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[Meditation Society of America] Re: Dealing With Life Meditations/Jody

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  • Andy
    ... *****Well, Jody, this is what I am questioning: IS there any tragedy (outside of the story we tell ourselves about how things should be)? Care to look
    Message 1 of 123 , Nov 30, 2003
      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
      <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:

      > > *****Jody, how about dropping the "sadly"?
      > >
      > > What is true for me is that it is not "sad." It is how it is.
      > >
      > > The "missing" you allude to is actually part of the game. Some
      > > miss it, some don't. The game entails all aspects
      > > of 'phenomenality: the good the bad and the ugly. ;-)
      > >
      > > It is only the stories we tell ourselves about "how"
      > > things "should" be that create the sadness. Drop the stories,
      > > there is no sadness. There is "As It IS," and only that.
      > >
      > > Hugs!

      > I don't know Andy. As an individual, it's hard not to see the
      > tragedy inherent in most of the obsessive seeking that goes on,
      > especially when it's combined and reinforced by a rigid adherence
      > to whichever ideology has been accepted as the truth outside
      > of experiential understanding.

      *****Well, Jody, this is what I am questioning:

      IS there any tragedy (outside of the story we tell ourselves about
      how things "should" be)?

      Care to look further?

      The notion of "tragedy" can only exist when held within a context
      that posits "not tragedy." Both of these are stories (thoughts) born
      in a conceptual universe that exists only in the birther's mind. The
      Actual Universe may, in fact, be nothing like that mental construct.

      > For instance, the Vedanta Society in America is full of pruny old
      > men and woman who have read Ramakrishna and Vivekananda
      > with an uncritical eye and have been assisted by uncritical swamis.
      > These folk have been led to believe that if they suspend their
      > sex lives they will eventually come to see themselves as they
      > really are. These folk all live in the expectation that
      > understanding will arrive as the result of continence. I find this
      > to be utterly tragic and sad, as they have sacrificed a good deal
      > of their comfort in this world for nothing.

      *****Yes, I can appreciate how you see this. Is there some
      projection going on here? Is Jody *imagining* how life "must" be
      like for these pruny old men and women, self-deprived of the
      pleasures of the flesh? In that imagining does Jody experience the
      tragedy of a life lived in this way?

      You see it as a sacrifice. Perhaps, to them, it is not experienced
      as such? Perhaps, to them, there is great joy found in following
      such precepts?

      What I am suggesting is that there may be more than one "truth" at
      work here: Jody's, Andy's, Sandeep's, Eglaelin's, the pruny old men
      and women! Why assume that what is truth for you is so for others?
      That can only occur when one projects how life is for oneself
      onto "what life must be like for others," making the assumption that
      they are one and the same.

      > Not that it wouldn't have been worth it if it actually worked like
      > this, but that sex has absolutely nothing to do with who we
      > really are. Stopping sex does not necessarily affect us knowing
      > who we are, but the expectation that ending sex guarantees the
      > establishment of understanding actually can prevent understanding
      > from arising in a life.

      *****It can, and yet, even then, whilst living a monastic life,
      understanding may appear. The emergence of liberation is not
      affected by anything that one does, and once their is a belief that
      you have to be a certain way, you have entirely missed the point.
      The infinite is all there is, and as a consequence the rules or
      standards that our minds would set up for any kind of awakening
      simply do not apply. (Tony Parsons)

      > It's like the eggs of the cowbird.
      > The cowbird had developed an interesting reproduction strategy.
      > The female finds the nest of another local species of bird and
      > removes that bird's eggs, layer hers in their place.
      > Then she simply takes off and lets the other bird raise her
      > young.
      > Expectations about understanding are like the cowbird's eggs.
      > Thoughts and ideas about understanding serve to take the
      > place of the *actual* understanding that is sought.

      *****Until they don't. How, why, and when such understanding happens
      is a Mysterie. The human brain does not like mysteries, and so, via
      the brain, explanations, stories, and plays, are created to explain
      the unexplainable. It provides one with a sense of security.

      > How can we know ourselves as we've *always* known ourselves
      > if our heads are full of ideas about what we *think* we know
      > about ourselves. The understanding that is sought is *always*
      > available, but the *ideas* about what this understanding *is*
      > easily replace the actual recognition of this understanding as it
      > exists in us.

      *****And that is as it is.

      > It's always right there, front and center, but we cannot see it
      > behind all the ideas we might have about it. Like looking for
      > a pair of glasses we left on our head, we keep looking harder
      > and harder everywhere *but* our head. When we are blessed
      > enough to finally see that we had our glasses the whole time
      > we were looking for them, only then can we see that the
      > whole process of looking for them and expecting them to
      > be something we had imagined had actually been the causes
      > of not seeing them in the first place.
      > To me, there is something utterly tragic in this, and most all
      > the other aspects of spiritual culture, a great deal of which
      > serves to occlude the truth rather than reveal it in my opinion.

      *****Again, consider that all you describe above is simply...what
      is. Nothing more, nothing less.

      There is no tragedy in anything, until a point-of-view is adopted.
      That pov says "this is what should be," and compares "what should be"
      to "what is." Tragedy is born, then, in the distance between the
      two. But what if there is no pov? What if there is simply, what
      is? Where is the tragedy then? (Of course, then, there is
      no "drama" and most humans are addicted to drama.)

    • devi@pacific.net
      ... Patanjali. ... formed. ... devi: i have it on order from the library, i ve already read about four or five commentaries, most from indian scholors, i m
      Message 123 of 123 , Dec 17, 2003
        > If you like the study of the mind, Eglaelin, You might try Georg
        > Feuerstein's translation and commentary on "Yoga Sutra" by
        > It is the basis of Raja Yoga. It is very systematic and well
        > Love,
        > Bobby G.

        devi: i have it on order from the library, i've already read about
        four or five commentaries, most from indian scholors, i'm actually
        thinking about offering study groups in my area..
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