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Utopian Society

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  • Graeme Porteous
    Some good discussion on a subject which is in my thoughts at the moment. My thoughts are going like this. Visions of Utopian societies can only be based on our
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 12, 2003
      Some good discussion on a subject which is in my thoughts at the moment.
       
      My thoughts are going like this.
       
      Visions of Utopian societies can only be based on our ideals born out of our very limited personal experience. We are attempting to find ' perfection ' just like we do with ourselves sometimes.
       
      What generally happens is that our ideal of personal ' perfection ' gets ground into the dirt by real life experience.
       
      There is Ideal and there is Reality.
       
      Utopian Societies are made up of Utopian citizens.
       
      Personally I have never met a Utopian citizen, just fallible human beings trying to do their best in a complex world.
       
      So given that we are all fallible. What is the best form of society?
       
      Is it not a form of society that intrinsically says ' no one has all the answers '.
       
      ' Let us seek to listen to all points of view and debate their merits. '
       
      Is that not what we have already in democracy?
       
      We as individuals may have our own ideas, heh we might even dehumanise people with opposing views. But the spirit of democracy says ' no - let us not dehumanise anyone, let us all seek to find the best way forward both individually and as a society. '
       
      graeme.  
    • jodyrrr
      The thing that s keeping a utopia from manifesting is our history as animals. There are very, very few animal utopias. Animal societies are top down
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 12, 2003
        The thing that's keeping a utopia from manifesting is our
        history as animals. There are very, very few animal utopias.
        Animal societies are top down hierarchies. Brute force provides
        the enforcement.

        Just like what we have today.

        We'll have to transcend our animal nature as a species before
        we'll see utopia.

        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Graeme Porteous"
        <graemewp@f...> wrote:
        > Some good discussion on a subject which is in my thoughts at the moment.
        >
        > My thoughts are going like this.
        >
        > Visions of Utopian societies can only be based on our ideals born out of our very
        limited personal experience. We are attempting to find ' perfection ' just like we do
        with ourselves sometimes.
        >
        > What generally happens is that our ideal of personal ' perfection ' gets ground into
        the dirt by real life experience.
        >
        > There is Ideal and there is Reality.
        >
        > Utopian Societies are made up of Utopian citizens.
        >
        > Personally I have never met a Utopian citizen, just fallible human beings trying to
        do their best in a complex world.
        >
        > So given that we are all fallible. What is the best form of society?
        >
        > Is it not a form of society that intrinsically says ' no one has all the answers '.
        >
        > ' Let us seek to listen to all points of view and debate their merits. '
        >
        > Is that not what we have already in democracy?
        >
        > We as individuals may have our own ideas, heh we might even dehumanise people
        with opposing views. But the spirit of democracy says ' no - let us not dehumanise
        anyone, let us all seek to find the best way forward both individually and as a society.
        '
        >
        > graeme.
      • Jason Fishman
        Thanks for the thoughts! I actually errored, in an unutopian fashion... I really shouldn t be calling what I was getting at a utopia. More along the lines of
        Message 3 of 3 , Dec 12, 2003
          Thanks for the thoughts!
           
          I actually errored, in an unutopian fashion... I really shouldn't be calling what I was getting at a utopia. More along the lines of keeping the population fed and watered, which is what I was pointing to as it could be everyones responsability to do and in corporated in any societal model. If you believe it is in a democrasy or a socialistic society it's not, but it does borrow from a communism, which could also include education and health care.
           
          Just some thoughts.
           
          Just my thoughts.
           
          Peace and Love

          Graeme Porteous <graemewp@...> wrote:
          Some good discussion on a subject which is in my thoughts at the moment.
           
          My thoughts are going like this.
           
          Visions of Utopian societies can only be based on our ideals born out of our very limited personal experience. We are attempting to find ' perfection ' just like we do with ourselves sometimes.
           
          What generally happens is that our ideal of personal ' perfection ' gets ground into the dirt by real life experience.
           
          There is Ideal and there is Reality.
           
          Utopian Societies are made up of Utopian citizens.
           
          Personally I have never met a Utopian citizen, just fallible human beings trying to do their best in a complex world.
           
          So given that we are all fallible. What is the best form of society?
           
          Is it not a form of society that intrinsically says ' no one has all the answers '.
           
          ' Let us seek to listen to all points of view and debate their merits. '
           
          Is that not what we have already in democracy?
           
          We as individuals may have our own ideas, heh we might even dehumanise people with opposing views. But the spirit of democracy says ' no - let us not dehumanise anyone, let us all seek to find the best way forward both individually and as a society. '
           
          graeme.  


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