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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Digest Number 848

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  • Andy
    ... Jeff...who suggests that comfort is not available? ~ andy p.s. There are probably lots of cosmic jokes! :-))))
    Message 1 of 101 , Dec 5, 2003
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Belyea
      <jeff@s...> wrote:

      > Far be it from me to want
      > to start any trouble, but...

      > Why would we (everyone) be
      > compelled to seek comfort
      > if it can not be found?
      >
      > Is it a cosmic joke?



      Jeff...who suggests that comfort is not available?


      ~ andy

      p.s. There are probably lots of cosmic jokes! :-))))
    • Andy
      ... wrote: Sg: have you ever stopped to think it might not be being *locked * into dualism ......... and that there was no need to throw
      Message 101 of 101 , Dec 10, 2003
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Swami-G"
        <manjusrilotus@y...> wrote:

        Sg: have you ever stopped to think it might not be being *locked
        * into dualism ......... and that there was no need to throw the
        baby out with the bathwater.....


        *****I'm OK with it either way: straight up, no chaser, or a mixed
        cocktail. One does what one is "guided" to do. I lived for six
        months in a strict, zen buddhist monastery, practicing 7 days of 12-
        14 hour sesshin each month. I continued the "practice" as an "out-
        patient" for another 12 years. It didn't work for me. However, I am
        not about to tell anyone else not to do it.


        while what tony parson says is right on one level one doesn't
        just *accept* the fact of non-duality ...... it is a living
        experience ....


        *****Absolutely.


        ie: Out of all the many awakenings that have recently been
        described to me, it is continuously confirmed that one of the first
        realisations that arises is the seeing that there was no-one and
        nothing to awaken.

        SG: yes and this is a point that must Come...... it isn't there
        unless it has been accessed and actualized ....... the paths are
        there as a way to access this .........


        *****Yes. And some paths are effective for one person and not for
        another. Each finds its way, its appropriate way.


        or here :

        The basic ignorance of the teaching of becoming is generated
        from the teacher who believes that they have personally attained
        enlightenment through choice and effort and that their disciples
        can do the same. But who is it that is going to choose to make
        the effort?

        SG: it was Sri Ramana's Choice to lie down and process the
        death experience ------ hence his liberation.......

        it was my Choice to surrender to the terror of self
        annihilation which then resulted in the illusion falling away......


        *****I would say that Choice happened through you; not that it
        was "your" choice. Just my take on it. I am, as you understand,
        biased. ;-)



        and without the experiences and path leading up to this point
        that would Not have occurred.....


        *****Two thoughts: first, yes, what occurred was "prepared for" by
        countless other experiences leading up to it. Absolutely! No event
        happens in isolation. Second, it is just not possible to say that
        the point reached would Not have occurrred wiithout the experiences
        and path. It just can't be known, as it did not happen. Had SG
        taken an alternative path, had different experiences, it is still a
        possibility that the point would have occurred. We just don't know
        enough to assert that with any certainty.


        yes one doesn't earn it ...... it
        has always been ........ but i am sure that in Every case there
        are actions which preceeded this event........ it is easy to
        dismiss what was before....... but i feel a fatal flaw to do
        so .......


        *****I would never dismiss what was before. Every moment is born
        from the infinite prior moments, has its inception there. It is all
        inter-connected.


        yes one can say that there was never anyone to be
        enlightened but this is a Direct Cognition and not an assumed or
        accepted belief or stance......... the rest falls away.......


        *****True. Otherwise one is just mouthing words. A bad actor.


        of course this type of teaching is going to please the masses
        after all there is nowhere to go and nothing to do ....... but my
        question with this is then why are you still suffering ?


        *****In fact, it is my experience that this type of teaching is NOT
        popular amongst the masses...it does not give one anything to DO...no
        practice, no anchor, not even any hope! Non-dual/Adviata preachings
        are quite UNpopular: "Hey man...what the fuck are you sayin' I don't
        got no free will" (followed by a punch to the mouth! Hahaha!!!!)


        case in point:

        tony parsons: In reality, what we all long for is absence . . . the
        absence of the "me" that seeks and feels separate. This is pure
        Advaita, which is not a teaching and is beyond understanding
        and the mind's limited ideas of becoming, destiny, karma and
        personal attainment.

        SG: yes..... it is beyond mind ...... Exactly....... therefore you
        can't Think or Accept your way there ..... the practices that are
        given in spiritual direction are there to still the mind so that it
        can go beyond the mental chatter and see the illusion of the *me*
        indentifications and conditionings...... they Only fall away
        with Direct Cognition......... this comes in a point of time ......


        *****I agree....they Only fall away with Direct
        Cognition...however...I do not agree that a still mind is a necessary
        prerequisite for such falling away. An observed mind, yes. A state
        of being in which thought is observed, impartially, nonpersonally
        (witnessed, if you'd like). That is useful. And so may a still mind
        be use - for some. None of these teachings, suggestions,
        stragtegies, techniques are for Everyone. Each will find the one
        which most "fits" his or her present needs. I don't view any as all
        inclusive.


        tony parsons:
        However, within the apparent drama of the search for oneness,
        we are witnessing a new readiness to really hear this rare but
        uncompromisingly clear message of absolute non-dualism.
        Already the effect is profoundly liberating.

        SG: of course people want to hear it ...... it is the Ultimate Ego
        stroke on the mundane level


        *****As I said above, I don't think most people want to hear it - and
        when it is heard, many respond in a very agressive and hostile
        manner - as if it is threatening.


        ....... what is it liberating ? a sense for a time of having more
        control ...... but soon this illusion will wear off and the suffering
        will become quite apparent which then one will either mentally
        attempt to dismiss as illusion........ after all one must hold this
        new concept in place....... but it is still only a coceptulized
        paradigm ........ and a conceptualized paradigm is quite a cheap
        imitation of the Real thing.......


        *****Tony Parsons admits as much: he repeatedly says that he is
        swapping concepts and they are not It.


        better to just bite the nail and do the practice to get the real thing
        rather than the cheap imitation...... and of course there is nothing
        that is *gotten* ....... one can use these words as a
        merry-go-round........ but the merry-go-round ends with Direct
        Experience that negates all phenomenal experience ...... the
        one that dissolves the illusion of separate self within the Vast
        Self which has no second ........


        *****I would say: each bodymind mechanism will be guided by What It
        Is to find its own way Home in the manner that is most suited to
        itself. For some that will be a traditional practice. It is just
        not a prescription for each and every seeker.

        < just another view along the road> Om


        *****Thank you for the view. I enjoy your communings here and
        genuinely appreciate your doing so with me.
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