Re: [Meditation Society of America] apperception? Sandeep
- Yes, there is a seperation though, and that is time. Not as an existence apart from totality, but as inherent dissection of time degradation across memory. Moment to moment is degradation of instantanious (slowing this apperception), memory not being stored, but contained through all of exsistence and non-exsitence (due to perception). As moment to moment passes, degradation of connection, to the point of complete seperation from total memory, thoughout a perceptual exsitence.Every born being, has never been born apart from a total truth, but through time becomes conditioned to "live" within the confines of perceptual exsistence, which is the said beings total truth, in that moment. Through moment to moment, reconnection throughout space occurs and instantly eliminates what time has seperated. The longer apart in space, the further away from connection. This is seen as energy moves through space degrading over time, seperating, being dissected apart. The underlying connection, reconstruction of the hologram can always be returned from a single redundent part, but through space, moment to moment will seperate.I don't doubt the uncertainty of any process, since it seems impossible to understand God, through change.Peace and Love
Sandeep <sandeepc@...> wrote:----- Original Message -----From: Bigbobgraham@...Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 12:08 PMSubject: [Meditation Society of America] apperception? Sandeep
I will see if I understand you.
Nothing needs to be considered as good or bad action because any action is taken simply as the result of the gestalt or deposit of actions that lead to it. It is completely impersonal. There is noone to do it, it just happens because of the Matrix so to speak.The term Matrix has now taken a dramatic hue, thanks to the movie, but decades back, the holographic nature of movement was reached by fundamental Science.I think it was in the 70s, that Bell came up with his theorem of Non-Locality.If you are somewhat scientifically inclined, have a look at "Upanashids, Bell Theorem, Holographic Universe" atand "The Holographic Universe" atThings happen as they happen in the moment,...........whether at the Univsersal/cosmic level,....global, national, communal, societal, individual, molecular, sub-ionic levels, ..............because the Universe is the way it is,........ in THAT moment.Every cause is a Universal cause, every effect is a Universal effect."Pulla a blade of grass and shale the Universe."There is no " independent individual self",......... doing anything.Something, which can be easily investigated and seen.Take any action, (which could be a thought, a choosing among thoughts, aka a decision, or a physical action),.........about which you are conpletely and totally convinced was a result of Bobby's independent volition,.........and unravel it to ascertain just what independent volition got excercised in that event.
The conditioning in the moment.
To explain something is to live out your karma to explain. To kill another is to live out the cultural deposit that led to the killing. This takes ethics out of the realm of the "real".Yes.If I AM, .................is all there was,..............all there is,...............is all that there is to be,.................then I have to be,......both the sinner and the saint, in simultaneous time, .........isn't it?If I AM the Primordial cause and I am the phenomenal effect of that primordial cause,..............then it can either be said, that all karmas are mine,...............or.................there is nothing like karmas.While the popular connotation of the term "karma" is fate,.........it is actually means action.
If I got that much right, then I will try to go a little further. There is apperception (of the moment to moment?) or there is not. It does not affect the events as they unfold. Do whatever you are moved to.Indeed.And this can be easily ascertained, as suggested above.
Events unfold, Motivation is mootYes, ........including the unfolding of an appearance, which is hell-bent motivated to search for the cure of AIDS virus, or the artist, which throws a dozen painted canvases away, searching for that "the" expressioning.and apperception does not hinge upon it.The term apperception, is just another term, as conceptual as any.It connotes the perceiving WITHOUT a "perceiver" thereof.
I have added my phrases to see if I am on the right track with understanding you.:-)I think you are saying here that meditation is the "natural state". With meditation there are no concepts or conceiver; just the state of meditation.
> > At some point the concept can be seen as such, and meditation is not
> > hindered by it.
> Meditation which is "hinderable" or which is "enhanceable:,.............is a technique,.............not meditation.
> The state of meditation, is really the end of the concept of meditation,......and thus the end of the "meditator".
> It is thus not dependant on ideation, any ideation, any conceptualization, (Zennic or Buddhist or Advaitic or Bhakti)....is not dependant on.....time, ........surrounding environ, ........place, .........or eventings which are happening in the moment.Yes.And since naturalness is already the case, you cannot become what you already are.Which does not preclude having fun with the particular techniques of meditation.In playfulness, ............which then does not serve to enact the same old game, i.e. a "means" to some "end".
Actually that is what I was referring to in my remark.
E. said "1. The concept of escaping the chain of causation
> > > > > is a motivation for living an ethical life."
And I responded that at some point the concept can be seen as such, perceived as a concept, and then meditation is not hindered by it.
I hope you will let me know if I am on the right track.:-)Try out the investigation and share what arose in that unravelling,.............if you are moved to, ofcourse<LOL>
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- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, Sandeep
taking the time to compile this.
About the simultaneity of two particles separated in space. Isn't
this like telepathy?
In practicing ahimsa I started to take note of the ants underfoot.
After trying to avoid them for some time in my walking meditations I
found that I would occasionally look down for ants and there would be
one on his way to exactly where my foot was headed.
Soon I grew confident that I would never step on antother ant. I
communed with ants is one way to look at it.
I also imagined that Consciousness was one, and the presented thought
of "there is an ant down there" came into being in my mind in a
fashion some refer to as telepathy. Space and time of course are not
relevant here. But physicists don't really like that way of saying
- ----- Original Message -----From: "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@...>Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 11:11 PMSubject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] apperception? Sandeep> --- In email@example.com, Sandeep
> <face=Arial size=2>sandeepc@b...> wrote:
>much. And thank you for
> Very nice Sandeep! I enjoyed this very
> taking the time to compilethis.You are welcome
> About the simultaneity of two particlesseparated in space. Isn't
> this like telepathy?Yes, as the Aspect experiments showed.
