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Frankl

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  • texasbg2000
    I ran across this today. According to logotherapy, this striving to find a meaning in one s life is the primary motivational force in man. That is why I
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 23, 2003
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      I ran across this today.

      "According to logotherapy, this striving to find a meaning in one's
      life is the primary motivational force in man. That is why I speak
      of a will to meaning in contrast to the pleasure principle (or, as we
      could also term it, the will to pleasure) on which Freudian
      psychoanalysis is centered, as well as in contrast to the will to
      power on which Adlerian psychology, using the term "striving for
      superiority," is focused."

      P. 104 from "Man's Search For Meaning" by Viktor E. Frankl
      Frankl was Psychotherapist and a longtime prisoner at Auschwitz.

      Good Book.

      Love
      Bobby G.
    • medit8ionsociety
      ... Hi Bobby G, Thanks for introducing us to this fascinating therapy and to Frankl. The more I read, the more functional and usable logotherapy seems to be. I
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 23, 2003
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "texasbg2000"
        <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
        > I ran across this today.
        >
        > "According to logotherapy, this striving to find a meaning in one's
        > life is the primary motivational force in man. That is why I speak
        > of a will to meaning in contrast to the pleasure principle (or, as we
        > could also term it, the will to pleasure) on which Freudian
        > psychoanalysis is centered, as well as in contrast to the will to
        > power on which Adlerian psychology, using the term "striving for
        > superiority," is focused."
        >
        > P. 104 from "Man's Search For Meaning" by Viktor E. Frankl
        > Frankl was Psychotherapist and a longtime prisoner at Auschwitz.
        >
        > Good Book.
        >
        > Love
        > Bobby G.
        Hi Bobby G,
        Thanks for introducing us to this fascinating therapy and to Frankl.
        The more I read, the more functional and usable logotherapy seems to
        be. I searched and found this site:
        http://members.aol.com/timlebon/FranklLogotherapy.htm

        Here's some of the content:
        1.What is Logotherapy?

        a) Definition

        Literally, logotherapy means 'therapy through meaning'. It's an
        active-directive therapy aimed at helping people specifically with
        meaning crises, which manifest themselves either ina feeling of
        aimlessness or indirectly through addiction, alcoholism or depression.
        Logotherapy also employs techniques useful for phobias, anxiety,
        obsessive-compulsive disorders and medical ministry. Other
        applications include working with juvenile delinquents, career
        counselling and helping all of us find more meaning in life.

        b) Foundations

        i) Existentialism

        It's existentialist becauseit emphasises the freedom of the will and
        the consequent responsibility.It also, of course, asserts the
        importance of the meaning of life. Whilst Freud said human's have a
        will to pleasure and Adler the will to power, Frankl says we have a
        will to meaning. If it is frustrated, spiritual (noogenic) neuroses
        result. Frankl argued that the the spiritual (noetic) dimension of man
        should be added to the physical and psychological dimensions. For
        Frankl, ultimate meaning does exist andis unique to each person and
        each situation. Each moment offers 'a sequence of unrepeatable
        situations each of which offers a specific meaning to be recognised
        and fulfilled'. Meaning cannot be invented but must be discovered.

        ii) Stoicism

        It's Stoic, because it holds that no matter what the state of the
        world, our attitude can always help us. The Stoic Epictetus held that
        'Men are not moved by events but by their interpretations'. Even in
        facing death and suffering, by showing courage we can turn a situation
        into a supremely meaningful one.

        iii) Frankl's own experiences, in concentration camps and as a
        psychiatrist

        "This was the lesson I had to learn in three years spent in Auschwitz
        and Dachau: other things being equal, those apt to survive the camps
        were those oriented toward the future - toward a task, or a person,
        waiting for them in the future, toward a meaning to be fulfilled by
        them in the future" . But Logotherapy was also the result of Frankl's
        own ideas and improvisations, not all of which are very obviously
        connected with his experiences in the camps or the meaning of life.



        2.Techniques of Logotherapy

        1.Paradoxical Intention

        The therapist encourages the patient to intend or wish for, even if
        only for a second, precisely what they fear.

        oUsed for obsessive, compulsive and phobic conditions (not for
        suicidal or schizophrenic patients).

        oUseful in cases of underlying anticipatory anxiety, often works very
        quickly.

        oMobilises the human capacity for self-detachment, often with a sense
        of humour

        oHans Gerz claims that paradoxical intention is successful in 80-90%
        of cases

        The case of the sweating doctor (from Pyschotherapy and
        Existentialism, p 139)

        A young doctor had severe hydrophobia. One day, meeting his chief on
        the street, as he extended his hand in greeting, he noticed that he
        was perspiring more than usual. The next time he was in a similar
        situation he expected to perspire again, and this anticipatory anxiety
        precipitated excessive sweating. It was a vicious circle … We advised
        our patient, in the event that his anticipatory anxiety should recur,
        to resolve deliberately to show the people whom he confronted at the
        time just how much he could really sweat.A week later he returned to
        report that whenever he met anyone who triggered his anxiety, he said
        to himself, "I only sweated out a litre before, but now I'm going to
        pour out at least ten litres !" What was the result of this
        paradoxical resolution ? After suffering from his phobia for four
        years, he was quickly able, after only one session, to free himself of
        it for good.

        You are the logotherapist

        In the following cases, what paradoxical intention, if any, would you
        recommend ?

        i)A man is fearful that he will die from a heart attack. Physical
        check-ups reveal him to be in good health.

        ii) An obsessive-compulsive comes to you because she is concerned
        about the number

        of times she washes her hands each day.

        iii) A young man comes to you for help with stuttering. What do you
        advice ?

        iv) A schizophrenic is anxious that the people he sees on the tube are
        out to get him.



        2.Dereflection

        The therapist diverts the patients away from their problems towards
        something else meaningful in the world.

        oUsed specifically for sexual dysfunction. Deflection indicated
        because (e.g.) the more you think about potency during sex, the less
        likely you are to achieve it,

        oNo use just telling them to stop thinking about something – need to
        substitute something positive ( e.g. insomniac -don't just tell them
        to stop trying to sleep, tell them to count sheep).

        oMore generally, logotherapy can be seen as dereflecting the patient
        away from their presenting problem towards searching for meaning.
        Patient is dereflected from their disturbance to something other than
        themselves.

