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Re: [Meditation Society of America] apperception? Sandeep

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  • Jason Fishman
    Yes, there is a seperation though, and that is time. Not as an existence apart from totality, but as inherent dissection of time degradation across memory.
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 1, 2003
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      Yes, there is a seperation though, and that is time. Not as an existence apart from totality, but as inherent dissection of time degradation across memory. Moment to moment is degradation of instantanious (slowing this apperception), memory not being stored, but contained through all of exsistence and non-exsitence (due to perception). As moment to moment passes, degradation of connection, to the point of complete seperation from total memory, thoughout a perceptual exsitence.
       
      Every born being, has never been born apart from a total truth, but through time becomes conditioned to "live" within the confines of perceptual exsistence, which is the said beings total truth, in that moment. Through moment to moment, reconnection throughout space occurs and instantly eliminates what time has seperated. The longer apart in space, the further away from connection. This is seen as energy moves through space degrading over time, seperating, being dissected apart. The underlying connection, reconstruction of the hologram can always be returned from a single redundent part, but through space, moment to moment will seperate.
       
      I don't doubt the uncertainty of any process, since it seems impossible to understand God, through change.
       
      Peace and Love

      Sandeep <sandeepc@...> wrote:
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 12:08 PM
      Subject: [Meditation Society of America] apperception? Sandeep




      Hi Sandeep:

      I will see if I understand you. 

      Nothing needs to be considered as good or bad action because any action is taken simply as the result of the gestalt or deposit of actions that lead to it.  It is completely impersonal.  There is noone to do it, it just happens because of the Matrix so to speak.
      The term Matrix has now taken a dramatic hue, thanks to the movie, but decades back, the holographic nature of movement was reached by fundamental Science.
       
      I think it was in the 70s, that Bell came up with his theorem of Non-Locality.
       
      If you are somewhat scientifically inclined, have a look at "Upanashids, Bell Theorem, Holographic Universe" at
       
       
      and "The Holographic Universe" at
       
       
       
      Things happen as they happen in the moment,...........whether at the Univsersal/cosmic level,....global, national, communal, societal, individual, molecular, sub-ionic levels, ..............because the Universe is the way it is,........ in THAT moment.
       
      Every cause is a Universal cause, every effect is a Universal effect.
       
      "Pulla a blade of grass and shale the Universe."
       
      There is no " independent individual self",......... doing anything.
       
      Something, which can be easily investigated and seen.
       
      Take any action, (which could be a thought, a choosing among thoughts, aka a decision, or a physical action),
       
      .........about which you are conpletely and totally convinced was a result of Bobby's independent volition,.....
       
      ....and unravel it to ascertain just what independent volition got excercised in that event.
       
       


      The conditioning in the moment.

      To explain something is to live out your karma to explain.  To kill another is to live out the cultural deposit that led to the killing.  This takes ethics out of the realm of the "real".
       
      Yes.
      If I AM, .................is all there was,..............all there is,...............is all that there is to be,.......
       
      ..........then I have to be,......both the sinner and the saint, in simultaneous time, .........isn't it?
      If I AM the Primordial cause and I am the phenomenal effect of that primordial cause,.......
       
      .......then it can either be said, that all karmas are mine,...............or.................there is nothing like karmas.
       
      While the popular connotation of the term "karma" is fate,.........it is actually means action.
       


      If I got that much right, then I will try to go a little further.  There is apperception (of the moment to moment?) or there is not.  It does not affect the events as they unfold.  Do whatever you are moved to.
       
      Indeed.
      And this can be easily ascertained, as suggested above.


      Events unfold, Motivation is moot
       
      Yes, ........including the unfolding of an appearance, which is hell-bent motivated to search for the cure of AIDS virus, or the artist, which throws a dozen painted canvases away, searching for that "the" expressioning.
       
       
       
      and apperception does not hinge upon it.
       
      The term apperception, is just another term, as conceptual as any.
       
      It connotes the perceiving WITHOUT a "perceiver" thereof.


      I have added my phrases to see if I am on the right track with understanding you.
      :-)
       

      >
      > >
      > > At some point the concept can be seen as such, and meditation is not
      > > hindered by it.
      >
      >
      > Meditation which is "hinderable" or which is "enhanceable:,.............is a technique,.............not meditation.
      >
      > The state of meditation, is really the end of the concept of meditation,......and thus the end of the "meditator".
      >
      > It is thus not dependant on ideation, any ideation, any conceptualization, (Zennic or Buddhist or Advaitic or Bhakti)....is not dependant on.....time, ........surrounding environ, ........place, .........or eventings which are happening in the moment.