>of the ants underfoot.
> In practicing ahimsa I started to take note
> After trying to avoid them for some timein my walking meditations I
> found that I would occasionally look downfor ants and there would be
> one on his way to exactly where my foot washeaded.:-)Yes.The incidence of synchronicities, increases exponentially.
> Soon I grew confident that I would neverstep on antother ant. I
> communed with ants is one way to look atit.
> I also imagined that Consciousness was one, and the
> of "there is an ant down there" came into being in mymind in a
> fashion some refer to as telepathy.At the same time, Bobby,...........it would be the same Consciousness which would have manifested itself as an object or objects which would appear to be the epitome of "himsa" and keep crushing ants by the hundreds.I am one with all things
in beauty, in ugliness
for whatsoever is, there I amNot only in virtue
but in sin too I am a partner:
and not only heaven but hell too is mine.Buddha, Jesus, Lao tzu-
it is easy to be their heir
But Genghis, Taimur and Hitler?
They are also within me!no, not half- I AM THE WHOLE
Whatsoever's is man's, is mine-
flowers and thorns
darkness as well as lightAnd if nectar is mine, whose is poison?
NECTAR AND POISON-BOTH ARE MINESpace and time of course are not relevant here. But physicists don't really like that way of saying it.Well it is amazing what is happening in the field of Science.There is far more convergence to spirituality in Science, today, than in the field of spirituality.Karta (I think she is on this List also) has recently posted elsewhere, an interview with Dr Amit Goswami, (A professor of physics at the University of Oregon and a member of its Institute of Theoretical Science
From that interview,...... "that the universe, in order to exist, requires a conscious sentient being to be aware of it. Without an observer, he claims, it only exists as a possibility. And as they say in the world of science, Goswami has done his math. Marshalling evidence from recent research in cognitive psychology, biology, parapsychology and quantum physics, and leaning heavily on the ancient mystical traditions of the world, Goswami is building a case for a new paradigm that he calls "monistic idealism," the view that consciousness, not matter, is the foundation of everything that is.
He has written a book The Self-Aware Universe: How Consciousness Creates the Material World.
> At the same time, Bobby,...........it would be the sameConsciousness which would have manifested itself as an object or
objects which would appear to be the epitome of "himsa" and keep
crushing ants by the hundreds.
>This is interesting to me on a personal basis right now. I have
> I am one with all things
> in beauty, in ugliness
> for whatsoever is, there I am
> Not only in virtue
> but in sin too I am a partner:
> and not only heaven but hell too is mine.
> Buddha, Jesus, Lao tzu-
> it is easy to be their heir
> But Genghis, Taimur and Hitler?
> They are also within me!
> no, not half- I AM THE WHOLE
> Whatsoever's is man's, is mine-
> flowers and thorns
> darkness as well as light
> And if nectar is mine, whose is poison?
> NECTAR AND POISON-BOTH ARE MINE
come to see those actions of mine that I do not like, those thoughts
or memories that indicate weakness or mean spirited tendencies are
aspects of my psyche.
I once thought of them as weaknesses or things that happen
occasionally but are not really me. But they are as much really me
as the thoughtful caring person that I prefer to dwell on. It is
more healthy to think of these traits as part of me than to think
that I am something different from them and that sometimes I "fall
off the wagon" and do something out of character. That is denial.
No, Karta is gone.
- ----- Original Message -----From: "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@...>Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 11:20 AMSubject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] apperception? Sandeep> > At the same time, Bobby,...........it would be the same
> Consciousness which would have manifested itself asan object or
> objects which would appear to be the epitome of "himsa"and keep
> crushing ants by the hundreds.one with all things
> > I am
> > in beauty, in uglinesswhatsoever is, there I am
> > for
> >too is mine.
> > Not only in virtue
> > but in sin too I am a partner:
> > and not only heaven but hell
> >is easy to be their heir
> > Buddha, Jesus, Lao tzu-
> > it
> > But Genghis, Taimur and Hitler?WHOLE
> > They are also within me!
> > no, not half- I AM THE
> > Whatsoever's is man's, is mine-thorns
> > flowers and
> > darkness as well as lightnectar is mine, whose is poison?
> > And if
> > NECTAR AND POISON-BOTH AREMINE
>now. I have
> This is interesting to me on a personal basis right
> come to see those actions of mine that Ido not like, those thoughts
> or memories that indicate weakness or meanspirited tendencies are
> aspects of my psyche.thought of them as weaknesses or things that happen
> I once
> occasionally butare not really me. But they are as much really me
> as thethoughtful caring person that I prefer to dwell on. It is
> morehealthy to think of these traits as part of me than to think
> that I amsomething different from them and that sometimes I "fall
> off thewagon" and do something out of character. That is denial.Denial when seen, does not remain so,.........isn't it?:-)There is really no "on the wagon" or "off the wagon".There is just the speeding wagon,........sometimes bumpily, sometimes smoothly.The seeing of the speeding wagon,........is seeing that both the bump and the smoothness, are I.The suffering of the "wave" in the Ocean arises from the prevailing sense of being a "wave, an individual independent self.Because then it is oscillated between the heights of crest and the depths of troughs.The ecstasy and the agony.The serenity of the Ocean, is not in the absence of the oscillations, .......but in the seeing that both the crest and the trough,......both is nothing but the movement of itself.