        Frankl's advice to Anna, 19-year old art student who displays severe
        symptoms of incipient schizophrenia. She considers herself as being
        confused and asks for help.

        Patient … What is going on within me ?

        Frankl: Don't brood over yourself. Don't inquire into the source of
        your trouble. Leave this to us doctors. We will steer and pilot you
        through the crisis. Well, isn't there a goal beckoning you – say, an
        artistic assignment ?

        Patient: But this inner turmoil ….

        Frankl: Don't watch your inner turmoil, but turn your gaze to what is
        waiting for you. What counts is not what lurks in the depths, but what
        waits in the future, waits to be actualised by you….

        Patient: But what is the origin of my trouble ?

        Frankl: Don't focus on questions like this. Whatever the pathological
        process underlying your psychological affliction may be, we will cure
        you. Therefore, don't be concerned with the strange feelings haunting
        you. Ignore them until we make you get rid of them. Don't watch them.
        Don't fight them.

        Imagine, there are about a dozen great things, works which wait to be
        created by Anna, and there is no one who could achieve and accomplish
        it but Anna. No one could replace her in this assignment. They will be
        your creations, and if you don't create them, they will remain
        uncreated forever…

        Patient : Doctor, I believe in what you say. It is a message which
        makes me happy.



        3.Orientation towards Meaning

        The therapist tries to enlarge the patient's discernment of meaning –
        in the past, present and future, and creatively, experientially and
        attitudinally.

        1. Meaning through creative values

        Frankl says that "The logotherapist's role consists in widening and
        broadening the visual field of the patient so that the whole spectrum
        of meaning and values becomes conscious and visible to him". A major
        source of meaning is through the value of all that we create, achieve
        and accomplish. "

        2. Meaning through experiential values

        Frankl (The Doctor and the Soul) writes "Let us ask a mountain-climber
        who has beheld the alpine sunset and is so moved by the splendour of
        nature that he feels cold shudders running down his spine - let us ask
        him whether after such an experience his life can ever again seem
        wholly meaningless".

        3. Meaning throughattitudinal values

        Frankl argued that we always have the freedom to find meaning through
        meaningful attitudes even in apparently meaningless situations. For
        example, an elderly, depressed patientwho could not overcome the loss
        of his wife was helped by the following conversation with Frankl.

        Frankl asked "What would have happened if you had died first, and your
        wife would have had to survive you".

        "Oh," replied the patient, "for her this would have been terrible; how
        she would have suffered !

        Frankl continued "You see such a suffering has been spared her; and it
        is you who have spared her this suffering; but now, you have to pay
        for it by surviving her and mourning her."The mansaid no word, but
        shook Frankl's hand and calmly left his office." (Man's Search for
        Meaning)

        Case study of Harold (Chris Wurm)

        Harold was a middle-aged Australian whose life was rapidly spiralling
        out of control As well as a drinking problem he had financial
        problems- not helped by the amount he spent on drink - and was under
        considerable stress at work. His wife's sympathy was running out - no
        wonder he was also having trouble sleeping at night. He went to
        seeChris Wurm,a GP as well as a logotherapist. Wurm combined a medical
        approach - for example giving information about the damage drink was
        doing - with logotherapy. Invery fewsessions Harold's life was turned
        round, partly by the clarification the role of alcohol in his life and
        the alternatives. Wurm says"It was possible to discuss the notion that
        he could make choices and live his life in a variety of ways " ( there
        we see logotherapy's emphasis on responsibility) " some of which would
        be more meaningful than others. He was then able to reflect on the
        choices he had been making (this is the orientation towards meaning
        and values) , and the possibilities available in the future". "It was
        dramatic to see how determinedand effective he became, once he saw how
        his old strategies were backfiring".
        ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        There's more, including several links.
        Thanks again,
        Bob
      • Nina
        Thanks, Bobby and Bob, that was good reading. Synchronistically, I have been exploring ways of teaching yoga that facilitate my student s ability to access and
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 24, 2003
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          Thanks, Bobby and Bob, that was good reading.

          Synchronistically, I have been exploring ways of
          teaching yoga that facilitate my student's ability
          to access and balance both intellect and intuition.
          Yesterday during a class with one student, there was
          an interesting 'breakthrough' for me, that I have
          yet to fully 'integrate', but perhaps writing it down,
          as it relates to Frankl's assertion that we have a
          will to meaning.

          Essentially, there seems to have been a 'meeting of
          meaning', which was "exactly what was needed", a sort
          of synchronicity that I am studying, so as to bring
          into intellect the 'intuitions' that are producing
          these sorts of synchronicities. Ha, so as you can see,
          my practice informs my teaching. Anyhoo...

          Class began with a reclining supported pranayama,
          practiced so that one's body becomes soft around
          and accepting of the breath. I talked her through
          moving her concentration to the rhythm and sensation
          of the breath, and then gradually moved it out into
          a meditation that encompassed but did not cling to
          awareness of her breath, sensation of her body as
          a whole, the passage of her thoughts, and the space
          surrounding her body.

          I noticed during this time:

          1. That her eyes gradually softened and relaxed and
          that she became content to lie still without rubbing
          her eyes (mind chatter reduction), coinciding with
          the switch from concentration to meditation.
          2. That her 'breath of the moment', even when accessing
          deeper stages of relaxation, remained mainly in her
          abdomen and lower ribcage, with some movement at the
          frontal and side ribs, and no movement at the upper
          lungs. The upper lung area, despite the support of
          the bolsters to open the heart and chest, remained
          'unenlivened' and thick.

          Towards the end, I invited her
          to carry a memory of the ease and spaciousness she had
          cultivated with her beyond the pranayama practice,
          into her asanas, but also with her into what she had
          called a hectic holiday time, knowing that just
          as she recognized but allowed each thought and
          sensation to pass, that she could practice the same
          awareness with events and personal interchanges.