      I think you are saying here that meditation is the "natural state".  With meditation there are no concepts or conceiver; just the state of meditation.
      Yes.
       
      And since naturalness is already the case, you cannot become what you already are.
       
      Which does not preclude having fun with the particular techniques of meditation.
       
      In playfulness, ............which then does not serve to enact the same old game, i.e. a "means" to some "end".
       
       


      Actually that is what I was referring to in my remark.

      E. said "1. The concept of escaping the chain of causation
      > > > > > is a motivation for living an ethical life." 

      And I responded that at some point the concept can be seen as such, perceived as a concept, and then meditation is not hindered by it.

      I hope you will let me know if I am on the right track.
       
      :-)
       
      Try out the investigation and share what arose in that unravelling,.......
       
      ......if you are moved to, ofcourse<LOL>
       
       
       
       


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    • texasbg2000
      ... Very nice Sandeep! I enjoyed this very much. And thank you for taking the time to compile this. About the simultaneity of two particles separated in
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 1, 2003
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sandeep
        <sandeepc@b...> wrote:

        >
        > http://www.the-covenant.net/rumb02.htm


        Very nice Sandeep! I enjoyed this very much. And thank you for
        taking the time to compile this.

        About the simultaneity of two particles separated in space. Isn't
        this like telepathy?

        In practicing ahimsa I started to take note of the ants underfoot.
        After trying to avoid them for some time in my walking meditations I
        found that I would occasionally look down for ants and there would be
        one on his way to exactly where my foot was headed.

        Soon I grew confident that I would never step on antother ant. I
        communed with ants is one way to look at it.

        I also imagined that Consciousness was one, and the presented thought
        of "there is an ant down there" came into being in my mind in a
        fashion some refer to as telepathy. Space and time of course are not
        relevant here. But physicists don't really like that way of saying
        it.

        Love
        Bobby G.
      • Sandeep
        ... From: texasbg2000 To: Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 11:11 PM Subject: Re:
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 1, 2003
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@...>
          Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 11:11 PM
          Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] apperception? Sandeep

          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sandeep
          > <
          face=Arial size=2>sandeepc@b...> wrote:
          >
          > >
          > >  
          href="http://www.the-covenant.net/rumb02.htm">http://www.the-covenant.net/rumb02.htm
          >
          >
          > Very nice Sandeep!  I enjoyed this very
          much.  And thank you for
          > taking the time to compile
          this.
           
           
          You are welcome

          >
          > About the simultaneity of two particles
          separated in space.  Isn't
          > this like telepathy?
           
          Yes, as the Aspect experiments showed.

          >
          > In practicing ahimsa I started to take note
          of the ants underfoot. 
          > After trying to avoid them for some time
          in my walking meditations I
          > found that I would occasionally look down
          for ants and there would be
          > one on his way to exactly where my foot was
          headed.
           
           
          :-)
          Yes.
          The incidence of synchronicities, increases exponentially.
           

          >
          > Soon I grew confident that I would never
          step on antother ant. I
          > communed with ants is one way to look at
          it. 
          >
          > I also imagined that Consciousness was one, and the
          presented thought
          > of "there is an ant down there" came into being in my
          mind in a
          > fashion some refer to as telepathy.
           
           
          At the same time, Bobby,...........it would be the same Consciousness which would have manifested itself as an object or objects which would appear to be the epitome of "himsa" and keep crushing ants by the hundreds.
           
          I am one with all things
          in beauty, in ugliness
          for whatsoever is, there I am
          Not only in virtue
          but in sin too I am a partner:
          and not only heaven but hell too is mine.
          Buddha, Jesus, Lao tzu-
          it is easy to be their heir
          But Genghis, Taimur and Hitler?
          They are also within me!
          no, not half- I AM THE WHOLE
          Whatsoever's is man's, is mine-
          flowers and thorns
          darkness as well as light
          And if nectar is mine, whose is poison?
          NECTAR AND POISON-BOTH ARE MINE
           
           
           
           
           Space and time of course are not  relevant here.  But physicists don't really like that way of saying  it.
           
           
          Well it is amazing what is happening in the field of Science.
          There is far more convergence to spirituality in Science, today, than in the field of spirituality.
           
