at least to my thinking - that the doctrine is empty
      > > of any content.
      >
      > We can't hold anything against the 'we must breathe oxygen'
      > doctrine, so why should we have to hold anything against this
      > in order for it to be true?
      >
      > > Having a comfortable post New Years day morning,
      > > Harvey
      >
      > --jody.

      Hi Jodyji,

      Thanks for getting back to me so quickly on this. And
      thanks for bringing up the comparaitve example of our
      need for continuous supplies of oxygen.

      With regard to our need for oxygen, it is clear that cases of
      asphyxiation occur when our supply of oxygen is interrupted.
      If asphyxiation did not occur when we don't have oxygen to
      breath, that would be evidence that the idea that we need
      oxygen is mistaken. If no kind or amount of possible evidence
      can be found to disprove the Comfort doctrine, that shows -
      to my mind - that the doctrine is vacuous.

      My argument seems to me basic philosophical analysis. I'm
      surprised Greg hasn't weighed in on this, since he was a
      philosophy professor. Do you know if he is on this list?

      Greg likes to say that if the only color out there were brown,
      there would be no way to speak of brown since there would
      be no other color to contrast the brown color with. I think my
      point about comfort as the universal motivator is very similar.
      Perhaps we could figure out a way to get Greg's input on this.

      With all brotherly love, as always....Harvey
    • jodyrrr
      ... wrote: [snip] ... I see what you are getting at Harvey. It s like calling the sky blue, or explaining why it s blue. So what? Knowing
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 2, 2004
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Harvey Schneider"
        <haarvi1@n...> wrote:

        [snip]

        > Hi Jodyji,
        >
        > Thanks for getting back to me so quickly on this. And
        > thanks for bringing up the comparaitve example of our
        > need for continuous supplies of oxygen.
        >
        > With regard to our need for oxygen, it is clear that cases of
        > asphyxiation occur when our supply of oxygen is interrupted.
        > If asphyxiation did not occur when we don't have oxygen to
        > breath, that would be evidence that the idea that we need
        > oxygen is mistaken. If no kind or amount of possible evidence
        > can be found to disprove the Comfort doctrine, that shows -
        > to my mind - that the doctrine is vacuous.
        >
        > My argument seems to me basic philosophical analysis. I'm
        > surprised Greg hasn't weighed in on this, since he was a
        > philosophy professor. Do you know if he is on this list?
        >
        > Greg likes to say that if the only color out there were brown,
        > there would be no way to speak of brown since there would
        > be no other color to contrast the brown color with. I think my
        > point about comfort as the universal motivator is very similar.
        > Perhaps we could figure out a way to get Greg's input on this.
        >
        > With all brotherly love, as always....Harvey

        I see what you are getting at Harvey. It's like calling the
        sky blue, or explaining why it's blue. So what? Knowing
        that doesn't, nor will it ever, change anything about the sky
        or its color.

        However, many seekers find themselves in situations where
        they are analyzing why this do this or do that. They want to
        know what is it that causes them to seemingly get in their
        own way sometimes.

        I think the 'comfort doctrine' may be able to help in these
        instances. I'm not 100% sure yet, but with Bruceji's and
        Sandeepji's encouragement, it certainly seems to be worth
        a really good look.

        --jody.
      • Gregory Goode
        Hi Jody and Harvey, Actually, you guys are among my favorite conversants! Is what you re talking about is the truth of the claim that the search for comfort is
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 2, 2004
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          Hi Jody and Harvey,

          Actually, you guys are among my favorite conversants!

          Is what you're talking about is the truth of the claim that the search for comfort is the *only* or the *basic underlying* motive for all actions?

          Is this meant to be an empirical sort of observation that would be made in psychology?  What does it have to do with the other insight, made on this list and many others, that "No statement is true," (even that one!)?

          --Greg

          At 08:58 PM 1/2/2004 +0000, jodyrrr wrote:
          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Harvey  Schneider"
          <haarvi1@n...> wrote:

          [snip]

          > Hi Jodyji,
          >
          > Thanks for getting back to me so quickly on this.  And
          > thanks for bringing up the comparaitve example of our
          > need for continuous supplies of oxygen. 
          >
          > With regard to our need for oxygen, it is clear that cases of
          > asphyxiation occur when our supply of oxygen is interrupted. 
          > If asphyxiation did not occur when we don't have oxygen to
          > breath, that would be evidence that the idea that we need
          > oxygen is mistaken.  If no kind or amount of possible evidence
          > can be found to disprove the Comfort doctrine, that shows -
          > to my mind - that the doctrine is vacuous.
          >
          > My argument seems to me basic philosophical analysis.  I'm
          > surprised Greg hasn't weighed in on this, since he was a
          > philosophy professor.  Do you know if he is on this list?
          >
          > Greg likes to say that if the only color out there were brown,
          > there would be no way to speak of brown since there would
          > be no other color to contrast the brown color with.  I think my
          > point about comfort as the universal motivator is very similar. 
          > Perhaps we could figure out a way to get Greg's input on this.
          >
          > With all brotherly love, as always....Harvey

          I see what you are getting at Harvey.  It's like calling the
          sky blue, or explaining why it's blue.  So what?  Knowing
          that doesn't, nor will it ever, change anything about the sky
          or its color.