          She mentioned that this exercise made such a difference
          in her state of mind, clearing the slate... but I also
          suspect that it 'primed the pump', by bringing her
          contextualizing her practice within her 'day-to-day'
          life... she was thinking about how the practice we
          did together could spread out into the way she
          engages her daily life.

          Upon rising, we worked on arm extensions, moving the
          tailbone down, ascending the spine, allowing its
          upward lift to split and enliven the arms outward
          to the sides. Lifting the side ribs on an inhale,
          releasing the shoulders down. Making that meditative
          connection among tailbone, spine, arms, and beyond.
          Feeling into a broadness at the collarbones, and
          learning how to keep that broadness even as the arms
          reach up to the sky.

          I was working with her on developing an awareness
          of the role her shoulderblades play in this support
          of the arms, demonstrating on myself and her how
          the shoulderblade moves into the back of the body
          pressed flat to the ribs when the arms are hanging
          down, and then how the shoulderblades swing down
          and under the arms as the arms lift, and finally
          come to act as foundations for the arms in their
          upward extension when a shine came into her eyes
          and she declared that 'this is all about how I
          carry things and people!'

          She proceeded to describe her realisation of how
          her story (she used the word "burden" in relation
          to "carrying other people") was playing out in her
          body - mentioning that she had thought it had taken
          a lot of her strength (like lifting boxes with your
          back instead of with bending knees), but now there
          seemed to be 'another way' possible.

          We talked about the relationships between her
          carriage at her shoulder girdle and her carriage of
          people and events. It is interesting to note, that
          there is 'no direct correlation', that all the
          correlations, meaningful relationships, are based on
          'what feels right', not on 'what is logical, this is
          to that as that is to this'. Meaning is an art,
          not a science... and the interpretation of it is
          much about 'sympathetic resonance', as one might
          interpret a dream, or a painting.

          So, given that it was a yoga class, the 'painting'
          or the 'dream' would be the 'body'... and it would
          be the body that would be the vehicle to greater
          understanding...

          For the rest of the session, we worked on opening the
          heart and strengthening the muscles of the back between
          the shoulderblades, learning how to bring the shoulderblades
          to the back to support the heart and the limbs of support
          (arms). We also worked on spinal alignment from pelvis
          through shoulders to allow the 'dead' area beneath her
          collarbones to soften and enliven: releasing the grip
          at the frontal rim of the pelvis to allow the spine to
          move back into neutral and the 'present moment', extending
          the tailbone down to release the back body, bringing
          the breath into the mid-back body, engaging the spiral
          of 'broadening collarbones, rounding upper armbone back,
          drawing the shoulderblades forward to the heart, opening
          the heart, etc.' to make space for the breath in the upper
          lungs.

          It is interesting to note, something that she
          didn't quite get into when recognizing meaning in her
          realisation, that the closed space around her upper lungs,
          where the weight of the world hangs, is directly related
          to a gripping at her pelvis that puts her in "forward mode",
          "pressing forward", "thinking about the future".

          (It is interesting to note, that with enough observation,
          one can begin to see correlations among mindsets and
          bodysets, in the same way one might make correlations
          between the location of a car's gear stick and the
          gear in which the car is operating.)

          But meaning, is variable, and fleeting. I am sure, that
          within moments of speaking the meaning that came forth
          during her realisation, that this same meaning could have
          been 'outdated'... and a vacuum created for 'more meaning'.

          It is as if meaning is a tool. As a
          tool, one may use it for some time,
          but then set it down when a better tool becomes
          available. The goal is not the tool, but what the
          tool creates.

          That's where Frankl's work is really interesting,
          and it reminds me of Jung and Joseph Campbell in
          how they speak of the importance of the 'imagination'
          (read: intuitive faculty) in well-being.

          As such, meaning is not 'the eternal', except in the way
          it continues to arise, meaning after meaning, bringing
          a deep satisfaction and 'feeling of understanding'
          This is, btw, the best we can have, given that
          'total understanding' is also a 'feeling of understanding',
          as no one can say for sure that we 'totally understand'...
          how do you know, except that you feel you know?

          Meaning is not the eternal, but it is a communication
          we can have with the eternal... it is like the glue
          for the yin-yang union. It is the web that spans two
          separate walls.

          Ah, thanks again, it has been a good exercise...

          Nina





          > > "According to logotherapy, this striving to find a meaning in
          > > one's life is the primary motivational force in man. That is why
          > > I speak of a will to meaning in contrast to the pleasure
          > > principle (or, as we could also term it, the will to pleasure) on
          > > which Freudian psychoanalysis is centered, as well as in contrast
          > > to the will to power on which Adlerian psychology, using the
          > > term "striving for superiority," is focused."
          > >
          > > P. 104 from "Man's Search For Meaning" by Viktor E. Frankl
          > > Frankl was Psychotherapist and a longtime prisoner at Auschwitz.
          > >
          > > Good Book.
          > >
          > > Love
          > > Bobby G.

          > Hi Bobby G,
          > Thanks for introducing us to this fascinating therapy and to Frankl.
          > The more I read, the more functional and usable logotherapy seems to
          > be. I searched and found this site:
          > http://members.aol.com/timlebon/FranklLogotherapy.htm
          >
          > Here's some of the content:
          > 1.What is Logotherapy?
          >
          > a) Definition
          >
          > Literally, logotherapy means 'therapy through meaning'. It's an
          > active-directive therapy aimed at helping people specifically with
          > meaning crises, which manifest themselves either ina feeling of
          > aimlessness or indirectly through addiction, alcoholism or
          > depression. Logotherapy also employs techniques useful for phobias,
          > anxiety, obsessive-compulsive disorders and medical ministry. Other
          > applications include working with juvenile delinquents, career
          > counselling and helping all of us find more meaning in life.
        • Nina
          ... wrote: Whoo, I apologize for all the bizarre sentences for that last post. I guess you can see I was working through it as I wrote! LOL!
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 24, 2003
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Nina"
            <murrkis@y...> wrote:

            Whoo, I apologize for all the bizarre sentences for that
            last post. I guess you can see I was working through it
            as I wrote! LOL!