          Karta (I think she is on this List also) has recently posted elsewhere, an interview with Dr Amit Goswami, (A professor of physics at the University of Oregon and a member of its Institute of Theoretical Science

          From that interview,...... "that the universe, in order to exist, requires a conscious sentient being to be aware of it. Without an observer, he claims, it only exists as a possibility. And as they say in the world of science, Goswami has done his math. Marshalling evidence from recent research in cognitive psychology, biology, parapsychology and quantum physics, and leaning heavily on the ancient mystical traditions of the world, Goswami is building a case for a new paradigm that he calls "monistic idealism," the view that consciousness, not matter, is the foundation of everything that is.

          He has written a book  The Self-Aware Universe: How Consciousness Creates the Material World.

           
           

           
        • texasbg2000
          ... Consciousness which would have manifested itself as an object or objects which would appear to be the epitome of himsa and keep crushing ants by the
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 1, 2003
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            > At the same time, Bobby,...........it would be the same
            Consciousness which would have manifested itself as an object or
            objects which would appear to be the epitome of "himsa" and keep
            crushing ants by the hundreds.
            >
            > I am one with all things
            > in beauty, in ugliness
            > for whatsoever is, there I am
            >
            > Not only in virtue
            > but in sin too I am a partner:
            > and not only heaven but hell too is mine.
            >
            > Buddha, Jesus, Lao tzu-
            > it is easy to be their heir
            > But Genghis, Taimur and Hitler?
            > They are also within me!
            >
            > no, not half- I AM THE WHOLE
            > Whatsoever's is man's, is mine-
            > flowers and thorns
            > darkness as well as light
            >
            > And if nectar is mine, whose is poison?
            > NECTAR AND POISON-BOTH ARE MINE

            This is interesting to me on a personal basis right now. I have
            come to see those actions of mine that I do not like, those thoughts
            or memories that indicate weakness or mean spirited tendencies are
            aspects of my psyche.

            I once thought of them as weaknesses or things that happen
            occasionally but are not really me. But they are as much really me
            as the thoughtful caring person that I prefer to dwell on. It is
            more healthy to think of these traits as part of me than to think
            that I am something different from them and that sometimes I "fall
            off the wagon" and do something out of character. That is denial.

            Love
            Bobby G.
            No, Karta is gone.
          • Sandeep
            ... From: texasbg2000 To: Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 11:20 AM Subject: Re:
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 1, 2003
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              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@...>
              Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 11:20 AM
              Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] apperception? Sandeep

              > > At the same time, Bobby,...........it would be the same
              > Consciousness which would have manifested itself as
              an object or
              > objects which would appear to be the epitome of "himsa"
              and keep
              > crushing ants by the hundreds.
              > >
              > > I am
              one with all things
              > > in beauty, in ugliness
              > > for
              whatsoever is, there I am
              > >
              > > Not only in virtue
              > > but in sin too I am a partner:
              > > and not only heaven but hell
              too is mine.
              > >
              > > Buddha, Jesus, Lao tzu-
              > > it
              is easy to be their heir
              > > But Genghis, Taimur and Hitler?
              > > They are also within me!
              > >
              > > no, not half- I AM THE
              WHOLE
              > > Whatsoever's is man's, is mine-
              > > flowers and
              thorns
              > > darkness as well as light
              > >
              > > And if
              nectar is mine, whose is poison?
              > > NECTAR AND POISON-BOTH ARE
              MINE
              >
              > This is interesting to me on a personal basis right
              now.   I have
              > come to see those actions of mine  that I
              do not like, those thoughts
              > or memories that indicate weakness or mean
              spirited tendencies are
              > aspects of my psyche.
              >
              > I once
              thought of them as weaknesses or things that happen
              > occasionally but
              are not really me.  But they are as much really me
              > as the
              thoughtful caring person that I prefer to dwell on.  It is
              > more
              healthy to think of these traits as part of me than to think
              > that I am
              something different from them  and that sometimes I "fall
              > off the
              wagon" and do something out of character.  That is denial.
               
               
              Denial when seen, does not remain so,.........isn't it?:-)
               
               
              There is really no "on the wagon" or "off the wagon".
               
              There is just the speeding wagon,........sometimes bumpily, sometimes smoothly.
               
              The seeing of the speeding wagon,........is seeing that both the bump and the smoothness, are I.
               
              The suffering of the "wave" in the Ocean arises from the prevailing sense of being a "wave, an individual independent self.
               
              Because then it is oscillated between the heights of crest and the depths of troughs.
               
              The ecstasy and the agony.
               
              The serenity of the Ocean, is not in the absence of the oscillations, .......but in the seeing that both the crest and the trough,......both is nothing but the movement of itself.
                 
               
               
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