          However, many seekers find themselves in situations where
          they are analyzing why this do this or do that.  They want to
          know what is it that causes them to seemingly get in their
          own way sometimes.

          I think the 'comfort doctrine' may be able to help in these
          instances.  I'm not 100% sure yet, but with Bruceji's and
          Sandeepji's encouragement, it certainly seems to be worth
          a really good look.

          --jody.



          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • Jason Fishman
          Good evening gents, Tagging along... Without the context of a contradictive proposition, such as black and white, all conceptual understandings contain
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 2, 2004
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            Good evening gents,
             
            Tagging along...
             
            Without the context of a contradictive proposition, such as black and white, all conceptual understandings contain perception and twinge for or against any other perception. Comfort factoring is automatically assumed to have a non-comfot (or perhaps suffering is a better word) tied to it. The dirt is brown, automatically assumes there is any color to dirt whatsoever, which also assumes that color is a common perception among the human species. The interesting thing about all this is the assumption basis and it's automatic inheritence.
             
            Perhaps it's all much akin to compairing apples and oranges, although both being fruits, what does one fruit really taste like to another perception or look like for that matter. The automatic assumption in play would state the it tastes much the same to a clean pallet. Fortunately, there tends to be some sort of basis to all this discussion, even if that basis is simple language. Without basis,  word dictionaries would vary much more wildly from perception to perception,  most likely to the point where all writings would be incoherent regardless of single character string recognition.
             
            Jody's interesting ploy, just as many (or most) other coherent statements, contains it's automatic assumption as well. Those not seeking comfort are quite comfortable, those that are, are seeking comfort from suffering. I have a headache, I seek asprin or some other comforting method :-)
             
            The assumption that all basis are reliant apon each other is a much more difficult process to explain. There may very well be quite a few more basic structures along side simple contradictions. Explaining those structures without some sort of comparison creates a tough undertaking.
             
            Peace and Love

            Harvey Schneider <haarvi1@...> wrote:

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "jodyrrr" <jodyrrr@...>
            To: <meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 11:38 AM
            Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Comfort Thingy


            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Harvey  Schneider"
            > <haarvi1@n...> wrote:
            > > In my former skeptical questioning of the Comfort
            > > Doctrine,  I asked if this doctrine was true by virtue
            > > of observation or definition.  Along the same lines,
            > > it may be useful to consider another related question:
            > >
            > > What would count as evidence that the Comfort Doctrine
            > > is not true? 
            >
            > I don't know yet Harvey.  It just doesn't seem possible
            > that there is any, but I guess that's indicating that I may
            > be incapable of hearing about it.  I hope not.
            >
            > I truly want to be proven wrong here.  But I've been thinking
            > along these lines for a year now, and I haven't been able to
            > come up with anything.
            >
            > I'm afraid there isn't anything.  Life strives for its own
            > security.  That's all it does, that's why it exists.
            >
            > Please show me that I'm wrong.
            >
            > > If nothing could be held against the doctrine, then it would
            > > indicate - at least to my thinking - that the doctrine is empty
            > > of any content.
            >
            > We can't hold anything against the 'we must breathe oxygen'
            > doctrine, so why should we have to hold anything against this
            > in order for it to be true?
            >
            > > Having a comfortable post New Years day morning,
            > > Harvey
            >
            > --jody.

            Hi Jodyji,

            Thanks for getting back to me so quickly on this.  And
            thanks for bringing up the comparaitve example of our
            need for continuous supplies of oxygen. 

            With regard to our need for oxygen, it is clear that cases of
            asphyxiation occur when our supply of oxygen is interrupted. 
            If asphyxiation did not occur when we don't have oxygen to
            breath, that would be evidence that the idea that we need
            oxygen is mistaken.  If no kind or amount of possible evidence
            can be found to disprove the Comfort doctrine, that shows -
            to my mind - that the doctrine is vacuous.

            My argument seems to me basic philosophical analysis.  I'm
            surprised Greg hasn't weighed in on this, since he was a
            philosophy professor.  Do you know if he is on this list?

            Greg likes to say that if the only color out there were brown,
            there would be no way to speak of brown since there would
            be no other color to contrast the brown color with.  I think my
            point about comfort as the universal motivator is very similar. 
            Perhaps we could figure out a way to get Greg's input on this.

            With all brotherly love, as always....Harvey




            Yahoo! Groups Links


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