            Nina
          • jodyrrr
            ... Meaning = comfort. Pleasure = comfort. Power = comfort.
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 24, 2003
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              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "texasbg2000"
              <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
              > I ran across this today.
              >
              > "According to logotherapy, this striving to find a meaning in one's
              > life is the primary motivational force in man. That is why I speak
              > of a will to meaning in contrast to the pleasure principle (or, as we
              > could also term it, the will to pleasure) on which Freudian
              > psychoanalysis is centered, as well as in contrast to the will to
              > power on which Adlerian psychology, using the term "striving for
              > superiority," is focused."
              >
              > P. 104 from "Man's Search For Meaning" by Viktor E. Frankl
              > Frankl was Psychotherapist and a longtime prisoner at Auschwitz.
              >
              > Good Book.
              >
              > Love
              > Bobby G.

              Meaning = comfort.
              Pleasure = comfort.
              Power = comfort.
            • texasbg2000
              ... No need for an apology Nina. Your post was great. Very interactive. Love Bobby G.
              Message 6 of 19 , Dec 24, 2003
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                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Nina"
                <murrkis@y...> wrote:
                > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Nina"
                > <murrkis@y...> wrote:
                >
                > Whoo, I apologize for all the bizarre sentences for that
                > last post. I guess you can see I was working through it
                > as I wrote! LOL!
                >
                > Nina

                No need for an apology Nina. Your post was great. Very interactive.

