Re: [Meditation Society of America] Digest Number 848
- Far be it from me to want
to start any trouble, but...
Why would we (everyone) be
compelled to seek comfort
if it can not be found?
Is it a cosmic joke?
Jeff Belyea, Partner
SuiteOne Design Group
144 Fore Street
Portland, Maine 04112
Do you have a goal in mind?
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Swami-G"
Sg: have you ever stopped to think it might not be being *locked
* into dualism ......... and that there was no need to throw the
baby out with the bathwater.....
*****I'm OK with it either way: straight up, no chaser, or a mixed
cocktail. One does what one is "guided" to do. I lived for six
months in a strict, zen buddhist monastery, practicing 7 days of 12-
14 hour sesshin each month. I continued the "practice" as an "out-
patient" for another 12 years. It didn't work for me. However, I am
not about to tell anyone else not to do it.
while what tony parson says is right on one level one doesn't
just *accept* the fact of non-duality ...... it is a living
ie: Out of all the many awakenings that have recently been
described to me, it is continuously confirmed that one of the first
realisations that arises is the seeing that there was no-one and
nothing to awaken.
SG: yes and this is a point that must Come...... it isn't there
unless it has been accessed and actualized ....... the paths are
there as a way to access this .........
*****Yes. And some paths are effective for one person and not for
another. Each finds its way, its appropriate way.
or here :
The basic ignorance of the teaching of becoming is generated
from the teacher who believes that they have personally attained
enlightenment through choice and effort and that their disciples
can do the same. But who is it that is going to choose to make
SG: it was Sri Ramana's Choice to lie down and process the
death experience ------ hence his liberation.......
it was my Choice to surrender to the terror of self
annihilation which then resulted in the illusion falling away......
*****I would say that Choice happened through you; not that it
was "your" choice. Just my take on it. I am, as you understand,
and without the experiences and path leading up to this point
that would Not have occurred.....
*****Two thoughts: first, yes, what occurred was "prepared for" by
countless other experiences leading up to it. Absolutely! No event
happens in isolation. Second, it is just not possible to say that
the point reached would Not have occurrred wiithout the experiences
and path. It just can't be known, as it did not happen. Had SG
taken an alternative path, had different experiences, it is still a
possibility that the point would have occurred. We just don't know
enough to assert that with any certainty.
yes one doesn't earn it ...... it
has always been ........ but i am sure that in Every case there
are actions which preceeded this event........ it is easy to
dismiss what was before....... but i feel a fatal flaw to do
*****I would never dismiss what was before. Every moment is born
from the infinite prior moments, has its inception there. It is all
yes one can say that there was never anyone to be
enlightened but this is a Direct Cognition and not an assumed or
accepted belief or stance......... the rest falls away.......
*****True. Otherwise one is just mouthing words. A bad actor.
of course this type of teaching is going to please the masses
after all there is nowhere to go and nothing to do ....... but my
question with this is then why are you still suffering ?
*****In fact, it is my experience that this type of teaching is NOT
popular amongst the masses...it does not give one anything to DO...no
practice, no anchor, not even any hope! Non-dual/Adviata preachings
are quite UNpopular: "Hey man...what the fuck are you sayin' I don't
got no free will" (followed by a punch to the mouth! Hahaha!!!!)
case in point:
tony parsons: In reality, what we all long for is absence . . . the
absence of the "me" that seeks and feels separate. This is pure
Advaita, which is not a teaching and is beyond understanding
and the mind's limited ideas of becoming, destiny, karma and
SG: yes..... it is beyond mind ...... Exactly....... therefore you
can't Think or Accept your way there ..... the practices that are
given in spiritual direction are there to still the mind so that it
can go beyond the mental chatter and see the illusion of the *me*
indentifications and conditionings...... they Only fall away
with Direct Cognition......... this comes in a point of time ......
*****I agree....they Only fall away with Direct
Cognition...however...I do not agree that a still mind is a necessary
prerequisite for such falling away. An observed mind, yes. A state
of being in which thought is observed, impartially, nonpersonally
(witnessed, if you'd like). That is useful. And so may a still mind
be use - for some. None of these teachings, suggestions,
stragtegies, techniques are for Everyone. Each will find the one
which most "fits" his or her present needs. I don't view any as all
However, within the apparent drama of the search for oneness,
we are witnessing a new readiness to really hear this rare but
uncompromisingly clear message of absolute non-dualism.
Already the effect is profoundly liberating.
SG: of course people want to hear it ...... it is the Ultimate Ego
stroke on the mundane level
*****As I said above, I don't think most people want to hear it - and
when it is heard, many respond in a very agressive and hostile
manner - as if it is threatening.
....... what is it liberating ? a sense for a time of having more
control ...... but soon this illusion will wear off and the suffering
will become quite apparent which then one will either mentally
attempt to dismiss as illusion........ after all one must hold this
new concept in place....... but it is still only a coceptulized
paradigm ........ and a conceptualized paradigm is quite a cheap
imitation of the Real thing.......
*****Tony Parsons admits as much: he repeatedly says that he is
swapping concepts and they are not It.
better to just bite the nail and do the practice to get the real thing
rather than the cheap imitation...... and of course there is nothing
that is *gotten* ....... one can use these words as a
merry-go-round........ but the merry-go-round ends with Direct
Experience that negates all phenomenal experience ...... the
one that dissolves the illusion of separate self within the Vast
Self which has no second ........
*****I would say: each bodymind mechanism will be guided by What It
Is to find its own way Home in the manner that is most suited to
itself. For some that will be a traditional practice. It is just
not a prescription for each and every seeker.
< just another view along the road> Om
*****Thank you for the view. I enjoy your communings here and
genuinely appreciate your doing so with me.