                Love
                Bobby G.
              • texasbg2000
                ... one s ... speak ... as we ... depression. ... man ... that ... situation ... Auschwitz ... Frankl s ... very ... sense ... anxiety ... advised ... recur,
                Message 7 of 19 , Dec 24, 2003
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                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
                  <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                  > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "texasbg2000"
                  > <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                  > > I ran across this today.
                  > >
                  > > "According to logotherapy, this striving to find a meaning in
                  one's
                  > > life is the primary motivational force in man. That is why I
                  speak
                  > > of a will to meaning in contrast to the pleasure principle (or,
                  as we
                  > > could also term it, the will to pleasure) on which Freudian
                  > > psychoanalysis is centered, as well as in contrast to the will to
                  > > power on which Adlerian psychology, using the term "striving for
                  > > superiority," is focused."
                  > >
                  > > P. 104 from "Man's Search For Meaning" by Viktor E. Frankl
                  > > Frankl was Psychotherapist and a longtime prisoner at Auschwitz.
                  > >
                  > > Good Book.
                  > >
                  > > Love
                  > > Bobby G.
                  > Hi Bobby G,
                  > Thanks for introducing us to this fascinating therapy and to Frankl.
                  > The more I read, the more functional and usable logotherapy seems to
                  > be. I searched and found this site:
                  > http://members.aol.com/timlebon/FranklLogotherapy.htm
                  >
                  > Here's some of the content:
                  > 1.What is Logotherapy?
                  >
                  > a) Definition
                  >
                  > Literally, logotherapy means 'therapy through meaning'. It's an
                  > active-directive therapy aimed at helping people specifically with
                  > meaning crises, which manifest themselves either ina feeling of
                  > aimlessness or indirectly through addiction, alcoholism or
                  depression.
                  > Logotherapy also employs techniques useful for phobias, anxiety,
                  > obsessive-compulsive disorders and medical ministry. Other
                  > applications include working with juvenile delinquents, career
                  > counselling and helping all of us find more meaning in life.
                  >
                  > b) Foundations
                  >
                  > i) Existentialism
                  >
                  > It's existentialist becauseit emphasises the freedom of the will and
                  > the consequent responsibility.It also, of course, asserts the
                  > importance of the meaning of life. Whilst Freud said human's have a
                  > will to pleasure and Adler the will to power, Frankl says we have a
                  > will to meaning. If it is frustrated, spiritual (noogenic) neuroses
                  > result. Frankl argued that the the spiritual (noetic) dimension of
                  man
                  > should be added to the physical and psychological dimensions. For
                  > Frankl, ultimate meaning does exist andis unique to each person and
                  > each situation. Each moment offers 'a sequence of unrepeatable
                  > situations each of which offers a specific meaning to be recognised
                  > and fulfilled'. Meaning cannot be invented but must be discovered.
                  >
                  > ii) Stoicism
                  >
                  > It's Stoic, because it holds that no matter what the state of the
                  > world, our attitude can always help us. The Stoic Epictetus held
                  that
                  > 'Men are not moved by events but by their interpretations'. Even in
                  > facing death and suffering, by showing courage we can turn a
                  situation
                  > into a supremely meaningful one.
                  >
                  > iii) Frankl's own experiences, in concentration camps and as a
                  > psychiatrist
                  >
                  > "This was the lesson I had to learn in three years spent in
                  Auschwitz
                  > and Dachau: other things being equal, those apt to survive the camps
                  > were those oriented toward the future - toward a task, or a person,
                  > waiting for them in the future, toward a meaning to be fulfilled by
                  > them in the future" . But Logotherapy was also the result of
                  Frankl's
                  > own ideas and improvisations, not all of which are very obviously
                  > connected with his experiences in the camps or the meaning of life.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 2.Techniques of Logotherapy
                  >
                  > 1.Paradoxical Intention
                  >
                  > The therapist encourages the patient to intend or wish for, even if
                  > only for a second, precisely what they fear.
                  >
                  > oUsed for obsessive, compulsive and phobic conditions (not for
                  > suicidal or schizophrenic patients).
                  >
                  > oUseful in cases of underlying anticipatory anxiety, often works
                  very
                  > quickly.
                  >
                  > oMobilises the human capacity for self-detachment, often with a
                  sense
                  > of humour
                  >
                  > oHans Gerz claims that paradoxical intention is successful in 80-90%
                  > of cases
                  >
                  > The case of the sweating doctor (from Pyschotherapy and
                  > Existentialism, p 139)
                  >
                  > A young doctor had severe hydrophobia. One day, meeting his chief on
                  > the street, as he extended his hand in greeting, he noticed that he
                  > was perspiring more than usual. The next time he was in a similar
                  > situation he expected to perspire again, and this anticipatory
                  anxiety
                  > precipitated excessive sweating. It was a vicious circle … We
                  advised
                  > our patient, in the event that his anticipatory anxiety should
                  recur,
                  > to resolve deliberately to show the people whom he confronted at the
                  > time just how much he could really sweat.A week later he returned to
                  > report that whenever he met anyone who triggered his anxiety, he
                  said
                  > to himself, "I only sweated out a litre before, but now I'm going to
                  > pour out at least ten litres !" What was the result of this
                  > paradoxical resolution ? After suffering from his phobia for four
                  > years, he was quickly able, after only one session, to free himself
                  of
                  > it for good.
                  >
                  > You are the logotherapist
                  >
                  > In the following cases, what paradoxical intention, if any, would
                  you
                  > recommend ?
                  >
                  > i)A man is fearful that he will die from a heart attack. Physical
                  > check-ups reveal him to be in good health.
                  >
                  > ii) An obsessive-compulsive comes to you because she is concerned
                  > about the number
                  >
                  > of times she washes her hands each day.
                  >
                  > iii) A young man comes to you for help with stuttering. What do you
                  > advice ?
                  >
                  > iv) A schizophrenic is anxious that the people he sees on the tube
                  are
                  > out to get him.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 2.Dereflection
                  >
                  > The therapist diverts the patients away from their problems towards
                  > something else meaningful in the world.
                  >
                  > oUsed specifically for sexual dysfunction. Deflection indicated
                  > because (e.g.) the more you think about potency during sex, the less
                  > likely you are to achieve it,
                  >
                  > oNo use just telling them to stop thinking about something – need to
                  > substitute something positive ( e.g. insomniac -don't just tell them
                  > to stop trying to sleep, tell them to count sheep).
                  >
                  > oMore generally, logotherapy can be seen as dereflecting the patient
                  > away from their presenting problem towards searching for meaning.
                  > Patient is dereflected from their disturbance to something other
                  than
                  > themselves.
                  >
                  > Frankl's advice to Anna, 19-year old art student who displays severe
                  > symptoms of incipient schizophrenia. She considers herself as being
                  > confused and asks for help.
                  >
                  > Patient … What is going on within me ?
                  >
                  > Frankl: Don't brood over yourself. Don't inquire into the source of
                  > your trouble. Leave this to us doctors. We will steer and pilot you
                  > through the crisis. Well, isn't there a goal beckoning you – say, an
                  > artistic assignment ?
                  >
                  > Patient: But this inner turmoil ….
                  >
                  > Frankl: Don't watch your inner turmoil, but turn your gaze to what
                  is
                  > waiting for you. What counts is not what lurks in the depths, but
                  what
                  > waits in the future, waits to be actualised by you….
                  >
                  > Patient: But what is the origin of my trouble ?
                  >
                  > Frankl: Don't focus on questions like this. Whatever the
                  pathological
                  > process underlying your psychological affliction may be, we will
                  cure
                  > you. Therefore, don't be concerned with the strange feelings
                  haunting
                  > you. Ignore them until we make you get rid of them. Don't watch
                  them.
                  > Don't fight them.
                  >
                  > Imagine, there are about a dozen great things, works which wait to
                  be
                  > created by Anna, and there is no one who could achieve and
                  accomplish
                  > it but Anna. No one could replace her in this assignment. They will
                  be
                  > your creations, and if you don't create them, they will remain
                  > uncreated forever…
                  >
                  > Patient : Doctor, I believe in what you say. It is a message which
                  > makes me happy.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 3.Orientation towards Meaning
                  >
                  > The therapist tries to enlarge the patient's discernment of
                  meaning –
                  > in the past, present and future, and creatively, experientially and
                  > attitudinally.
                  >
                  > 1. Meaning through creative values
                  >
                  > Frankl says that "The logotherapist's role consists in widening and
                  > broadening the visual field of the patient so that the whole
                  spectrum
                  > of meaning and values becomes conscious and visible to him". A major
                  > source of meaning is through the value of all that we create,
                  achieve
                  > and accomplish. "
                  >
                  > 2. Meaning through experiential values
                  >
                  > Frankl (The Doctor and the Soul) writes "Let us ask a mountain-
                  climber
                  > who has beheld the alpine sunset and is so moved by the splendour of
                  > nature that he feels cold shudders running down his spine - let us
                  ask
                  > him whether after such an experience his life can ever again seem
                  > wholly meaningless".
                  >
                  > 3. Meaning throughattitudinal values
                  >
                  > Frankl argued that we always have the freedom to find meaning
                  through
                  > meaningful attitudes even in apparently meaningless situations. For
                  > example, an elderly, depressed patientwho could not overcome the
                  loss
                  > of his wife was helped by the following conversation with Frankl.
                  >
                  > Frankl asked "What would have happened if you had died first, and
                  your
                  > wife would have had to survive you".
                  >
                  > "Oh," replied the patient, "for her this would have been terrible;
                  how
                  > she would have suffered !
                  >
                  > Frankl continued "You see such a suffering has been spared her; and
                  it
                  > is you who have spared her this suffering; but now, you have to pay
                  > for it by surviving her and mourning her."The mansaid no word, but
                  > shook Frankl's hand and calmly left his office." (Man's Search for
                  > Meaning)
                  >
                  > Case study of Harold (Chris Wurm)
                  >
                  > Harold was a middle-aged Australian whose life was rapidly
                  spiralling
                  > out of control As well as a drinking problem he had financial
                  > problems- not helped by the amount he spent on drink - and was under
                  > considerable stress at work. His wife's sympathy was running out -
                  no
                  > wonder he was also having trouble sleeping at night. He went to
                  > seeChris Wurm,a GP as well as a logotherapist. Wurm combined a
                  medical
                  > approach - for example giving information about the damage drink was
                  > doing - with logotherapy. Invery fewsessions Harold's life was
                  turned
                  > round, partly by the clarification the role of alcohol in his life
                  and
                  > the alternatives. Wurm says"It was possible to discuss the notion
                  that
                  > he could make choices and live his life in a variety of ways " (
                  there
                  > we see logotherapy's emphasis on responsibility) " some of which
                  would
                  > be more meaningful than others. He was then able to reflect on the
                  > choices he had been making (this is the orientation towards meaning
                  > and values) , and the possibilities available in the future". "It
                  was
                  > dramatic to see how determinedand effective he became, once he saw
                  how
                  > his old strategies were backfiring".
                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                  ----
                  > There's more, including several links.

                  Ths is great stuff Bob. The story of his time in the concentration
                  camps is amazing. Insightful because he looked at what happened
                  from a psychological viewpoint. And he lived.

                  Love
                  bobby G.
                  > Thanks again,
                  > Bob
                • texasbg2000
                  ... one s ... speak ... as we ... Hi Jody: From my viewpoint the comfort thing is the pleasure one. But wanting to see everything as seeking comfort is the
                  Message 8 of 19 , Dec 24, 2003
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                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                    <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
                    > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "texasbg2000"
                    > <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                    > > I ran across this today.
                    > >
                    > > "According to logotherapy, this striving to find a meaning in
                    one's
                    > > life is the primary motivational force in man. That is why I
                    speak
                    > > of a will to meaning in contrast to the pleasure principle (or,
                    as we
                    > > could also term it, the will to pleasure) on which Freudian
                    > > psychoanalysis is centered, as well as in contrast to the will to
                    > > power on which Adlerian psychology, using the term "striving for
                    > > superiority," is focused."
                    > >
                    > > P. 104 from "Man's Search For Meaning" by Viktor E. Frankl
                    > > Frankl was Psychotherapist and a longtime prisoner at Auschwitz.
                    > >
                    > > Good Book.
                    > >
                    > > Love
                    > > Bobby G.
                    >
                    > Meaning = comfort.
                    > Pleasure = comfort.
                    > Power = comfort.

                    Hi Jody:

                    From my viewpoint the comfort thing is the pleasure one.

                    But wanting to see everything as seeking comfort is the search for
                    meaning.

                    Love
                    Boby G.
                  • jodyrrr
                    ... Power = comfort. If you have power, you can acquire whatever it is that you desire. That is comfort. Meaning = comfort. If you have meaning in your
                    Message 9 of 19 , Dec 24, 2003
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                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "texasbg2000"
                      <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                      > <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
                      > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "texasbg2000"
                      > > <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                      > > > I ran across this today.
                      > > >
                      > > > "According to logotherapy, this striving to find a meaning in
                      > one's
                      > > > life is the primary motivational force in man. That is why I
                      > speak
                      > > > of a will to meaning in contrast to the pleasure principle (or,
                      > as we
                      > > > could also term it, the will to pleasure) on which Freudian
                      > > > psychoanalysis is centered, as well as in contrast to the will to
                      > > > power on which Adlerian psychology, using the term "striving for
                      > > > superiority," is focused."
                      > > >
                      > > > P. 104 from "Man's Search For Meaning" by Viktor E. Frankl
                      > > > Frankl was Psychotherapist and a longtime prisoner at Auschwitz.
                      > > >
                      > > > Good Book.
                      > > >
                      > > > Love
                      > > > Bobby G.
                      > >
                      > > Meaning = comfort.
                      > > Pleasure = comfort.
                      > > Power = comfort.
                      >
                      > Hi Jody:
                      >
                      > From my viewpoint the comfort thing is the pleasure one.
                      >
                      > But wanting to see everything as seeking comfort is the search for
                      > meaning.
                      >
                      > Love
                      > Boby G.

                      Power = comfort. If you have power, you can acquire whatever it is
                      that you desire. That is comfort.

                      Meaning = comfort. If you have meaning in your life, if you know what
                      you are here for, or if you know what you want to do, or who or what
                      you want to help, that is comfort.

                      There's no escape Bobby. You can jump through hoops rendering it
                      otherwise, but everything life does is in the search of greater comfort.

                      --jody.
                    • texasbg2000
                      ... meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, texasbg2000 ... (or, ... will to ... for ... Auschwitz. ... for ... what ... comfort. ... I think the
                      Message 10 of 19 , Dec 24, 2003
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                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                        <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
                        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "texasbg2000"
                        > <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
                        > > <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
                        > > > --- In
                        meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "texasbg2000"
                        > > > <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                        > > > > I ran across this today.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > "According to logotherapy, this striving to find a meaning in
                        > > one's
                        > > > > life is the primary motivational force in man. That is why I
                        > > speak
                        > > > > of a will to meaning in contrast to the pleasure principle
                        (or,
                        > > as we
                        > > > > could also term it, the will to pleasure) on which Freudian
                        > > > > psychoanalysis is centered, as well as in contrast to the
                        will to
                        > > > > power on which Adlerian psychology, using the term "striving
                        for
                        > > > > superiority," is focused."
                        > > > >
                        > > > > P. 104 from "Man's Search For Meaning" by Viktor E. Frankl
                        > > > > Frankl was Psychotherapist and a longtime prisoner at
                        Auschwitz.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Good Book.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Love
                        > > > > Bobby G.
                        > > >
                        > > > Meaning = comfort.
                        > > > Pleasure = comfort.
                        > > > Power = comfort.
                        > >
                        > > Hi Jody:
                        > >
                        > > From my viewpoint the comfort thing is the pleasure one.
                        > >
                        > > But wanting to see everything as seeking comfort is the search
                        for
                        > > meaning.
                        > >
                        > > Love
                        > > Boby G.
                        >
                        > Power = comfort. If you have power, you can acquire whatever it is
                        > that you desire. That is comfort.
                        >
                        > Meaning = comfort. If you have meaning in your life, if you know
                        what
                        > you are here for, or if you know what you want to do, or who or what
                        > you want to help, that is comfort.
                        >
                        > There's no escape Bobby. You can jump through hoops rendering it
                        > otherwise, but everything life does is in the search of greater
                        comfort.
                        >
                        > --jody.

                        I think the Freudians would agree with you.
                        If you had said everythng was to achieve power the Adlerians would
                        agree.
                        And the Frankl people think you are looking for meaning in your view.

                        Love
                        bobby G.
                      • Bruce Morgen
                        ... meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com , texasbg2000 wrote: I ran across this today. According to logotherapy, this striving to
                        Message 11 of 19 , Dec 24, 2003
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                          texasbg2000 wrote:
                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr" 
                          <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
                            
                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "texasbg2000" 
                          <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                              
                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr" 
                          <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
                                
                          --- In 
                                  
                          meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "texasbg2000" 
                            
                          <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                                  
                          I ran across this today.
                          
                          "According to logotherapy, this striving to find a meaning in 
                                    
                          one's 
                                
                          life is the primary motivational force in man.  That is why I 
                                    
                          speak 
                                
                          of a will to meaning in contrast to the pleasure principle 
                                    
                          (or, 
                            
                          as we 
                                
                          could also term it, the will to pleasure) on which Freudian 
                          psychoanalysis is centered, as well as in contrast to the 
                                    
                          will to 
                            
                          power on which Adlerian psychology, using the term "striving 
                                    
                          for 
                            
                          superiority," is focused."
                          
                          P. 104 from "Man's Search For Meaning" by Viktor E. Frankl 
                          Frankl was Psychotherapist and a longtime prisoner at 
                                    
                          Auschwitz. 
                            
                          Good Book.
                          
                          Love
                          Bobby G.
                                    
                          Meaning = comfort.
                          Pleasure = comfort.
                          Power = comfort.
                                  
                          Hi Jody:
                          
                          From my viewpoint the comfort thing is the pleasure one.  
                          
                          But wanting to see everything as seeking comfort is the search 
                                
                          for 
                            
                          meaning.
                          
                          Love
                          Boby G.
                                
                          Power = comfort.  If you have power, you can acquire whatever it is
                          that you desire.  That is comfort.
                          
                          Meaning = comfort.  If you have meaning in your life, if you know 
                              
                          what
                            
                          you are here for, or if you know what you want to do, or who or what
                          you want to help, that is comfort.
                          
                          There's no escape Bobby.  You can jump through hoops rendering it
                          otherwise, but everything life does is in the search of greater 
                              
                          comfort.
                            
                          --jody.  
                              
                          I think the Freudians would agree with you.  
                          If you had said everythng was to achieve power the Adlerians would 
                          agree.
                          And the Frankl people think you are looking for meaning in your view.
                          
                            
                          Well, thanks for the rundown
                          on what various early schools
                          of psychiatry would agree on
                          and think.  I still see Jodyji
                          as closer to the nub of the
                          matter than the lot of them. 
                          Both power and the notion that
                          there is meaning in ones life
                          are quite clearly forms of
                          comfort, but the converse in
                          both cases is just as clearly
                          not true.
                        • texasbg2000
                          Power = comfort. If you have power, you can acquire whatever it is that you desire. That is comfort. Meaning = comfort. If you have meaning in your life, if
                          Message 12 of 19 , Dec 24, 2003
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                            Power = comfort. If you have power, you can acquire whatever it is
                            that you desire. That is comfort.
                            Meaning = comfort. If you have meaning in your life, if you know
                            what

                            you are here for, or if you know what you want to do, or who or what
                            you want to help, that is comfort.
                            There's no escape Bobby. You can jump through hoops rendering it
                            otherwise, but everything life does is in the search of greater
                            comfort.

                            --jody.

                            I think the Freudians would agree with you. If you had said everythng
                            was to achieve power the Adlerians would agree.
                            And the Frankl people think you are looking for meaning in your view.

                            Well, thanks for the rundown
                            on what various early schools
                            of psychiatry would agree on
                            and think. I still see Jodyji
                            as closer to the nub of the
                            matter than the lot of them.
                            Both power and the notion that
                            there is meaning in ones life
                            are quite clearly forms of
                            comfort, but the converse in
                            both cases is just as clearly
                            not true.


                            Hi Bruce:

                            You can state what the converse is if you want, but there is a bigger
                            mistake in this thinking.

                            It is all an effort to name the universe as something pre-existing or
                            objective. That is, this reasoning is seeking to understand
                            the 'world' as it "would be" regardless of an observer, instead of an
                            invention of the mind.

                            Love
                            bobby G.
                          • Gregory Goode
                            ... Hey Bobby G, Coming a bit late on this thread. What is meaning, and what purpose does it serve? Bruce and Jody could agree with you in your
                            Message 13 of 19 , Dec 24, 2003
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                              At 05:12 PM 12/24/2003 +0000, texasbg2000 wrote:

                              >Hi Bruce:
                              >
                              >You can state what the converse is if you want, but there is a bigger
                              >mistake in this thinking.
                              >
                              >It is all an effort to name the universe as something pre-existing or
                              >objective. That is, this reasoning is seeking to understand
                              >the 'world' as it "would be" regardless of an observer, instead of an
                              >invention of the mind.

                              Hey Bobby G,

                              Coming a bit late on this thread. "What is meaning, and what purpose does it serve?"

                              Bruce and Jody could agree with you in your characterization above. But they saying something a bit different. They're commenting on the motivations, the psychological angles. You are commenting on the metaphysical angle. It's a bit like one person commenting on the color of a teacup and the other person commenting on the shape.

                              --Greg
                            • texasbg2000
                              ... bigger ... or ... an ... purpose does it serve? ... above. But they saying something a bit different. They re commenting on the motivations, the
                              Message 14 of 19 , Dec 24, 2003
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                                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Gregory Goode
                                <goode@d...> wrote:
                                > At 05:12 PM 12/24/2003 +0000, texasbg2000 wrote:
                                >
                                > >Hi Bruce:
                                > >
                                > >You can state what the converse is if you want, but there is a
                                bigger
                                > >mistake in this thinking.
                                > >
                                > >It is all an effort to name the universe as something pre-existing
                                or
                                > >objective. That is, this reasoning is seeking to understand
                                > >the 'world' as it "would be" regardless of an observer, instead of
                                an
                                > >invention of the mind.
                                >
                                > Hey Bobby G,
                                >
                                > Coming a bit late on this thread. "What is meaning, and what
                                purpose does it serve?"
                                >
                                > Bruce and Jody could agree with you in your characterization
                                above. But they saying something a bit different. They're
                                commenting on the motivations, the psychological angles. You are
                                commenting on the metaphysical angle. It's a bit like one person
                                commenting on the color of a teacup and the other person commenting
                                on the shape.
                                >
                                > --Greg

                                Hi Gregg.

                                You are a good friend.

                                Love
                                Bobby G.
                              • Onniko
                                ... *v* Such a pleasurable search for meaning :O) This search for meaning reminds me of some mental play to help beginners in meditation to stop the constant
                                Message 15 of 19 , Dec 24, 2003
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                                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "texasbg2000"
                                  <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                                  > > Meaning = comfort.
                                  > > Pleasure = comfort.
                                  > > Power = comfort.
                                  >
                                  > Hi Jody:
                                  >
                                  > From my viewpoint the comfort thing is the pleasure one.
                                  >
                                  > But wanting to see everything as seeking comfort is the search for
                                  > meaning.
                                  >
                                  > Love
                                  > Boby G.

                                  *v* Such a pleasurable search for meaning :O) This search for
                                  meaning reminds me of some mental play to help beginners in
                                  meditation to stop the constant mental scanning for whatever
                                  it is that gives their life meaning. It does a good job of
                                  pulling the mind away from linear tasks and it's just so simple.
                                  It involves the thinker deliberately searching for meaning in their
                                  environment in the absolute most basic terms without adding any
                                  details mentally. Look for the height of things in space. Are they
                                  high or low? Hear the relative size of every sound. Look only for
                                  the color blue in everything you see no matter how muted. And
                                  others, of course, and one at a time. It helps to
                                  bring attention squarely to the here and now.
                                • texasbg2000
                                  ... for ... Precisely, the inner workings of the mind can be described by several means. But perception of the current makes them obsolete. Lov Bobby G.
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Dec 24, 2003
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                                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Onniko"
                                    <onniko@y...> wrote:
                                    > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "texasbg2000"
                                    > <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                                    > > > Meaning = comfort.
                                    > > > Pleasure = comfort.
                                    > > > Power = comfort.
                                    > >
                                    > > Hi Jody:
                                    > >
                                    > > From my viewpoint the comfort thing is the pleasure one.
                                    > >
                                    > > But wanting to see everything as seeking comfort is the search
                                    for
                                    > > meaning.
                                    > >
                                    > > Love
                                    > > Boby G.
                                    >
                                    > *v* Such a pleasurable search for meaning :O) This search for
                                    > meaning reminds me of some mental play to help beginners in
                                    > meditation to stop the constant mental scanning for whatever
                                    > it is that gives their life meaning. It does a good job of
                                    > pulling the mind away from linear tasks and it's just so simple.
                                    > It involves the thinker deliberately searching for meaning in their
                                    > environment in the absolute most basic terms without adding any
                                    > details mentally. Look for the height of things in space. Are they
                                    > high or low? Hear the relative size of every sound. Look only for
                                    > the color blue in everything you see no matter how muted. And
                                    > others, of course, and one at a time. It helps to
                                    > bring attention squarely to the here and now.

                                    Precisely, the inner workings of the mind can be described by several
                                    means. But perception of the current makes them obsolete.

                                    Lov
                                    Bobby G.
                                  • Nina
                                    ... purpose does it serve? ... above. But they saying something a bit different. They re commenting on the motivations, the psychological angles. You are
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Dec 24, 2003
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                                      > Hey Bobby G,
                                      >
                                      > Coming a bit late on this thread. "What is meaning, and what
                                      purpose does it serve?"
                                      >
                                      > Bruce and Jody could agree with you in your characterization
                                      above. But they saying something a bit different. They're
                                      commenting on the motivations, the psychological angles. You are
                                      commenting on the metaphysical angle. It's a bit like one person
                                      commenting on the color of a teacup and the other person commenting
                                      on the shape.
                                      >
                                      > --Greg

                                      Well, it seems they both agree on the teacup, eh?

                                      Nina
                                    • Bruce Morgen
                                      Nina wrote: Hey Bobby G, Coming a bit late on this thread. What is meaning, and what purpose does it serve? Bruce and Jody could agree with you in your
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Dec 24, 2003
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                                        Nina wrote:
                                        Hey Bobby G,
                                        
                                        Coming a bit late on this thread.  "What is meaning, and what 
                                            
                                        purpose does it serve?"  
                                          
                                        Bruce and Jody could agree with you in your characterization 
                                            
                                        above.  But they saying something a bit different.  They're 
                                        commenting on the motivations, the psychological angles.  You are 
                                        commenting on the metaphysical angle.  It's a bit like one person 
                                        commenting on the color of a teacup and the other person commenting 
                                        on the shape. 
                                          
                                        --Greg
                                            
                                        Well, it seems they both agree on the teacup, eh?
                                        
                                          
                                        I think it was either Sri Shankara or
                                        Lewis Carroll who said of teacups
                                        "They're real whilst in one."  :-)
                                      • Nina
                                        ... Hmm, how funny, what you wrote will not appear in my reply dialogue box. That s lovely, though, as what I was going to say, in reply to the teacups are
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Dec 24, 2003
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                                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
                                          <editor@j...> wrote:
                                          >

                                          Hmm, how funny, what you wrote will not appear in my
                                          reply dialogue box. That's lovely, though, as what I
                                          was going to say, in reply to the "teacups are real
                                          whilst in one" comment was:

                                          Real enough is good enough for me.

                                          Lewis Carroll... Alice in Wonderland (oops, I wrote
                                          'wonderful' to begin with lol!)... now that's a tale
                                          I'd like to revisit in light of these discussions
                                          about meaning. Meaning-making is a hobby of mine these
                                          days - I'm thrilled to have discovered that I'll be
                                          receiving Joseph Campbell's interviews on DVD for
                                          Christmas. (No, I was not snooping in the closets -
                                          my husband keeps buying stuff from amazon and they
                                          send all their notices to my email address. lol!)

                                          Nina


                                          Nina
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